Glyph of Warding

[CantigThimble]

This spell seems to be made to create traps at 200gp a pop, but it has some very interesting possibilities. The only limitations seem to be:
It needs to be scribed on a surface of some kind.
It either goes boom or stores a spell.
It activates when a specific type of creature does something you specify. (touching, reading, coming within distance)
The stored spell targets the creature that triggered it and any harmful effects it has will target the activator first.

So lets say my surface is the inside of a helmet, my spell is revivify, it targets dead creatures that touch it. Now we have a 500gp 1 use magic item that brings the wearer back to life if they die immediately. Alternatively you could go with a cure spell triggering on unconscious creatures. Or a wizard could make a haste scroll that triggers on reading. Naturally these are fairly expensive but not so much so that a 7-10th level adventurer couldn't have a few tucked away for emergencies.

[Ninja_Prawn]

So lets say my surface is the inside of a helmet,

Not contesting your main point of "Glyph of Warding is a useful spell", but I would rule the helmet to be an "object" subject to the clause "if the object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered".

[CantigThimble]

Huh, I must have missed that point. That certainly makes it harder to use.

[Shining Wrath]

You could, though, cast it on your bed, and trigger it if you die in your sleep (such as from having your throat cut).

[Ninja_Prawn]

Or if you knew where you were going to be fighting in the future (maybe you have plans to ambush someone?) you could create almost-invisible, single-use 'heal points' on nearby walls. Or, even better, quick escape points that teleport you away or turn you invisible...

Really, the fact that you can store *any spell* (assuming you have slots to cast it from) in a glyph gives this spell HUGE flexibility.

[CantigThimble]

Oh yes, if you have a base you can break the concentration rules and turn a fighter into a GOD by having him jump into a ball pit of warding glyphs. But it makes it very difficult for an adventuring band to use.

[Ninja_Prawn]

turn a fighter into a GOD by having him jump into a ball pit

Clearly this is part of Minsc's daily routine. Glyphs optional.

[Chronos]

My preferred method is to use a cape as the surface, and make the trigger "whenever the person touching this cape says 'buff me'". Use that same trigger for all of your favorite spells. You're now breaking the action economy, and the concentration economy, and the spells-per-day economy, for everyone in your party.

Of course, there are also variants of this to let you put up only a few buffs at a time to conserve glyphs, or to have multiple sets of buffs so you don't have to re-charge it every fight, or so on.


Quoth Ninja_Prawn:

Not contesting your main point of "Glyph of Warding is a useful spell", but I would rule the helmet to be an "object" subject to the clause "if the object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered".
Well, a table is explicitly given as an example of a "surface", and tables are moveable. So it's certainly possible to move glyphs on some things without killing the spell.

[pwykersotz]

Well, a table is explicitly given as an example of a "surface", and tables are moveable. So it's certainly possible to move glyphs on some things without killing the spell.

So is a book, but then it says that moving it breaks it. Tables and books are both movable, just not without killing the glyph.

[darkscizor]

The local mad wizard in of one of my campaigns uses this spell to no end, from instant healing stations to teleportation "escape pods". The party rogue has tried to steal from him only once and escaped with 4HP and what appeared to be a box of simple spices made useless by broken glass filling half the container. The rogue, not picking up on my obvious hints of what it was, threw it away.

If you think you know what it was, I'll give you three guesses.

[TurboGhast]

The local mad wizard in of one of my campaigns uses this spell to no end, from instant healing stations to teleportation "escape pods". The party rogue has tried to steal from him only once and escaped with 4HP and what appeared to be a box of simple spices made useless by broken glass filling half the container. The rogue, not picking up on my obvious hints of what it was, threw it away.

If you think you know what it was, I'll give you three guesses.

First guess: His component pouch?

[Chronos]

Except they specified that moving it breaks the spell only if you choose the object version, not the surface version. And the object version only applies to objects that can be closed. So for a cape or helmet or shield, if it's castable at all, it must be the surface version, and that's (for whatever reason) portable.


If you think you know what it was, I'll give you three guesses.
What it was, was something he risked his life to steal from a highly-powerful wizard. That right there is reason enough to hold onto it, even if he doesn't know any more.

[pwykersotz]

Except they specified that moving it breaks the spell only if you choose the object version, not the surface version. And the object version only applies to objects that can be closed. So for a cape or helmet or shield, if it's castable at all, it must be the surface version, and that's (for whatever reason) portable.


What it was, was something he risked his life to steal from a highly-powerful wizard. That right there is reason enough to hold onto it, even if he doesn't know any more.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

That said, I doubt it will fly often. Definitely at none of my tables. The most I would expect to get away with is moving the room as a whole. But if it moves in relation to its environs at all, dollars to doughnuts says it gets nuked.

Edit: I should clarify...I'm not for or against either ruling, merely supposing what would practically happen where I play and fishing to see if others feel that it might be similar for them, or if it would not be.

[DMBlackhart]

The Real question now becomes, as per what seems to be the misconception behind the spells initial abuse/value; JUST how broken would it be to allow Glyph to be cast on objects (that can move freely and well over 10 feet) (ex: Helmet or Sword), but as a higher level spell? Maybe 9th if needed for balance sake.

[CNagy]

...obviously the answer is that you cast the Glyph of Warding on the item while it is in a portable extra-dimensional space. That way the Glyphed item is on me, and the "where" of where it was cast is at most a foot or two away, in my backpack or on my belt. :smallbiggrin:

[Ninja_Prawn]

...obviously the answer is that you cast the Glyph of Warding on the item while it is in a portable extra-dimensional space. That way the Glyphed item is on me, and the "where" of where it was cast is at most a foot or two away, in my backpack or on my belt. :smallbiggrin:

A clever solution, but how common are portable extradimensional spaces that you can enter before Demiplane becomes available?

Regarding the surface/object debate, what do people think about a hybrid approach: objects like tables are surfaces as long as they are not mobile. As soon as you pick it up, it becomes an object? It seems like the RAI is that a glyph should not move from its starting location, though why they specify that objects have to be closeable, I can't fathom. Maybe the spell just fails if you cast it on a helmet or a cloak.

Also, I would say you do not choose to cast the 'surface version' of the spell; the spell chooses based on what you cast it on. It's a minor distinction, but it implies that the wizard's strength of conviction that his cloak is, in fact, a surface doesn't have to matter to the DM.

[CNagy]

A clever solution, but how common are portable extradimensional spaces that you can enter before Demiplane becomes available?

Regarding the surface/object debate, what do people think about a hybrid approach: objects like tables are surfaces as long as they are not mobile. As soon as you pick it up, it becomes an object? It seems like the RAI is that a glyph should not move from its starting location, though why they specify that objects have to be closeable, I can't fathom. Maybe the spell just fails if you cast it on a helmet or a cloak.

Also, I would say you do not choose to cast the 'surface version' of the spell; the spell chooses based on what you cast it on. It's a minor distinction, but it implies that the wizard's strength of conviction that his cloak is, in fact, a surface doesn't have to matter to the DM.

I was mostly joking, but if we want to be serious with it: you don't need to enter the extradimensional space, just the item in question. As for how common such spaces are, they are uncommon or rare. If your DM recognizes an extradimensional space as an extradimensional space even if the words extradimensional and space are not explicitly paired together, then you could conceivably use a Bag of Holding (uncommon). If your DM would rather his extradimensional spaces bear the label as such, then Heward's haver sack (rare).

I don't think I would allow it at my table, mostly because I think if the dev team wanted a Lesser Contingency spell, that would be in the book. But using them in a battle, as pre-planned buffs and healing in the defense of a structure? That seems like smart playing.

[Chronos]

Quoth pwykersotz:

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

That said, I doubt it will fly often. Definitely at none of my tables.
Agreed. As written, it's too powerful, for a number of reasons. I just feel it's important to know what the rules are, before I go and change them.

[ChubbyRain]

At level 1 in a 3.5 game we found out the name and exactly who our BBEG was (super capital E dude). We eventually even learned his true name (yeah, we had a truenamer).

Later in levels (month or two went by in real time) we got to the level where we could use Glyph of Warding.

The party fighter had her armor inscribed with, omg I forget how stupid high the number was, glyphs.

The party Blood Mage teleported out of the BBEG and then lead him to the fighter...

There was nothing left, we calculated it out to somewhere in the negative 300's...

The DM gave us downtime and let us do as we please... His reaction was priceless. Laughed his butt off for 10 minutes as this boss was still a few levels above us. He was the type that was never surprised and if you could then well... Good for you :p

Of course the mages and brutes that we started running into had spells on then too... Nothing as extreme though.

So the moral of the story is that this spell needed to be nerfed, and I'm glad it was.

[Chronos]

I would be glad if it was nerfed, too. Except it wasn't.

[ChubbyRain]

I would be glad if it was nerfed, too. Except it wasn't.

It was.

The surface versus object description is the Nerf. You can't have a walking atom bomb waiting for a specific BBEG to show up.

The object has to be able to be closed (such as a book) and the surface is one such as a table, floor, or wall.

A suit of armor no longer qualifies unless you have a DM that will house rule it.

Compare

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm

With the 5e version.

Oh, and at least it isn't a (Rogue Only) search and find gylph.

Edit: oh and we took the armor apart, cast the spells, and then put the armor together in order to get all the glyphs into one place.

[Chronos]

There's no reason you can't cast the surface version on a suit of armor instead of on a table. At least, not by RAW: The DM could so rule, but that would be the DM nerfing it.

Nor would you need to take the armor apart to cast all the spells on it, since there's no limit to how many glyphs you can have on one surface.

[JNAProductions]

It also has to be 10' square. Most armor suits lack a surface 10' square.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It also has to be 10' square. Most armor suits lack a surface 10' square.

I thought that was the maximum area it could cover: "the glyph can cover an area of the surface no larger than 10 feet in diameter". There doesn't seem to be a limit to how small you can make the glyph.

I still wouldn't allow you to call a suit of armour a 'surface' though.

[Shaofoo]

It seems that "surface" is anything that can hold the space of a creature since it uses tables, floors and walls as examples. You can stand on a table and definitely you use a floor to stand on, walls are used by climbers as a way to move.

Basically the only objects you could cast this on with the surface option are objects that are big enough to be able to hold a creature's space. Basically ask yourself if you have this item share space, can it either be placed as part of the planar floor or if the item through sheer size can be constituted as difficult terrain (I would assume a table would require more movement to be able to climb up and only through size or I'll have munchkins saying that they can cast glyphs on caltrops because they also cause difficult terrain, although exploding caltrops does seem sweet).

Just saying, a cloak or armor won't impede you if it is on the ground so it can't be cast as a surface.

Of course if you could find a tiny spellcaster then the tiny version of glyph could be used since a tiny character can be held by a suit of armor or a cloak.