a Vow of Silence.

[Loki Eremes]

Hello people of the Playground.
Well...for the next D&D 3.5 campaing a friend is preparing i...was wondering about the misfortunes of choosing to make a Vow of Silence.

Yes: an exalted Cleric who doesnt speak.

I know there is no such thing in 3.5 (right?) but we homebrew it with the benefit of applying silent spell metamagic to all things i cast, so not casting 90% of the magic is not a problem anymore...but....

what do you think about it?
I know there must be precedents for some of you out there with someone trying to do this, even yourselves.
Did they last? did they could communicate or were helpfull overall?
I wanna know about your experiences, pros and cons of roleplaying a mute character.

[danzibr]

Hello people of the Playground.
Well...for the next D&D 3.5 campaing a friend is preparing i...was wondering about the misfortunes of choosing to make a Vow of Silence.

Yes: an exalted Cleric who doesnt speak.

I know there is no such thing in 3.5 (right?) but we homebrew it with the benefit of applying silent spell metamagic to all things i cast, so not casting 90% of the magic is not a problem anymore...but....

what do you think about it?
I know there must be precedents for some of you out there with someone trying to do this, even yourselves.
Did they last? did they could communicate or were helpfull overall?
I wanna know about your experiences, pros and cons of roleplaying a mute character.
Well this'd be... interesting to roleplay. I don't suppose you know sign language? Or you could say, ``My character signs, `I'll take the lead.'''

[Geddy2112]

You need some ability to speak, and quickly. Sign language is good if the rest of the party knows it. Another option would be limited telepahty. I once played a game with an oracle who was cursed with muteness. The DM gave his spells silent spell(without the level increase unless the spell was verbal only), and he had telepathy at short ranges so he could communicate. It was actually tons of fun and never got in the way of the game.

Or take a familiar that can talk, like a magpie or a raven.

[Red Fel]

Are you familiar with the Buomman race, from Planar Handbook? Because this is basically them. They're extraplanar humanoids who take a vow of silence; if they ever speak, they take a point of Wis damage and a penalty to rolls for 24 hours. They have to take the Silent Spell or Nonverbal Spell feats (take the latter, no adjustment of spell level) to cast spells with verbal components.

That said, it's hard. Really hard. Aside from combat, most of what you do will involve talking - talking to NPCs, talking to the party, and so forth. You won't do any of that. You may very well get tired of saying "My guy stands there menacingly," "My guy raises an eyebrow," "My guy gestures frantically at the doorway." If you're the only guy who makes the spot check, the best you can do is gesture furiously. If the rest of the party is asleep, you have to be creative in how you wake them up. If you need to communicate a complex message, you'd better have a pen ready. It's hard and distracting at the best of times.

That said, apart from spellcasting, it's not a major mechanical problem; it's a roleplaying problem. If you're in an RP-heavy group, it could work. If the rest of the party is willing to play along, it's a fun challenge. If they're not, however, it could prove incredibly frustrating.

[Vinyl Scratch]

I imagine sign language use would be rather difficult.

After all, the average character can only carry around so many signs.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Arguably, sign language is a form of speaking in the broad sense. If your vow is about sound, as implied by 'silence', then you'd better become incorporeal ASAP, because an incorporeal creature 'moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn't wish to be'. Naturally, sonic spells are right out, for such a character.

[Loki Eremes]

You need some ability to speak, and quickly. Sign language is good if the rest of the party knows it. Another option would be limited telepahty. I once played a game with an oracle who was cursed with muteness. The DM gave his spells silent spell(without the level increase unless the spell was verbal only), and he had telepathy at short ranges so he could communicate. It was actually tons of fun and never got in the way of the game.

Or take a familiar that can talk, like a magpie or a raven.

the Familiar option is nice.
Sign are also good, but the rest of the party must learn it too, not a bad option either: Thats one of those scenarios were you learn something new playing. :smallbiggrin:

I dont think telepathy is a good option roleplaying wise. After all, i want it to be an impediment, at least for some lvls.


Are you familiar with the Buomman race, from Planar Handbook? Because this is basically them. They're extraplanar humanoids who take a vow of silence; if they ever speak, they take a point of Wis damage and a penalty to rolls for 24 hours. They have to take the Silent Spell or Nonverbal Spell feats (take the latter, no adjustment of spell level) to cast spells with verbal components.

That said, it's hard. Really hard. Aside from combat, most of what you do will involve talking - talking to NPCs, talking to the party, and so forth. You won't do any of that. You may very well get tired of saying "My guy stands there menacingly," "My guy raises an eyebrow," "My guy gestures frantically at the doorway." If you're the only guy who makes the spot check, the best you can do is gesture furiously. If the rest of the party is asleep, you have to be creative in how you wake them up. If you need to communicate a complex message, you'd better have a pen ready. It's hard and distracting at the best of times.

That said, apart from spellcasting, it's not a major mechanical problem; it's a roleplaying problem. If you're in an RP-heavy group, it could work. If the rest of the party is willing to play along, it's a fun challenge. If they're not, however, it could prove incredibly frustrating.

Frustrating, yes...if they dont follow it will be like that, and i sincerelly hope that wont be the case, but i understand your point :smallfrown:



I imagine sign language use would be rather difficult.

After all, the average character can only carry around so many signs.
https://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/6-14/3tTwWQE5Fn-12.png



Arguably, sign language is a form of speaking in the broad sense. If your vow is about sound, as implied by 'silence', then you'd better become incorporeal ASAP, because an incorporeal creature 'moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn't wish to be'. Naturally, sonic spells are right out, for such a character.

We re using partially the rules from the Pathfinder's Vow of Silence (d20pfsrd), so i dont think DM will ban me sound spell......or at least combat related ones.
buuuut you have a point there lad.

[Segev]

Not D&D, but I played a sentient nanite swarm whose preferred form was human for a while. He had a backpack that was the bulk of his nanites, and, due to some flaw in his design and learning aparatus, he couldn't actually generate a speaker-like structure (or working vocal chords). He got by pretty effectively with gestures, facial expresisons, and pulling "toys" out of his backpack (really objects shaped from nanites, so technically a part of his swarm).

I think the props were a huge help, personally.

[danzibr]

Derp. Why didn't I think of this earlier? Speak telepathically.

[Loki Eremes]

Not D&D, but I played a sentient nanite swarm whose preferred form was human for a while. He had a backpack that was the bulk of his nanites, and, due to some flaw in his design and learning aparatus, he couldn't actually generate a speaker-like structure (or working vocal chords). He got by pretty effectively with gestures, facial expresisons, and pulling "toys" out of his backpack (really objects shaped from nanites, so technically a part of his swarm).

I think the props were a huge help, personally.


excuse, i got hooked by that PC. Which game is it from??
Toys and objects are another good option in early levels.



Derp. Why didn't I think of this earlier? Speak telepathically.


Its the perfect idea for overcoming this thread's main problem, but i also find it a cheap way of overcoming the obstacle i put in front myself.
Still i think is a good idea for late campaing. It could be a great revelation in the story of the character :smallamused:

[MyrPsychologist]

I have had players impose a vow of silence on their characters in games that I was the DM for in the past.

Overall, they become a real hindrance unless they fix it. Very simple tasks become exceptionally difficult to accomplish one of the contributing players really can't communicate their intent or experiences (there are actually board games based around this fact. try them. it's really amusing to see how things fall apart without speech).

Common fixes to at least alleviate some of the problems I've run into:
1. Force the party to learn sign language. This will take time but will at least help alleviate some of the pain. Maybe you're a drow or someone very accustomed to fighting the drow and now know drow sign language. This sort of tax might annoy players, so work it out with the GM and party if you actually intend to do this.
2. Noise makers. If you ever intend to be a guard at night you will need this. Otherwise the entire party might die to an ambush. This problem alleviates with levels but the capacity to instantly make a "Danger" noise to alert everyone is always extremely helpful.
3. Telepathy. See other posters.
4. Signs. Don't do this.

I would also caution that such an extreme player restriction should only be taken with extensive thought and planning. You will not likely interact with the party as much, be asked to assist in problem solving, and may be seen as a hindrance to others.

[danzibr]

Its the perfect idea for overcoming this thread's main problem, but i also find it a cheap way of overcoming the obstacle i put in front myself.
Still i think is a good idea for late campaing. It could be a great revelation in the story of the character :smallamused:
That would be really cool. Spend the first x levels always signing and stuff, then once you learn telepathy, it's like (for the other party members, the DM speaking), ``Suddenly a sound enters your mind, the most beautiful and pure sound, as if its purity preserved. It's not a voice, for this person does not use his voice, but rather their thoughts.'' ... Or something.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Heroes of Battle, page 95, Speak Language, Battle Signals.

Simple, silent, fast.

You're welcome.

[Loki Eremes]

I have had players impose a vow of silence on their characters in games that I was the DM for in the past.

Overall, they become a real hindrance unless they fix it. Very simple tasks become exceptionally difficult to accomplish one of the contributing players really can't communicate their intent or experiences (there are actually board games based around this fact. try them. it's really amusing to see how things fall apart without speech).

Common fixes to at least alleviate some of the problems I've run into:
1. Force the party to learn sign language. This will take time but will at least help alleviate some of the pain. Maybe you're a drow or someone very accustomed to fighting the drow and now know drow sign language. This sort of tax might annoy players, so work it out with the GM and party if you actually intend to do this.
2. Noise makers. If you ever intend to be a guard at night you will need this. Otherwise the entire party might die to an ambush. This problem alleviates with levels but the capacity to instantly make a "Danger" noise to alert everyone is always extremely helpful.
3. Telepathy. See other posters.
4. Signs. Don't do this.

I would also caution that such an extreme player restriction should only be taken with extensive thought and planning. You will not likely interact with the party as much, be asked to assist in problem solving, and may be seen as a hindrance to others.

Yeah i know. But thats what i think will make the challenge fun. To many years playing...i have to experiment :smallbiggrin:


That would be really cool. Spend the first x levels always signing and stuff, then once you learn telepathy, it's like (for the other party members, the DM speaking), ``Suddenly a sound enters your mind, the most beautiful and pure sound, as if its purity preserved. It's not a voice, for this person does not use his voice, but rather their thoughts.'' ... Or something.

Exactly! tasty character development.



Heroes of Battle, page 95, Speak Language, Battle Signals.

Simple, silent, fast.

You're welcome.


I loved you Rin before i entered this forum and i love you more now :smallredface:

[Thurbane]

As well as Battle SIgnals, Drow Sign Language is definitely a thing you can get with Speak Language as well.

[The Insanity]

http://www.talesofvaloran.com/comics/2012-10-14-talesofvaloran014.png

[Flickerdart]

Telepathy or spells like telepathic bond are super-useful for making things like this non-terrible.

Interestingly, Ethergaunts cannot speak - but they use dominate person to force other creatures to become their mouthpieces.

[Loki Eremes]

As well as Battle SIgnals, Drow Sign Language is definitely a thing you can get with Speak Language as well.

The only problem with BATTLE signs are the times.
I can understand a move action....but a Standar to a Full-Action?
Sry...but which manual are Drow Signs from? (specific page if you could my friend, pretty please? :smallbiggrin:)


http://www.talesofvaloran.com/comics/2012-10-14-talesofvaloran014.png

Oooohhh....Sorakablogspot......long time no see hehe
And yes....that sappling came to my mind some posts ago lol.


Telepathy or spells like telepathic bond are super-useful for making things like this non-terrible.

Interestingly, Ethergaunts cannot speak - but they use dominate person to force other creatures to become their mouthpieces.

Yeah, it becomes affordable mid-campaing and it will be between party members so its ok.
And about the dominate person part...... nice way of communication... but isnt necesary for the dominate person spell to give the target verbal orders and such???

[Andreaz]

Invent your own sign language. Just need a point of Speak Language.

[thethird]

The only problem with BATTLE signs are the times.
I can understand a move action....but a Standar to a Full-Action?
Sry...but which manual are Drow Signs from? (specific page if you could my friend, pretty please? :smallbiggrin:)


Drow of the Underdark section about skills / languages I believe. I don't have the book in front of me atm.

[Loki Eremes]

Invent your own sign language. Just need a point of Speak Language.


Drow of the Underdark section about skills / languages I believe. I don't have the book in front of me atm.

Thx both guys :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Quester]

Could just take ranks in perform (act; includes the mime skill) and act out what you want to say. Makes for some fun roleplaying.

Plus a note to the DM and a die roll can help in translation if the other players don't follow along with the roleplaying.

My druid took one rank in this skill for communicating with the players while in wildshape.

[Andreaz]

Could just take ranks in perform (act; includes the mime skill) and act out what you want to say. Makes for some fun roleplaying.
http://media.oglaf.com/comic/moonshine.jpg