Shield Master questions for those who have used it

[Socko525]

Do you like it?
Was it worth the potential other feat/ASI?
If you've played using it in Rise of Tiamat, did you use it often/at all?

I'm playing a sword and board OotA paladin and we just hit level 10. I know that in the next game or so we're going to hit level 12 so I'm looking at my options. Personally I'm more of a fan of feats than ASI's as I like their flavor and a lot of the time they allow you to do really cool things.

I've basically become the guy keeping the team on track and the one leading most of the time (Outlander background, auras, Alert feat taken at level 4, etc) so more often then not when there's a trap/spell/dragon breath it ends up hitting me first.

My Dex is only a 12, but my Cha is 20 (+2 at level 8) so I'm getting that +5 to all my saves, and with the OotA aura, Shield Master could really help me mitigate a lot of damage.


So in my position playing through Rise of Tiamat, would you take Shield Master at level 12 or take something else?

[meltodowno]

Shield master is strong for a sword and boarder, but not necessarily for the reason you seem to be thinking.

- AC to saves is pretty good
- effectively evasion as a reaction
- but the best bit is the bonus action shove. If successful you knock them prone, giving you and any allies attacking in melee advantage on attacks against the target until they stand up.

In a melee heavy party I was in, we had a one guy shoving bad guys over whilst everyone else beat them down with flurries of attacks (add in the War domain cleric casting a bless, and pretty much every attack was landing without fail).

You mileage may vary depending how ranged attack heavy your party is, but that shove can be a powerful buff to DPR.

[Giant2005]

It is incredible and I don't even think there is any real competition for it in regards to being declared the best feat in the game.
People rave about the likes of GWM but a 2D6 weapon with GWF and GWM with 4 attacks inflicts 43.666666 DPR against an AC as low as 18. A 1D8 weapon with Duelist and Shield Master under those same conditions inflicts 43.615 damage and significantly boosts the damage of the rest of the party in doing so. It also has some serious defensive benefits by adding +2 to AC and all of that Dex save goodness.
There really is nothing like it - top tier damage as well as top tier defenses. Although it loses all of that offensive value if your team is already rendering your enemy prone with some reliability (Such as having an Open Fist Monk in the midst).

[goto124]

What does the feat do? No need exact words (against board rules anyway), but I can't seem to find the feat anywhere. Thanks!

[Giant2005]

I can't seem to find the feat anywhere. Thanks!
It isn't hard to find - it is on the last page of the Feats section (Page 170 of the PHB).

[goto124]

I have only access to the free online PDF from the official website, and it has only 115 pages. So someone saying what the feat does would be very helpful!

[meltodowno]

- AC to saves is pretty good
- effectively evasion as a reaction
- but the best bit is the bonus action shove. If successful you knock them prone, giving you and any allies attacking in melee advantage on attacks against the target until they stand up.


There isn't much more I can say without jumping into copyright territory.

[Giant2005]

I have only access to the free online PDF from the official website, and it has only 115 pages. So someone saying what the feat does would be very helpful!

1. +Shield AC modifier to Dex saves.
2. Not quite evasion but close enough.
3. Use a bonus action to push an enemy within 5'.

[Socko525]

What does the feat do? No need exact words (against board rules anyway), but I can't seem to find the feat anywhere. Thanks!

Edit: Thanks Giant2005

I realize that the bonus to dex saves that only target you may or may not be the most useful of things, but I figured it's worth mentioning that I acquired an Arrow-Catching Shield during our play through of HotDQ. So if the attack is a ranged attack that allows a dex save and only targets me, would I then have a +4 to my dex save?

And since it came up, my party is an evocation wizard, tempest cleric, battle-master fighter and fiend warlock/valor bard. Although most of our fights do seem to take place in melee range, so shoving a creature back 10 feet to allow the caster to not have disadvantage would also be useful.

[ChubbyRain]

Vuman Rogue 5 "The Cunning Knight"

Moderately Armored
Shield Master

Str: 16
Dex: 14
(+ con & wis / - Int & cha)

AC: 18 (14+2 Dex+2Shield)

Expertise in athletics

Absolute BEAST is combat. Athletics expertise means I don't need to bump my strength right away then when I knock an enemy down? Yeah, advantage helps not only to keep my attack modifier relevant but gives me sneak attack.

Will I run into things I can't knock down? Sure. But at level 8 and 10 I'll boost my strength to 18 and then 20 and can still gain sneak attack by wading into melee. If I can't knock something down (size or multileg) then I can always get away by using cunning action.

Also I don't know how many times Move + Dash (BA) + Dodge (remember 18 AC thanks to a shield) has saved my PC or another person's PC (I'll be blocking an enemy from them).

Oh and since, apparently, you can use the knock down before you attack the value just goes up.

[Symphony]

Will I run into things I can't knock down? Sure. But at level 8 and 10 I'll boost my strength to 18 and then 20 and can still gain sneak attack by wading into melee. If I can't knock something down (size or multileg) then I can always get away by using cunning action.

Size is the only qualifier listed in the Player's Handbook, btw.

[ChubbyRain]

Size is the only qualifier listed in the Player's Handbook, btw.

DMs can (really, they probably should even if it isn't in the monster stat block) give multileg creatures advantage on their athletics/acrobatics check to resist being knocked down.

Could potentially stop my shove.

[hymer]

DMs can (really, they probably should even if it isn't in the monster stat block) give multileg creatures advantage on their athletics/acrobatics check to resist being knocked down.

Could potentially stop my shove.

Goats get advantage on dex and strength saves to avoid getting knocked down ('Surefooted' IIRC). It's a pretty weird ability, come to think of it, as it helps nothing against shoves (as it's not a saving throw to resist a shove). But it does help making their save against spells that deal damage, if they also have a knockdown rider (like Earth Tremor).
As a DM, I'd just give goats advantage to every check to avoid getting knocked down, but then I'm notoriously pro-goat.

[holygroundj]

wouldn't you be smart enough, as a shield master, to know that you would just push a different area in order to knock someone over?

like instead of shoving them backwards, maybe almost upwards in order to knock them prone?

just seeing a reason why multileg wouldn't give advantage.

[SharkForce]

It is incredible and I don't even think there is any real competition for it in regards to being declared the best feat in the game.
People rave about the likes of GWM but a 2D6 weapon with GWF and GWM with 4 attacks inflicts 43.666666 DPR against an AC as low as 18. A 1D8 weapon with Duelist and Shield Master under those same conditions inflicts 43.615 damage and significantly boosts the damage of the rest of the party in doing so. It also has some serious defensive benefits by adding +2 to AC and all of that Dex save goodness.
There really is nothing like it - top tier damage as well as top tier defenses. Although it loses all of that offensive value if your team is already rendering your enemy prone with some reliability (Such as having an Open Fist Monk in the midst).

probably has something to do with most of the builds that use polearm mastery being battlemasters (can knock prone on a regular action at the same time as dealing extra damage with maneuver) and barbarians (already get advantage on attacks anyways).

[coredump]

DMs can (really, they probably should even if it isn't in the monster stat block) give multileg creatures advantage on their athletics/acrobatics check to resist being knocked down.

Could potentially stop my shove.
I think you can knock a snake prone, as well as a Naga..... Yeah, doesn't make sense to me either...

[ChubbyRain]

I think you can knock a snake prone, as well as a Naga..... Yeah, doesn't make sense to me either...

No, that makes sense, snakes and more specific Naga, would need to be in striking position to attack normally. When you knock them prone, you knock them flat down, upside down, or off balance. Or whatever.

Not prone snake

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/26/article-0-0F471D3600000578-445_468x286.jpg

Prone snake

http://www.ohio.edu/people/brune/ohio-14/hognose_25may14_2b.jpg

Snakes and naga would also get advantage against being knocked prone.

But a shield master may or may not know what they can't knock down or whatever unless they are trained in like Animal Handling or Survival or Nature.

[Aurthur]

I just love the grapple then bonus action shove prone... glorious. 0 movement allowed and they have to break the hold then can't move until their next turn. :)

[ChubbyRain]

I just love the grapple then bonus action shove prone... glorious. 0 movement allowed and they have to break the hold then can't move until their next turn. :)

Tavern Brawler + Shield + Shield Master = Enemies are gonna have a bad time.

[Troacctid]

I've played literally two encounters, at level 1, with a Fighter using Shield Mastery as her human bonus feat, and I'm already a big fan. It gives you a lot of extra tactical options.

Attack, then knock an enemy prone for free, giving all your melee buddies advantage against them. Nice.
Grapple the enemy and shove them prone, effectively pinning them so they can't stand up. Pretty effective lockdown tactic, especially if you're a Rogue and/or Barbarian to boost your Athletics check.
Attack, then knock an enemy back for free, putting them in a less favorable position. This is surprisingly relevant. In the span of only two encounters, I've already used it to knock one enemy into a pool of water, and another enemy out of cover to make him an easier target for our ranged attackers.
The fact that you can shove a target other than the one you just attacked, and even move around to get to a new position before shoving, is definitely a big help. In both of my examples for the third option, I was shoving one kobold after having used my attack to kill another. And we've been playing with the shove working after the attack--if you can shove before the attack, that's just, I mean, that's great. Spending a bonus action to get advantage on all your melee attacks? That's like a no-brainer. Wow.

Being efficient with your actions and getting maximum value out of your turn is pretty sweet.

I guess the bonus to Dex saves and the semi-Evasion are nice perks too. Not the main draw, but they're nice.


Tavern Brawler + Shield + Shield Master = Enemies are gonna have a bad time.

Tavern Brawler and Shield Master both use your bonus action, so they're not the greatest combo.

[Slipperychicken]

Tavern Brawler and Shield Master both use your bonus action, so they're not the greatest combo.

First round: Attack with improvised weapon (shield?) or unarmed strike, grapple
Second round: Shove prone, Attack with advantage
Subsequent Rounds: Enemy has a very bad time. He can't move until he stands up, he can't stand up until he breaks your grapple, and until he stands up, he has disadvantage on attacks while melee attacks against him have advantage.

It means you don't have to sacrifice attacks to get people grappled or prone. And it also means you don't have to sacrifice attacks to impose those conditions again if they manage to break out.

[ChubbyRain]

First round: Attack with improvised weapon (shield?) or unarmed strike, grapple
Second round: Shove prone, Attack with advantage
Subsequent Rounds: Enemy has a very bad time. He can't move until he stands up, he can't stand up until he breaks your grapple, and until he stands up, he has disadvantage on attacks while melee attacks against him have advantage.

It means you don't have to sacrifice attacks to get people grappled or prone. And it also means you don't have to sacrifice attacks to impose those conditions again if they manage to break out.

Yeah this. Beat the bugger with your shield, you get to keep the AC even if you use it as a weapon.

Also note that prone targets have disadvantage on Dex saving throws.

So not only does the melee types love you but your casters will as well.

Lightning Bolt? Yes.

[Talyn]

I'll jump in and say my tank-and-buff specialist paladin LOVES Shield Mastery. Full disclosure: in six levels of being the primary tank, I've never actually used the "reaction for semi-Evasion," though, since I save my reactions for interposing or casting spells, and our DM doesn't throw very many blasty casters at us.

+2 to Dexterity saves at Level 1, shoring up my worst save? Yes please! Get an enchanted shield if you can, any plusses which boost the shield's AC bonus boost our Dexterity save as well.

The knockdown attack has surprising synergy with mounted combat, too - get on a Warhorse, knock your enemy prone, and suddenly your warhorse gets two surprisingly hard-hitting Trample attacks on your enemy. Sure, the horse's attack bonus is crap, but with Advantage (melee attack against a prone foe), my horse is still hitting more often than he misses at Level 6. The freaking horse out-damages me in some combats!

[Mellack]

Oh and since, apparently, you can use the knock down before you attack the value just goes up.

Can somebody point me to a thread or a ruling on that? It would be awesome, but since you have to take the attack action to get it, wouldn't it be after you swing? Or can it between swings if you get extra attacks? I am considering this feat on my paladin, and something to show my DM would be nice.

[Slipperychicken]

The knockdown attack has surprising synergy with mounted combat, too - get on a Warhorse, knock your enemy prone, and suddenly your warhorse gets two surprisingly hard-hitting Trample attacks on your enemy. Sure, the horse's attack bonus is crap, but with Advantage (melee attack against a prone foe), my horse is still hitting more often than he misses at Level 6. The freaking horse out-damages me in some combats!

Getting trampled by a horse is no joke, especially a warhorse. Those things are huge, heavy, and they have some strong legs too.

[ChubbyRain]

Can somebody point me to a thread or a ruling on that? It would be awesome, but since you have to take the attack action to get it, wouldn't it be after you swing? Or can it between swings if you get extra attacks? I am considering this feat on my paladin, and something to show my DM would be nice.

Crawford tweeted it out. Sage advice has it somewhere I think.

Essentially, from what I can tell, the feat uses wording from when bonus actions had to happen after an action or all had some sort of trigger. However they took that restriction out at some point but then did the very wotc professional thing and forgot to edit/update their own rules.

[Slipperychicken]

Crawford tweeted it out. Sage advice has it somewhere I think.

Essentially, from what I can tell, the feat uses wording from when bonus actions had to happen after an action or all had some sort of trigger. However they took that restriction out at some point but then did the very wotc professional thing and forgot to edit/update their own rules.

Here's the tweet (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557816721810403329).


As with most bonus actions, you choose the timing, so the Shield Master shove can come before or after the Attack action.

Also, I think someone's compiling all the developers' rules-tweets about 5e. I forgot where that was, though.

[ChubbyRain]

Here's the tweet (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557816721810403329).



Also, I think someone's compiling all the developers' rules-tweets about 5e. I forgot where that was, though.

I thought I saw a posting on wotc forums about compiling rulings and stuff. Not sure though.

Also, technically, still not RAW so if you have a RAW-Focused DM this may not fly.

There is a timing listed in the feat after all, just like how the monk's martial arts/flurry has a timing.

*shrug*

[Mellack]

Thank you very much.

[Alerad]

Thanks, this is useful to know.

So basically taking the Attack action doesn't mean you have to immediately resolve it, it gives you one attack (+extra if you have) for the turn and allows you to take bonus action before the actual attack (shove or grapple for Shield Master/Tavern Brawler)?

So your character carries nothing but a shield which can also be used as an improvised weapon? Very much Dark Souls style, I like it :smallsmile:

[Troacctid]

Hey, if you use a shield as an improvised weapon, can you take the Dual Wielder feat to get an extra +1 AC and use two-weapon fighting with your shield? Cuz that seems kinda nifty.

[ChubbyRain]

Hey, if you use a shield as an improvised weapon, can you take the Dual Wielder feat to get an extra +1 AC and use two-weapon fighting with your shield? Cuz that seems kinda nifty.

As far as I know, yes, as you don't lose the shield benefit while using it as a weapon.

Grab the defensive style (must be in armor) for another +1.

+4 AC all together is quite nice.

Edit

Plate: 18 + 2 (shield) + 1 ( twf) + 1 (defensive style) + 5 (shield spell)

22 base +5 as a reaction

Does shiwld of faith stack?

[JNAProductions]

Shield of Faith stacks with anything except itself.

Not sure about shiwld of faith, though. :P

Also, use the Mariner Style combined with Barbarian's Unarmored. 10 base+5 Dex+7 Con+2 Shield+1 Style+1 DW+2 Shield of Faith+5 Shield for 28 (33) AC.

[Giant2005]

Shield of Faith stacks with anything except itself.

Not sure about shiwld of faith, though. :P

Also, use the Mariner Style combined with Barbarian's Unarmored. 10 base+5 Dex+7 Con+2 Shield+1 Style+1 DW+2 Shield of Faith+5 Shield for 28 (33) AC.

You can't be a level 20 Barbarian as well as have a Fighting Style.

[JNAProductions]

Woop,s you're right.

Also, use the Mariner Style combined with Barbarian's Unarmored. 10 base+5 Dex+5 Con+2 Shield+1 Style+1 DW+2 Shield of Faith+5 Shield for 26 (31) AC.

Adjusted.

[coredump]

There is a distinction between the Attack Action and attacking. You must take the Attack Action, then you are free to use the Bonus Action to Shove, then you can attack.

[ChubbyRain]

Woop,s you're right.

Also, use the Mariner Style combined with Barbarian's Unarmored. 10 base+5 Dex+5 Con+2 Shield+1 Style+1 DW+2 Shield of Faith+5 Shield for 26 (31) AC.

Adjusted.

10+ 5 Dex + 5 Con Barbarian + Champion Fighter (+1 Mariner + 1 Defensive) + 2 Shield + 1 twf + 2 Shield Of faith + 5 shield...

27 (32)

If we are going to do this...

Be a gnome barbarian 2/fighter 10/ paladin of ancients 8

Mr. Defense

[JNAProductions]

Can't have both Defensive and Unarmored. one requires armor, the other prohibits it.

[ChubbyRain]

Can't have both Defensive and Unarmored. one requires armor, the other prohibits it.

Unarmored works with shields, I'm guessing defensive doesn't work with shields? Wait... Isn't shields still considered armor? It is in the armor table and stuff.

[coredump]

Unarmored works with shields, I'm guessing defensive doesn't work with shields? Wait... Isn't shields still considered armor? It is in the armor table and stuff.

It is profoundly unclear. There are a number of things in the PHB that indicate that shields are considered armor, and a number of things that indicate they are not armor.

[Battlebooze]

I haven't used it, but the fighter in my party does. I'd say it's close to overpowered as written, very very strong. I think it would be strong with just bonus action knockdown effect, let along the save goodies.

The only downside is, the fighter keeps knocking down enemies so my Lore bard has disadvantage with his ranged cantrip, forcing me to use my insults. Oh well.

[coredump]

I haven't used it, but the fighter in my party does. I'd say it's close to overpowered as written, very very strong. I think it would be strong with just bonus action knockdown effect, let along the save goodies.

The only downside is, the fighter keeps knocking down enemies so my Lore bard has disadvantage with his ranged cantrip, forcing me to use my insults. Oh well.Well... if he keeps knocking him down, you could run up and hit him in melee (spell or weapon) with advantage. You could even move away again if you wanted to.

[ChubbyRain]

I haven't used it, but the fighter in my party does. I'd say it's close to overpowered as written, very very strong. I think it would be strong with just bonus action knockdown effect, let along the save goodies.

The only downside is, the fighter keeps knocking down enemies so my Lore bard has disadvantage with his ranged cantrip, forcing me to use my insults. Oh well.

This is less a problem with shield master and more a problem with y'all team work.

Some solutions.


If the fighter goes before the creature, hold your action till the creature stands up on their turn.

Tell the fighter to hold after your action. Then you hit them with your attack, the fighter goes in and knocks them down, and then whomever else is on your team doesn their thing.

Grab a cantrip that has a save but does better damage. Sacred Flame or Frostbite could be cool.

[Xetheral]

If the fighter goes before the creature, hold your action till the creature stands up on their turn.

Tell the fighter to hold after your action. Then you hit them with your attack, the fighter goes in and knocks them down, and then whomever else is on your team doesn their thing.

I thought you couldn't delay/hold in 5e? You can ready, but that consumes your reaction, prevents use of any attack-action-only bonus actions, and doesn't allow your-turn-only effects like Extra Attack.

[Brendanicus]

Hold on, you plan on going from level 10 to 12 in a few games? What kind of campaign are you running?

[Slipperychicken]

Hold on, you plan on going from level 10 to 12 in a few games? What kind of campaign are you running?

There are DMs who like to give roughly a level each session.

[Xetheral]

There are DMs who like to give roughly a level each session.

It makes sense for games that can only meet every other week or monthly. With missed sessions it would still take a year or two to go from 1-20.

I find that player's impatience to level depends more on passage on real time than on game time. That being said, I prefer slower progression. My (theoretically-)weekly games usually only gain 5-6 levels in the course of a year.

[Slipperychicken]

It makes sense for games that can only meet every other week or monthly. With missed sessions it would still take a year or two to go from 1-20.

I find that player's impatience to level depends more on passage on real time than on game time. That being said, I prefer slower progression. My (theoretically-)weekly games usually only gain 5-6 levels in the course of a year.

There's also the fact that the game most likely won't last a whole year anyway. But personally, I think that if you want to get the PCs to a certain level that badly, you might as well start them off there.

[Socko525]

Hold on, you plan on going from level 10 to 12 in a few games? What kind of campaign are you running?

We're playing rise of Tiamat. It's based on a milestone achievement system, so basically at the completion of each chapter the player characters gain a level. Also my friends and I only get together to play about once a month or so, so our game sessions can be upwards of 12 hours long. We often run through one chapter of a prewritten campaign in one sitting, sometimes 2 if they're short.

[Rub]

So FOR THOSE WHO HAVE ACTUAULLY USED THE SHEILD MASTER FEAT; what spells/effects have you used for the "lessor" two features of this Feat:
-AC bonus to DEX save on effect that targets you, OR
-Successful DEX throw giving no damage on what would have been half damage effects.

Curious, because it seems most spells that use DEX saves are area effects (thus negating the 1st benefit) so I wonder how useful that actually is. The second seems pretty useful, especially against Fireball and Dragon breath. But I'd be curious to hear real experiences.

[Safety Sword]

I have a Shield Master Paladin and a Sorcerer dropping Fireballs right on him using careful spell metamagic in a game I DM.

VERY effective.

Edit: The paladin has a pathetic DEX save...

[xanderh]

My shield master Eldritch Knight absolutely wrecks everything that gets close. We started off at level 5, and I took the feat at level 4. I've used the bonus action on practically every turn of every combat. If there's one strong enemy, I sacrifice one attack on the first turn on grappling him as well, and I've basically won that encounter for us.
I practically solo'ed a young red dragon at level 8, by running in and grappling and shoving it. The breath attack was mostly nullified by a combination of shield master and absorb elements.
Against multiple enemies, I always have advantage on attacks, which means my chance to hit is ridiculous. I went through an entire adventuring day, and between advantage and bless, missed a total of 2 attacks.

The feat is especially strong on an Eldritch Knight because you get spells. Enlarge/reduce allows you to shove and grapple any creature as long as the size is huge or lower.

The other benefits are pretty situational, but they do increase your survivability against dex saves. I haven't played Tyranny of Dragons, but I imagine the reaction could be very useful, as I imagine you fight a fair number of Dragons, compared to a lot of other campaigns.

[Rub]

Thanks guys. For anyone else who sees this (or posted previously), I was hoping to get a list of spells/effects people have actually used the non-shoving features on.

I decided to look up spells that use a DEX save that target one person to see when you could use the shield's AC Bonus. Here's what I see (ranked from highest to lowest level):
Chain Lightning (for the 1st target only?)
Disintegrate
Otto's Irresistible Dance
Grasping Vine
Lightning Arrow
Lightning Bolt
Cordon of Arrows?
Hellish Rebuke
Acid Splash
Light
Sacred Flame

Situationally, I think it could apply to:
Prismatic Wall?
Delayed Blast Fireball
Walls of Ice, Fire & Thorns
Blade Barrier
And any Area of Effect spells where you are the only target?

That is actually more than I thought, but realistically I can only envision using it a handful of times and only on Lightning Bolt and Disintigrate (that one being really helpful). Any thoughts or experiences? What about creature abilities?

[Icewraith]

One thing on prone targets: this isn't RAW, but by taking the Sharpshooter or Spell Sniper feats you can make a pretty convincing argument that you should get to ignore penalties from making ranged attacks on a prone target. If you're such a deadly ranged attacker you can ignore cover, what's a little prone-ness?

Also, while they're not very likely to end up prone, large or larger opponents probably shouldn't be any less difficult to hit with a ranged attack while prone. Mileage with your DM may vary.

There are some creature abilities that are single target attacks that force a dex save. You shouldn't get your bonus from shield master to avoid lightning bolts as written though, IIRC. If anything, trying to use shield master against a lightning bolt would probably get you ad-hoc disadvantage from the DM if you're wearing a metal shield. If either of your rolls with disadvantage came up a 20, I'd be inclined to let you reflect the lightning bolt back at the caster, full-on Captain America style.

I also wouldn't necessarily have an issue giving the dex bonus to saves against most dex save aoe attacks. The image of a sword-and-boarder - especially a paladin - using their shield to wade into a red dragon's breath weapon is pretty iconic.

[Beerbarian]

I've got a Level 7 Shield Dwarf Shield Master Barbarian. He's freaking BEAUTIFUL!

Last night, we were playing a long dungeon, and were running out of resources. I had 1 Rage left, and our Wizard had 2 fireballs and a fire wall that he hadn't been able to use because of the tight quarters. We had spotted a large group of 8 gnolls scattered around the next large area. Our 3 bards (Yes, you heard me right. We had 3 bards...) were feeling a little beat up, so my Barbarian looks to the wizard who had been complaining about not being able to use his fireballs and says, "You lot stay here. I'm going to run in there and get them all focused and gathered around me. You then wrap us tight with that firewall leaving just enough room for me to not get burned, then when I yell 'FIREBALL' Ye send yer blasted fireballs right square at me!"

They all looked at me like I was nuts, but I had a really sweet +2 shield, so was getting a +4AC, +4 DEX Saves, and Advantage on them. In total, my DEX saves are at +7 with Advantage. and I got a Bardic Inspiration just in case...

So my Barbarian flies into a rage, makes a ton of rukus while all the gnolls swarm him. Suddenly, they are surrounded by flames, the only way out being trough the fire, or through my shield wall. They spend a round being caught off guard, confused, and burning while a raging dwarf knocks them on their arses left and right.

So they are taking 5d8 Fire Wall damage, and then come the Fireballs...

I soar through my DEX saves, the party can't even see what is going on through all the conflagration...and finally the fire and smoke clears...leaving only my Barbarian standing, having taken 0 damage from the whole encounter.

It was glorious.

Now my Wizard and I are looking into all kinds of "Fireball Specials" AoEs with DEX saves that I can be in the center of. Because it's awesome.

[Arial Black]

Hey, if you use a shield as an improvised weapon, can you take the Dual Wielder feat to get an extra +1 AC and use two-weapon fighting with your shield? Cuz that seems kinda nifty.

TWF requires actual weapons to be used. If something is not a weapon, then you can use the rules on improvised weapons in order to adjudicate what happens when you hit someone upside the head with a tea tray, but it doesn't change whether or not the object counts as a 'weapon'. Effects that specify 'weapon' can only apply if an actual 'weapon' is the object in question.

In 3E, shields count as 'weapons'. In 5E, they do not. If they were, then they would be incompatible with the Dueling style.

They are not 'armour' either. They are 'shields'. They have their own rules.

[wilhelmdubdub]

No, that makes sense, snakes and more specific Naga, would need to be in striking position to attack normally. When you knock them prone, you knock them flat down, upside down, or off balance. Or whatever.

Not prone snake

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/26/article-0-0F471D3600000578-445_468x286.jpg

Prone snake

http://www.ohio.edu/people/brune/ohio-14/hognose_25may14_2b.jpg

Snakes and naga would also get advantage against being knocked prone.

But a shield master may or may not know what they can't knock down or whatever unless they are trained in like Animal Handling or Survival or Nature.

picture 1: prone

picture 2: supine

[sir_argo]

Hey, if you use a shield as an improvised weapon, can you take the Dual Wielder feat to get an extra +1 AC and use two-weapon fighting with your shield? Cuz that seems kinda nifty.

I know this will be disputed, but I believe the answer is no. You only gain the bonus +1 AC when you are wielding a melee weapon in each hand. A shield is not a melee weapon, in fact it isn't a weapon at all. It is a shield. If you read the rules on Improvised Weapons (PHB p.147-148) it never refers to the improvised weapon as a melee weapon. It only says it can be treated as a weapon that it sufficiently resembles. The example is a table leg could be treated as a club. A shield does not resemble any weapon. So I believe that it does not qualify for TWF or Dual Wielder.

[JBPuffin]

I know this will be disputed, but I believe the answer is no. You only gain the bonus +1 AC when you are wielding a melee weapon in each hand. A shield is not a melee weapon, in fact it isn't a weapon at all. It is a shield. If you read the rules on Improvised Weapons (PHB p.147-148) it never refers to the improvised weapon as a melee weapon. It only says it can be treated as a weapon that it sufficiently resembles. The example is a table leg could be treated as a club. A shield does not resemble any weapon. So I believe that it does not qualify for TWF or Dual Wielder.

Depends on how one reads Shield Master, or if you read it at all. Comment doesn't mention it, but it's the purpose of the thread *shrug*.

[Foxhound438]

as a notorious shill for inspiring leader, I would say that the defensive bonuses of SM are lame in comparison. But the shove is really nice, and has a ton of potential. Best used with a bard dip for exp. athletics to ensure success.

[djreynolds]

as a notorious shill for inspiring leader, I would say that the defensive bonuses of SM are lame in comparison. But the shove is really nice, and has a ton of potential. Best used with a bard dip for exp. athletics to ensure success.

Very true, expertise and the shove are worth it. But if you are relying on shield master to evade disintegrate......

I have found though at higher levels.... stuff keeps getting bigger and cannot be shoved. So shield master might help versus a dragon if you can make the dex save

[imanidiot]

Hold on, you plan on going from level 10 to 12 in a few games? What kind of campaign are you running?

I plan on a level pretty much every long rest. Possibly every other long rest at higher level but I never DM at higher levels anyway.

6 deadly encounters is typically enough to level.

[SharkForce]

I've got a Level 7 Shield Dwarf Shield Master Barbarian. He's freaking BEAUTIFUL!

Last night, we were playing a long dungeon, and were running out of resources. I had 1 Rage left, and our Wizard had 2 fireballs and a fire wall that he hadn't been able to use because of the tight quarters. We had spotted a large group of 8 gnolls scattered around the next large area. Our 3 bards (Yes, you heard me right. We had 3 bards...) were feeling a little beat up, so my Barbarian looks to the wizard who had been complaining about not being able to use his fireballs and says, "You lot stay here. I'm going to run in there and get them all focused and gathered around me. You then wrap us tight with that firewall leaving just enough room for me to not get burned, then when I yell 'FIREBALL' Ye send yer blasted fireballs right square at me!"

They all looked at me like I was nuts, but I had a really sweet +2 shield, so was getting a +4AC, +4 DEX Saves, and Advantage on them. In total, my DEX saves are at +7 with Advantage. and I got a Bardic Inspiration just in case...

So my Barbarian flies into a rage, makes a ton of rukus while all the gnolls swarm him. Suddenly, they are surrounded by flames, the only way out being trough the fire, or through my shield wall. They spend a round being caught off guard, confused, and burning while a raging dwarf knocks them on their arses left and right.

So they are taking 5d8 Fire Wall damage, and then come the Fireballs...

I soar through my DEX saves, the party can't even see what is going on through all the conflagration...and finally the fire and smoke clears...leaving only my Barbarian standing, having taken 0 damage from the whole encounter.

It was glorious.

Now my Wizard and I are looking into all kinds of "Fireball Specials" AoEs with DEX saves that I can be in the center of. Because it's awesome.

you appear to have missed something important.

shield master adds to your dex saves against single target effects only. you avoid damage on a successful save against AoE effects only. you should have been making all of those saves at only +3 (still advantage, presuming you're not blind or something, but also still only +3).

still a nice feat, imo (if you were wanting to use sword & board). but it doesn't do quite as much as what you're claiming here.

[follacchioso]

Hey, if you use a shield as an improvised weapon, can you take the Dual Wielder feat to get an extra +1 AC and use two-weapon fighting with your shield? Cuz that seems kinda nifty.

If you are using the shield as a weapon, then you are not using it as a shield, so I won't give you the +2 AC.

[Cybren]

No, that makes sense, snakes and more specific Naga, would need to be in striking position to attack normally. When you knock them prone, you knock them flat down, upside down, or off balance. Or whatever.

Not prone snake

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/26/article-0-0F471D3600000578-445_468x286.jpg

Prone snake

http://www.ohio.edu/people/brune/ohio-14/hognose_25may14_2b.jpg

Snakes and naga would also get advantage against being knocked prone.

But a shield master may or may not know what they can't knock down or whatever unless they are trained in like Animal Handling or Survival or Nature.

Technically that snake is supine. Prone is the default position for snakes, if we're going to be applying this terminology to them