Thoughts on a Class Feature that can borrow other Class Features

[Wartex1]

I'm making a Savant for 5E with Magic, Martial, and Miscreant archetypes, and I was wondering any horribly broken possibilities that could come from a feature that can replicate one low-level feature from another class (no scaling, so no 10d6 Sneak Attack), with the feature allowing a second one at higher levels.

Assuming you can't copy a feature that has a level requirement of 1/3 your Savant level rounded down, what broken combinations would there be?

The base chassis of the Savant is an INT-based halfcaster skillmonkey with skill related features (Bardic Knowledge from 3.5 with fixing, Expertise, etc.) if anyone would like to know.

[Fwiffo86]

I'm making a Savant for 5E with Magic, Martial, and Miscreant archetypes, and I was wondering any horribly broken possibilities that could come from a feature that can replicate one low-level feature from another class (no scaling, so no 10d6 Sneak Attack), with the feature allowing a second one at higher levels.

Assuming you can't copy a feature that has a level requirement of 1/3 your Savant level rounded down, what broken combinations would there be?

The base chassis of the Savant is an INT-based halfcaster skillmonkey with skill related features (Bardic Knowledge from 3.5 with fixing, Expertise, etc.) if anyone would like to know.

My input is this:

Make everything/anything chosen scale at 1/3rd. 1/3 casting, 1/3 scale Sneak attack, etc. Shows improvement, but if they can switch out what they do after say a long rest, that should come at a reasonably hefty cost.

I would only give standard skill proficiences: 2 class, 2 background. Leave additional proficiencies for one of the abilities they can swap out.

Put them in the middle ground for Arms and armor. Med proficiency, selected martial weapons, not all.

Stuff like that.

The potential for abuse is immense here. While the concept is cool, you have to remember to keep in mind these questions: Why would anyone play a class other than this one? Does any of this outclass/perform/etc other similar abilities?

[Shining Wrath]

It sounds similar to the Bard's ability to poach from other classes' spell lists; which means the real problem is going to be when you do the equivalent of poaching "Find Steed" with a bard's spell list, not a paladin's.

[Easy_Lee]

Add "with DM approval" to it and it's probably fine, assuming your DM is experienced.

[Wartex1]

This wasn't for a particular DM, but just out of concept, since I liked the Savant quite a bit.

Basically, the main chassis is a light armor, simple weapons half caster that uses intelligence and gets bonus skills like Bard with a large variety of skills to choose from. Other class features include advantage on INT checks (limited number per short/long rest), borrowing a feature from another class (limited by level or INT score), Expertise, and of course, half-casting with a general mixing of spells.

The Magic archetype grants one or two Warlock invocations, cantrips from any list, and the ability to cast at higher leveled spell slots by expending multiple lower level ones in addition to something else that's undecided.

The Martial archetype grants an extra attack, weapon and armor proficiencies, either a fighting style or some maneuvers, and the ability to use INT as your weapon attack/damage modifier.

The Miscreant archetype would grant INT for use in initiative, faster movement, trapmaking, and another undecided feature.

[-Jynx-]

Would you be allowing the class to poach from the abilities of just the base classes or their archetypes as well?

I think if you allowing the class to take from archetypes that it could end up being broken.

[Wartex1]

Probably just the base classes.

[Ardantis]

The same thing for races is what brought Pun-pun about.

[Wartex1]

That's a poor example, because Pun-Pun borrowed from every kind of creature, not just player races.

[Easy_Lee]

That's a poor example, because Pun-Pun borrowed from every kind of creature, not just player races.

Right, he cheesed to copy racial abilities from everything at once, effectively having every feature that could be beneficial to have. Then he grew to an arbitrary size, developed an arbitrarily large reach, was able to encompass the entirety of the cosmos within his reach, and opportunity attacked with infinitely powerful attacks, making himself the god over everything. That's not exactly something one can do in 5e.

[CNagy]

I'm making a Savant for 5E with Magic, Martial, and Miscreant archetypes, and I was wondering any horribly broken possibilities that could come from a feature that can replicate one low-level feature from another class (no scaling, so no 10d6 Sneak Attack), with the feature allowing a second one at higher levels.

Assuming you can't copy a feature that has a level requirement of 1/3 your Savant level rounded down, what broken combinations would there be?

The base chassis of the Savant is an INT-based halfcaster skillmonkey with skill related features (Bardic Knowledge from 3.5 with fixing, Expertise, etc.) if anyone would like to know.

The first thing that came to mind reading this was that it might be a halfway decent way to brew up the Paladin/Ranger/Trickster/Eldritch Knight counterpart to a Psion. Intelligence-based, mimicking traits from other classes. 1/3 of your Savant level means being stuck at level 6 class features or lower, so I could see getting a fair number of abilities across 18 levels assuming you start taking other classes' features at 3rd level. It keeps you from ever getting the really powerful stuff--Evasion is just out of your reach, Aura of Protection isn't, though since you wouldn't be able to get it until level 18 at the earliest, that doesn't seem too powerful.

Well, psionic or not, I imagine the best way to do this would either be mimicking the archetype structure of the Ranger Hunter (with variable options at given levels) or (and this might be better) turn those class features into invocation-like abilities, with their minimum level requirements and even the ability to change one each time you gain a new one.

[Wartex1]

I already did a Psion class before (that probably needs to have its power list balanced) and a respective Wilder class. One of the guys I'm in a game with is also doing some Psionics stuff as well (in theme, not in using actual psionics mechanics) like the Soulbow.

[pibby]

Are the stolen class features permanent or temporary for only a day? Because if you're going to make a class that borrows class features and changes them out on a daily basis then why not make a Binder or a Chameleon from 3.5? Also by how much would the archetypes influence the Savant towards their respective focuses?

Personally I think if you're going to make a class that borrows class features from others permanently then it needs to choose from a pool of features similar to how a Totem Barbarian or a Hunter Ranger whose chosen abilities can be chosen from the pool of abilities it's offered when they get their archetype abilities. The level a class gets any chosen ability doesn't necessarily dictate the power of the ability (only just roughly) rather than the method you suggested.

Like maybe instead of archetypes they get to choose from these pool of abilities I'll call the Applied Knowledge class feature. For example at 2nd level they'll get Applied Knowledge and choose from abilities like Sneak Attack at even level progressions, Rage that doesn't grant resistance on damage, half-casting, or two Warlock spell slots. These will basically be abilities that give the class consistent/competitive damage and only one such ability can be chosen from this pool. Then at level 6, 10, and 14 they can chose from another selective list that grant supportive, defensive, or roleplay advantages from other classes that aren't about dealing damage.