Homebrew Setting, pt. 1: Defining the Deities

[wooglycakes]

I'm working towards creating a homebrew setting for a future E10/Pathfinder game. I've decided on a top-down approach, so I'll hammer out the cosmology before moving onto smaller parts.

One main theme I'm toying with for this pantheon is astrolatry, mainly that mortal worshipers see the heavenly bodies as the deities themselves, and that this relationship should be reflected in the game by how the heavenly bodies affect divine magic, and are connected to (or simply are) other plane(t)s of existence.

The other theme I want to reinforce is the division between religion and the deities themselves. When I discuss the deities below, the stories are based upon the truth that a player or a character might be able to piece together when they see the whole picture. It is followed by how I might integrate worship of that deity into different societies.

I am less concerned with having deities represent every alignment and domain in the game. Alternatives, such as animism or shamanism, should and will exist, though their relationship to established religion should be hammered out.

So, without further ado, I'll start writing out the individual deities when I have time. If you have time, please advise me on how to make each deity more appealing. I'm having trouble with:


Names. I suck at names. How would you name the deities or their churches?
Critique. Would you, as a player, want to play a character that worships this god? What might make them more appealing? What can I change to make that happen?
Other Crunch. What kind of domains, alignment, or favoured weapon fit this deity?

The Sun (see below) | The Moon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415268-Homebrew-Setting-pt-1-Defining-the-Deities&p=19278815#post19278815)

The Sun http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/4/4d/Manar.gif?version=6d799e33eede5a95f9f24b5f9bc075c1 http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/3/3a/Manaw.gif?version=6c8a83346f048edd5736c9dc674dd668 http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/d/dc/Manab.gif?version=1f2c40b8757a8b5a3c377e72322aff38
Goddess of rulership, the inevitable, adherence to order and tradition, perseverance

In the swirling protomatter of the Astral Sea, the Sun was the first that was. She was initially a goddess of creation and passion in equal measure, and the source of all divine magic. The Sun realized that it was terribly lonely, being the only being in existence, and so she made others in her image, the other gods.

But the Sun couldn't replicate the divine power she had, and so she gave her children a fragment of her own power over creation. Soon, they in turn created the Earth. The Sun's constant light was too much for things that lived on the Earth; to protect their creations, the gods hatched a plot to murder their mother.

The gods succeeded, in part. Some were more hesitant than others, but in the end, they wrested the Sun's dominion over creation away from her, striking her down. It was then that the Sun realized the folly of treating her creations as equals and children, that attachment begets pain. So, she changed. (Note that the Sun is a creator, not necessarily a mother.)

She could not take back the power she had given the gods, not without taking away the faith the other gods had accumulated from the mortals on Earth. To destroy the forms the gods had created, the Sun gave mortals fire, something they mistakenly believe they can control. To destroy the minds, the Sun gave the mortals hierarchy, order, a society. Those who rule would be ever at odds with their lessers, and the strife this causes gives the Sun power, even though she instructs them otherwise.

Each day, she shines upon the Earth, but her power is still weakened by interference by the other gods, and she must retreat to gather her strength once more: this is night. But the gods' divine power is limited, continued only by the faith the mortals provide. The Sun can wait. Her victory is inevitable, following the rules that govern the world her creations have sullied.

Worshipers and Spheres of Influence: I imagine the Sun being prayed to for fire, to purge enemies with it or to be saved from it; those who benefit from the status quo pray to the Sun for her continued blessings, whereas established religions preach to the serfs and slaves that their fate is deservedly so, and the only thing they can do is serve.


Humans: The Sun is seen in a more benevolent light in temperate climates, as a guiding light for both the rulers and the ruled. Perhaps she is seen more as a goddess of light than the sun itself. In deserts, the Sun might be worshiped by people who see her as a terrible, vengeful goddess of destruction and oppression, more about fire and blistering heat than anything. Each side may see sects from the other as heretics.

Elves: I envision elven faith as more personified than others; whereas humans might be content worshiping the Sun as a goddess of other things, the elves probably view her as a motherly figure, scorned and betrayed but unbroken. Some of them may see her inevitable victory as a sign of ultimate elven resurgence, if they support her. It may be her interaction with fate and people, then, that appeals to elves more than the physical aspects of fire and light.

Dwarves: The sun probably means little to people who spend their entire lives underground, but fire affects all. The Sun is probably seen as a patron being of creation, passion, and fire, with less angst than her other incarnations.

Orcs: I want to put orcs not underground, but as having lived in areas hostile to life such as tundra or deserts. For them, the Sun might be similar to the humans' more malevolent interpretation, but even more warlike, angry, and orc-like.

[dysike]

Unfortunately I suck at names so I'm not any help there

One idea I had for Orcs with this god would be to have them focus of the motherhood aspect similar to the elves. Warrior societies after all need a lot of children to replace the dead, it seems appropriate therefore to have them respect a maternal figure, possibly also having an elder woman in the village as a priestess to this god. After all if anyone could still have love and respect for a mother figure even though she was trying to destroy creation, it would be the orcs.

[sktarq]

Overview?

Do you have ideas on how many moons your world should have?

How many planets there are and how are they different on a divine level?

And what are the stars?

And what are comets?

Meteorites?

Is the earth a god/goddess? Some other divine being?

Also if someone makes a telescope or a magical equivalent and sees new stars/etc then what?

Also planetary rings, asteroid belts etc?

[Yora]

I'm working towards creating a homebrew setting for a future E10/Pathfinder game. I've decided on a top-down approach, so I'll hammer out the cosmology before moving onto smaller parts.

Even when doing a pure top down approach, before you adress things at the cosmic level, it's really very worthwhile to start even one step higher at the meta level.

To know which gods you need and what gods will work well, you first need to decide on an overall theme and purpose for the setting.

[META_mahn]

I'm building my own Roll20 campaign right now; I instead of making "gods" in a traditional sense, I payed a bit of tribute to Gygax, and named the only god (also dead) after him. Every "god" was instead called a "Master," calling back to the title of Dungeon Master. All the Masters did something to contribute to the world, and all the bad guys were Pandora's Box spirits.

I have no idea how this will turn out.

[wooglycakes]

Thanks for the responses.

@Yora: I've been brainstorming a campaign around the idea that the moon exploding, and the PCs working to survive and restore a changing world. I've fleshed it out so far with the idea that the moon is at the same time a deity and a force controlling or regulating magic on earth, so that its explosion also means the death of a deity and wild, uncontrollable magic; and the idea that evil is trying to gather the pieces of a MacGuffin to make sure that comes to pass.

Cosmic fleets of star-eating, non-euclidean horrors may be involved.

To that regard, the setting is going to be a little dark and filled with problems. Technology and society will be at a feudal or medieval level, so before chemistry (alchemists, alchemical items, gunslingers), science (telescopes), and society (concept of rights, separation of church from states or lives, the middle class) really came into force.

Limiting the game to E10 and fiddling with the rules should ensure that the deities of the world grant powers to the faithful, and that no-one has access to plane shift while spells like commune, divination, and planar ally get answered by unknown forces. (If I recall correctly, Eberron also had pantheons that were non-responsive.) Furthermore, the number of gods would be the number of planets in classical astrology.

To my understanding, that is the Sun, the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Uranus and Neptune are apparently "faintly visible to the naked eye in good conditions," which I take it to mean that elves have a better chance of seeing them than humans.

Does this answer your point?

@sktarq: The above post should answer some of your questions, but to note:

The world has yet to invent the telescope, but if presented with how planets actually look like, or new stars, the faithful might conclude that the planets aren't the physical manifestations of their deity, but that they symbolically represent their deity's interest in the world (the effects of planetary alignment to the earth and divine magic will be undeniable). "Jupiter is truly the eye of our deity on the world," etc.

To the faithful, the stars represent a tapestry written by the gods to guide or instruct mortals, or maybe they're just pretty lights. To those unbeholden to the gods, the stars might mean something else entirely. To crazy magic conspiracy theorists, the stars and planets are different planes of existence, so there could be an entirely different world filled with different people and gods near a different star, but that can't be right, can it?

The world will have one moon, mainly because I intend to blow it up and the impact wouldn't be as great if the earth had multiple moons, I think.

The list of planets as gods are above, but on a divine level, I'm thinking about the planets' symbology in ancient astrology, as well as their perceived distance to the earth. It makes more sense for the Sun and Moon to have an important role in the world compared to Neptune, for example.

The earth itself is not worshiped by people who worship the gods, most likely because it isn't perceived to be anything more than 'a place where I live.' Spiritualism and animism will be prevalent in the world as well, but it will only touch upon the concept of the earth as an equal power to the gods briefly, if at all.

If I understand correctly, planetary rings and the asteroid belt are not visible by the naked eye. On the topic of meteorites and 'starmetal', as it were, I think that they would be seen as blessed by the gods, and might be valued as such. However, I don't intend for the earth to get hit by meteorites (until the moon explodes) during the campaign. And in a world where magic has run havoc and twisted the earth in places, why would people look at craters and not think that, "A mage did it?"

@META_Mahn: Symbolism that the players can interact with on a meta-game level should be interesting. Let me know how yours turns out!

@dysike: Having thought about it some more, your interpretation of the Sun as a mother-goddess to the orcs makes much more sense. I'll be using that idea!

Furthermore, to create a world that isn't solely mired in polytheism, the majority of 'civilized' humans and assimilated races will worship the Sun in a monotheistic religion, I think. True elves will continue to worship the entire pantheon of deities, true dwarves will most likely worship the gods as beneath or equal to their worship of their ancestors or spirits, and people in the wilderness probably worship the more appreciable aspects of nature over some poncy gods only visible during certain times of the day.

I will return later tonight or tomorrow, and try to flesh out the Moon.

[avr]

On deific names, I prefer using titles to random syllables, especially if the same name is going to be used in different languages. If you don't want to name the sun-goddess 'The Sun' you might name her 'The First' in your mythology given that she was after all the first being.

If I were in a game I'd worship the Sun if some particular cult appealed to me. You've said there are multiple inconsistent versions of her worship; I'd need actual details on those to have a reason to follow one of them.

For weapons - horses can be associated with sun gods historically. If you go with that, that would make some weapon used on horseback - a 1H sword or lance or bow - the one associated with her. I'd go with a lance.


Re visibility of Uranus/Neptune - as much as low light vision you'd need clear skies and preferably high altitude to see them, and a long lifespan to have the patience to notice that they move. Elves living in a high-altitude desert would be ideal if there are any in your world.

[Sam113097]

I'm working on a similar pantheon, with the sun, earth, and moon revered as gods, and the stars considered the spirits of the dead. In my opinion, the moon should represent the opposite ideas of the sun. While the sun is constant, the moon is ever changing, etc.

As far as names go, if the Sun is considered female, you could go with something like Lumina, Sol, Radia, or Aubade. All have meanings tied to the sun or light

[Aergoth]

Seconding the Titles over Names crowd here.

The sun is a tricky subject. If you live in a region of the world that experiences shift in the length of days, or in a desert, your relationship with the sun might be somewhat adversarial or focused around appeasing the sun. You want to have sunlight because it's neccessary for life and it's cold without it. But there's such thing as too much of a good thing.

So while your sun-worshipping society may be monotheistic it probably shouldn't have a single shared orthodoxy.

Horses are associated with the sun because of it's transit but often with the idea that the sun itself is some sort of vehicle (chariots, boats, etc)

As far as your whole observations of the skies thing, yes a number of the planetary bodies are observable with the naked eye, and the only reason they weren't classed as stars was because some of them had observable movement that differed to the typical movement (especially where you've got planets that appear to turn around and go backwards, like mars)

Bear in mind the (non-physics related, because we're working with fantasy here) effects of destroying the moon on the planet. How do lycanthropes (if they exist) work in absentia to the moon?
What about the fragments that land? (assuming such exist)

[META_mahn]

@META_Mahn: Symbolism that the players can interact with on a meta-game level should be interesting. Let me know how yours turns out!


I'm even thinking of the "gods" not as guys who reside in realms inaccessible to most people, but rather guys who live alongside people. Some of them (like maybe the first Master) might probably live in a showy palace, while others (like the Thief Master) might just live alongside people normally.

The lore is actually narrated by the seventh Master, the guy who created people.


I got here by avoiding all really big stereotypes, like a pantheon of gods, gods of celestial bodies, and one single god. I still explored the topic of duality, but I figured I would rather do away with gods "existing" in the first place, instead re-imagining the concept of "god(s)."

[wooglycakes]

The Moon http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/b/b0/Manag.gif?version=0e8b202fae3920d5d5e7282a203338f9 http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/2/23/Manau.gif?version=0fe6f3ee5179a5d993b9937b212ffcb5
God of consistency in change, dreams, prophecy, knowledge, the seas, and arcane magic
Previously the god of animals, primal instinct, the unconscious, lycanthropes, and the seas

Alignment: True neutral (unaligned and primal, not about balance).

Initial Idea: Symbolically, the other gods took fragments from the Sun's divine power over creation and divided them amongst themselves. A more sinister twist would be that the gods have human-like bodies themselves, and the other gods simply killed, cut, and ate the parts they thought mattered. Or not. Still a work in progress, after all.

The master over the earth when the Sun is not there, the Moon can be defined both in opposition and in his similarities to the Sun. He inherited the Sun's vision and wisdom, and understands all that has been and all that will be; at times, this puts him at odds with the other gods, who seldom understand his machinations.

Originally a primal being concerned with the flow of the seas and unconscious, natural desires and functions, the Moon's portofolio was altered when he achieved true godhood. He was the one who granted humans the subtlety behind words and intentions, the ability to see the future in small signs, and, most importantly, the ability to emulate divine power through their imaginations. This last part would become arcane magic.

The Moon is commonly prayed to for insight or intellectual breakthroughs, for omens, and far rarely, for safe travels over the seas or for safe births. Alternatively, the Moon might show his displeasure through writer's block, forgetfulness, lethargy, and sometimes, violent storms, terrible pains, still births.

Lycanthropy is an odd concept, since it was previously a blessing from the Moon; it meant a closer connection to the natural instincts that many people had lost. As time progressed, people began to see it as a curse, and the Moon simply ceased being worshiped as a patron of lycanthropes. By non-lycanthropes, anyways.

Some weird concepts: The Moon absorbed a fragment of the mind of the Sun, and as such, is closest to understanding its creators wishes than the other planets. Its strength on the world is limited to the night, mostly, but it is the closest 'planet' to the earth, and as such, one that exerts its strength over the world more strongly.

Such similarity can be seen through the Moon's understanding of the 'block universe', as perceived by the Sun: all things from the beginning to the end are preordained, people just can't see forwards in time. However, the Moon's initial portfolio of freedom from such intellectual drives lead him to reject this fatalistic view and his newfound role as a god of sages, prophecy, and certainty.

This might be represented in the moon's phases. Worshipers may see the actual moon as an 'eye' of sorts. Understanding the inherent pain behind the universe but refusing to accept it, the Moon is at its most intellectual when its eye is closed. But old impulses die hard, and the Moon gradually opens its eye each night, until it regains its purpose as the master of the great hunt and the sea once more.

The Moon seems like a deity of change, but he's really a god of habits, and change that isn't really change.

[wooglycakes]

@avr: You raise some excellent points.

When I flesh out Uranus and Neptune, their worship will be limited to mostly high-altitude areas, and with races that have better eyesight than the average human (i.e. elves), but hopefully I'll address that hurdle when I get there.

For the weapons, I completely intend for each sect to have its own holy weapons, and denounce the others as blasphemers and heretics. I might also introduce the separate sects as the actual gods themselves to the players, so that they don't see the whole picture, and make the intra-worshipers' conflict more interesting. However, lances and spears for worshipers on mostly flat ground where the sun's influence is most noticeable and where mounted combat happens to be great, sounds reasonable. I'll add that in.

As for the sects, I have a few vague ideas, but haven't fleshed them out yet. Here's an example:

The Order of the Open Heart http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/d/dc/Manab.gif?version=e3a865fa6f2c41d8afaba88512f2ff70 http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/4/4d/Manar.gif?version=6d799e33eede5a95f9f24b5f9bc075c1
"Let us show them our hearts, and then show them theirs."

Alignment: Lawful Neutral, or any evil.

Obsessed around the idea that everyone has sinned in the eyes of the Sun, who sacrificed herself to the vile forces of the night everyday to give us respite during the day, the Order of the Open Heart advocates the harshest measures of discipline and justice in its own ranks, and demands so from the lands it operates in.

It has come into conflict with the main church of the Sun repeated times for being too excessive or confrontational, but has also become one of the strongest military orders backing the church. The Order allowed to operate, since it puts stronger bodies on the field against the church's enemies than other organizations or client states.

The Order demands everyone pay penance, ideally through pain. It has shown tendencies to justify extreme measures, such as the sacrificial use of 'penitents' in labour, battles, or ritual sacrifices, through the whole, "focused on the goal, and **** the consequences" thing.

Most of its members are 'penitents', criminals and unlucky people dragged into the Order's service. Many of the Order's knightly members come from far-flung noble lines and houses, noble bastards and others who have risen through the order's ranks. A vast majority of them have become so inured to pain that they no longer care, or delight when they inflict pain upon others.

@Sam113097: I have tried to reflect both the Moon's differences from the Sun, and the forced similarities from its almost-equal role in the day-night cycle, from your suggestion. Thanks!

@Aergoth: I wasn't aware that Mars did that. I'll go educate myself on what the planets look like to the visible eye, maybe watch some videos, before writing any more about them.

The Sun-worshiping monotheistic society has divisive factions that go about doing their own thing, the Order of the Open Heart that I described above being one of them. The main church itself, I think, should preach something about accepting one's role in life and sacrifice being rewarded.

The Sun in desert climates, for the orcs and some humans, is definitely seen as more hateful, destructive, but perhaps equally as passionate.

How do lycanthropes work in absence of the moon?

My idea was that lycanthropy was originally a blessing from the Moon, to be closer to nature and your primal origins than is possible with the trappings of civilization. I may change the perspective of lycanthropes to be more animalistic and less rampantly Chaotic Evil, only seen as destructive and violent because that's what scared commoners and the religious system have branded them as, in a self-fulfilling cycle.

The full moon facilitates their transformation, but also keeps them in reign; for most of them, it allows them to lead dual lives, one as human and other as lycanthrope. With the moon destroyed, lycanthropes may go mad, be stuck in their altered form, and then people may dread the coming of the truly Chaotic Evil lycanthropes.

What about the fragments that land?

I wanted to treat them as meteorites that alter the landscape of the continent (and world), but also play up the fact that the death of this particular god has released a lot of volatile magic, and the limiters behind arcane magic have been broken.

Minor shards may prove extremely valuable as a component that augments spellcasting, or resources to use in magic item creation. Bigger chunks cause a whole host of problems. Maybe it transported an entire town into the Shadow Plane. Maybe it allowed a crazy wizard to turn time back or forward. Maybe it loosens the separation between this world and extraplanar creatures, so more things start coming through.

The Fade breaches from Dragon Age: Inquisition may be interesting to use as reference material.

Update: I've added Magic: the Gathering colours, and what I think the corresponding alignment is, to give more of a visual indication of how everything fits together. I hope it helps some people understand all this text better (or faster)!

[avr]

I wouldn't play an active member of the OotOH. I might play someone who had escaped from it.


On the Moon; a title for it might relate to that story in the next to last para. Gollum calls the Moon 'the Silver Eye' in the Lord of the Rings.

Again, there's no detail on what it might mean to worship the Moon. The lack of detail would stop me making a cleric or similar, though I might play an arcane magic wielder or a seafarer with some respect for the religion. Most of your article seems focused on discussing the Moon and not the religion, which is a mistake if it's something you'd present to your players. You deal with Moon-worshippers rather than the Moon in most D&Doid games.

On weapons, the primal instincts bit suggests that some ancient or primitive weapon might be the one traditionally associated with the Moon. Axes can be made to resemble a crescent moon to a greater or lesser degree and are just about as old as dirt.