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D.U.P.A.
2015-05-13, 11:58 AM
Does Magic stone count as a weapon attack, so it can be used for example in battlemaster's maneuvers? And what about Shilelagh?

Naanomi
2015-05-13, 12:06 PM
Formally magic stone is a spell attack (so no sharpshooter, no maneuvers, etc) but shillelagh modifies a weapon attack so it is all good for any weapon based stuff

DivisibleByZero
2015-05-13, 12:06 PM
Technically a spell attack and a weapon attack are two different things. I'm AFB right now, but if the maneuvers require a weapon attack then by the RAW they would not be allowed via anything which grants a spell attack (even if that spell attack was made with a weapon, such as the case with magic stone).
With that said, I think most DMs would allow it. I know I would at least consider it.

edit- and with that said.... I think most maneuvers with ranged weapons are cheesy to begin with, so I might not in the case of magic stone.

SharkForce
2015-05-13, 12:21 PM
Technically a spell attack and a weapon attack are two different things. I'm AFB right now, but if the maneuvers require a weapon attack then by the RAW they would not be allowed via anything which grants a spell attack (even if that spell attack was made with a weapon, such as the case with magic stone).
With that said, I think most DMs would allow it. I know I would at least consider it.

edit- and with that said.... I think most maneuvers with ranged weapons are cheesy to begin with, so I might not in the case of magic stone.

the odds of it being better than the exact same maneuver with a bow or javelin (which the battlemaster is going to be proficient with) are extremely small. can't see much point in denying them.

DivisibleByZero
2015-05-13, 12:28 PM
the odds of it being better than the exact same maneuver with a bow or javelin (which the battlemaster is going to be proficient with) are extremely small. can't see much point in denying them.

Didn't say "would not," said "might not."
I would at least consider it, as I said. But since I already find most of the maneuvers cheesy when used with ranged weapons to begin with, I would probably evaluate each on a case by case basis for this particular circumstance, with the final decision dependent upon the overall impact it/they would have on my game. I might even go so far as to allow it with some maneuvers but not with others.
But really, this is largely an irrelevant discussion, as the people I play with don't try to eke every last ounce of optimization and/or cheese possible out of the game, so it would almost certainly not ever come up at our table.

D.U.P.A.
2015-05-13, 12:56 PM
But the bludgeoning damage of Magic stone is considered magic or nonmagic, in case of nomagical damage resistance?

Other than that, is any benefit of using it on a sling than just throwing it?

DivisibleByZero
2015-05-13, 12:57 PM
But the bludgeoning damage of Magic stone is considered magic or nonmagic, in case of nomagical damage resistance?

It's a spell attack, so it bypasses the same resistance that a magic weapon or spell would.

edit:
The benefit is that it uses your casting stat rather than your Dex.

Magic Myrmidon
2015-05-13, 01:10 PM
Didn't say "would not," said "might not."
I would at least consider it, as I said. But since I already find most of the maneuvers cheesy when used with ranged weapons to begin with, I would probably evaluate each on a case by case basis for this particular circumstance, with the final decision dependent upon the overall impact it/they would have on my game. I might even go so far as to allow it with some maneuvers but not with others.
But really, this is largely an irrelevant discussion, as the people I play with don't try to eke every last ounce of optimization and/or cheese possible out of the game, so it would almost certainly not ever come up at our table.

I don't really see how using maneuvers with a ranged weapon is optimization. It's not any more powerful. It really just seems to enable the "trick shot archer" archetype. But hey, I guess if your players agree, then... well, it works for you.

Naanomi
2015-05-13, 01:36 PM
Plus you can give it other people... Like your familiar, or a small platoon of halfling slinging peasants; for whom using your attack bonus would be an overwhelming advantage compared to their peers

SharkForce
2015-05-13, 01:50 PM
they use your attribute bonus, not your attack bonus (that is, they use their own proficiency bonus).

it's nice, probably worth between +1 to +3 for a typical low-level mook (assuming regular attack attribute of ~14-18 at most), but not amazing.

D.U.P.A.
2015-05-13, 02:21 PM
Because the sling has the range 30/120, while just throwing it has pure 60, which is better in the most of the cases. Okay if you want the very long range, but disadvantage may be usually not worth.