Argue with me

[2E Phoinex]

One of my players, a brilliant if eccentric fellow, has built a character that I am having a very hard time conceptualizing. This forum has a track record of getting me to reconsider my hardline restrictions, and I have no desire to just say "no" to creative character concepts so I am asking the playground to try and argue on his behalf.

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background. He only builds characters using backgrounds and traits from the book. My player's idea is the character ran away from home, spent a couple years on the street, and then got picked up by a monk who took him to a monastery. It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits. The monk class seems to demand that the character spent formative years training in a monastery which conflicts with the idea of an Urchin background that is really sensitive to the urban heartbeat. Now I know I have the power to hand wave a lot of this and just let it be, but the idea seems like it would wreck verisimilitude a bit.

I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

[Kajorma]

I'm sorry, this is abuse.

Arguments are down the hall.

[Kajorma]

Okay, I decided that I have a serious response.

First off, I would never disallow a background for any class.
A background as evil henchman/torturer works perfectly fine into my concept of Paladin.
A dark (or at least contradictory) past makes for an interesting character.

I may talk to the player about making his character a bit older than a typical starting PC.
Something like...

You grew up on the streets, learning to lie almost as early as you learned to talk. Taking what you needed was the only way for you to survive. As you grew up, you became better at thievery, and started learning to be more subtle with your cons, and more careful with your targets.

One day, when you picked a simple traveler as your mark....

Things happen, taken to monastery, training begins, has to unlearn all he had learned, etc etc etc.

Since the training would have started later in life, I'd say that adding a few years to the age of the character makes sense.

[Easy_Lee]

Many paths lead to the same destination. He may have grown up an urchin, but he found a better way. His desire to never return to that life gave him the drive he needed to overcome his own body's limits and become a monk.

That's how I would do it, anyway.

[CantigThimble]

Why not say that he's an urban monk? His extraordinary speed, athletics and unarmed fighting ability come from years running on rooftops and being caught unarmed in alley fights. He survived by honing his pure determination. (Ki) His monk weapons are actually just improvised shivs and clubs.

Or he simply could have become an urchin after being raised by monks and remembered enough of his training to continue after he escaped from that life.

[Bellberith]

One of my players, a brilliant if eccentric fellow, has built a character that I am having a very hard time conceptualizing. This forum has a track record of getting me to reconsider my hardline restrictions, and I have no desire to just say "no" to creative character concepts so I am asking the playground to try and argue on his behalf.

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background. He only builds characters using backgrounds and traits from the book. My player's idea is the character ran away from home, spent a couple years on the street, and then got picked up by a monk who took him to a monastery. It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits. The monk class seems to demand that the character spent formative years training in a monastery which conflicts with the idea of an Urchin background that is really sensitive to the urban heartbeat. Now I know I have the power to hand wave a lot of this and just let it be, but the idea seems like it would wreck verisimilitude a bit.

I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

My only comments are....

Just because you cant "conceptualize" his creation doesn't mean you need to ban it. That is just ridiculous.

Also, i don't see anywhere in the monk class that says they must be good/lawful or anything of the sort.... Who says there can't be a trickster or thief type monk. Look at Sun Wukong for example from the Chinese mythos. The monkey king would undoubtedly be a monk but he is the most untamed and unrefined figure there is. Sun Wukong actually spent time in a monk's monastery himself and that did not change his nature. Not even 500 years under a mountain changed it.

Never try to stifle a player's creativity with characters if they aren't doing anything that is breaking the game or directly conflicts with your campaign design. In this situation i highly doubt an unrefined halfling monk conflicts with any campaign design. And as i had just given an example of... An unrefined monk is not unheard of.

[DireSickFish]

I'd go with the background even if he hand't included the bit about him getting taken in as a monk under tutelage. A monks powers and abilities aren't some secret guarded men and women in robes that live away from everyone. A Monks powers are primarily bout drawing on what oneself can do and raising it to superhuman levels.

The traditional monk background would be Acolyte or Sage, as they grew up in a holy/learned place and were taught by the masters of self and boy. Just like the quintessential fighter will have the soldier background, but he doesn't need to be a soldier to be a fighter. He could have been a blacksmith that made himself a sword to practice with in his off time (making him a Guild Artisan) or someone with natural ability that rose to the challenge when his home was attacked by goblins (Folk Hero).

Getting back to the monk I'd say that he would have ample opportunity to learn the way of being a monk as he has only himself to rely on in the streets. Sure the fasting wasn't intentional but he learned to conserve his energy and his bodies natural limits. Being poor and alone the only weapon to rely on is the only weapon that was always there: his hands, and knees, and elbows.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Dude seriously?You never heard of this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggars%27_Sect

Your Kung Fu is weak

[WickerNipple]

Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position

I'd walk out on a game where the question was even raised, so: yes.

[Yukitsu]

Someone obviously needs to watch Kung Fu Hustle.

[Clistenes]

Monk with Urchin Background? That pretty much is Kwai Chang Caine (Kung Fu series), who was an orphan living in the streets until accepted by the Shaolin Temple. And the Monk class is based on Kwai Chang Caine much more than on real Shaolin monks.

[AvatarVecna]

One of my players, a brilliant if eccentric fellow, has built a character that I am having a very hard time conceptualizing. This forum has a track record of getting me to reconsider my hardline restrictions, and I have no desire to just say "no" to creative character concepts so I am asking the playground to try and argue on his behalf.

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background. He only builds characters using backgrounds and traits from the book. My player's idea is the character ran away from home, spent a couple years on the street, and then got picked up by a monk who took him to a monastery. It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits. The monk class seems to demand that the character spent formative years training in a monastery which conflicts with the idea of an Urchin background that is really sensitive to the urban heartbeat. Now I know I have the power to hand wave a lot of this and just let it be, but the idea seems like it would wreck verisimilitude a bit.

I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

The ways a particular combination of race, class, background, and alignment can make sense are only limited by your imagination. There is nothing that can't make sense, if it's set up in the right context.

[obryn]

Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position
Definitely. Stop worrying, and let the player play their concept. You're overreaching in your desire to control the game.

[AvatarVecna]

As long as the player is presenting the combination in a way that makes a fully fleshed out character, there's nothing to really worry about. Nothing to get worked up over, certainly.

[Kane0]

I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

Out of the ordinary? Yes. Unintuitive? Probably. But incompatible? No way.
If you're familiar with 2nd/3rd ed then they enforced alignment restrictions on some classes, cementing how people look at them (paladin being the prime example but also barbarians, monks and druids). 4e and 5e move away from that, suggesting the 'norm' without forcing characters to be the stereotype.

An urban druid would be very similar to an urban ranger in some ways, which as a concept is no precedent. An urban monk can still be a monk, official monastery training is only one of the methods one can become a monk.

Have a quick look at some martial arts movies. Plenty of people are picked off the street and trained to martial arts mastery, and some even do it themselves. The circumstances before their training and mastery are often inconsequential, all they need is the right knack, drive and/or natural ability.

[Mr.Moron]

This depends. Is there a specific in-universe reason for urchin being incompatible?

"In this setting, the only place monk techniques are taught are in a handful of monasteries namely:This one here, This one here and ,This one Here. The class is being used to represent a very specific set of training guarded in these locations. They only accept children from specific noble families, at birth. There just isn't any way to make an Urchin fit"

Then a ban is probably fine.

If it's just:

"I guess I don't really see it. Monks are supposed to be all like, hermits and stuff"

Than a ban is probably overreaching a bit.

[burninatortrog]

There isn't really an argument to be had here, because everything comes down to what you, as DM, want to have in your setting.

That said, if you're going to turn down this character concept you really should have a better reason than what you've given so far. Stories about people who give up a chaotic, undisciplined, urban lifestyle in favor of a disciplined monastic lifestyle (and possibly even become martial artists) are as old as time and are rampant in literature and media.

[AvatarVecna]

There isn't really an argument to be had here, because everything comes down to what you, as DM, want to have in your setting.

That said, if you're going to turn down this character concept you really should have a better reason than what you've given so far. Stories about people who give up a chaotic, undisciplined, urban lifestyle in favor of a disciplined monastic lifestyle (and possibly even become martial artists) are as old as time and are rampant in literature and media.

And even that's ignoring any second-rate thugs who taught themselves to draw on their deepest reserves of physical endurance and strength through some sort of full-contact fighting sport (like boxing, wrestling, fight club, etc).

EDIT: Grue (Brian Laborn) from the web series Worm is a pretty good example of an Urchin background Shadow Monk.

EDIT 2: ...possibly with a warlock dip for the see in magic darkness.

[WickerNipple]

The ways a particular combination of race, class, background, and alignment can make sense are only limited by your imagination. There is nothing that can't make sense, if it's set up in the right context.

Exactly.

D&D is a game of imagination. Stopping someone from playing the concept they want to play cause you can't imagine it is a terrible sign.

It's not even that weird of a concept. "Talented orphan's life suddenly changes upon meeting a mysterious stranger who teaches them the art of _________."

[Shining Wrath]

A background is not always how a character learned their class. A background can be what the character did before they began training for their class.

In that case, a person raised as a street urchin, never knowing where they would sleep, never knowing where their next meal was coming from, might greatly desire order, regularity, and peace.

As a RL example, I knew a family that adopted a kid who'd grown up in an extremely dysfunctional home. This kid, from the age of 5 or 6, would go out, collect cans, turn the cans in for money, and buy a box of mac - n - cheese. Then he'd borrow milk and butter from the neighbors, and that was dinner. Every night.

He was the one who tried to get his mom to get up and go to work ... at age 6.

He was responsible for getting himself to school ... in first grade.

Believe it or not, this kid LOVED having a home where there were rules, where he was expected to do his homework, where there was dinner on the table every night and he had to help with dishes. Not that he never screwed up, he was still a kid, but he took to discipline and order like a fish takes to water.

[WickerNipple]

I'd also like to point out that Arya Stark is currently playing this character in front of a bajillion viewers.

[TrollCapAmerica]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXwVJJEL1Q

This is a classic

[xroads]

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background. He only builds characters using backgrounds and traits from the book. My player's idea is the character ran away from home, spent a couple years on the street, and then got picked up by a monk who took him to a monastery. It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits. The monk class seems to demand that the character spent formative years training in a monastery which conflicts with the idea of an Urchin background that is really sensitive to the urban heartbeat. Now I know I have the power to hand wave a lot of this and just let it be, but the idea seems like it would wreck verisimilitude a bit.

A street urchin that is taken in by master and taught martial arts and discipline in record time? Happens all the time in stories. Wouldn't doubt if there is a trope page dedicated to it.

Take Batman and Robin for example. One of the Robin's started off as a street urchin who was jacking the Batmobile's tires. Batman sees something in the kid and takes him under his wings. In a few short months, the new Robin is out there kicking bad guy butt.

[pwykersotz]

I disagree with Wicker and everyone else saying you're outright wrong for this position, I think that a mutual agreement needs to be reached to make game the best it can be. That said, this is really something that would come best from the player. If he chose this combo, he should probably have an idea of how he's willing to play it. I'd be curious to know how he's going to do it. It's easy to create reasons in a vacuum, but knowing what he's thinking is more valuable.

I also think you should try to allow the concept. Urchin turned monk, a poor monastery in the middle of a slum, a kind benefactor who regularly journeys into the city to feed the poor with fresh vegetables, all these things and more would make sense with the mechanics of City Secrets, and the world is full of proof that the circumstances of your birth don't necessarily affect who you will become.

[Chronos]

You only have one background, so you can't have both the urchin background and the monk background on the same character.

Wait, what's this? Monk is a class, not a background? Well, then, what's the issue?

Seriously, that's what your argument boils down to. If you argue that the background is incompatible because you have to be raised as a monk from birth, then that same argument would work against any background.

[2E Phoinex]

Alright, this has given me a lot more to consider on the matter. As one of you picked up on I've grown up with 2nd edition where class restrictions abound and it has left me with some inflexible habits.

I like the idea of an urban monk that was largely self taught more just because as he's described the character to me it seems like there are two different visions of the character: a guy who trained in a monastery of disciplined stereotypical monks, and the fellow who hordes bread crumbs and steals whenever he wants because of the trauma of his impoverished years on the street. The trouble was the player's handbook puts a lot of emphasis in the monk chapter on the relationship between the monk and his monastery.

However, there's been plenty of examples that his lack of discipline and monastic training don't have to contradict each other so I'll talk with him to see what vision he wants for the character and let it go from there.

I'm not overly concerned with "controlling the game" I've just seen plenty of players that come up with wacky character concepts and it doesn't always go over well when no one is really clear on why the character is so different. So thanks for the reassurance that we can make this work!

[draken50]

Edited: Just gonna get rid of all that then.

[coredump]

I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

I don't see a problem with you trying to make sure the background and class work together. Though I don't think it is needed in this case.

There is no reason to assume that an urchin could not be disciplined and have self control. I would imagine it was those exact qualities that caught the monk's attention. (I assume he doesn't bring every urchin to the monastery) He could have been organizing other urchins, or simply kept his hovel in good order. Perhaps he was known to be reliable for running errands or helping with chores (in trade for some bread)

Or it could be that the monk saw something, but the PCs nature made training a constant battle between the need for discipline and his tendency towards chaos...

[Safety Sword]

I'm sorry, this is abuse.

Arguments are down the hall.

This is getting hit in the head lessons, actually.

[CantigThimble]

Urchin only means they lived on the streets when they were younger, lets say ages 6-12 At which point they got themselves out of the gutter and into some kind of training. Or they trained themselves.

And an urchin druid could easily make sense, they lived at the city dump manipulating the vegetation. Or they befriended rats and wild dogs, feeling more in tune with them than with the humans in the city. Have a little imagination!

[CantigThimble]

This is getting hit in the head lessons, actually.

1d20+3

1d4+1

[mephnick]

I was expecting something like the absolutely mind-boggling crap I'd get in backgrounds to explain 3.5 multi-classes. Those I tossed away with extreme prejudice. This is pretty easy to justify, as others already have.

Hell, I think a spoiled rich kid would have way more trouble becoming a monk, but bruce wayne does alright.

[Yukitsu]

Hell, I think a spoiled rich kid would have way more trouble becoming a monk, but bruce wayne does alright.

Or, you know, Siddartha Buddha.

[AvatarVecna]

Urchin only means they lived on the streets when they were younger, lets say ages 6-12 At which point they got themselves out of the gutter and into some kind of training. Or they trained themselves.

And an urchin druid could easily make sense, they lived at the city dump manipulating the vegetation. Or they befriended rats and wild dogs, feeling more in tune with them than with the humans in the city. Have a little imagination!

Bug shaman: enemy-tested, Skitter-approved!

[Gnomes2169]

One of my players, a brilliant if eccentric fellow, has built a character that I am having a very hard time conceptualizing. This forum has a track record of getting me to reconsider my hardline restrictions, and I have no desire to just say "no" to creative character concepts so I am asking the playground to try and argue on his behalf.

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background. He only builds characters using backgrounds and traits from the book. My player's idea is the character ran away from home, spent a couple years on the street, and then got picked up by a monk who took him to a monastery. It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits. The monk class seems to demand that the character spent formative years training in a monastery which conflicts with the idea of an Urchin background that is really sensitive to the urban heartbeat. Now I know I have the power to hand wave a lot of this and just let it be, but the idea seems like it would wreck verisimilitude a bit.

Monks in 5e in no way are restricted by alignment. A monk can just as easily be a man who spent much of his life meditating in a monestary as they can be a wandering martial artist who studied their techniques under a solitary master, or who developed their own unique way of channeling ki through their body (say, through sheer force of will or desperation in dangerous situations). They are required to be Lawful just as much as they are required to be bald eunuchs who wear brown robes and exclusively practice karate. I would say kung-fu, but ever since watching the Marco-Polo Netflix series, I will never use that phrase to describe just the martial art.

Your player is even making it easier for you to justify it. He is having his character come from a monestary, where he presumably just picked things up faster than most people and managed to keep a few of his bad habits from living on the street. And honestly... Most non-clerics living in a monestary are probably orphans of some kind or other who had nowhere else to go. I'd say you should definitely let him go for it.


I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

I'd say that any background should work for any character. In your druid urchin example, for instance, the orphan druid could easily have fled into the slums, where his inner talents gave him a special connection to the rats, cats, wild dogs and other vermin of the city streets. He may not even know who his parton deity is (in most settings, nature dieties tend to empower those who help their cause, even if the mortal does not realize it, and there are plenty of examples of a god testing an ignorant person by granting them favors, and letting the mortal figure out who is granting them such miracles on their own). Perhaps a disguised druid found this small girl talking to rats in the slums, and brought her to the druid circle so that she could study and learn, and eventually become the druid PC she was "destined" to be.

Really, as long as they have plausible justification for it, I would allow any character any background, very, very few questions asked.


I'm sorry, this is abuse.

Arguments are down the hall.

Glorious.

[ChubbyRain]

You only have one background, so you can't have both the urchin background and the monk background on the same character.

Wait, what's this? Monk is a class, not a background? Well, then, what's the issue?

Seriously, that's what your argument boils down to. If you argue that the background is incompatible because you have to be raised as a monk from birth, then that same argument would work against any background.

This and Kung Fun hustle all get a big ol' +1

Just because, as a DM, you don't get something doesn't mean you should ban it. That is down right being a jackass.

Especially since it's all core options. The player isn't even trying to bring in splat (EE) or Homebrew!

Don't look at this as a negative thing. Creativity or playing differently should be encouraged and not snuffed out. Do you know how boring a fantasy game can get if everyone plays the same way and plays the same type of characters?

[Mr.Moron]

This and Kung Fun hustle all get a big ol' +1

Just because, as a DM, you don't get something doesn't mean you should ban it. That is down right being a jackass.



They really aren't. A GM can perhaps be narrow or shortsighted when it comes to "Getting" something but disallowing something because they don't get it is the only natural thing for them to do.

The integrity of the game world and presenting things the players can interact with and then resolving those actions is on the GM alone. They do need to get everything that's being brought to the table or they're not not going to be able to perform their role. At the very least they won't be able to enjoy it while performing it well.

It's one thing to say "Hey, this is pretty easy to parse through what's not to get?", which is about where this issue is. However any GM is well within their rights to disallow anything they don't get, it's not "being a jackass" it's just spending your time running a game you can understand and enjoy.


No GM has a gun to their players heads, running a game where you don't allow hermit monks, or monks in general, or any class but "Fighter" isn't being a jackass it's just running the game you want to run for whatever reason. "I don't understand how an urchin can be a monk" might be a reason that perhaps stems from being a bit unwilling to look outside the box, but that still doesn't make a GM a jerk wanting to run a game where Urchin's can't be monks.

If you don't like the GM's preferences, don't play in their game.

[Steampunkette]

My favorite Monk character is, and always will be, the Tavern Brawler.

Screw all this "Ki" nonsense and Flurry of Blows. My Tavern Brawlers have Moxie and Suckerpunches. And the reason she's immune to poisons? DWARVEN SPIRITS.

[CantigThimble]

My favorite Monk character is, and always will be, the Tavern Brawler.

Screw all this "Ki" nonsense and Flurry of Blows. My Tavern Brawlers have Moxie and Suckerpunches. And the reason she's immune to poisons? DWARVEN SPIRITS.

Mundane poisons are simply no match for the bubbling mass remaining at the bottom of your stomach through the last decade. Dwarves ale is good stuff.

[Dontdestroyme]

I never understood questions like this.

Where in the book does it say your background is what you have been doing literally up to the beginning of the campaign? It just means at some point you were an urchin or whatever and that was one chapter of your life, which left you with some skills.

[Shining Wrath]

I never understood questions like this.

Where in the book does it say your background is what you have been doing literally up to the beginning of the campaign? It just means at some point you were an urchin or whatever and that was one chapter of your life, which left you with some skills.

Right. A background can be where you learned your class skills. It can also be what you did prior to starting to learn your class skills.

You can be a criminal, have a life-changing encounter with an angel, and start learning the skills of a devotion paladin.

[Slipperychicken]

You can always make a custom background to incorporate elements of both street and temple life. Maybe take Acolyte, but replace insight and bonus languages with survival and sleight of hand.

[LordVonDerp]

One of my players, a brilliant if eccentric fellow, has built a character that I am having a very hard time conceptualizing. This forum has a track record of getting me to reconsider my hardline restrictions, and I have no desire to just say "no" to creative character concepts so I am asking the playground to try and argue on his behalf.

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background. He only builds characters using backgrounds and traits from the book. My player's idea is the character ran away from home, spent a couple years on the street, and then got picked up by a monk who took him to a monastery. It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits. The monk class seems to demand that the character spent formative years training in a monastery which conflicts with the idea of an Urchin background that is really sensitive to the urban heartbeat. Now I know I have the power to hand wave a lot of this and just let it be, but the idea seems like it would wreck verisimilitude a bit.

I suppose part of the issue comes down to a specific question: are some character classes incompatible with certain backgrounds? I think an Urchin Druid would be a troubling pairing for instance. Is this an inflexible and unreasonable position, or should I ask him to rework the character?

He seems to be trying to create this guy:
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Kai

So where's the problem?


As for urchin druid, go check out shadowrun, it has entire archetypes based on that.

[MustacheFart]

I just want to say such a monk would fit in perfectly at Bob's House of Fists.

Bit of context: In 3.5 I played in a buddies game what was originally intended to be a rather "joke" character. I had little thought into him other than his name was Bob and he was a ditch digger. He wasn't formally trained so he was just a very hearty fellow that would just punch stuff. That was just the beginning.

Several years later and Bob had quite the long list of accomplishments. Some of them are, in no particular order:

1) Had become Robert The Mighty.
2) Scored 2nd or 3rd place in the annual Donkey Pits tournament.
3) Won some property as a result of the tournament (a row house building)
4) Bought some more property at a yearly auction held around the tournament mentioned above. It was an old church with wine cellar plus a field.
5) Started a construction business using the row house as the office (I led business as I was the only one with any actual business knowledge being a ditch digger lol)
6) Found out that his long-lost family were cheese makers.
7) Set out to stop the Temple of Elemental Evil from enslaving the continent.
8) Wrecklessly Jumped through an unknown portal inside the Temple of Elemental Evil and was transported to the Plane of Fire where I was trapped.
9) Survived for months until I was rescued by my party and while there, with my party, destroyed the Fire Giant King.
10) Become Robert the Enlightened as a result of his otherworldly travel above.
11) Helped destroy the Temple Of Elemental Evil.
12) With my money/construction business I built a giant fighting school in the field next to the old church I bought called Bob's House of Fists.
13) Dedicated the church to worshipping a "Builder's" deity.
14) Years later, came back from travels due to dreaming about the return of The Temple of Elemental Evil.
15) Found out that my uncle Roberto (or brother I can't remember it's been years) was an evil cultist higher-up for the Temple of Elemental evil ~ the second time around ~
16) Learned that my House of Fists had been taken over by the cult and that they'd enslaved my son I had abandoned (oh yeah I think I saved/won a woman and married her but decided marriage wasn't for me and left) who was running the fighting school before the cult came.
17) Infiltrated my fighting school and by infiltrate I mean kick the door down and barge in. Learned that they were at least continuing my tradition of training any ragamuffin that wanted some discipline before they captured me.
18) Upon my rescue, regained control of my fighting school. Had the awkward "talks" with my son and estranged wife. Was really hoping she has passed by the time I returned lol.
19) by this time I owned much of the city and was THE construction business in town.
20) Entered the Temple of Elemental Evil a second time.
21) Found a weird portal/mirror object and despite being "enlightened" jumped through it arms out superman style this time (rather than walking thru)
22) Had one of my arms disintegrated.
23) Built myself a mechanical clockwork arm.
24) Went through another portal to another plane that was kind of a nexus for evil beings.
25) Earned an invitation to dinner at the ruler of the plane's keep.
26) had dinner with super evil people. Several of them avatars of evil deities.
27) Made friends with the new Fire Giant King of the Fire Plane.
28) Also approached and spoke with a little girl at the party who happened to be Demogorgon is disguise. Received her blessing for having such balls when everyone else avoided her lol.
29) Returned to the Temple of Elemental Evil with the help of the Fire Giant King.
30) The biggest accomplishment: The cult was attempting to resurrect a monster from the moon through sacrificing one of the more evil members of my party who selfishly/stupidly was wearing a necklace she looted in the temple. I did the only thing I could and jumped into the beam of light containing her, pushing her out of the light, sacrificing myself. I rolled a nat 20 on that roll. Will never forget it!

Since she was more evil while I was pretty well good, the ceremony failed, the moon cracked in half, and my character disappeared forever while the party fled to escape a piece of the moon that was crashing down toward the planet.

31) Over 100 years later the fighting school was still running strong, open to any wayward wannabe strong arm.

Only this time the church was dedicated to a new up and coming deity known only as The Enlightened One who was sort of a Kung Fu Jesus (my former character obviously).

My buddy published the adventure and I believe it's in there.

Anyway this was a super long drawn out bragging post to say that all types can be monks and it can make sense.

[LordVonDerp]

i just want to say such a monk would fit in perfectly at bob's house of fists.

Bit of context: In 3.5 i played in a buddies game what was originally intended to be a rather "joke" character. I had little thought into him other than his name was bob and he was a ditch digger. He wasn't formally trained so he was just a very hearty fellow that would just punch stuff. That was just the beginning.
...
My buddy published the adventure and i believe it's in there.

Anyway this was a super long drawn out bragging post to say that all types can be monks and it can make sense.

bravo, good sir!

[Occasional Sage]

My favorite Monk character is, and always will be, the Tavern Brawler.

Screw all this "Ki" nonsense and Flurry of Blows. My Tavern Brawlers have Moxie and Suckerpunches. And the reason she's immune to poisons? DWARVEN SPIRITS.

Hopefully, this Tavern Brawling Monk full of dwarven spirits is an elf.

Please say it's so!

[Troacctid]

Choosing a random class + background and synthesizing them into a coherent character is a great creative exercise. You should be able to do it with any combination. Gladiator Bard, College of Lore? He loves putting on a different show for the crowd every night, and practices his magic constantly to learn new techniques. Pirate Cleric, Light domain? He's the ship's navigator, and he venerates the stars that guide his course. Noble Barbarian, Path of the Berserker? He's not just any savage, he's the scion of a noble Viking Lord. Urchin Rogue? Okay, well...sometimes the random method lobs you a softball.

If it's too easy, add a random alignment and a random multiclass into the mix to really flex those creative muscles.

[YossarianLives]

Mundane poisons are simply no match for the bubbling mass remaining at the bottom of your stomach through the last decade. Dwarves ale is good stuff.
Dwarven brine: 50% alcohol, 50% salt.

[Submortimer]

i'm sorry, this is abuse.

Arguments are down the hall.

You vacuous, toffee-nosed, malodorous pervert!

[SouthpawSoldier]

Choosing a random class + background and synthesizing them into a coherent character is a great creative exercise. You should be able to do it with any combination. Gladiator Bard, College of Lore? He loves putting on a different show for the crowd every night, and practices his magic constantly to learn new techniques. Pirate Cleric, Light domain? He's the ship's navigator, and he venerates the stars that guide his course. Noble Barbarian, Path of the Berserker? He's not just any savage, he's the scion of a noble Viking Lord. Urchin Rogue? Okay, well...sometimes the random method lobs you a softball.

If it's too easy, add a random alignment and a random multiclass into the mix to really flex those creative muscles.

It's not just Background/Class combinations that are unlimited. Even with a given backstory, one can use multiple Backgrounds. Take my example backstory post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19261075&postcount=11) in a thread asking for good Hexblade background.


Misanthropic hermit. Spent his childhood as an only child from a wealthy merchant family who bankrupted themselves on his education. When they died, he chose to live on the edge of society, corresponding with other historians and philosophers by post.

You could use any of several Backgrounds to explain that backstory. All depends on what he studied as a youth, age when he chose solitude, his family background, etc. Noble, Guild, Hermit, Sage, Outlander, or Entertainer could all contribute for that character. Maybe even a blend of all 6. That same backstory could also be used for a Ranger (original recipient class) a Druid, a Knowledge Cleric, a Wizard; completely up to the player how they want to iron out the details.

In fact....this gives me an idea for a PbP game. Players choose their class, but roll randomly for Background options.

[goto124]

I'd say that any background should work for any character. In your druid urchin example, for instance, the orphan druid could easily have fled into the slums, where his inner talents gave him a special connection to the rats, cats, wild dogs and other vermin of the city streets.

You have no idea how many plants can grow in the cracks of the sheets, in the weirdest of nooks and crannies, etc.

Don't forget the birds. There's plenty of pigeons to go around. Heck, the druid could've asked a bird to poop on a noble's head.

I'll applaud the OP for deciding to ask other people to convince him. Many DMs won't even begin to accept alternative viewpoints.

[DarkEternal]

Also, always a possibility he was an urchin in the slums and he found a kindly old man who he tried to steal from, only that he found out that he was stealing from a martial arts master. Seeing the natural talents in the urchin, the old man takes him under his wing and trains him the art of breaking bones. There. Hell, the urchin background fits more than most for a monk.

[Steampunkette]

Mundane poisons are simply no match for the bubbling mass remaining at the bottom of your stomach through the last decade. Dwarves ale is good stuff.

This one understands. Hell yeah.


Hopefully, this Tavern Brawling Monk full of dwarven spirits is an elf.

Please say it's so!

Sometimes. Other times I've played a Half-Orc tavern brawler and Half-Elf. I talked the DM into letting me 'lose' effectiveness by moving the Wisdom-centric build requirements of Monk to Charisma, since she was more of a lout than a student of esoteric mysteries. Sure my Wisdom saves and awareness skills suffered for it. But if I'm playing a drunken sot who cracks skulls in a Tavern I kind of want her to be punch-drunk and inattentive.

Or just drunk and inattentive.

[Steampunkette]

For anyone who is, miraculously and painfully, unaware of why Kajorma is a vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert I provide this recording of ancient men who walked the world as giants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y


1d20+3

1d4+1

"WAH!"

[ekestrel]

Choosing a random class + background and synthesizing them into a coherent character is a great creative exercise. You should be able to do it with any combination. Gladiator Bard, College of Lore? He loves putting on a different show for the crowd every night, and practices his magic constantly to learn new techniques. Pirate Cleric, Light domain? He's the ship's navigator, and he venerates the stars that guide his course. Noble Barbarian, Path of the Berserker? He's not just any savage, he's the scion of a noble Viking Lord. Urchin Rogue? Okay, well...sometimes the random method lobs you a softball.

If it's too easy, add a random alignment and a random multiclass into the mix to really flex those creative muscles.

This is always great and fun. I like applying it to the game world, too! Gladiator Bard, College of Lore? Probably a part of a culture that venerates combat like the Romans, bets on their performance, and buy up tickets based on the promotion! A good bard=a good crowd=a good payday.

For an Urchin Monk, imagine a city where weapons are strictly disallowed. The only ones commonly used are those you can conceal or make under the nose of the guards. Possibly it's an autocratic city with uncorruptible guards and a stifling caste system. So, our Urchin Monk grew up in a street gang fighting for protection money in the seedier parts of town, but could only use a few weapons (explained by the monk weapon proficiencies). As such, Mr. Urchin Monk skirts the law, but could be a freedom fighter, exploited muscle, or an aspiring low-caste youngster.

Man, I think I like the idea of an Urchin Monk more than that of one stuck in a monastery. :smallsmile:

[LordVonDerp]

You vacuous, toffee-nosed, malodorous pervert!


I'm charging you under Section 21 of the Strange Sketch Act.

-Flying Derp of the Yard

[Capac Amaru]

The character is a Halfling Monk with the street urchin background.

It seems to me that the discipline required by the monk class conflicts with a large portion of the street urchin traits.


What on earth makes you think that? An urchin lives minute to minute, relying on finding and memorizing safe places to eat and sleep, avoiding guard patrols, drunks, rapists, slavers, etc.

Its not a joyous romp in the park. An undisciplined urchin is a dead urchin.

If you want an idea of how the character could work, read the Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss, but replace the magic college with martial arts/monastery.

[AvatarVecna]

I'm charging you under Section 21 of the Strange Sketch Act.

-Flying Derp of the Yard

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

...er, sorry, wrong sketch.

[LordVonDerp]

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

...er, sorry, wrong sketch.
And now... The larch.
The... Larch.

And now.... THE LARCH.

[AvatarVecna]

And now... The larch.
The... Larch.

And now.... THE LARCH.

There's a joke/pun here somewhere about the Ministry of Silly Talks, but I can't quite find the right words to express it. Ironic.

[Gnomes2169]

And now... The larch.
The... Larch.

And now.... THE LARCH.

And now for something completely different.

The larch.

[Occasional Sage]

I love me some Monty Python.

Think I'll just leave this here for others who do, too, so they can honor Monty Python (https://xkcd.com/16/).

[Safety Sword]

You're all saying it wrong.

It's Nu. NU. NUUUUUUUUUU!

[Kajorma]

For anyone who is, miraculously and painfully, unaware of why Kajorma is a vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert I provide this recording of ancient men who walked the world as giants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y



"WAH!"

Oh dear.
I seem to have derailed a thread. My apologies.
And for those of you who have now been educated by the above link, I sincerely hope that your day has been better for it.

[KorvinStarmast]

A few points for the OP, Mr 2E.

1. Let go of 2E if you are going to play 5E. Embrace the new thing.

2. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19261141&postcount=47

Read that post again, it has good things.

3. Encourage your players to blend background and class in ways that make sense, and for a bonus have them provide you with a short narrative on who this character is, and how his life came to change. In writing this short little story, your player will probably come up with better color and flavor as part of the creative process. He may even provide you hooks for later adventures, when someone from his past and he cross paths again. You get to make that linkage as GM.

Our current GM asked us to do that, and it has fleshed out the game world considerably. Lots of RP potential in there.

Empower your players.