OOTS #985 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Domino Quartz]

It's awesome that Durkon knows a thwarted villain when he sees one. :smallbiggrin: :smallamused:

[Ted The Bug]

Nice to see a new comic the second I check the site!

Wonder if that'll just be a throwaway line, or if that gnome is gonna get curious...

[Unscrewed]

Hm. I wonder if Vampire Durkon is looking to kill the high priests of the others of the pantheon.

[Keltest]

Dang, you are on a roll recently. Resolving plot threads AND exposition! What is the HPOH going to do if that elf can resurrect him, I wonder?

[One Step Two]

I love that in his frustration, the accent totally slipped!

Thanks for the update Rich, you made my dreary day more awesome :)

[ArlEammon]

((Big image in spoilers))
Hehe. Even if the vampire Durkon doesn't get knocked down a peg from this, the gnomes just might help take him down anyway.

[Thokk_Smash]

The HPoH's cries of anguish are music to my ears :smallamused:

I do wonder if there'll be any actual repercussions to that slip-up near the end, though...

[Woodsman]

Was it just me, or did the HPoH totally just stop faking Durkon's accent towards the end there?

[Falcar]

The blind gnome caught a coin bag... She must have some good hearing or she is peeking because that would be tough. :smallconfused:

[dancrilis]

Interesting - pretty sure she is not Sabine anyway based on that.

Doubt that the vampire comment will matter thought - clerics in town already know he is a vampire.

[BranMan]

What's that line about neutral elves doing nothing?

This elf needs to do something.

[JeminiZero]

Is it bad that my first thought at the 2nd-3rd last panel was: Man, Roy sure is generous, the murder-hobos that pass for my fellow PCs would NEVER donate gold for information.

[CrispyCriminal]

Heh, Roy certainly learned well from last time he did a sidequest (the empire of blood arena notwithstanding). Plus I think the deva left a good impression on the matter.

[Lheticus]

That last panel DEFINITELY deserves a

:elan:: DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN!

[AbuSpud]

Nice to see a new comic the second I check the site!

Wonder if that'll just be a throwaway line, or if that gnome is gonna get curious...

I don't think she's going to let the vampire thing go. What did Durkula say about gnomes and secrets?

[ArlEammon]

The blind gnome caught a coin bag... She must have some good hearing or she is peeking because that would be tough. :smallconfused:

I've done things like that, and I'm not that perceptive or aware, you just have to know what you're doing and focus on what's going on around you.


I don't think she's going to let the vampire thing go. What did Durkula say about gnomes and secrets?

Exactly. :smallamused:

[Leliel]

Welp, all villains can't be as lucky as the BBEG.

Sometimes heroes thwart them without any clue that's what they're doing.

I love this strip, this is how you make a good lieutenant villain, show they aren't almighty, sometimes luck just doesn't work for them.

[Arrowstorm122]

Interesting - pretty sure she is not Sabine anyway based on that.

Doubt that the vampire comment will matter thought - clerics in town already know he is a vampire.

She might now know why the other shrines didn't tell them about the pilgrimage though, or maybe she knows how vampires work, like the other fella at the previous temple.

I'm kind of wondering if HPoH is going to escape so he can follow the pilgrimage, or maybe he gets busted.

[GAAD]

So apparently these pilgrims warned the temples about the High Priest of Hel. Interesting.
Also, adding "Pulsing Bloodsack" to list of cool insults, right underneath "Frumious Bandersnatch"

[Atomburster]

What are the odds that this elf will be someone they've already met? I give it 4:1 odds.

[AlignmentDebate]

The other non-blind temples saw that Durkon was a vampire though.

[RustyVenture]

Some pilgramage is going on, big enough to entice two (including HPOH) high priests to go, and the HPOH wants to get there first. Hel really is going to stick it to the other gods, especially if more high priests show up to that thing.

Something tells me the Pinnacle mountains are where Kraagors gate is.

[DaOldeWolf]

I wonder why the pilgrim is so much important for the HPoH......

Still, its good to see Durkon on the other side of a discussion with the HPoH.

[Lissou]

I'm not quite sure what is going on, but Durkula being unhappy is good. I have a feeling that it's going to get more complicated, though.

[skim172]

Love the punchline. Unlikely to end up being impactful plotwise - after all, one blind priest might've overheard a word, but plenty of passers-by and several temple-fuls of clerics are already well aware of the vamp in their midst. She'll have a nasty "wait, I helped who!?!" kind of moment later on.

I wonder what this "pilgrimage" is. All the high priests of the gods, on a hush-hush trip with no warning nor fanfare - it seems they're up to something. And Count Jerkon apparently knows what's up - and it's not the priests that are important, it's wherever they're headed to.

What could be so important, I wonder? Kraagor's Gate? What's Hel's design on this whole matter, I wonder?

[Bulldog Psion]

The other non-blind temples saw that Durkon was a vampire though.

Yes, that cat is long, long, long out of the bag. If the gnomes were going to do anything about it, they already would have. The priest of Hodr's realization has no impact beside on herself, IMO.

[Shekinah]

I love that in his frustration, the accent totally slipped!

I noticed that, too. I'm surprised Roy didn't catch on it, given how long he's known Durkon.

[Kantaki]

A pilgrimage usually has a goal, an endpoint. I theorize that at this place is stored whatever Hel and her High priest need for their plan.
Someone does not get what he wants. I wonder if the HpoH behavior made Roy at least a bit suspicious of him. The elfish cleric could hinder the plan even more and make the whole not-really-Durkon near impossible to hide. Roy on the other hand proves his high mental stats. Throwing something at a blind person is not the best way to give it to them (fine he called out and aimed for her hand and a bag of coins makes some noise but still...) and blabbering about Ds little problem might prove problematic.

[Luizeu]

Scumbag Roy, throwing things at blindfolded people tsc tsc tsc

[TRH]

I noticed that, too. I'm surprised Roy didn't catch on it, given how long he's known Durkon.

He clearly doesn't want to see anything but Durkon there, so he'll ignore all signs to the contrary until the HPOH does something blatant.

[Sermil]

Wait, is that a blind archer in the corner of the 5th panel? Where did s/he come from? And why is s/he a blindfolded archer?

[Rakoa]

I accidentally read the title as "Down the Wedding Path". I was expecting Hilgya or something! Which is surprising, since I do not believe she will ever show up again.

[ti'esar]

So all the speculation last time was wrong: the HPoH doesn't want to meet someone in particular, he's looking for a specific location. Interesting. Still not sure what all the secrecy for this piligrimage is about, but while the pieces aren't exactly coming together, there are more and more of them appearing.

Love that the accent slipped - although I agree with TRH, Roy isn't going to notice it because he doesn't really want to.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay I'm definitely liking this. I'm still not sure why he'd be tracking several high-level clerics, unless he wants to get to where they're headed. And given that there's a good chance the other high-level clerics of the Northern Pantheon got a warning about Hel finally getting a powerful cleric of her own...That can't be good.

Come on Roy! You saw and heard his facade slip! Use those mental stats of yours!

[Excise]

Mighty Excise be liking this sub plot.

[Cizak]

Rich, you are on a freakin' roll with this update speed! I'm happy for you that you are able to get work done, I know you've expressed frustration at not getting things done before.

And can I just say, I'm loving the plot right now. It's very mysterious and intriguing, the spotlight on Durkon is amazing and the HPoH character is great! I remember when #948 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html) first went up, and I was thinking to myself: "Oh man, HPoH is showing character already here. He's totally going to be one of those characters who are super quick to anger on the inside, but have to keep a calm facade on the outside." And yeah, I feel like that has totally been shown to be true in all of his following appearances. Take that as a testiment to your superior writing and character building, Giant. I could tell how you were setting up his personality in his third appearance.

This post turned into gushing, but man, I just want you to know: The way you've handled both the comic and forum this last year is beautiful. I've probably never been invested in your work more than I am now. Just mad props, all around. Mad props.

[colanderman]

I think this comic all but proves the theory that Hatless has merely temporarily misplaced her hat.

[RebelRogue]

Wait, is that a blind archer in the corner of the 5th panel? Where did s/he come from? And why is s/he a blindfolded archer?
It's another Hoder mythology shoutout.

[Douglas]

The plot thickens... and HPoH can't use his Domination gaze to stop this acolyte from telling because that requires looking into the victim's eyes - which are blocked by the blindfold.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Www, this is getting quite tense. I am very eager to see what the High Priest of Hel's endgame is here. Also, loved the ending to this one.

[colanderman]

Wait, is that a blind archer in the corner of the 5th panel? Where did s/he come from? And why is s/he a blindfolded archer?

Hoder is both blind and an archer. Makes sense (as much as it can, really).

[ArlEammon]

THe plot still thickens even though this might turn out to be nothing for the gnome. The threat is now double pronged against Darkula.

[ti'esar]

Wait, is that a blind archer in the corner of the 5th panel? Where did s/he come from? And why is s/he a blindfolded archer?

I initially assumed it was a joke - out of all the possible weapons the blindfolded priests could be using, they picked the one that it's stereotypically least advisable to use with a blindfold. But the people interpreting it as another reference to the mythological Hoder are more likely right (assuming it's not both).

[ArlEammon]

I initially assumed it was a joke - out of all the possible weapons the blindfolded priests could be using, they picked the one that it's stereotypically least advisable to use with a blindfold. But the people interpreting it as another reference to the mythological Hoder are more likely right (assuming it's not both).

Also, this is Dungeons and Dragons. . . blind folds might not make much of a difference if you, a priest of Hodur, can fight like Arnold Shwarzeneggar with no eyes.

[t209]

Good Call, Durkula. Good Call.

[kivzirrum]

Hmm. My thoughts while reading most of this comic were along the lines of "YES! I knew you were smart, Roy!" And my thought on seeing the last panel can best be expressed as, ":smallannoyed:".

Yeah. Probably not the best thing to let slip, O Buddy Roy.

The rest of the strip has me intrigued, too. My money was on the clerics being no one we'd ever seen before, not Hilgya or anyone. And yet... this strip confirms the former, while leaving the possibility for the latter open. Interesting.

[GAAD]

Also, this is Dungeons and Dragons. . . blind folds might not make much of a difference if you, a priest of Hodur, can fight like Arnold Shwarzeneggar with no eyes.
Well yeah. She's not going to let an awesome feat like Blind Fight go to waste, right?

[ackmondual]

Wait, is that a blind archer in the corner of the 5th panel? Where did s/he come from? And why is s/he a blindfolded archer?

Indeed. FWIW, I've seen blind archers before do quite well. Well, at least in fantasy realms.

[Thrillhouse]

Hmm...so it looks like HPOH is looking not for a specific CLERIC, but for a PLACE.

By the looks of it, this pilgrimage is on their way to some super secret location in these mountains, and HPOH wants to follow them so he can find the place. (This may be why they don't want to tell anyone that this pilgrimage is even happening). Alternatively, it may be that this pilgrimage is actually very important and that HPOH could further some plot simply by killing the clerics and preventing them from doing...whatever they're doing.

Now, what will be very interesting is if that elf cleric CAN cast Resurrection...HPOH will be in quite the pickle then. Perhaps he'll "change his mind" and say that his immunity to Xykon's energy drain outweighs his lack of healing spells, and that he should remain a vampire until they beat him.

Also, while generally I read this comic much more for the great story than for the (more average) humour, that last panel was pretty damn funny, I must say.

[ORione]

He clearly doesn't want to see anything but Durkon there, so he'll ignore all signs to the contrary until the HPOH does something blatant.

Yeah, he's doing what he can to believe that the vampire is Durkon. He's certainly not actively looking for clues that it isn't (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0961.html), at least.


It's awesome that Durkon knows a thwarted villain when he sees one. :smallbiggrin: :smallamused:

He has spent time around Nale. :smalltongue:


The blind gnome caught a coin bag... She must have some good hearing or she is peeking because that would be tough. :smallconfused:

Maybe it's less her, and more that Roy has good aim.

[Keltest]

Hmm. Is it perhaps possible that the high priests of the various northern gods are having a meeting somewhere, that the HPoH intends to insert himself into?

[Sniffnoy]

Whatever he hopes to locate from the pilgrimage, it's not going to be Kraagor's Gate. That's where the Order is headed anyway, as fast as possible, and -- assuming this one isn't also faked -- Roy knows the location of that already. And it won't be faked, because Serini accurately recorded all the others (even Girard's; Girard just lied to Soon about where it was). And if it were faked, why would Hel know about what the Order of the Scribble did?

Similarly, it's unlikely the temples were warned about the HPoH specifically, rather than just having a general policy of secrecy surrounding the pilgrimage. Otherwise Durkon could probably find out about where they were going by other means, since it would be known from previous pilgrimages.

I like Vampire Durkon's curses. :)

Also, is it just me or have we seen that red-haired cleric from panel 5 before?

[Pendulous]

He clearly doesn't want to see anything but Durkon there, so he'll ignore all signs to the contrary until the HPOH does something blatant.

I think it's the kind of thing that he noticed, but won't say anything until he's figured it out and has a moment to take advantage of the fact that nobody knows that he knows.

[ClaimingLight]

Well, that cinches it. I'm guessing we'll see that one dwarf that Durkon made it with soon.

[erikthered1300]

Belkar is definitely going to have some role in bringing down Durkon

http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg (http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm)

[thosta]

I don't think the High Priests would gather about the new High Priest of Hel. But I would say they would definitely gather to stop a world-ending crisis like the Snarl with all the gates blown up except for the northern one. So looks the Order has new potential allies for that.

But Hel wants to bring down the world to ruin, I got a bad feeling that Durkula is going to turn that pilgrimage into a bloodbath. Roy better catch on soon or things are going to get reeeaally messy. :smalleek:

EDIT: Just looked up the Hoder reference with the blind archer colander mentioned. Awesomely fits the blind archer's flock is tricked into teamkilling by shooting Durkula the pilgrims' way. :smallbiggrin: Bonus point if the Baldr priest is the first one to kick the bucket.

[Darth Paul]

Every time I look lately, there's a new comic up!!

Go, Giant, GO!!!! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Exediron]

I have a feeling the poor elf at the inn might be set for a bad day if she's actually capable of doing something about Durkon's 'condition'... :smalleek:

[foobar1969]

I love that in his frustration, the accent totally slipped!
Thor's Nuts! Yes!

Roy has high Int Wis & Cha, he's adventured with Durkon for years, and would have noticed the accent change. But he just continues speaking blithely, while definitively vetoing the side trip. I think Roy knows, and he's got a poker face on.

[Porthos]

A pilgrimage usually has a goal, an endpoint. I theorize that at this place is stored whatever Hel and her High priest need for their plan.

Exactly this. He wants to follow the pilgrims, not talk to them. The HPoH must have known that these "secret" pilgrims come through this town on their pilgrimage. This was all a ruse to get Roy to follow the high powered clerics. Like a donkey following a carrot.

He just can't say where they're going to Roy, because that's too much.

It pretty much all fits. There's something/one there that the HPoH desperately wants.

[Tom Lehmann]

What I particularly like about this episode -- and, OOTS generally, come to think about it -- is that the villain, the HPoH, isn't having everything go his way.

In so much fiction these days, the villain is seemingly unstoppable early on, being able to move freely, kill trivially, confound the authorities easily, etc. until it is time for the villain to lose, at which point the villain suddenly starts making stupid mistakes and looks completely different than how they looked initially.

I think this is one of the benefits of telling the story from both viewpoints at once. We get to see things not going the villain's way, just as we see the heroes run into obstacles.

[Angelalex242]

...Wonder if the elf cleric is anyone V knows? Or if V who hasn't been seen in a damn long time is already chatting with this elf.

[Domino Quartz]

Belkar is definitely going to have some role in bringing down Bruenor


Who's Bruenor?
By the way, you can put stuff like your "RPG Personality" in your signature.

[Basement Cat]

Thor's Nuts! Yes!

Roy has high Int Wis & Cha, he's adventured with Durkon for years, and would have noticed the accent change. But he just continues speaking blithely, while definitively vetoing the side trip. I think Roy knows, and he's got a poker face on.

That never occurred to me. I'd like to think you're right--the steadily growing tension is making me fidget: When will someone--anyone--besides Belkar show a little common sense (which Belkar--with his low Wisdom--must have rolled a natural 20 to recognize THPoH for what he is) and clue in to THPoH's treachery. :smalleek:

As for THPoH's accent slipping--hopefully all it will take is that happening once around Elan for Elan's genre savvyness to come into play. :smallsmile:

Oh, well. At least it's clear that the helpful hatless gnome isn't Sabine in disguise.

[One Step Two]

Exactly this. He wants to follow the pilgrims, not talk to them. The HPoH must have known that these "secret" pilgrims come through this town on their pilgrimage. This was all a ruse to get Roy to follow the high powered clerics. Like a donkey following a carrot.

He just can't say where they're going to Roy, because that's too much.

It pretty much all fits. There's something/one there that the HPoH desperately wants.

I think it has to do specifically about the High Priest part.

Okay, theory time, spoilered for people who don't care for those sorts of things:


As mentioned above, HPoH knows what he is looking for, and needs transport.
I believe that this is a summit of all the Gods of good, or possibly the Gods of the North.
Hel, never had a principal high-level Cleric to attend before, however she has just gotten one. It could be the typical Villanous "Fools, I cannot be stopped moment!" for Hel, or a more obvious ploy is to turn all those other high priests into Vampires as well, turning her Church of One, into a Church of many high-level Vampires.

I hope Hilgya is there as a representative as Loki, it would make for an awesome reveal.


That said, poor Roy has such a big chance to bust HPoH, but I think this scene with the slipped accent is going to be for the benefit of hindsight alone.

[Necris Omega]

Yes, that cat is long, long, long out of the bag. If the gnomes were going to do anything about it, they already would have. The priest of Hodr's realization has no impact beside on herself, IMO.

Eh, we don't know what the Gnomes are really doing in regards to this - they do know that there's an extremely powerful Vampire and his dupe (sorry Roy, but until you turn off Elan mode, you're going to be referred to as "Dupe" from here on out) on the loose, but this isn't a problem that can be easily Turned away. They're going to need big guns to bring down Durkon, and as those are in short supply, it may will take a dramatically appropriate time to deliver.

[Psyren]

So he wants to meet the other high priests... to what, announce himself and claim some kind of legitimate amnesty? It can't be to kill/vampirize all of them, that many high-level clerics would powder him in short order and resist his gaze pretty easily.


The plot thickens... and HPoH can't use his Domination gaze to stop this acolyte from telling because that requires looking into the victim's eyes - which are blocked by the blindfold.


I don't think she's going to let the vampire thing go. What did Durkula say about gnomes and secrets?

It's not exactly a secret though. Every other temple in the city saw what he was, only the blindfolded clerics didn't, so it's not like "There's a human walking around with a vampire" isn't widely known at this point.

[Emperordaniel]

So...

...between the High Priestess of Hoder, and the High Priest of Hel, which one gets to lay claim to the HPoH abbreviation?

[Anarion]

That gnome really wasn't very smart. "Gee, I wonder why my boss who could obviously help these people didn't give them information. I'd better do it myself instead of asking him about it."

[Spamotron]

That gnome really wasn't very smart. "Gee, I wonder why my boss who could obviously help these people didn't give them information. I'd better do it myself instead of asking him about it."

I wouldn't judge her too harshly being impaled by a Plot Hook causes some serious wis damage.

[SavageWombat]

Do the Northerners have an Althing?

Maybe Durkula wants to be declared High Priest of the North through sheer violence.

[Acacia OnnaStik]

That never occurred to me. I'd like to think you're right--the steadily growing tension is making me fidget: When will someone--anyone--besides Belkar show a little common sense (which Belkar--with his low Wisdom--must have rolled a natural 20 to recognize THPoH for what he is) and clue in to THPoH's treachery. :smalleek:

Belkar didn't roll a natural anything. His Wisdom's got nothing to do with it. Belkar is terrified of Durkula, whose very first action was to suck him nearly dry while he was completely helpless. Just because he's closer to the truth doesn't make him any more objective about this than Roy is.

V's probably showing the most actual common sense here, by reserving judgment.

[Haar]

Interesting - pretty sure she is not Sabine anyway based on that.

Doubt that the vampire comment will matter thought - clerics in town already know he is a vampire.

I think the point is that, while everyone knew better than to tell the vampire where the pilgrims were/were going, the clueless acolyte didn't know any better since she couldn't see who she was talking to.

That's why I think the last panel is going to be of some significance, maybe she's going to confess her mistake to someone of power or try to amend it herself.

[Lord Lemming]

The blind gnome caught a coin bag... She must have some good hearing or she is peeking because that would be tough. :smallconfused:

I think it's more that Roy was aiming for her hand. He may not have Weapon Focus: Bag of Coins, but he DOES have a base attack bonus of somewhere around 15, so he'd only miss about 5% of the time.

[pacovf]

Yes, that cat is long, long, long out of the bag. If the gnomes were going to do anything about it, they already would have. The priest of Hodr's realization has no impact beside on herself, IMO.

I've probably been ninja'd already, but the point seems to be that the other clerics didn't tell Roy/HPoH anything about the pilgrims because they didn't want to tell a vampire about it. And this cleric of Hodr wouldn't have either, only she didn't know she was speaking to a vampire...

EDIT: ninja'd twice, indeed.

[jere7my]

I think the point is that, while everyone knew better than to tell the vampire where the pilgrims were/were going, the clueless acolyte didn't know any better since she couldn't see who she was talking to.

Ohhh! I just figured out what the "I'd wink if he weren't blindfolded" thing was about in the last strip. I thought Durkula was implying that the priest of Hoder was secretly on Hel's side, that he was hiding some kind of dark secret, but no! He was trying to hint that he was a high priest himself, and thus entitled to know about the secret high priest pilgrimage. It wasn't "We're both evil, but we can't let the dumb fighter know"; it was "I'm a high priest myself, so the other high priests wouldn't mind me knowing where they're headed."

[SaintRidley]

Good read, Jere7my. I was thinking along similar lines after seeing this strip.

And seconding the wondering about a possible priestly althing. Some kind of moot is happening, that much is certain.

[Edric O]

Roy... the suddenly-disappearing accent must have tipped you off! Right Roy? ...right? Please tell me you're not still desperately clinging to the comfortable illusion that your friend is still alive. Please...? :smallfrown:

[Kami2awa]

Indeed. FWIW, I've seen blind archers before do quite well. Well, at least in fantasy realms.

Well, there's this guy:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/27/sport/london-2012-archery-im/

[dtilque]

What are the odds that this elf will be someone they've already met? I give it 4:1 odds.

I don't think we've seen any female Elf Clerics yet. The closest we've seen is Lirian who was a Druid, and is definitely not available for this. So if they've previously met this elf, it was off screen.

Anyone else note that the High Priestess of Hoder was not wearing a blindfold? Her eyes are white instead of the usual black, so she's probably actually blind and doesn't need a blindfold.

[factotum]

Hmmm. On the one hand, it would be really cool if the gnome priestess knows what a vampire is and does something about it. On the other, it seems unlikely that the whole vampire-Durkon situation would be resolved so quickly, especially since they haven't yet returned to Dwarven lands.

[Porthos]

Roy... the suddenly-disappearing accent must have tipped you off! Right Roy? ...right? Please tell me you're not still desperately clinging to the comfortable illusion that your friend is still alive. Please...? :smallfrown:

Roy would have had to make a Listen check to notice anything afoot. And we all know how good the team is at that. :smallwink:

===

The more obvious, and yes, non-idiot ball answer is, he simply didn't notice. He was preoccupied on other thoughts.

He might, might, remember it later. But right now there is every reason in the world for it to sail past him. After all, he doesn't get to reread each panel over and over again. It is entirely believable that he simply didn't notice.

Call it an, oh, I dunno, Difficulty Check. He simply rolled low. :smallamused:

Now the good thing here is, he won't keep rolling badly forever. Presumably. The HPoH has enough impulse control issues that it is possible for him to slip up one too many times. The only question really is, how much damage will he do in the mean time.

There is, of course, reason to believe that he will visit some Death and Destruction before all is said and done. But, who knows, Rich might just surprise us yet on that front.

[DaggerPen]

I have absolutely no idea what the HPOH is up to but that last panel had me in stitches. Another great update, Giant!

Also, is that mistletoe on the High Priestess of Hoder's staff? That's cute.

[Mad Humanist]

Did anyone notice that in the flashback the helpful acolyte had a hat. I wonder if those hats confer a wisdom bonus.

[Bomb Bloke]

Yes, that cat is long, long, long out of the bag. If the gnomes were going to do anything about it, they already would have. The priest of Hodr's realization has no impact beside on herself, IMO.

The other gnomes know there's a vampire roaming around. This gnome gnows - um, knows - that the vampire is aware of the pilgrimage. That knowledge, if passed to the higher-ups (eg when the donation is turned in), may tip the game plan from "trying to keep the evil one in the dark" to "trying to stake him".

[Mr_Scruffy_Kilz]

I have absolutely no idea what the HPOH is up to but that last panel had me in stitches. Another great update, Giant!

Also, is that mistletoe on the High Priestess of Hoder's staff? That's cute.

If you hadn't pointed out the mistletoe, I was about to.

Also guessing the horned helmet high Priest is Heimdall's, since we know the High Priest of Thor is a Dwarf.

Now... here is an interesting idea... what if the Priests of Hoder, unlike the other Priests, being more closely connected to Hel and to wooden shafts that are weaknesses of people, actually know how to deal with Vampires.

------------------------

However, height hindered hatless Hoder habituate has hugely halted her hypothetical hidden hellspawn hype. So she seriously stops Sabine suspicions, sadly.

---------------------

Question 1... How does she know the Elf is a Priestess?

Question 2... Since conversion is off the table (even if HPoH could pull it off against so many High Priests and Priestesses, there is the issue of them learning the Protection from Daylight Spell and having three days to turn. 1 new Priest could be converted and hidden... maybe 2... but outside of converting someone at a temple and having them turn the temple from within, converting more then one new cleric at a time is not feasible)

Question 3... Who would the Elf be a Priest/ess of? Norse Elves tended to be equals/rivals of the deities, not worshipers.

Question 4... Shouldn't Durkoff/Durkula be repelled by all the holy symbols being worn?

[Douglas]

I think the point is that, while everyone knew better than to tell the vampire where the pilgrims were/were going, the clueless acolyte didn't know any better since she couldn't see who she was talking to.

That's why I think the last panel is going to be of some significance, maybe she's going to confess her mistake to someone of power or try to amend it herself.
Exactly. A cleric of Durkon's level turning Vampire is a major world event, and the temples may have been deliberately concealing information specifically from him. The acolyte, now that he knows Durkon is a vampire, will likely report the fact that he unintentionally leaked the info to the wrong person. If HPoH could Dominate him, that could prevent anyone from finding out so his enemies would remain unaware. Instead, the blindfold means he can't do that without resorting to methods Roy would notice, so the temples will be alerted that HPoH now knows (or, more precisely, has a source he can point to for Roy).

[Zumbs]

Thor's Nuts! Yes!

Roy has high Int Wis & Cha, he's adventured with Durkon for years, and would have noticed the accent change. But he just continues speaking blithely, while definitively vetoing the side trip. I think Roy knows, and he's got a poker face on.
I was thinking the same. And that the vampire slip was intentional. Maybe he is counting on the clerics to act on that information? Say, warn the high priestess or send a group to back whatever play he has planned when meeting the elven priestess?

[Neoriceisgood]

Thor's Nuts! Yes!

Roy has high Int Wis & Cha, he's adventured with Durkon for years, and would have noticed the accent change. But he just continues speaking blithely, while definitively vetoing the side trip. I think Roy knows, and he's got a poker face on.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, particular cause Durkula is fairly cooperative as long as he thinks his "disguise" works. I can imagine a "twist" at some point that Roy knew/was suspicious for a while at some point in the future.

[Mad Humanist]

I was thinking the same. And that the vampire slip was intentional. Maybe he is counting on the clerics to act on that information? Say, warn the high priestess or send a group to back whatever play he has planned when meeting the elven priestess?

An interesting theory and it would be a great plot twist, However as far as I can judge Roy, I reckon he is being driven by guilt over losing Durkon and so confirmation bias will prevent him from being so clever.

[Grey Pilgrim]

Roy... the suddenly-disappearing accent must have tipped you off! Right Roy? ...right? Please tell me you're not still desperately clinging to the comfortable illusion that your friend is still alive. Please...? :smallfrown:

I'd say this is the problem of having a character with high INT score. Doesn't matter you have it as long as you do not actually use it.

I also thought Durkula would be more careful. Man, he really really wants to get where this pilgrimage is going or else he wouldn't slip so easily.

[Rasputin]

Did anyone notice that in the flashback the helpful acolyte had a hat. I wonder if those hats confer a wisdom bonus.

I noticed. I've been wondering about the hatless status of that gnome acolyte since she showed up, as Burlew frequently inserts clues like this. Now that I've seen the flashback I'm wondering even more. Something is afoot, but I don't have a clue what it is.

[Mad Humanist]

I wonder what a gnome nudist camp would be like. Would the act of not wearing a hat make them all feel sufficiently naked even with clothes on, or would they go round naked but still have hats on?

[Hopeless]

You know that acolyte might have been sent deliberately to discover their intent, after all they probably already know Durkon's a vampire they just don't know his intentions.

Maybe that advice might lead them into a trap similar in nature to the one we've been reading in the meantime?

Maybe next we'll have Belkar, V and his cat having their own adventure during this same period of time?

By the way no dwarves or is Durkon and his former girlfriend the only dwarves wandering around the surface world?

You know given how frequently Durkon needs blood he may have Roy under his control at least enough for when necessary and what we're seeing is Roy making his saves to resist giving in to Durkula's demands?

[factotum]

By the way no dwarves or is Durkon and his former girlfriend the only dwarves wandering around the surface world?


That seems entirely possible, given that the fake mission given to Durkon was to investigate human lands--that wouldn't have been a convincing excuse if there were already loads of dwarfs wandering around outside their territory.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

Of all the clerics Roy meets today, will any have the consideration to Send to him about the true nature of a vampire?

[HandofShadows]

A step in the right direction Roy!

[kivzirrum]

Roy's smart, but his attention is elsewhere and he's driven by guilt over Durkon's death.

I don't think he knows that HPoH isn't really Durkon. I don't think he's going to notice little things like the accent slipping, not yet.

[LuisDantas]

I expect and hope that the acolyte will realize that if a vampire is expected to be involved she can't afford the risk not to confess her indiscretion to the head priest.

The name Pinnacle seems to be an easter egg for the Savage Worlds company. I assume the Giant is a fan or friend of either the system or someone in the company.

Roy better become a bit suspicious after this piercing of Durkula's façade. Besides dropping the accent for a panel (which I expect the acolyte to have noticed as well), his emotional reactions are all wrong for the situation and for Durkon's character.

There was an important lampshade in this strip: the mention of Hoder's High Priestess and the implication that she is trying to keep a low profile, even in Hoder's own shrine (as we learned in #982's first panel).

Hoder is of the same pantheon as Hel, and known for his blindness (which is apparently what this shrine is attempting to emulate) and his visions of the far future. Hel would have a personal interest in his priests, for in legend Hoder was tricked into helping unleash Ragnarok. Apparently it was no coincidence that Roy and Durkon found a shine dedicated specifically to Hoder.

[Kantaki]

Roy's smart, but his attention is elsewhere and he's driven by guilt over Durkon's death.

I don't think he knows that HPoH isn't really Durkon. I don't think he's going to notice little things like the accent slipping, not yet.

I'm not to sure about this. The High Priest has acted in a very undurkony way there and Roy has most likely noticed something. If he noticed that he noticed and if he will accept that he noticed what he noticed that is written on a different page. But I am confident our hero will act before it is to late. After all why would we be given these hints about Hels plan if Darkon wouldn't Keep working on it?

[Gift Jeraff]

The name Pinnacle seems to be an easter egg for the Savage Worlds company. I assume the Giant is a fan or friend of either the system or someone in the company.

I imagine it's mostly a continuation of the redundant geographic names gag: Wooden Forest, Sunken Valley, Barren Desert, etc.

[Ivrytwr]

Very cool.
Durkula drops the accent. Starting to think Roy is not completely oblivious to the evil lurking in the body of Durkon.
The blind acolyte catches the bag?
The significance of vampires? Hmmmm..

Thanks Giant.

[Psyren]

That gnome really wasn't very smart. "Gee, I wonder why my boss who could obviously help these people didn't give them information. I'd better do it myself instead of asking him about it."

The boss is on the hook here too though. "Hey, you know that delegation of high priests from every religion that came through a few days ago? Keep that under your pointy hats." That wouldn't have been a hard department e-mail to send I don't think.

Rule #1 of leadership - never assume all your underlings just magically know what you're thinking - communicate expectations.


I've probably been ninja'd already, but the point seems to be that the other clerics didn't tell Roy/HPoH anything about the pilgrims because they didn't want to tell a vampire about it. And this cleric of Hodr wouldn't have either, only she didn't know she was speaking to a vampire...

Oh, that's actually a good point.


I don't think we've seen any female Elf Clerics yet. The closest we've seen is Lirian who was a Druid, and is definitely not available for this. So if they've previously met this elf, it was off screen.

Anyone else note that the High Priestess of Hoder was not wearing a blindfold? Her eyes are white instead of the usual black, so she's probably actually blind and doesn't need a blindfold.

We did meet an elf cleric... but he/she/they are dead. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)

[LotusWyvern]

Could the gnome acolyte without a hat who caught the bag be Sabine?

[happycrow]

Could the gnome acolyte without a hat who caught the bag be Sabine?

I don't think so -- Sabine would know about the vampirism, whereas she seems surprised.
Also, my short streak of being able to call things has predictably returned to "nope. Also, nope! And, nope!" :D

[Grey Pilgrim]

I wonder what a gnome nudist camp would be like. Would the act of not wearing a hat make them all feel sufficiently naked even with clothes on, or would they go round naked but still have hats on?

Are you putting points into Craft: Disturbing mental image? :smallbiggrin:

[Samalpetey]

So now we've got someone who can't be dominated by Durk and knows about the vampire business. Calling it now, either she tells Roy about him or she lifts her blindfold to see what Roy's on about then gets dominated

[happycrow]

I'm not sure Roy's INT matters here much. Without knowledge of how vampirism works, and with the domination of the minor priest more or less backing up Durkula, there's "hidden clue" which has to be somehow provided before Roy can legitimately chalk this up to anything other than "my newly-evil friend is acting seriously weird and I should keep an eye on that, just in case."

[Jay R]

Maybe it's less her, and more that Roy has good aim.

Just as if he were a high-level fighter.


Hmmm. On the one hand, it would be really cool if the gnome priestess knows what a vampire is and does something about it. On the other, it seems unlikely that the whole vampire-Durkon situation would be resolved so quickly, especially since they haven't yet returned to Dwarven lands.

I really don't expect a quick resolution to a plot line that hasn't gone anywhere yet, and that was plotted out for more than ten years.

Having said that, there is a huge difference between resolving the plot-line and moving it forward.

----------

The new information:
1. All the high clerics are having some sort of secret meeting, or are all suddenly going to the same place.
2. The HPoH knows about it, and Durkon doesn't, so he didn't learn it from Durkon. Ergo, he was told directly by Hel.
3. The HPoH doesn't want to talk to the pilgrims; he wants to follow the pilgrimage. That implies (but does not prove) that they are going somewhere he wants to find.
4. We all failed miserably at figuring out what he wanted.
5. "Pulsing Bloodsacks" would be a great name for a rock band.

[Niminis]

I think HPoH wants to arrive in Pinnacle Moutain before the other High Priest/Priestess because he metioned a fast ship. Anyways, this confirms that Hel isn't going after the Gates, her plans being focused on pilgrimage instead?

[FlawedParadigm]

Belkar didn't roll a natural anything. His Wisdom's got nothing to do with it. Belkar is terrified of Durkula, whose very first action was to suck him nearly dry while he was completely helpless. Just because he's closer to the truth doesn't make him any more objective about this than Roy is.

V's probably showing the most actual common sense here, by reserving judgment.

Half right, in my mind. You're spot on that it has naught to do with Belkar's Wisdom or rolls, but I think it's less because of terror and more because he's currently pulling the exact same scam on the party; pretending to be someone he isn't, only in reverse. He's trying to convince the party he's nicer and more helpful but hasn't gone soft and all laden with development, while Durkula is busy pretending he's same ol' Durkon and hasn't become harder and a burden to the group. Belkar doesn't need to make any rolls to figure out what Durkula's up to the same way Haley knew Xykon's shell game back at Azure City; it's well within their areas of expertise.

[SlyJohnny]

So apparently these pilgrims warned the temples about the High Priest of Hel. Interesting.

I don't think so. I think they're just keeping the pilgrimage (or at least, the presence of the high priests) a secret generally, so the temple priests kept their mouths shut and the acolyte only spoke up because she wasn't important enough to be sworn to secrecy and didn't pick up that the reason her boss "forgot" was because the information is supposed to be hush hush.

All of you who think the gnomes are now aware of the HPOH: don't forget, only *one* minor cleric who had Skill Focus (Knowledge: Religion) and probably rolled a natural 20 on the check actually seems to be aware that vampires are a "a new evil soul sets up shop in your dead body and controls you" kind of deal, and she was hypnotised into being quiet about it. The other clerics may be aware that vampires are undead and therefore bad (depending on their religion's outlook), but they're not necessarily concious of the minutiae about how vampires work.

I am worried about this elven priestress they're going to visit. If she actually can resurrect people, Durkula will probably decide to kill her rather than have his bluff called. It's likely to go poorly for her if she withholds information, too, as Durkula can strongarm her more easily than a whole temple.

[Svinary]

So he wants to meet the other high priests... to what, announce himself and claim some kind of legitimate amnesty? It can't be to kill/vampirize all of them, that many high-level clerics would powder him in short order and resist his gaze pretty easily.

We already know what he is up to: he was chosen by Hel to "bring this world to ruin and drive that bufoon Thor to his knees in the process" (#946). So I don't think he's after those priests as such: maybe he wants to disturb whatever they are doing in order to, I dunno, unleash the Ragnarok?


Hmmm. On the one hand, it would be really cool if the gnome priestess knows what a vampire is and does something about it. On the other, it seems unlikely that the whole vampire-Durkon situation would be resolved so quickly, especially since they haven't yet returned to Dwarven lands.

Yup, Hel's scheme seems to be too grand to be thwarted that easily. It would be really anticlimactic.

[ChillerInstinct]

Was it just me, or did the HPoH totally just stop faking Durkon's accent towards the end there?

Ooh, nice catch. He wavers slightly at first but after the HPoH has his little freak-out in the mindspace he drops it entirely. So now we know that, when he gets flustered, he can't completely maintain his ruse.

Hmm... this could easily be the death of him. If Belkar can tick him off enough to set him off with enough witnesses nearby, especially now that he can't simply be shaken off with a simple Charm... Make him slip loudly enough. Durkon's been raging mad in the company of the party before, so they should know that his accent wouldn't simply drop like that. Combined with the inability to put two and two together about Durkon wanting permission to help (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html) we now have a couple of ideas on how this is going to play out.

I don't think Roy's slip-up was intentional, honestly. It'd be a neat little twist that Roy now knows the truth about Durkon, but I think it was a simple case of saying too much and not thinking about it. Vetoing the sidequest had entirely logical grounds, and I'm almost positive that he's still swimming the river Denial.

The temple now knows about the vampirism, but the real question is, will they get a chance to do something about it before the Order leaves? The Mechane is supposedly going to be ready by morning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0965.html) and directly trying to put down a cleric of Durkon's level is probably out of the question, even with their numbers. If the elf can be pumped for info on the rest of the pilgrimage, enough to convince Roy to go along with this, there's probably very little that they can do. A case of shutting the barn door after the horse's run off, as it were.

[FolcoTook]

Thor's Nuts! Yes!

Roy has high Int Wis & Cha, he's adventured with Durkon for years, and would have noticed the accent change. But he just continues speaking blithely, while definitively vetoing the side trip. I think Roy knows, and he's got a poker face on.
I'm thinking this too.

[Shining Wrath]

Wait ... did he just say "vampire"?

Why yes, he did.

But that's not news to the gnomes - Durkon was outed as a vampire before.

But now we know what HPoH wants ... to go to the Pinnacle Mountains in a very fast ship, and be near *all* the high level clerics in the world. Hel must have big plans - does she really think one vampire, however potent, can take on every high priest in the world? Or does she just want them all killed in some unspecified way?

It looks like Durkon may have to try dominating Roy to meet his objectives.

I hope little curly-headed acolyte winds up safe.

Oh, and why don't the gnomes speak of the pilgrimage? Something important is afoot - something that requires lots of good-aligned clerics, it seems. Perhaps they know of the Snarl and are trying to stop it?


I think this comic all but proves the theory that Hatless has merely temporarily misplaced her hat.

She has a skull cap in the flashback. It seems that among gnomes, or at least the clergy, hat size reflects status.

[Yendor]

The vampire's really slipping up on his act. Durkon would never be that insistent on looking for this group.

I wonder if the head cleric noticed not-Durkon wasn't breathing when pressing him for information, and worked out what was going on.

[Burner28]

This is a good strip.

[JessmanCA]

Here's hoping the vampire subplot gets wrapped up quickly.

This and Haley's internal monologue subplots.. not a fan

[Shining Wrath]

Just as if he were a high-level fighter.



I really don't expect a quick resolution to a plot line that hasn't gone anywhere yet, and that was plotted out for more than ten years.

Having said that, there is a huge difference between resolving the plot-line and moving it forward.

----------

The new information:
1. All the high clerics are having some sort of secret meeting, or are all suddenly going to the same place.
2. The HPoH knows about it, and Durkon doesn't, so he didn't learn it from Durkon. Ergo, he was told directly by Hel.
3. The HPoH doesn't want to talk to the pilgrims; he wants to follow the pilgrimage. That implies (but does not prove) that they are going somewhere he wants to find.
4. We all failed miserably at figuring out what he wanted.
5. "Pulsing Bloodsacks" would be a great name for a rock band.

Quickly - register "High Priest of Hel and the Pulsing Bloodsacks". It's a great name for a folk band.

[FallenFallcrest]

Wait did he say vampire?

ROY IS A VAMPIRE?!

[kivzirrum]

I'm not to sure about this. The High Priest has acted in a very undurkony way there and Roy has most likely noticed something. If he noticed that he noticed and if he will accept that he noticed what he noticed that is written on a different page. But I am confident our hero will act before it is to late. After all why would we be given these hints about Hels plan if Darkon wouldn't Keep working on it?

True enough. I guess what I should say is that, while he may certainly be noticing that something is up, I don't think he's going to follow that all the way to the correct conclusion yet. Partially because of not realizing the extent to which Durkon is outing himself, and partially because of not wanting to notice.

[Shining Wrath]

True enough. I guess what I should say is that, while he may certainly be noticing that something is up, I don't think he's going to follow that all the way to the correct conclusion yet. Partially because of not realizing the extent to which Durkon is outing himself, and partially because of not wanting to notice.

Until he knows it's possible that someone else is looking out through his friend's eyes, he can't realize that's what's happening.

It's possible he's about to learn, though.

[jidasfire]

I really don't understand why so many people are so eager to see the vampire story over so soon. Yes, it is a bit of a sidetrack in the sense of Order vs. Team Evil, but it's pretty clear that the party still isn't ready to face Xykon, let alone him and newly powerful Redcloak. It seems inevitable that there's going to be some major vampire apocalypse brewing, which if nothing else would earn them tons of XP. Not to mention, Durkon, the most underused party member, is finally getting some real development and getting to show what he's made of in a dire situation. Plus, there's potential for Belkar (who distrusts Durkula and is stockpiling magic items to protect against mind-control) to be a major part of the reason they ultimately win.

I don't know. If none of that sounds exciting to you, I guess we just don't want the same things in an adventure story.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

I'm going to spoiler this:


Hypothetically speaking, if all the high priests of the northern pantheon were in one place, and something was to happen at that location that led to the demise of all those high priests, how much would it inconvenience the gods?

Would the next most senior priest just step up immediately (possibly only giving Hel some high level vampire clerics if Durkula can sire any), or would it effectively split the gods off from the mortal world for an indeterminate amount of time, massively reducing their powers through their followers worship not having a specific conduit to reach them?

Plus Hel gets some high level vampire clerics.

We've all assumed Hel was after Kraggor's Gate, what if the gate's got nothing to do with it and she's actually planning a decapitation strike against the rest of the northern pantheon instead, allowing her to rise up and over throw Odin et al?

If they're all cut off from their worshippers (and thus their power), even if she's only got Durkula as her worshipper, she'll still have access to more power than any of the other gods.

[kivzirrum]

Until he knows it's possible that someone else is looking out through his friend's eyes, he can't realize that's what's happening.

It's possible he's about to learn, though.

Yeah, exactly. I don't see how people can expect that Roy already knows. As I said, he could suspect that something is up, like that Durkon's personality is a bit altered, but then he's already acknowledged that possibility with the phrase "Durkon enough for our purposes."



I really don't understand why so many people are so eager to see the vampire story over so soon. Yes, it is a bit of a sidetrack in the sense of Order vs. Team Evil, but it's pretty clear that the party still isn't ready to face Xykon, let alone him and newly powerful Redcloak. It seems inevitable that there's going to be some major vampire apocalypse brewing, which if nothing else would earn them tons of XP. Not to mention, Durkon, the most underused party member, is finally getting some real development and getting to show what he's made of in a dire situation. Plus, there's potential for Belkar (who distrusts Durkula and is stockpiling magic items to protect against mind-control) to be a major part of the reason they ultimately win.

I don't know. If none of that sounds exciting to you, I guess we just don't want the same things in an adventure story.

Agreed. I'm more interested in subplots and developments and character than I am in seeing nothing but plot progression. As far as I'm concerned that does not make for an entertaining story, but to each their own. I will say, I hope those people who aren't liking the Vampire Durkon plot and want to see it resolve change their minds, because I can't see a plot thread that was introduced in the last arc as a cliffhanger wrapping up this early in the subsequent arc.

[Zumbs]

Yeah, exactly. I don't see how people can expect that Roy already knows. As I said, he could suspect that something is up, like that Durkon's personality is a bit altered, but then he's already acknowledged that possibility with the phrase "Durkon enough for our purposes."
There is a difference in knowing that something is up and knowing what is up. Given that vampire Durkon suddenly dropped his dialect while stepping way out of character for Durkon, I suspect that Roy knows that something is up, and suspects that his friend could be controlled by someone else.

[kivzirrum]

There is a difference in knowing that something is up and knowing what is up. Given that vampire Durkon suddenly dropped his dialect while stepping way out of character for Durkon, I suspect that Roy knows that something is up, and suspects that his friend could be controlled by someone else.

I concede that it's possible and we can't say for sure, but I just think that's a big leap to make. I don't see it happening, not yet. Still, we shall see! :smallsmile:

[Kantaki]

I really don't understand why so many people are so eager to see the vampire story over so soon. Yes, it is a bit of a sidetrack in the sense of Order vs. Team Evil, but it's pretty clear that the party still isn't ready to face Xykon, let alone him and newly powerful Redcloak. It seems inevitable that there's going to be some major vampire apocalypse brewing, which if nothing else would earn them tons of XP. Not to mention, Durkon, the most underused party member, is finally getting some real development and getting to show what he's made of in a dire situation. Plus, there's potential for Belkar (who distrusts Durkula and is stockpiling magic items to protect against mind-control) to be a major part of the reason they ultimately win.

I don't know. If none of that sounds exciting to you, I guess we just don't want the same things in an adventure story.

But I do want to see more of the HpoH, I want to learn more about Hels plan and to see it unfold. I just think that when the High priest keeps slipping up the Order might notice. And the Order keeping Darkon in the dark about the fact they know he isn't their friend anymore if only to keep him from acting before Xykon, Redcloak and the Snarl are dealt with could make an great Story as well.

[Doug Lampert]

Roy... the suddenly-disappearing accent must have tipped you off! Right Roy? ...right? Please tell me you're not still desperately clinging to the comfortable illusion that your friend is still alive. Please...? :smallfrown:

Go back to the discussion threads from prior to the big reveal, look at how many people on these boards were desperately clinging to the same comfortable illusion. They were convinced only by Rich SHOWING us that the HPoH is not Durkon, till then they might as well have been sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LaLaLa I can't hear you" to people pointing out that there'd been an alignment change and a definite personality change. Many even argued against the alignment change part! Despite the "no more evil than Belkar" line and the SRD. And Roy has guilt and years of friendship driving him to not notice. I have no trouble with the plausibility of him not noticing till the HPoH puts up 400 foot high burning letters or something. (Another case where much of the boards were ignoring solid evidence like the feast and insisting that Tarquin wasn't so bad.

Or going even further back, there really were people for the longest time insisting that Belkar was CN rather than CE.

Seriously, I have real trouble with how anyone who reads this board can think something about a character being evil or up to something is "impossible to miss". These boards have provided years of experiencing people missing the obvious, and then refusing to believe it when it's pointed out.

[Forikroder]

Go back to the discussion threads from prior to the big reveal, look at how many people on these boards were desperately clinging to the same comfortable illusion. They were convinced only by Rich SHOWING us that the HPoH is not Durkon, till then they might as well have been sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LaLaLa I can't hear you" to people pointing out that there'd been an alignment change and a definite personality change. Many even argued against the alignment change part! Despite the "no more evil than Belkar" line and the SRD. And Roy has guilt and years of friendship driving him to not notice. I have no trouble with the plausibility of him not noticing till the HPoH puts up 400 foot high burning letters or something. (Another case where much of the boards were ignoring solid evidence like the feast and insisting that Tarquin wasn't so bad.

Or going even further back, there really were people for the longest time insisting that Belkar was CN rather than CE.

Seriously, I have real trouble with how anyone who reads this board can think something about a character being evil or up to something is "impossible to miss". These boards have provided years of experiencing people missing the obvious, and then refusing to believe it when it's pointed out.

Roys already suspicious going as far as to eavesdrop on him so he is paying attention just not going to make a move until something actually happens

as long as Dukula is making moves that Roy thinks is to get himself killed and raised hes not going to get too suspicious

as for this pilgrimage i wonder if it was some major importance, like following the pilgrimage alone gives alot of power to the god they serve and he plans to redirect some of it to Hel

[YossarianLives]

I love OotS so much. It's the best webcomic. I'm just lost for words at how goddamn great it is.

[Keltest]

Id just like to point out for a moment that Roy catching on to the Vampire and the Vampire being destroyed are not necessarily going to happen within 5 minutes of each other. There is very much a possibility that Roy and the Order will be forced to cooperate with the High Priest of Hel because he is holding Durkon's body and soul hostage.

[littlebum2002]

Is it just me or do the clerics look like they're getting chewed out?

[kivzirrum]

Id just like to point out for a moment that Roy catching on to the Vampire and the Vampire being destroyed are not necessarily going to happen within 5 minutes of each other. There is very much a possibility that Roy and the Order will be forced to cooperate with the High Priest of Hel because he is holding Durkon's body and soul hostage.

Good point. Not a possibility that occurred to me. It could certainly be interesting. In such a case as that, I wonder if the others would go along with it, or just destroy him?

[Psyren]

Good point. Not a possibility that occurred to me. It could certainly be interesting. In such a case as that, I wonder if the others would go along with it, or just destroy him?

Unless there is a 13+ cleric standing right there, Roy is unlikely to want to dust Durkon except as a last resort.

[Forikroder]

Id just like to point out for a moment that Roy catching on to the Vampire and the Vampire being destroyed are not necessarily going to happen within 5 minutes of each other. There is very much a possibility that Roy and the Order will be forced to cooperate with the High Priest of Hel because he is holding Durkon's body and soul hostage.

how so? swing greatsword, chop of head, keep for reanimation

he gets no benefit from Durula being in control of the body after he learns the truth the odds of him running are too high

[dancrilis]

I'm going to spoiler this:


Hypothetically speaking, if all the high priests of the northern pantheon were in one place, and something was to happen at that location that led to the demise of all those high priests, how much would it inconvenience the gods?

Would the next most senior priest just step up immediately (possibly only giving Hel some high level vampire clerics if Durkula can sire any), or would it effectively split the gods off from the mortal world for an indeterminate amount of time, massively reducing their powers through their followers worship not having a specific conduit to reach them?

Plus Hel gets some high level vampire clerics.

We've all assumed Hel was after Kraggor's Gate, what if the gate's got nothing to do with it and she's actually planning a decapitation strike against the rest of the northern pantheon instead, allowing her to rise up and over throw Odin et al?

If they're all cut off from their worshippers (and thus their power), even if she's only got Durkula as her worshipper, she'll still have access to more power than any of the other gods.


The Gods existed before worshippers and while worshippers seem to help with becoming a god I haven't seen anything pointing to them making a god more powerful after gaining full God status - they did make the world without them, and the Dark One does not fear not being a god if the world gets destroyed.



Or going even further back, there really were people for the longest time insisting that Belkar was CN rather than CE.

And that is ignoring the more recent discussion of him being Chaotic Evil - but having recently changed to Chaotic Neutral/Evil.


Is it just me or do the clerics look like they're getting chewed out?
Looked to me like they were getting bad news - but as the acolyte was in the room and didn't seem to know what it was.


how so? swing greatsword, chop of head, keep for reanimation
he gets no benefit from Durula being in control of the body after he learns the truth the odds of him running are too high
He is a vampire - keeping him from running is damn near impossible, and winning a fight with him in a manner that prevents him from running is difficult, and dusting him risks not being able to get the dust together for Resurrection. Even if Roy knows what is going on (which I believe some people have claimed) pretending to go along with it is the safest option.

[littlebum2002]

how so? swing greatsword, chop of head, keep for reanimation

he gets no benefit from Durula being in control of the body after he learns the truth the odds of him running are too high

So "actually having a cleric in your party" isn't a benefit?




Looked to me like they were getting bad news - but as the acolyte was in the room and didn't seem to know what it was.


That makes more sense.

[Forikroder]

He is a vampire - keeping him from running is damn near impossible, and winning a fight with him in a manner that prevents him from running is difficult, and dusting him risks not being able to get the dust together for Resurrection. Even if Roy knows what is going on (which I believe some people have claimed) pretending to go along with it is the safest option.

only long enough to kill him in a way that ensures he wont escape, holding dust is easier then holding a vampire who wants to escape he has no idea when durkon will make like a tree and leave


So "actually having a cleric in your party" isn't a benefit?

a cleric that has no intention of helping you with your goal and has his own evil agenda in mind that could quite possibly make him leave the party at a moments notice?

no theres no benefit in that

[Snails]

I think it has to do specifically about the High Priest part.

Okay, theory time, spoilered for people who don't care for those sorts of things:


As mentioned above, HPoH knows what he is looking for, and needs transport.
I believe that this is a summit of all the Gods of good, or possibly the Gods of the North.
Hel, never had a principal high-level Cleric to attend before, however she has just gotten one. It could be the typical Villanous "Fools, I cannot be stopped moment!" for Hel, or a more obvious ploy is to turn all those other high priests into Vampires as well, turning her Church of One, into a Church of many high-level Vampires.

I hope Hilgya is there as a representative as Loki, it would make for an awesome reveal.


Hel's gambit cannot possibly be that direct, without massive reinforcements coming from somewhere. The reason Malack so easily overcame Durkon is because Malack had a bit of luck neutralizing Belkar so that Durkon was effectively alone. 3 or 4 10th level clerics or a pair of 11th level clerics would easily take the HPOH apart. And I would note that the HPoH never got around to getting that special casket Malack was so eager to get for him.

I do like the Cleric Summit idea. I could imagine something like "The council has rules that the chair will be rotated. Since this is the first time there has been a qualified HPoH in the last 493 years, it is automatically my turn. Those are the rules. Look it up."

[Tiltowait]

Hypothetically speaking, if all the high priests of the northern pantheon were in one place, and something was to happen at that location that led to the demise of all those high priests, how much would it inconvenience the gods?

Would the next most senior priest just step up immediately
Yes, that's what happened when the High Priest of Thor died:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html
It doesn't seem like there's any 'cosmic" impact when a god's high priest dies, but as we've seen from Azure City, losing your highest-level spellcasters and most respected leadership is bad enough.

[Breccia]

Okay, so, there's a bunch of followers of a bunch of faiths following a pilgrimage of some kind. They're doing it quietly, it doesn't appear to be open to the general public, it doesn't appear to be about becoming a high priest (a high priest is already going), and there are too many people going at once for it to be a coincidence.

Could this be about needing an invitation to get in someplace?

[Gaming-Poet]

It's perfectly in character for Roy not to notice yet what's going on with Durkon.

Roy is (or has become) a heroic character with excellent tactical skills in a fight, but despite his declared high intelligence and wisdom stats, he has never been very perceptive (or rather, he's let his impatient frustrations and pragmatic focus obscure his perceptions), although that has been slowly changing as part of his long-term character development arc.

For four examples off the top of my head: It took Roy a while to recognize Elan's strengths and Celine's strengths (remember how happy he was to let Elan remain kidnapped?); it took him a while to realize what a terrible person Miko happened to be (even when everyone else could tell and Elan outright confronted him in his Elan sort of way); he was actually surprised by Durkon's compliance with Miko; he immediately fell for Nale's impersonation of Elan. Though he's learning, he still has a terrible Sense Motive and Spot check.

And remember how Belkar chewed Roy out for giving up once Durkon was dead? This is not the first time that Belkar was more perceptive than Roy.

Perhaps as part of character development, Roy will figure it out without blatant clues, but it's more likely that someone else will figure it out first and tell him. (He may even realize how often Belkar has been correct in the past.)

At least this is traditional for heroes. How often did Kirk/Harry/Superman need Spock/Hermione/Batman or McCoy/Luna/Wonder Woman to point out to our hero what he failed to perceive at first?

[Shining Wrath]

Okay, so, there's a bunch of followers of a bunch of faiths following a pilgrimage of some kind. They're doing it quietly, it doesn't appear to be open to the general public, it doesn't appear to be about becoming a high priest (a high priest is already going), and there are too many people going at once for it to be a coincidence.

Could this be about needing an invitation to get in someplace?

He's not looking to be invited, he's looking to follow in a "very fast ship" and crash some sort of party. His need seems urgent, and he may attempt to dominate Roy ... or Bandana.

[Jasdoif]

a cleric that has no intention of helping you with your goal and has his own evil agenda in mind that could quite possibly make him leave the party at a moments notice?I'd like to know how you're coming to those conclusions.


It seems to me that if the world is destroyed and remade because of the threat of the Snarl, Hel will have to start whatever plans she has over from scratch...assuming they still apply on the new world in the first place. And if Xykon or Redcloak control the Snarl, she'll be in the same position to be threatened as Thor. And if the Dark One controls the Snarl, he'll demand concessions for the goblinoids, making other 1st-level-fodder more targeted...such as Hel's undead.

Keeping Team Evil from acting on the last Gate appears to be in Hel's interests as much as it is in the OotS' interests, even if that's only so Hel can do something with the Gate herself afterwards.

[dancrilis]

I do like the Cleric Summit idea. I could imagine something like "The council has rules that the chair will be rotated. Since this is the first time there has been a qualified HPoH in the last 493 years, it is automatically my turn. Those are the rules. Look it up."

Were this the case Durkon could likely say 'I know lets go to the cleric summit', even if it is super secret knowledge that only high priests have there is no way Roy or others would know that he shouldn't have the knowledge.

[Fish]

All this speculation about a mass migration of High Priests and High Priestesses is nice.

But ... where is Redcloak? Surely he counts as the High Priest of the Dark One.

[dancrilis]

If it is High Priests meeting - it is likely just the High Priests of the Northern Pantheon, but we also don't know that any high priest other then Hoder's was present (who was not blindfolded and had shiny eyes for whatever reason - possessed? maybe).

Actually this comic raises an interesting question - what would Roy do if Durkon wanted to split from the party to investigate, I think the most likely choices are 'let him go and hope to meet up later' or 'join him on the quest' and this comic implies that he will not be abandoning the quest for the second one.

[Kantaki]

All this speculation about a mass migration of High Priests and High Priestesses is nice.

But ... where is Redcloak? Surely he counts as the High Priest of the Dark One.

Its a pilgrimage of the High Priests of the northern Pantheon. The Dark One is not part of it

[Runeclaw]

Its a pilgrimage of the High Priests of the northern Pantheon. The Dark One is not part of it

Again, though, the comic doesn't suggest that the pilgrimage is for High Priests. It just says "there were other clerics . . . four or five different groups . . . even Holder's high priestess"

No mention of other High Priests let alone a convocation of them.

[diplomancer]

I don't know if this theory has been considered yet... but maybe the priests are getting together because the Gods are very concerned that there is only one door between them and a god-killing abomination, and they are getting their agents on it.

[Alcibiades]

Next time I want to insult someone I'm going to call them a "Pulsing Bloodsack". I like the sound of it.

[Emperordaniel]

If it is High Priests meeting - it is likely just the High Priests of the Northern Pantheon, but we also don't know that any high priest other then Hoder's was present (who was not blindfolded and had shiny eyes for whatever reason - possessed? maybe).

As I recall, the "white, un-outlined eyes" effect has previously been used to depict blind characters. Seems fitting to me that a blind god would have a blind high priestess.

[Killer Angel]

The last panel is gorgeous! :smallbiggrin:

and... good work Roy, avoiding the bait. :smallwink:

[Kantaki]

Again, though, the comic doesn't suggest that the pilgrimage is for High Priests. It just says "there were other clerics . . . four or five different groups . . . even Holder's high priestess"

No mention of other High Priests let alone a convocation of them.

:smallamused: Fine, I will rephrase it. It is a pilgrimage of clerics of the northern pantheon (or at least thats implied). The Dark One is not part of this. There, better? :smallamused: The reason I assumed it was a conclave of High Priests is that there are two potentially cataclysmic events in the world. The seal of the Snarl is almost broken, it possibly has already reached through it. And for the first time in who knows how long Hel has an High Priest to further her agency. Each alone is reason to be a wee bit concerned. Both at once call for a meeting of the highest ranking members of the Clergy. At least for the northerners. All others only have the first problem.

[Sidurien]

Okay I just want to say that its obvious the pilgrimage is heading to where Durkon was born, thats what all the foreshadowing about his home life is. The Oracle said that he would be "dead" the next time he went home, which now as a Vampire he is technically dead. And the HPOH intentions is to bring death to the dwarves. This was Prophesied by the Dwarfs themselves when they Sent Durkon away to not return. Also HPOH wants to goto the Mountains and all of Durkons flash backs have been to mountains. So this is what I think is going to happen, and im suprised no one else has thought of this. (i only read 3 pages in)

[Lathund]

Oh. Yes. The plot, it thickens :smallamused:

One thing I wonder about though: Hatless mentions that the visit of Hoder's High Priest was not at all festive. Why is this? My own guess would be that she knows, and possibly the rest of the clergy knows, that Something Bad will happen on this pilgrimage. And if any church receives a prophecy, it would probably be Hoder's.

[lio45]

Next time I want to insult someone I'm going to call them a "Pulsing Bloodsack". I like the sound of it.

It's lame to use it as an insult if you're also a bloodsack yourself, though. Which I have no doubt you are.

(If you're an automated bot like the ones we sometimes see on the forums trying to post mostly spam advertising, then fine, go ahead and call me meatbag, it works ;))

[Mad Humanist]

Just supposing the Elven cleric in Cog Street is super-powerful and attacks Durkon on sight, what should Roy do? The scenario seems pretty plausible to me.

[Snails]

Were this the case Durkon could likely say 'I know lets go to the cleric summit', even if it is super secret knowledge that only high priests have there is no way Roy or others would know that he shouldn't have the knowledge.

The HPoH might have the right to not be denied entry to such a summit, by the simple fact of Hel being an acknowledged member of an appropriate pantheon, but it does not mean than any High Priest is obliged to tell the HPoH where or when it is. The HPoH is a unique event -- the rules that apply may have many weird wrinkles because such have never mattered until now.

[Snails]

Just supposing the Elven cleric in Cog Street is super-powerful and attacks Durkon on sight, what should Roy do? The scenario seems pretty plausible to me.

Any cleric powerful enough to be a threat HPoH and Roy could not make a fighting retreat from is one who could get Durkon back.

[dancrilis]

As I recall, the "white, un-outlined eyes" effect has previously been used to depict blind characters. Seems fitting to me that a blind god would have a blind high priestess.

I think that was only when casting spells - we didn't see the eyes otherwise (I believe) - for Sangwaan anyway.
Durkon also has white eyes when using true seeing for example.

It is possible she is not human - Lizardmen and Goblins have various eye colours, and some humans have odd eyes (such as Tsukiko).

Just supposing the Elven cleric in Cog Street is super-powerful and attacks Durkon on sight, what should Roy do? The scenario seems pretty plausible to me.
The same as he should do if a randomer attacks Belkar, Elan, Haley or Vaarsuvius. Namely defend his teammate while trying to figure out what is going on.

[zimmerwald1915]

Durkon also has white eyes when using true seeing for example.
That's because his dweomer is white. Also, his eyes stay outlined in black when using true seeing.

Zz'dtri, on the other hand, had white, un-outlined eyes, and was never depicted as blind.

On the other other hand, the gladiator warden's bad eye was white and un-outlined.

The art is inconsistent. Pick the most likely explanation.

[Mad Humanist]

The same as he should do if a randomer attacks Belkar, Elan, Haley or Vaarsuvius. Namely defend his teammate while trying to figure out what is going on.

I reckon Roy should stab Durkon in the back with his Greatsword, but will actually defend Durkon whilst trying to stop the fighting.

[dancrilis]

That's because his dweomer is white. Also, his eyes stay outlined in black when using true seeing.

Zz'dtri, on the other hand, had white, un-outlined eyes, and was never depicted as blind.

On the other other hand, the gladiator warden's bad eye was white and un-outlined.

The art is inconsistent. Pick the most likely explanation.

And I will admit that the most likely explanation is unlikely to be the nefarious explanation.


I reckon Roy should stab Durkon in the back with his Greatsword, but will actually defend Durkon whilst trying to stop the fighting.
Why?

Roy knows nothing about this potential cleric - they could be a Cleric of Loki that knows Durkon from way back and wants to destroy a powerful follower of Thor.

Trusting anyone who attacks your friends on sight is somewhat illogical.

[Jay R]

I don't know if this theory has been considered yet... but maybe the priests are getting together because the Gods are very concerned that there is only one door between them and a god-killing abomination, and they are getting their agents on it.

I don't really believe this, but I mention the theory for completeness. They are meeting to discuss the fact that with the gates gone, Zeus and the Eastern Gods have returned.

[Psyren]

The last panel is gorgeous! :smallbiggrin:

and... good work Roy, avoiding the bait. :smallwink:

I wouldn't congratulate Roy yet - whatever happens with this elf cleric, I doubt it will end with Durkon's head stuffed with tasty wafers, not before we even hear the plan. So some more obliviousness from Roy may be forthcoming.


Just supposing the Elven cleric in Cog Street is super-powerful and attacks Durkon on sight, what should Roy do? The scenario seems pretty plausible to me.

Roy would go along with the lie he's been fed. "My friend wants to be made better." What happens after that depends on our Elf Cleric's character.

[Acacia OnnaStik]

Half right, in my mind. You're spot on that it has naught to do with Belkar's Wisdom or rolls, but I think it's less because of terror and more because he's currently pulling the exact same scam on the party; pretending to be someone he isn't, only in reverse. He's trying to convince the party he's nicer and more helpful but hasn't gone soft and all laden with development, while Durkula is busy pretending he's same ol' Durkon and hasn't become harder and a burden to the group. Belkar doesn't need to make any rolls to figure out what Durkula's up to the same way Haley knew Xykon's shell game back at Azure City; it's well within their areas of expertise.

It's probably both. He did have a pretty solid argument based on his own experience when he later confronted Durkula on the airship, but that was after he'd had time to think- his immediate reaction was pure OH GODS KILL IT NOW.

Back to the strip itself, I am loving this demonstration that just because Roy's not actively suspicious of him doesn't mean Durkula can have it all his own way. I don't buy that Roy's figured it out- as emotionally invested as he is in the idea of Durkon still being Durkon, I don't think he'll be able to hide it when he does realize- but Durkula's going to have to think fast to keep that from happening.

[Gusion]

New comic is up.

So, you know, it occurred to me... why didn't the clerics in 968 immediately warn every other temple in town that a vampire was loose?

I guess there could be a joke here that they made a Macebook entry about it but the Hoder's clerics couldn't see it.

But seriously, you'd think that kinda thing would rankled them enough to alert everyone else.

[veti]

So, the HPoH says: "No! I don't want to talk to the actual pilgrims, I just want to follow the pilgrimage!"

"Pilgrimage" suggests something that happens regularly. This particular one seems to involve, for some reason, the highest level clerics in the northern lands. And what's really mystifying is that the whole thing is apparently hush-hush.

And why did HPoH put so much effort into finding these dudes, if he doesn't want to meet them?

Any wild speculation?

[137beth]

...huh. Maybe the acolyte actually does know what HPoH wants, and only gave him the location since he didn't realize it was a vampire? But then why didn't the other blind-folded clerics say anything?

[Kantaki]

So, you know, it occurred to me... why didn't the clerics in 968 immediately warn every other temple in town that a vampire was loose?

I guess there could be a joke here that they made a Macebook entry about it but the Hoder's clerics couldn't see it.

But seriously, you'd think that kinda thing would rankled them enough to alert everyone else.

Even if the clerics of Hoder had recieved the warning, how should they have known R&D where the once they were warned about? They had no way of noticing what Darkon is until Roy blabbered.

@veti: The pilgrimage has most likely an endpoint and usually those are places that are, or hold, something that is of religious importance. The HpoH is most likely after what ever awaits the pilgrims at their destination.

[Elenna]

An island of gnomes may not be able to keep a secret, but neither can a single :roy:. :smallwink:
Also, yay thwarted villains.:smallbiggrin:

I'll read through the thread properly when I have more time.

[BrotherMirtillo]

What I find most intriguing is not-Durkon's protest that he doesn't want to talk to the high priests; he just wants to follow them very efficiently.

I'm guessing that, yes, he'd be happy to convert some high-level folks to vampirism, but that would require some proximity that doesn't seem to be desirable to him. I see at least a couple of other options:

a) He wants to do something long-range to them. I don't think a Maximized Flame Strike would be effective (or even possible for Durkon), but some kind of ranged sabotage, maybe.
b) This:


A pilgrimage usually has a goal, an endpoint. I theorize that at this place is stored whatever Hel and her High priest need for their plan.Exactly this. He wants to follow the pilgrims, not talk to them. The HPoH must have known that these "secret" pilgrims come through this town on their pilgrimage. This was all a ruse to get Roy to follow the high powered clerics. Like a donkey following a carrot.

He just can't say where they're going to Roy, because that's too much.

It pretty much all fits. There's something/one there that the HPoH desperately wants.
Here's my guess for where the pilgrimage was going:
The Northern Gods still feel bad about the rise of the Dark One. Gods gain power through belief, so they have crafted a set of artifacts (possibly altar-shaped -- something non-portable) with the powers to suppress mortal belief in certain other mortals. It's essentially an evangelical blacklist. If any Northern mortal would gain faith in someone the gods loathe, their feelings become inexplicably disrupted. Thus, no unsavory character ever gains widespread worshipping traction.

Every X years, the high priests of the Northern Gods must pray at these altars so that the suppression field can continue to suffuse the world. Hel knows about this, but without any high priest, she has never had a vote in the blacklist. She has begun to suspect that the gods are alienating her, but her lack of power prevents her from making open accusations.

Now she has a priest -- a powerful one. She is determined to get a representative seat and craft her own altar.

And lo, the days "wash your hands" public service announcers will draw to an end.
Bwa ha ha.

Though I also agree that Snails had a sweet (albeit spoiler-worthy) idea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19253940&postcount=142).


Is it just me or do the clerics look like they're getting chewed out?
I don't see it. They look solemn, yes, but that could just be overwhelming reverence and humility. There might even be some disappointment at not being able to "have a feast or a celebration or anything."

[Gusion]

Even if the clerics of Hoder had recieved the warning, how should they have known R&D where the once they were warned about? They had no way of noticing what Darkon is until Roy blabbered.

I'd expect a warning along lines of, "There is a big fighter going around with a vampire asking about trying to resurrect him. We tried to turn the vampire but couldn't do anything. They didn't attack us but he won't destroy the vampire."

When Roy started asking about trying to resurrect a "friend" they could have put two and two together.


He's not looking to be invited, he's looking to follow in a "very fast ship" and crash some sort of party. His need seems urgent, and he may attempt to dominate Roy ... or Bandana.

Trying to dominate Roy might not be the smartest of moves. He does have a +7 to his will save. Unknown what the DC would be, since we don't know Durkula's CHA, but it is believed to be under 14 - so Roy'd wouldn't need to roll amazingly well.

[Jasdoif]

So, you know, it occurred to me... why didn't the clerics in 968 immediately warn every other temple in town that a vampire was loose?

I guess there could be a joke here that they made a Macebook entry about it but the Hoder's clerics couldn't see it.

But seriously, you'd think that kinda thing would rankled them enough to alert everyone else.I'm guessing news of an actively murderous golem running around took priority on the usual methods of communication.

On the other hand, maybe the Gnomeland Security force was deployed for a vampire, which is why the tank had a lightning weapon equipped when it happened to spot Crystal.

[dancrilis]

An island of gnomes may not be able to keep a secret, but neither can a single :roy:. :smallwink:
Well Roy is not trying to keep it a secret anymore - he didn't want the grief at the temple is might bring, but he didn't get it and so he is not concerned with people knowing again.




... since we don't know Durkula's CHA, but it is believed to be under 14 ...

Isn't it as least 14? He could turn 3 times a day as Durkon and he claimed to have a low modifier rather then a negative.
But I suppose it is irrelevant until he gets to having a high one which he would need for certainty.

[BenjCano]

Hm. I wonder if Vampire Durkon is looking to kill the high priests of the others of the pantheon.

Kill? No. Convert to vampirism en masse? I think that's the ticket.

[BenjCano]

The other non-blind temples saw that Durkon was a vampire though.

Or thought he had some sort of albinism. Given that he was walking around in the daylight, they might not have jumped to the vampire conclusion.

[ti'esar]

Zz'dtri, on the other hand, had white, un-outlined eyes, and was never depicted as blind.

All drow eyes have been drawn that way. It's probably just for contrast with their skin.

[Keltest]

Or thought he had some sort of albinism. Given that he was walking around in the daylight, they might not have jumped to the vampire conclusion.

Durkon has fangs and non-white hair. I am unfamiliar with any form of albinism that causes that.

[dancrilis]

Durkon has fangs and non-white hair. I am unfamiliar with any form of albinism that causes that.

For the non-white hair he might be affected differently because he is a dwarf - or he might just not have the OCA1a strain*.

For fangs - all that is required is for there to be a race of dwarves that gains access to a bite attack, so some book the Gnomes haven't read - where the alternative is that a Vampire is walking around in the daylight wanting to get himself raised and is going to the temples to do so.

*Yes I googled it (http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/albinism-faqs/).

[Xihirli]

Sunlight? Looks pretty cloudy there.

[Psyren]

Or thought he had some sort of albinism. Given that he was walking around in the daylight, they might not have jumped to the vampire conclusion.

The first temple we see them stop at try to turn him, and want to lop off his head and fill it with "tasty wafers." So at least one knows for sure that he is the vampire in question, and likely they all do except Hoder's folks.


Kill? No. Convert to vampirism en masse? I think that's the ticket.

Doing that to even one high-level cleric is dicey though, and Durkon's loss was almost entirely due to having blown through his powerful spells earlier against Tarquin, while Malack was still fresh. Attempting to convert the other clerics seems like a pretty risky and even foolish plan to me, especially since Roy wouldn't be likely to stand by and let Durkula drink away.

[dancrilis]

Doing that to even one high-level cleric is dicey though, and Durkon's loss was almost entirely due to having blown through his powerful spells earlier against Tarquin, while Malack was still fresh. Attempting to convert the other clerics seems like a pretty risky and even foolish plan to me, especially since Roy wouldn't be likely to stand by and let Durkula drink away.

Depends on what is a high level cleric - Redcloak certainly, High Priest of the Twelve Gods - highest level spell was level 6, so level 11 at at a guess.

Durkon might be able to happily deal with a few clerics at that level - especially with surprise and preparation that they lack.

But yea I have doubts that it is a meeting of high priests at all.

[Jay R]

My guess is that when the big revelation about Durkon occurs, Roy will be ready for it, and will show us that he's known for awhile, but we'll never know exactly when he changed his mind.

[Frankly, I suspect that even Roy won't know exactly when he was sure, and the Giant might not even know.]

[Emperordaniel]

All drow eyes have been drawn that way. It's probably just for contrast with their skin.

Don't drow also have some sort of daylight sensitivity that impairs their vision during the daytime?

[Lombard]

Heheh HPoH is gonna be all like Alex Jones peeping on the Bohemian Grove

[Shining Wrath]

Kill? No. Convert to vampirism en masse? I think that's the ticket.

Is there any class harder to do that to than clerics?

Do you know what happens to even a vampire with class levels if 20 or so high level clerics try to Turn him in cooperation?

[octavius_maximu]

This is my first post, but This might be something to consider:

:durkon: How will I finally be returnin' ta me beloved homelands?
:roach: (actually the Oracle) Posthumously

I guess they will be heading to dwarfen lands which allows this to come true

[dtilque]

By the way no dwarves or is Durkon and his former girlfriend the only dwarves wandering around the surface world?

One of the assassins (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0232.html) at the Weary Travelers Inn was a dwarf.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I seem to recall that one of the paladins Xykon TeeVo'd in Book 3 was a dwarf (running from a rust monster :smallbiggrin:).

[Gusion]

Kill? No. Convert to vampirism en masse? I think that's the ticket.

No, I don't think so.

He wants to follow the pilgrimage in a fast ship. He specifically says he doesn't care about the pilgrims. To me that implies he cares more about where they are going... and he wants to be there at the same time they get there, if not before.

Where "there" is equals a place that the deities are only telling their high priests. Durkula already knows where to go. He already knows how to find them. He just wanted the gnomes to tell Roy because he can't do it in a manner that is explainable to Roy... even though Roy specifically gives him one in this strip. Roy is telling him, sure if you and V tell me you have it figured out then I'll do it... I am predicting we see a future strip where Durkula is trying to convince a dubious V that he knows where to go, and that V should take his side with Roy.

Will V do that? I don't know. I don't see Durkula trying to use dominate on V, with a +10 will save and all. Anything is possible of course but statistically unlikely. The price of failure would be too high, with V's spellcraft and ability to administer retributive justice.

:durkon: Dominate!
:vaarsuvius: No. Sunburst!

And it would be completely logical for V to have taken Sunburst knowing she will be facing a lich again in the near future...

So no domination attempts, but I do think Durkula will attempt to persuade V - especially if V is successful in shopping. And I look forward to that strip.

[BenjCano]

Durkula already knows where to go. He already knows how to find them. He just wanted the gnomes to tell Roy because he can't do it in a manner that is explainable to Roy...


:durkon: Roy! Ye'll nae'r believe wha' Thor jus' tol' me, lad!

Put that together with a Dominate and he could have Roy believing that a MacGuffin of Plot Resolution was at the end of the fetch-quest.

[Acacia OnnaStik]

:durkon: Roy! Ye'll nae'r believe wha' Thor jus' tol' me, lad!

Put that together with a Dominate and he could have Roy believing that a MacGuffin of Plot Resolution was at the end of the fetch-quest.

Thing is, Durkon's never once presented them with direct divine revelations before, only interpreted omens. It'd be legitimately suspicious if he suddenly came out with an ultra-convenient revelation requiring immediate sidequesting now that he's dead. Certainly more so than all the minor details that people seem to be suggesting Roy should have noticed already.

And Roy is the one member of the party (minus V) Durkon considered most likely to be able to resist Malack's domination. It's hardly a foregone conclusion that Durkula would be able to do that to him now.

[Forikroder]

Thing is, Durkon's never once presented them with direct divine revelations before, only interpreted omens. It'd be legitimately suspicious if he suddenly came out with an ultra-convenient revelation requiring immediate sidequesting now that he's dead. Certainly more so than all the minor details that people seem to be suggesting Roy should have noticed already.

And Roy is the one member of the party (minus V) Durkon considered most likely to be able to resist Malack's domination. It's hardly a foregone conclusion that Durkula would be able to do that to him now.

especially since he prob has a lower cha

[Mad Humanist]

I reckon the title " Down the Winding Path" is a big indication that a great deal of plot is going to rest on that one exchange.

[StLordeth]

Been liking the last few with Durkon.

[ScrapperTBP]

And Roy really didn't notice the drop in accent? Come on man

[i6uuaq]

Did no one notice frame 6? Roy asks why no other shrine told them about the pilgrimage, and Durkula immediately interjects and changes the topic.

Combined with the dawning realization in the last panel, I suspect that vampires are particularly deadly to these priests for some reason, although what a group of clerics might fear from a vampire is a mystery to me.

[Kantaki]

Did no one notice frame 6? Roy asks why no other shrine told them about the pilgrimage, and Durkula immediately interjects and changes the topic.

Combined with the dawning realization in the last panel, I suspect that vampires are particularly deadly to these priests for some reason, although what a group of clerics might fear from a vampire is a mystery to me.

I think it is more that they know that there is a Vampire around that is Hels High Priest and that they don't want him to reach whatever destination the pilgrimage has. Most likely there is somthing in this place that could give Hel an advantage against the other northern gods. Obviously it wouldn't be in their best interest if one of her agents where to reach it.

[Gusion]

Did no one notice frame 6? Roy asks why no other shrine told them about the pilgrimage, and Durkula immediately interjects and changes the topic.

Combined with the dawning realization in the last panel, I suspect that vampires are particularly deadly to these priests for some reason, although what a group of clerics might fear from a vampire is a mystery to me.

I think it likely indicates their desire to keep their mission a secret in general versus them being scared of a vampire specifically. Durkula implies that he knows it would be a secret but that he knows what it is as a result of also being a high priest.

It could be a lot of things, either something we know or something we don't know about already. If the former my guesses are:

1. To discuss the Rifts.
2. To discuss the Snarl.
3. To discuss Durkula
4. To DISCUSS LAURIN'S FAVOR THAT NEVER GOT RESOLVED *cough cough*

[dancrilis]

4. To DISCUSS LAURIN'S FAVOR THAT NEVER GOT RESOLVED *cough cough*

This did get resolved - Tarquin gave her the area of the rift.

I am not sure that Durkon does know the exact destination - if he did he could just jump out of the airship when he needed to and fly where he wanted (if it passes at all close by - which he gave the impression that it did).

[LeSwordfish]

Laurin's favour was the land that the rift stood on.

[happycrow]

And because she jacked with it, the Snarl is no longer merely theoretical as a problem pending Kraagor's Gate, but loose in the world. That could easily have some of the gods' attention, too.

[Doug Lampert]

And Roy really didn't notice the drop in accent? Come on man

There were something like half a dozen drops of the accent prior to the big reveal (comic 946). Most of this board, even with people pointing the drops out for them, refused to believe this meant the Vampire was not Durkon. Several people pointed to various places PRIOR to becoming a vampire where the accent dropped. It's never been 100% consistent.

The accent has probably dropped more often since he became a vampire, but that's it. I do not understand this INSISTANCE that Roy should notice and be convinced by things demonstrably too weak to convince people who have all the evidence laid out in front of them and have plenty of time and far less emotional investment.

If you now claim that Roy should KNOW this is not Durkon based on accent drops, I'd be interested in seeing the post you made prior to 946 where you claimed that the accent slips proved this was not Durkon and that Roy should figure it out from those. Because there were people making that claim prior to 946, but I don't think any of them are now claiming that it should be obvious to Roy now, because they know how hard it was to convince anyone based on accent slips when there hadn't been panels showing us the actual situation.

Edited to add: Serious question, is there anyone who now thinks that it should be obvious to Roy who posted that it was obvious prior to 946? I really think these are disjoint groups because one of them knows how easily people can reject evidence on the order of accent changes, having seen it just recently on this very subject.

[rbetieh]

Please resolve this disconnect for me...

The vampire spirit knows that a pilgrimage is going on, the most logical source of this information is Hel, Before he was injected into Durkon (otherwise, Durkon sees and hears what he does and would know about it). How is it that the God Hel Knows that said confab is happening, but somehow doesnt know Where it is happening?

[Forikroder]

And because she jacked with it, the Snarl is no longer merely theoretical as a problem pending Kraagor's Gate, but loose in the world. That could easily have some of the gods' attention, too.

if the "snarl" is "loose" then the world would have been destroyed by now

either thats not the "snarl" or weve been misinformed on what the snarl is


The vampire spirit knows that a pilgrimage is going on, the most logical source of this information is Hel, Before he was injected into Durkon (otherwise, Durkon sees and hears what he does and would know about it). How is it that the God Hel Knows that said confab is happening, but somehow doesnt know Where it is happening?

she may know but Durkon said the important thing isnt meeting them but following them so he needs to let roy know without telling him

or the gods dont let Hel know about this and all shes managed to figure out is that it happens around this time

[Kantaki]

Please resolve this disconnect for me...

The vampire spirit knows that a pilgrimage is going on, the most logical source of this information is Hel, Before he was injected into Durkon (otherwise, Durkon sees and hears what he does and would know about it). How is it that the God Hel Knows that said confab is happening, but somehow doesnt know Where it is happening?

As far as I can tell the HPoH does know where the pilgrimage leads. But it is possible that neither he nor his goddess know how to get in. There might be a trick to the whole thing that has to be shown to you from another High Priest or the place can only be reached during the pilgrimage, both variants would mean that Darkon has to follow them to reach the destination.

[Jasdoif]

As far as I can tell the HPoH does know where the pilgrimage leads. But it is possible that neither he nor his goddess know how to get in. There might be a trick to the whole thing that has to be shown to you from another High Priest or the place can only be reached during the pilgrimage, both variants would mean that Darkon has to follow them to reach the destination.Alternatively (or additionally), he already declared (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0982.html) the best way to get where he's needed is for Roy to escort him, so he may be trying to get Roy to escort him all the way to where the pilgrimage leads.

[Fish]

It doesn't matter how much the HPOH knows. He can't use it, because Durkon wouldn't know. Roy would be suspicious if Durkon knew about this event, so the HPOH can't just say it.

That suggests to me that this gathering is not a routine event that happens all the time in the North. If this were an Annual High Priest Convocation, Durkon would have heard of it.

But Durkon doesn't know, and I think it's safe to presume HPOH knows that Durkon doesn't know — and knew without asking. If he had asked, "Give me all your memories on the High Priest Convication" or the like, Durkon would know. But he doesn't.

(Possibly erroneous) conclusion: it's a one-time event that Hel knows about, possibly an emergency meeting, maybe related to the gates.

[LordRahl6]

As far as I can tell the HPoH does know where the pilgrimage leads. But it is possible that neither he nor his goddess know how to get in. There might be a trick to the whole thing that has to be shown to you from another High Priest or the place can only be reached during the pilgrimage, both variants would mean that Darkon has to follow them to reach the destination.

It could also be that its an alignment problem and Hel and the HPoH need the others to open to way to begin with. LOVE this ongoing bit with regards to the clergy being unable or slow (in this case) to inform Roy about the nature of Vampirism. It'll probably only be revealed to him at the MOST INOPPORTUNE TIME.:smallcool::smalleek:

[Jay R]

:durkon: Roy! Ye'll nae'r believe wha' Thor jus' tol' me, lad!

Not until it rains.

[Neoriceisgood]

:durkon: Roy! Ye'll nae'r believe wha' Thor jus' tol' me, lad!

Put that together with a Dominate and he could have Roy believing that a MacGuffin of Plot Resolution was at the end of the fetch-quest.


This makes me wonder how much Durkula could pull off before Roy would get suspicious.

[Kantaki]

Not until it rains.

Storms, you mean storms. :smalltongue: Thor sends his messages with thunder and lighting and rain out of buckets.:smallbiggrin: The word rain doesn’t really fit that.

[BenjCano]

Not until it rains.

Do we need to repeat the punchline of 953? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0953.html) :smalltongue:

[Theory]

As someone who champions the cause that there are mythologies other than greek/roman, I love the eye to detail on the Norse mythology. It's nice to see references that weren't taken from old Thor comic books. (Fun comics/movies, but How to Train your Dragon is more authentic once you get past the horned helmets.)

As we've seen clerics of Loki and Hel, I wonder if we'll see priest of Loki's other children showing up. Fenris and Jormungand, the Midgard serpent, would have less of the administrative impact on the cosmology as their sister Hel, but they may want in on the High priest action for themselves. Symbolically, both Fenris and Jormungand have a lot in common with the Snarl, in being potential instigators of cosmological destruction.

I also have to wonder if Hel is subservient to her father, Loki? Is she a pawn in his game?

[D.One]

I also have to wonder if Hel is subservient to her father, Loki? Is she a pawn in his game?

I believe all of them, Hel included, are subservient to a deity called The Great Plot, Herald of the mysterious god known only as "The Giant".:smallwink:

[happycrow]

if the "snarl" is "loose" then the world would have been destroyed by now

either thats not the "snarl" or weve been misinformed on what the snarl is

May I refer you to the last two panels, and most particularly Roy's observation? :)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html

[Theory]

I believe all of them, Hel included, are subservient to a deity called The Great Plot, Herald of the mysterious god known only as "The Giant".:smallwink:

I think that probably could have gone without saying.

[Blue_C.]

I also have to wonder if Hel is subservient to her father, Loki? Is she a pawn in his game?

In this, I doubt it. Or, she has motives that aren't being served properly as his minion. Fenris probably has a werewolf cleric or two running around (and I suddenly want to make one as a BBEG), not to mention some more savage druids, and Loki has a full working temple system, but Hel is left bereft. As such, Loki is as much a part of the system she seems to not appreciate, since the primary obstacle to her plans was apparently a want of a high level cleric.

I'm curious what her plan actually is. Should be interesting either way.

[The Pilgrim]

Can we assume that this reunion of clerics means the Gods are finally amassing their forces in order to do something about all those Gates blowing up?

[Mad Humanist]

I keep noticing things here. In the flashback there is a blindfold cleric holding a bow and arrow. How does that work?

[Keltest]

I keep noticing things here. In the flashback there is a blindfold cleric holding a bow and arrow. How does that work?

High luck modifiers.

[BannedInSchool]

I keep noticing things here. In the flashback there is a blindfold cleric holding a bow and arrow. How does that work?
It's only a 50% total concealment miss chance if you can't see your target. :smallsmile:

[Mad Humanist]

It's only a 50% total concealment miss chance if you can't see your target. :smallsmile:

But surely if you were a cleric of Hodor, and you wanted to employ an archer you would encourage them to use their full sight.

[Xihirli]

We've gone over this already, Hoder himself was a blind archer, which was how he managed to kill his brother "by accident" (there was no malice but everyone was using lethal force on the guy. Everyone. Like a party game. He was just the first one with a good thwack).

It's a mythology gag.

[Snails]

Can we assume that this reunion of clerics means the Gods are finally amassing their forces in order to do something about all those Gates blowing up?

It is a reasonable thing to speculate about, but I would be careful about assumptions. The strong hint supporting what you suggest is how the flashback shows a very solemn bunch of clerics.

The gods may have occluded knowledge of the Gates for a long time, but with only one Gate standing the charade is up and it is too risky to not reveal some cards and push chips to the center of the table.

[ti'esar]

As someone who champions the cause that there are mythologies other than greek/roman, I love the eye to detail on the Norse mythology. It's nice to see references that weren't taken from old Thor comic books.

That's sort of an ironic compliment to give, considering that the Giant has explicitly said in the past that OOTS Thor and Loki have a lot more in common with Marvel Thor and Loki than they do with the mythological deities.

Although Hoder is a relatively obscure figure, so he's clearly done at least some research.

[Gusion]

This did get resolved - Tarquin gave her the area of the rift.


May I refer you to the last two panels, and most particularly Roy's observation? :)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html

I suppose that depends on your definition of resolved. :-)

It is all good, I wrote poorly. But I think people forgot all about that "little problem" and I think it is likely relevant to why the high priests are on the move.

[Forikroder]

May I refer you to the last two panels, and most particularly Roy's observation? :)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html

so either A) thats NOT the snarl or B) everything we know about the snarl has been misinformation

in other words, exactly waht i already said


It is a reasonable thing to speculate about, but I would be careful about assumptions. The strong hint supporting what you suggest is how the flashback shows a very solemn bunch of clerics.

The gods may have occluded knowledge of the Gates for a long time, but with only one Gate standing the charade is up and it is too risky to not reveal some cards and push chips to the center of the table.

if the gods take action it would probably be by hitting the reset button and recreating the prison even more carefully

[Blue_C.]

It is a reasonable thing to speculate about, but I would be careful about assumptions. The strong hint supporting what you suggest is how the flashback shows a very solemn bunch of clerics.

The gods may have occluded knowledge of the Gates for a long time, but with only one Gate standing the charade is up and it is too risky to not reveal some cards and push chips to the center of the table.
But is only one gate remaining inherently more risky than the status quo that had existed for millennia, that of no gates existing at all?

Also, Forikroder has it right, the gods know exactly what to do. Its the people living in the stickverse that should be worried, if they knew anything was amiss. The Northern Pantheon also can't be too panicked about The Plan, because they shouldn't know it exists, unless they learned of it via Tsukiko and the Southern Gods.

[Rodin]

so either A) thats NOT the snarl or B) everything we know about the snarl has been misinformation

in other words, exactly waht i already said


It could still be partially sealed. The Snarl is big enough that they built an entire world around it to seal it. Right now what it's seeing is holes in the prison. It has just enough room to reach an arm through and grab whatever happens to be on the other side. We don't see it do that in Azure City because the rift is way up in the sky, and presumably Blackwing/Xykon didn't look in there long enough to attract the Snarl's attention.

The Snarl isn't loose yet, but the iron bars on its cage are bending.

[Forikroder]

It could still be partially sealed. The Snarl is big enough that they built an entire world around it to seal it. Right now what it's seeing is holes in the prison. It has just enough room to reach an arm through and grab whatever happens to be on the other side. We don't see it do that in Azure City because the rift is way up in the sky, and presumably Blackwing/Xykon didn't look in there long enough to attract the Snarl's attention.

The Snarl isn't loose yet, but the iron bars on its cage are bending.

the snarl is nothing more then chaos and destruction incarnate

it should be basically incapable of doing anything other then killing and destroying everything it can reach yet the "snarl" we see in the desert doesnt seem to be doing either

[Acacia OnnaStik]

the snarl is nothing more then chaos and destruction incarnate

it should be basically incapable of doing anything other then killing and destroying everything it can reach yet the "snarl" we see in the desert doesnt seem to be doing either

It looked to me like it was doing a fair amount of destroying. It just can't reach very far. Yet.

We really can't say for sure, of course, until we actually know things like whether Laurin- or anyone else who was there- survived.

[Forikroder]

It looked to me like it was doing a fair amount of destroying. It just can't reach very far. Yet.

We really can't say for sure, of course, until we actually know things like whether Laurin- or anyone else who was there- survived.

seemed to be reaching pretty damn far to me

mainly in the height department

[Mad Humanist]

We've gone over this already, Hoder himself was a blind archer, which was how he managed to kill his brother "by accident" (there was no malice but everyone was using lethal force on the guy. Everyone. Like a party game. He was just the first one with a good thwack).

It's a mythology gag.

Not really. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6%C3%B0r Loki helped Hodor fire the shot. So we cannot assume Hodor is a particularly good archer nor that he has any affinity with mistletoe.

OF course it is possible that the Giant has some awesome twist on Norse mythology but so far he has generally played them for one off laughs so it would be a change of depth,

[Ron Miel]

Question 3... Who would the Elf be a Priest/ess of? Norse Elves tended to be equals/rivals of the deities, not worshipers.

ISTR that it says somewhere (SOD, maybe) that the OOTS-world elves made gods for themselves, like the goblins did with the Dark One.

[Keltest]

ISTR that it says somewhere (SOD, maybe) that the OOTS-world elves made gods for themselves, like the goblins did with the Dark One.

Its in the Crayons of Time and way early on in DCF. Rich has also commented that the Elven pantheon is West + Elven Gods.

[Faltenin]

I keep noticing things here. In the flashback there is a blindfold cleric holding a bow and arrow. How does that work?

Having a bow doesn't mean you're an archer. It could be some sort of holy symbol, since their deity is closely connected to one. The holy symbol doesn't have to be something the gods like and approve of (cf the cross...)

[Forikroder]

Having a bow doesn't mean you're an archer. It could be some sort of holy symbol, since their deity is closely connected to one. The holy symbol doesn't have to be something the gods like and approve of (cf the cross...)

or there willing to remove the blindfolds in case of combat

[Kantaki]

or there willing to remove the blindfolds in case of combat

Wouldn't that kind of go against the whole point of the blindfolds? I mean they wear them to be closer to their god, a follower of Hoder would most likely prefer to learn how to fight blind to taking of the blindfold. Afterall Hoder cannot to this either. A member of his clergy would tell you that if you cannot fight blind maybe you should serve the temple of Hoder in another way.

[DominusMegadeus]

I think this big secret mountain meeting is called by the Gods every so often to make some huge decisions regarding the gates, established in the interest of not creating another Snarl out of their disagreement. Only the high priests of each god can attend, and only with a promise of non-violence. Until now, this meant Hel got no say in any of it. Durkula, being an official high priest, will crash it and throw his hat in the ring for her interests, with none of the Good priests able to attack him on neutral ground. He doesn't want to meet the priests until he's already safe in the meeting.

Of course, there's not much of a reason the Gods can't meet in person (as we've seen with Thor and co.), so putting their incredibly mortal followers in danger for such a meeting seems dumb.

I'm just taking a shot in the dark.

[Shining Wrath]

seemed to be reaching pretty damn far to me

mainly in the height department

You aren't going Lovecraftian enough. Those tendrils represent a tiny fraction of the immense Snarl. And the Snarl is killing at least one guard here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html), just to the left of Laurin and Myron. Not to mention that the change in Laurin's eye color suggests that her mind was being affected, which is why Myron has to drag her away from danger. Again, Lovecraft; to touch the Snarl's mind with yours, is to lose your mind (or part of it - we haven't seen Laurin to know if she's a gibbering idiot, impaired, or merely stunned for a moment).

[Gift Jeraff]

I always saw the change in Laurin's eye color just being a case of dramatic eye reflections.

[Shining Wrath]

I always saw the change in Laurin's eye color just being a case of dramatic eye reflections.

Plausible, but notice she stops talking mid-sentence, Myron detects a change in her and asks "Laurin?", the combination suggesting that she was impacted mentally by the approaching Snarl.

Her eyes go from normal black to "Psion Mode" yellow to "reflect Snarl glazed".

[littlebum2002]

I think this big secret mountain meeting is called by the Gods every so often to make some huge decisions regarding the gates, established in the interest of not creating another Snarl out of their disagreement. Only the high priests of each god can attend, and only with a promise of non-violence. Until now, this meant Hel got no say in any of it. Durkula, being an official high priest, will crash it and throw his hat in the ring for her interests, with none of the Good priests able to attack him on neutral ground. He doesn't want to meet the priests until he's already safe in the meeting.


First rule about the gates? Gods can't talk about the gates.


Plausible, but notice she stops talking mid-sentence, Myron detects a change in her and asks "Laurin?", the combination suggesting that she was impacted mentally by the approaching Snarl.

Her eyes go from normal black to "Psion Mode" yellow to "reflect Snarl glazed".

It's possible she's in awe. That's how I read it, too. The snarl is so huge it blocks out her vision, thus being reflected in her eyes, and leaves her speechless.

I've never read it your way before, but that is also a very plausible way to look at it.

[Forikroder]

You aren't going Lovecraftian enough. Those tendrils represent a tiny fraction of the immense Snarl. And the Snarl is killing at least one guard here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html), just to the left of Laurin and Myron. Not to mention that the change in Laurin's eye color suggests that her mind was being affected, which is why Myron has to drag her away from danger. Again, Lovecraft; to touch the Snarl's mind with yours, is to lose your mind (or part of it - we haven't seen Laurin to know if she's a gibbering idiot, impaired, or merely stunned for a moment).

sure but one guard out of the dozen+ targets there means hes an exception not the rule

and even without lovecraftian mind stuff you see something that immense your likely to lose your train of thought


Wouldn't that kind of go against the whole point of the blindfolds? I mean they wear them to be closer to their god, a follower of Hoder would most likely prefer to learn how to fight blind to taking of the blindfold. Afterall Hoder cannot to this either. A member of his clergy would tell you that if you cannot fight blind maybe you should serve the temple of Hoder in another way.

they only wear them while on duty so seems like the rest of the time they can still see, im guessing if someone comes to try to kill them theyll put keeping themselves alove and the temple safe over a small token towards there deity