Removing the music/poetic fluff from CRB bards

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

I always liked the bard chassis as a jack of all trades, a socialite and a spy par excellence. They're basically what I expect from competent rogues. My problem has always been that the core bard seems to be the most powerful option if you don't want to go Arcane Duelist. And all the abilities are centered around performances, the spells even have a vocal component forced upon them and some of the mechanically strongest tricks like the performance ending spells are deeply fluffed with music in mind.

Can you think of ways that keep the crunch working while removing the writer and singer fluff from bards? Basically what I want is a Dragon-Ageesque secret agent bard with support options, spells and some options to deal damage and perform combat maneuvers.

If there is a Nale-esque workaround with Sorcerer/Ninja/AT, it's welcome as well.

[Extra Anchovies]

If you're open to archetypes, consider the Archaeologist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/archaeologist). It's basically Indiana Jones.

Otherwise, you could refluff performance as archivist-style knowledge - instead of making their allies fight better out of bravery, they're periodically shouting out advice relevant to the foes at hand.

[Spore]

If you're open to archetypes, consider the Archaeologist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/archaeologist). It's basically Indiana Jones.

The main ability is weirdly written and I personally dislike the fact that its uses per day are incredibly limited (4+Cha is about 9 rounds on a bard with decent gear) and do not scale with the bard level. Other than that it screw with the general support niche of the bard although I would use Archaeologist as a Rogue substitue rather than a refluffed bard.


Otherwise, you could refluff performance as archivist-style knowledge - instead of making their allies fight better out of bravery, they're periodically shouting out advice relevant to the foes at hand.

That's cool and all but this feels incredibly bookish. Our groups have shown a distaste of our evangelist cleric's Sermonic performance because he does not shut up. Combine that with an attitude of Mr. Know-it-all but this solution is closer to what I had in mind.

Thanks for your entries. I'm happy to receive more opinions.

[Extra Anchovies]

The main ability is weirdly written and I personally dislike the fact that its uses per day are incredibly limited (4+Cha is about 9 rounds on a bard with decent gear) and do not scale with the bard level. Other than that it screw with the general support niche of the bard although I would use Archaeologist as a Rogue substitue rather than a refluffed bard.

There's a few tricks to get more out of your Archaeologist's Luck. First and foremost, Lingering Performance effectively triples how many rounds per day you can get out of it; just start it up again once every three rounds without ever maintaining it (this works because unlike standard performance, Archaeologist's Luck is a swift action to start). 12+3*Cha is definitely enough to get you through the day in most games. If that isn't enough Extra Performance is an effective increase of 18 rounds per day once you have Lingering Performance.

You are right that it's more of a rogue substitute. I'm still a big fan of it, but the inability to share your non-spell combat buff is a bit annoying.

[Geddy2112]

There are several bard archtypes that fit a non musical persona. The perform-dance(granting fly and acrobatics through versatile performance) and perform-act(bluff and disguise) are both great skills that fit a ninja/spy style of play and don't have a music or poetic aspect. The juggler, flame dancer, court bard, dervish dancer and dervish of dawn are all non musical. The dervish dancer is a major gish while the dervish of dawn is more like a battle cleric.

For your inspiration and other bardic performance abilities, you don't have to be singing or talking-dance and act mean showing off your sweet combat skills with whatever weapon you choose to wield. Use a whip to perform combat maneuvers from range, a shortbow for ranged attacks and a longsword and shield(scimitar if you go either dervish route) for melee.

Most arcane spells have verbal components too, that does not mean you have to sing them or play a musical instrument, just say the word or words and cast as normal.

[MyrPsychologist]

I really want to play around with the juggler archetype and have a bard focused on abusing wands, rods, and special weapons. Tri-wielding has to be good for something.

[Gurifu]

I'm with you. Bards are neat, but the "inspirational music" fluff is ridiculous.

No need for special rules, just declare that your "performance" is a <insert literally any sustained visible or audible effect>. "Each bardic performance has audible components, visual components, or both." That's the only stipulation. More strict DMs may require that you be able to produce whatever your performance is with the equipment you have on hand, rather than it being a special magical effect, but that's not in RAW, and even then, there are lots of options.

RAW viable "performances" include...
Glowing aura.
Visible halo.
Aura of shadow.
Rorschach's face from Watchmen.
Chanting.
A subtle rumbling sound, like distant thunder.
Martial flourishes.
Combat acrobatics.
A battle prayer.

[Hrugner]

Refluff it with it with style. Use perform "act" to do things in a way that is movie style showboating. Sure, you may take a -4 to reflex saves due to being unable to look at explosions, but I think it'd work out.

[Spore]

There are several bard archtypes that fit a non musical persona. The perform-dance(granting fly and acrobatics through versatile performance) and perform-act(bluff and disguise) are both great skills that fit a ninja/spy style of play and don't have a music or poetic aspect.

I should've been more clear. I don't want the character to be an entertainer of any sorts. So even using Versatile Performance in order to have charisma based Dex skills is ... stretching the fluff. Your typical modern day investigator doesn't get oratory lessons in order to check the criminals for bluffs, nor does a guitar player substitute performances for bluff:

"No officer, I was never even close to the dead person in question, even though I have his blood on me: But let me play you a gnarly riff in order to convince you!" [guitar solo]
"Damn, that solo was nice. You look totally innocent by the way"

What the heck, Paizo?


RAW viable "performances" include...
Glowing aura.
Visible halo.
Aura of shadow.
Rorschach's face from Watchmen.
Chanting.
A subtle rumbling sound, like distant thunder.
Martial flourishes.
Combat acrobatics.
A battle prayer.

This list is EXACTLY what I have been looking for. Inspiration through presence.

[Kantolin]

All groups I've played with don't use things along that example - they simply use the versatile performance ability as 'A bard can be good at several skills with fewer skill points' and call it a day.

(Although that is sufficiently hilarious that it nearly got me in trouble at work. I have to use that /specific/ example somewhere, heh)

But anyway, if you don't want to go with the commander schtick (that tends to be my default for 'serious bard'... or bards in general, actually), make it just magic. Cast 'spells' which augment people's power rather than any kind of music. Make it as visual or not as fits the concept. Be essentially a sorceror with a rapier.

[Extra Anchovies]

I should've been more clear. I don't want the character to be an entertainer of any sorts. So even using Versatile Performance in order to have charisma based Dex skills is ... stretching the fluff. Your typical modern day investigator doesn't get oratory lessons in order to check the criminals for bluffs, nor does a guitar player substitute performances for bluff:

They're not actually using their performance abilities in those situations; they're using things they learned in the process of acquiring their performance abilities. Some of them are more straightforward than others, e.g. Dance standing in for Acrobatics and Fly, while some of them are a bit of a stretch, such as Percussion influencing Handle Animal somehow, but most of them make sense. For example, an actor would be able to make a disguise seem more believable, an orator would be able to better make a convincing argument, and a guitarist would have plenty of experience telling convincing lies from all that lying about their talent.

[Arutema]

Can you think of ways that keep the crunch working while removing the writer and singer fluff from bards? Basically what I want is a Dragon-Ageesque secret agent bard with support options, spells and some options to deal damage and perform combat maneuvers.


Take Oratory as your perform skill. You're not singing or playing an instrument, you're just giving rousing and inspiring speeches.

[Clistenes]

Take Oratory as your perform skill. You're not singing or playing an instrument, you're just giving rousing and inspiring speeches.

Do this and refluff it as Truenaming. You are calling the true names of people and things around you when you use your powers on them. Your ranks in Oratory represent your ability to pronounce those weird, alien words.

[Spore]

and a guitarist would have plenty of experience telling convincing lies from all that lying about their talent.

Anyway, here's Wonderwall.

[Geddy2112]

I should've been more clear. I don't want the character to be an entertainer of any sorts. So even using Versatile Performance in order to have charisma based Dex skills is ... stretching the fluff.

Think of James Bond or Black Widow from the Avengers. Bond can talk his way out of a LOT of situations, so being trained in Oratory would make sense, despite the fact that he never gives rousing speeches or reads poetry aloud. Black Widow was trained in ballet, but how ofter is she dancing around for fun? Both have a fair amount of acting skills-not that they go and play the lead role in Macbeth, but that they can act the part of whatever role they need to play. A secret agent needs to be agile, know how to tell a lie, keep composure under pressure, wear a disguise, and make people their friend. People who act, dance, sing, tell stories etc are REALLY GOOD AT THIS because they do it ALL THE TIME. Your bard would have learned these skills somewhere, possibly from a dancer or actor or whatever, or maybe practiced these things etc to cross train, but is not there to entertain or inspire or perform.

As for how to make that a bardic performance? Inspire through leadership and acts of daring. Keep a straight face as a demon charges you down, move gracefully through battle and make it look easy. Be the best dressed most competent person in the room and carry it. You could be a flagbearer- carrying a flag in your off hand and simply standing with courage enough to hold it calmly as everything goes to hell in a handbasket. You inspire others because you can perform tasks under pressure easily where others would not be able to.

[Molosse]

So you want a Sandman?

Bard with a hint of Rogue.