The Momentum System

[Dionon]

I'm curious if anyone would like this. It's a system I created a while back (About 3 years ago now) It's based on "Momentum" which is an abstract form of rules light combat that starts at a target number, goes through dice rolls, and ends when one side reaches 100%.

I'd really like to know what people thing about this, and where I can improve.

The Momentum System (https://www.mediafire.com/?falqt1tgvjpr353)

[Dionon]

Just a friendly bump to keep this relevant.

[qazzquimby]

I know you're looking for general reviews and problem areas, but being linked to 40 pages of text to sift through isn't very fun for most people. It's not your fault, that's just why you probably won't get a lot of help this way.

I suggest writing a brief (but somewhat more conclusive than the current) summary, and point out areas you're unsure of.

Good work making your own system :smallsmile: That's a lot of energy.

[Dionon]

The basic premise of the system is a basically rules light, action packed way to do combat. It focuses around your Momentum; a scale moving from 1-100 that generally starts at 50 for even matches, but the GM can set it up in different ways depending on the difficulty of the encounter. It works by rolling a number of d6 dice (Based on your Experience Boosts; IE Level) and comparing that total to the total rolled by your opponent. The high roller adds the the difference to their momentum, the loser subtracts the difference from theirs. The winner of any combat is the one that reaches 100 first.

Its a five stat system, Power, Agility, Vitality, Wits and Persona

It's got a more Descriptive skill system, relying on the imagination for most things, and giving broad categories instead of hard numbers. It's also got attributes that are more like feats than not.

It's a 10 level system (But has rules to go up to 99 levels because the system completely breaks down if it reaches level 100)

Other than that, there isn't much to say. I'd like a way to speed up Social Combat really, as it's been brought to my attention that this system does it poorly...

Thank you for suggesting this quazzquimby, I didn't think of doing it till you posted.

[qazzquimby]

What is the connection between the combat and rolling the dice? Are all the maneuvers and actual hits abstracted out?

Also, while certainly neat, if the dice mechanic takes very long to resolve things, it may end up bogging the game down.

[Dionon]

Combat is meant to be descriptive and a bit drawn out, almost to Anime lengths. Basically you roll the dice, describe what you're doing in the fight, and the GM tells you whether your action succeeds or fails based on what you and your opponent roll.

So it works like this:

Jimmy the Dragoon wants to attack Jeremy the Necromancer. He announces this and they roll off. Being of equal "Level" they roll the same number of dice, and their Momentum gauge begins at 50.

Jimmy leaps into the air and attempts to come down on Jeremy with a spearhead. Jeremy tells the GM that he's getting the hell out of the way. Rolling (For this example they've got 5 Experience Boosts) 5d6 and adding applicable modifiers, Jeremy rolls a 29 on his defense and Jimmy, being a spear master rolls a 35.

So the GM describes the scene as best he can so that Jimmy comes down and nicks Jeremy as Jeremy steps out of the way. Jeremy subtracts 6 from his Momentum gauge (Making his Momentum 44) and Jimmy addds 6 to his Momentum gauge (Making his a 56).

The combat continues till one of them reaches 100.

It's honestly meant for anime-esque style fights, where alot of stuff can happen and probably will happen in the battle as backdrop. If Jimmy said he was going to throw a large rock instead of leaping into the air, he would be able too as long as he had a high enough Strength. If Jeremy wanted to subtitute himself with a minion instead of just stepping back, he could have. It's ALL Description based.

Also, the document is very much not finished, it's lacking a key element. Spellcasting. How I'm going to handle that is pretty much each spell would have it's own difficulty, with lower level spells having low difficutly, and the highest tier being almost impossible to cast... I've just got almost no feedback on the actual system so far, so I came here.

[NichG]

My feeling is that you need something so that this doesn't just boil down to 'generate a particular probability distribution through a fixed procedure'. Especially for things like 'climbing a cliff', this seems to be excessively tedious to play out.

Instead I'd say, is there some way you can focus on the implication of momentum as something you carry with you even after a task is done?

So for example, lets say we divide things into two levels of abstraction. The fine-grained level is things like specific skill rolls or overcoming specific obstacles. The coarse-grained level is your progress towards the overall goal of the session. At the same time, your opposition also has an overall goal (to wear you out, force you back, accomplish something else, etc).

So in this framework, each particular obstacle along the way would have an associated Staging Rank. This basically states how closely related the obstacle is to your end-goal. Whenever you get past an obstacle with a Staging Rank higher than the highest obstacle you'd previously overcome, you gain a boost to your Momentum. Whenever you fail against any obstacle (higher stage or not), you lose some Momentum. Based on your current Momentum, you gain access to better and better abilities (or even just bonuses).

That's the kind of thing I imagined based on your initial post, anyhow.

[Dionon]

Could do something like that. The way it works currently, is that the more difficult the situation, the lower your Momentum begins. If it's an elementary task, your Momentum begins at 95. One good roll and you've accomplished your task. If it's technically impossible, (Like climbing a greased unknotted rope in a downpour) your momentum begins at 5. One BAD roll and you've failed.

I'll have to play around with it a little and see if I can do something with your suggestion.

[NichG]

Could do something like that. The way it works currently, is that the more difficult the situation, the lower your Momentum begins. If it's an elementary task, your Momentum begins at 95. One good roll and you've accomplished your task. If it's technically impossible, (Like climbing a greased unknotted rope in a downpour) your momentum begins at 5. One BAD roll and you've failed.

Yeah, I understand that, but the issue is that there's no additional decisions being made between rolls on either side. So the entire process can be summed up by rolling on a probability table.

[Dionon]

That makes sense... I can always tie some decisions into rising Momentum... Maybe you gain can gain certain bonuses at certain levels of Momentum... I don't know. Like I said I have to play about the system to make sure it still functions within the confines of the way it was intended. Thanks.

[Dionon]

How's this sound?

Effects of Momentum on Combat
When engaged in combat, your momentum grants you bonus ability bonuses based on your momentum total reached by rolling. This can push your abilities above 10, but not higher than twice your base ability.

Momentum Level
0% - 0
10% - 0
20% - 0
30% - 0
40% - 1
50% - 3
60% - 5
70% - 7
80% - 9
90% - 11
100% - Win

You must choose which statistic to place your statistic bonuses to from high momentum. You may choose to split your Momentum bonuses to multiple statistics by lowering one and raising another

Example: Jeremy the Necromancer is in the 80th percentile versus Jimmy the Dragoon who's in the 50th Percentile. Jeremy has 9 points to distribute to his statistics while Jimmy has 3. They can place them all in one, or split them up among the Statistics.

The addition of the statistics has an immediate effect on the game, as they have an immediate effect on your skill rolls.

Other Effects of Momentum on Combat
While you hit each 25th percentile by rolling, you gain a bonus Attribute chosen at that time from the Physical or Mental trees. Alternatively, you may choose to gain a basic item for free by “Having it all along” when you hit each 25th percentile. A basic item is defined as anything with a +2 or +5 bonus without any special bonuses or abilities.

Example: Jeremy the Necromancer has hit the 50th percentile by rolling. He chooses to gain a +2 Sword. When he reaches the 75th percentile, he chooses Skill Training: Weapon Attack as an attribute to gain the ability to be better with said sword.

On the Fly Techniques
Another Alternative when you hit each 25th percentile is the creation of an on the fly technique. Creating this technique is different than other created techniques. The creation of this technique only grants the bonus of a technique and not the penalty.

Example: Jimmy the Dragoon has hit the 50th percentile by rolling. He chooses, instead of gaining an item or attribute, to gain a technique called Dragon Rush which grants him a bonus equal to his Wits (+1) to his Weapon Attack rolls. It might not be much, but it might turn the tide of the battle.

[NichG]

That's getting better. There's still this thing where all of those gains translate into +X on die rolls, and if there's an obvious type of die roll that you're doing (or if you're locked into one), then there is likely a single optimal pattern of spending the bonuses that you should always do no matter what.

[Dionon]

Alright. So what else do you think I should do?

[NichG]

So this may not suit the level of abstractness you want for the system, but here's some ideas for how you could spend momentum, roughly based on your scale (so you don't lose momentum this way, but you can only use one of these per 25% interval or something like that):

- Fight to the Death: This is the last fight between you and your opponent. You will not let them flee, not let them surrender. Only one side will survive this fight, no matter what. Both sides are blocked from fleeing, and should the fight be interrupted by external force, both participants gain a +20% initial momentum bonus against that external force and against your opponent should you meet again. These stack.

- Changing Grounds: You change the nature of the fight, causing an unexpected demand on the opponent's skills. Until countered, your opponent's combat rolls use an alternate attribute of your choice.

- Up the Ante: You may choose a goal or objective that has previously been unrelated to the outcome of this fight and attach it to the outcome. This must be something either at hand or within your control or your opponent's control. For example, you may guarantee that if your opponent loses, they will give you the information you seek.

- Environmental Damage: When you cross this momentum threshold, you may give your attacks the ability to create increasing damage to the environment. Each attack you make from here out has the effect of increasing the level of damage to the local area: Intact -> Scuffed (Cosmetic only) -> Damaged (Impaired function, requires repair) -> Broken (Non-functional until repaired) -> Ruined (Non-functional until rebuilt)

- Double-Down: You accelerate the pace of the battle. All momentum gains or losses on either side are doubled.

- Cavalry Call: Whenever your side would gain momentum, gain an extra point of momentum per ally you have on the field.

- Crippling Strike: You make a particularly nasty strike designed to undermine your opponent's ability to participate in future combats. You may lose, but perhaps their next enemy will win. If you use this ability, your opponent suffers a -25 point penalty to start in their next combat.

- Counter Surge: Negate any persistent status effects on the participants and on the battle, including e.g. Changing Grounds, Environmental Damage, Cavalry Call, and Double-Down. This specifically does not negate Crippling Strike.

[Dionon]

So this may not suit the level of abstractness you want for the system, but here's some ideas for how you could spend momentum, roughly based on your scale (so you don't lose momentum this way, but you can only use one of these per 25% interval or something like that):

- Fight to the Death: This is the last fight between you and your opponent. You will not let them flee, not let them surrender. Only one side will survive this fight, no matter what. Both sides are blocked from fleeing, and should the fight be interrupted by external force, both participants gain a +20% initial momentum bonus against that external force and against your opponent should you meet again. These stack.

- Changing Grounds: You change the nature of the fight, causing an unexpected demand on the opponent's skills. Until countered, your opponent's combat rolls use an alternate attribute of your choice.

- Up the Ante: You may choose a goal or objective that has previously been unrelated to the outcome of this fight and attach it to the outcome. This must be something either at hand or within your control or your opponent's control. For example, you may guarantee that if your opponent loses, they will give you the information you seek.

- Environmental Damage: When you cross this momentum threshold, you may give your attacks the ability to create increasing damage to the environment. Each attack you make from here out has the effect of increasing the level of damage to the local area: Intact -> Scuffed (Cosmetic only) -> Damaged (Impaired function, requires repair) -> Broken (Non-functional until repaired) -> Ruined (Non-functional until rebuilt)

- Double-Down: You accelerate the pace of the battle. All momentum gains or losses on either side are doubled.

- Cavalry Call: Whenever your side would gain momentum, gain an extra point of momentum per ally you have on the field.

- Crippling Strike: You make a particularly nasty strike designed to undermine your opponent's ability to participate in future combats. You may lose, but perhaps their next enemy will win. If you use this ability, your opponent suffers a -25 point penalty to start in their next combat.

- Counter Surge: Negate any persistent status effects on the participants and on the battle, including e.g. Changing Grounds, Environmental Damage, Cavalry Call, and Double-Down. This specifically does not negate Crippling Strike.

All of those are awesome, and I think I'm going to edit them a little and use them with your permission. I say edit because some of them may have to be touched up to meet the system. Like the Environmental Damage one should be a little closer (Maybe every 20%) because it's rare that you start with low momentum unless the fight is supposed to be hard or worse.

Also, like I was talking about in the beginning, how would people speed up Social Rolls (One of the examples brought to my attention was two players arguing over Pizza Toppings turning into a 3 hour adventure in dice rolling) I'd honestly like a way to speed up the Social aspect of the game without ruining the feel of the system...

[NichG]

All of those are awesome, and I think I'm going to edit them a little and use them with your permission. I say edit because some of them may have to be touched up to meet the system. Like the Environmental Damage one should be a little closer (Maybe every 20%) because it's rare that you start with low momentum unless the fight is supposed to be hard or worse.

Sure, go ahead and use them!



Also, like I was talking about in the beginning, how would people speed up Social Rolls (One of the examples brought to my attention was two players arguing over Pizza Toppings turning into a 3 hour adventure in dice rolling) I'd honestly like a way to speed up the Social aspect of the game without ruining the feel of the system...

I think basically you can't use the momentum mechanic for every single thing. It has to be reserved for things that are (ahem) 'momentous'. You should only use it when there's both a significant branching of the plot based on outcome and an active agent pushing back against the PCs and trying to prevent their success or succeed in something dangerous to the PCs.

Otherwise, my taste would be to have a flat fallback. That is to say, if it isn't important, PCs automatically succeed on any task where they'd start above, say, 40%, and otherwise automatically fail (when nothing important is on the line, you just can't bring your best effort). Which may lead to funny meta stuff like 'okay, this wall is slightly too hard to climb as a stealth mission, so we need to alert the defenders at the top of the wall so that they try to kill us as we climb...', but then again that kind of thing makes for fun post-game stories, so ymmv.

Basically, your core resolution mechanic takes a long time, so you have to be very spare about applying it. Use it only when absolutely necessary and when it's covering a fairly complex interaction. E.g. 'this would take more than 15 dice rolls to resolve in D&D' kinds of things.

Edit: One particular gimmick I like for social things is the idea that in social situations, anyone can always walk away - its the stuff that is placed on the line and the potential to force others to place things on the line that makes people commit to continuing the interaction. So the idea would be to have a lot of escalation maneuvers as you gain momentum that add increasing cost for withdrawing, but which provide the option to surrender immediately when they're used, and which cut both ways (using the maneuver also obligates the user to risk something). Its unlikely that people would risk, say, their reputation over a choice in pizza toppings. So you'd have lots of social encounters resolved before the ticker got to 100% just because if it isn't that important, people will just withdraw when pushed.

[Dionon]

Alright, I place the special maneuvers in the book, but I made it so that each one cost you a bit of momentum (From 10 - 50 depending on Maneuver). On Social Rolls, I was rereading everything, and I realize that I have a clause in the book that if it's not life or death, don't roll the dice.. I might have to clarify this a bit, maybe put in a Rule Three, but I'll have to work on that later.