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Wartex1
2015-05-16, 09:18 AM
Cavalier
A master of mounted combat, a Cavalier is both a fearsome warrior and a servant of honor, be it that of others or themselves. Warriors who blaze across the battlefield on loyal steeds, they power through enemy lines, unstoppable in their path.

Loyal Steed
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain a loyal horse or similar creature which is faithful to you until the end. You may use the Find Steed spell once per Short Rest, but the type of the creature is its original type. In addition, you gain proficiency in Vehicles (land).

Challenge
At 7th level, you may issue a challenge to a single creature of sentience that you may see within 500 feet of you as a bonus action once per short rest. Until either you or the target is dead, unconscious, surrenders, or leaves battle, the Challenge is active. Your melee attacks against that creature deal extra damage equal to your Proficiency Bonus.

Cavalier Order
At 10th level, you may pledge yourself to one of three orders, each with different codes of honor and bonuses.
Order of the Flame A glory seeking order focusing on glory and fame, you are quick to fight and eager to shed blood. Mounting a creature requires no movement and your mount's dash has twice as much movement.
Order of the Shield Protecting those who need it, your shield arm is ever ready. All allied creatures adjacent to you may gain your shield's bonus to AC. This feature doesn't stack with others of its kind.
Order of the Blue Rose A knight of peace who seeks to end conflict by a merciful blade and powerful tongue, you can combine the two. You gain proficiency in Persuasion. If you are already proficient in persuasion you may choose another proficiency from the fighter list. In addition you gain advantage on any Persuasion check made to avert or end conflict.

Inspiring Banner
At 15th level, you gain an awe-inspiring banner based off of your order that boosts morale for you and your allies and demoralizes enemies. While wearing this banner, all allies that can see you gain advantage on saves against being frightened, while enemies that can see you gain disadvantage on saves against being frightened. Additionally, you may use your Challenge twice per Short Rest.

Grand Challenge
Once you reach 18th level, you gain a second technique based off of your order to enforce your will as part of your Challenge.
Order of the Flame You can charge through enemy ranks to reach the target of your Challenge. When moving towards a target under the effect of your Challenge whilst mounted, you may choose to be able to move through enemy spaces and ignore opportunity attacks against you or your mount. However, if you activate this feature, then you must make a melee attack against the target of your Challenge that turn or your Challenge ends.
Order of the Shield Your Challenge causes your enemies to ignore those that you protect. When you use your Challenge, you may force disadvantage on all attack rolls the target of your Challenge makes against creatures other than you and grant advantage on saving throws made by other creatures against spells and other effects created by the target of your Challenge. However, if you attack an enemy not under the effect of your Challenge, your Challenge ends.
Order of the Blue Rose Your will to end violence without resorting to lethal means gives your Challenge an air of control. Creatures under the effect of your Challenge have disadvantage on saves and checks against being restrained or grappled. However, your peaceful intentions are betrayed by killing a creature, which ends your Challenge.

meltodowno
2015-05-19, 06:28 AM
Loyal Steed
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain a loyal horse or similar creature. You may choose a warhorse, riding horse, donkey, or similar creature that you can mount. Fantastic creatures such as griffons or dragons require your DM's permission, as they may be overpowering. You add your proficiency bonus to the creature's AC and saves. Your mount also gains an additional 200 to its carrying capacity. In addition, its HP is equal to 4 times your Fighter level or its own, whichever is greater. This creature will always be loyal to you, and cannot be magically commanded to go against your will. While both mounted on your steed and unmounted, it is always considered to be controlled, moving as you direct it and only being able to take the Dodge, Dash, or Disengage actions.
When not mounting your steed, you may verbally command it to move in any direction you wish. If your steed dies, you may purchase or find another mount, which becomes your loyal steed.


Get rid of the mention of Griffins and dragons. There is no need for it within a class ability, not least to say 'your dm might give you broken stuff'. It's reinventing the wheel a little bit, if I'm honest.

Just give them the Find Steed spell once per short rest. It's already balanced in system without all the extra frippery.



Challenge
At 7th level, you may issue a challenge to a single creature of sentience that you may see as a bonus action once per short rest. Until either you or the target is dead, unconscious, surrenders, or leaves battle, the Challenge is active. Your attacks against that creature deal extra damage equal to your Proficiency Bonus.


It should read:
'At 7th level, you may issue a challenge to a sentient creature within 60ft as a bonus action. Until either you or the target is dead, unconscious, surrenders, or leaves battle, the Challenge is active. Your attacks against that creature deal extra damage equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You may use this ability once per short rest.'



Cavalier Order
At 10th level, you may pledge yourself to one of three orders, each with different codes of honor and bonuses.
Order of the Flame A glory seeking order focusing on glory and fame, you are quick to fight and eager to shed blood. If you are not surprised at the start of combat, you may move your full movement speed or your mount's movement speed if you are mounted as a reaction.
Order of the Shield Protecting those who need it, your shield arm is ever ready. Whenever you are hit by an attack or effect that you can see while wielding a shield, you may use your reaction to halve the damage you take.
Order of the Penitent A firm believer in fair trial, you are prepared to take those who harm society to the court of law. While you are mounted on your steed, you may pin a creature up to one size larger than you with a weapon attack. While mounted, you are able to perform a grapple against any creature within your weapon's melee range by using the weapon. You perform these grapples as normal, but you are unable to use the weapon you used as long as the target of your grapple is still grappled.


Flame: is really weak. Perhaps just give them a flat move action as a bonus action instead.

Shield: is really powerful, you have heavy armor, taking uncanny dodge is unnecessary and doesn't match the fluff. Recommend instead granting your shield AC bonus to any allies within 5ft, giving more reason to work with the team rather than storm off on your own.

Penitent: could use reworking. It doesn't make a terrible amount of sense as to how it works, and with a reach weapon you can grapple things without them been able to attack you back.



Inspiring Banner
At 15th level, you gain an awe-inspiring banner based off of your order that boosts morale for you and your allies and demoralizes enemies. While wearing this banner, all allies that can see you gain advantage on saves against being frightened, while enemies that can see you gain disadvantage on saves against being frightened.


It's ok.



Grand Challenge
Once you reach 18th level, you gain a second technique based off of your order to enforce your will as part of your Challenge.
Order of the Flame You can charge through enemy ranks to reach the target of your Challenge. When moving towards a target under the effect of your Challenge whilst mounted, you may choose to be able to move through enemy spaces and ignore attacks of opportunity. However, if you activate this feature, then you must attack the target of your Challenge or your Challenge ends.
Order of the Shield Your Challenge causes your enemies to ignore those that you protect. The target of your Challenge gains disadvantage on attacks against creatures other than you (or your mount if you are mounted). However, if you attack a creature who is not under the effect of your Challenge while this is active, your Challenge ends.
Order of the Penitent Your will to bring justice fairly to criminals is strengthened by your Challenge, allowing easier capture of those wanted by the law. If you inflict the grappled condition against the target of your Challenge, such as with your Cavalier Order feature, you may inflict the incapacitated condition on the target until your Challenge ends. However, if you or your ally attacks the target, your Challenge ends.

Flame: needs rewording (attacks of opportunity is not a 5ed term), and as a capstone is a bit lackluster. Slap advantage on the attacks as well, since it is still one target per short rest.

Shield: Lackluster capstone, and really circumstantial. Perhaps add in the original 10th level ability?

Penitent: Overpowered, and doesn't really match the fluff of a penitent. Lance caster, inflicting grapple and instantly remove him from combat? Yeah ... no.



Overall: Relatively lackluster. Fluff doesn't match some of the features (penitent been especially bad for this). Basing most of the features of a 1 per short rest ability leaves them pretty useless the rest of the day.

3/10

Wartex1
2015-05-19, 06:52 AM
Get rid of the mention of Griffins and dragons. There is no need for it within a class ability, not least to say 'your dm might give you broken stuff'. It's reinventing the wheel a little bit, if I'm honest.

Just give them the Find Steed spell once per short rest. It's already balanced in system without all the extra frippery.



It should read:
'At 7th level, you may issue a challenge to a sentient creature within 60ft as a bonus action. Until either you or the target is dead, unconscious, surrenders, or leaves battle, the Challenge is active. Your attacks against that creature deal extra damage equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You may use this ability once per short rest.'



Flame: is really weak. Perhaps just give them a flat move action as a bonus action instead.

Shield: is really powerful, you have heavy armor, taking uncanny dodge is unnecessary and doesn't match the fluff. Recommend instead granting your shield AC bonus to any allies within 5ft, giving more reason to work with the team rather than storm off on your own.

Penitent: could use reworking. It doesn't make a terrible amount of sense as to how it works, and with a reach weapon you can grapple things without them been able to attack you back.



It's ok.



Flame: needs rewording (attacks of opportunity is not a 5ed term), and as a capstone is a bit lackluster. Slap advantage on the attacks as well, since it is still one target per short rest.

Shield: Lackluster capstone, and really circumstantial. Perhaps add in the original 10th level ability?

Penitent: Overpowered, and doesn't really match the fluff of a penitent. Lance caster, inflicting grapple and instantly remove him from combat? Yeah ... no.



Overall: Relatively lackluster. Fluff doesn't match some of the features (penitent been especially bad for this). Basing most of the features of a 1 per short rest ability leaves them pretty useless the rest of the day.

3/10

60 ft range on Challenge is sort of short, since it's supposed to be used in charging across the battlefield.

Penitent is based around capturing creatures, and the incapacitation ends as the Challenge ends (which would be once that enemy is the last one left). Shield is to "force" the enemy into attacking you, thus saving your allies.

As for Find Steed, I was trying to stray away from magical effects, but I guess it'll work. I'll have to make it so that the summoned steed has the beast type.

Yeah, the first Flame ability might be too weak. The first Shield could definitely be changed. The first Penitent one though was the idea of using your weapon to pin an enemy to the ground, which went through several changes.

The reason why the whole thing might be a little subpar was to balance out the actual mounted mechanics, since you basically get free dash or disengage a turn along with nearly double movement speed. Plus, with Mounted Combatant, this could be way too strong.

Wartex1
2015-05-19, 08:50 AM
One thing I wanted to avoid was redundancy in some of the features and not making it too good while mounted. Mounted Combatant gives advantage on attack rolls against creatures smaller than your mount, allows you to redirect attacks against your mount, and gives your mount the rogue ability which halves damage from DEX saving throws and nullifies it on a successful throw.

I did make some edits, and I might change the Order of the Penitent (which I chose for the flavor) to something like Order of the Scales.

Wartex1
2015-05-19, 11:00 AM
Made some edits, including changing Penitent to Blue Rose.

Flashy
2015-05-19, 11:21 AM
Order of the Blue Rose A knight of peace who seeks to end conflict by a merciful blade and powerful tongue, you may combine the two. You gain advantage on Persuasion checks to further peaceful goals while displaying a weapon.

This is a nice concept with flawed execution. First of all, the condition that triggers the advantage is vastly too specific (persuasion checks with bared weapons aren't the most common thing in the universe), while also being way too open to interpretation. "Furthering peaceful goals" could be made to mean anything from negotiating a truce in a long running war to demanding someone hand over their coin-purse so you don't have to stab them.

Secondly, advantage on persuasion checks is nice, but it's not likely that a cavalier will either have many points in charisma or proficiency in persuasion. No other class features use charisma, the fighter class does not grant persuasion proficiency and only the noble and guild merchant backgrounds grant it. I would change the ability to:

Order of the Blue Rose: A knight of peace who seeks to end conflict by a merciful blade and powerful tongue, you may combine the two. You gain proficiency in Persuasion. If you are already proficient in persuasion you may choose another proficiency from the fighter list. In addition you gain advantage on any Persuasion check made to avert or end conflict.

It's still probably too open ended, but that wording should be vaguely less prone to abuse.

Wartex1
2015-05-19, 11:50 AM
This is a nice concept with flawed execution. First of all, the condition that triggers the advantage is vastly too specific (persuasion checks with bared weapons aren't the most common thing in the universe), while also being way too open to interpretation. "Furthering peaceful goals" could be made to mean anything from negotiating a truce in a long running war to demanding someone hand over their coin-purse so you don't have to stab them.

Secondly, advantage on persuasion checks is nice, but it's not likely that a cavalier will either have many points in charisma or proficiency in persuasion. No other class features use charisma, the fighter class does not grant persuasion proficiency and only the noble and guild merchant backgrounds grant it. I would change the ability to:

Order of the Blue Rose: A knight of peace who seeks to end conflict by a merciful blade and powerful tongue, you may combine the two. You gain proficiency in Persuasion. If you are already proficient in persuasion you may choose another proficiency from the fighter list. In addition you gain advantage on any Persuasion check made to avert or end conflict.

It's still probably too open ended, but that wording should be vaguely less prone to abuse.

I don't want to add proficiencies since the other orders don't. Do you have any other suggestions that fit a peace-desiring or criminal-capturing (if I switch it back to Penitent) cavalier?

Do the other parts look okay?

SonsOfSauron
2015-05-19, 11:55 AM
Re: not wanting to give only one of them a proficiency.

I think that asymmetry in design is fine, especially if it's more of a ribbon.

Flashy
2015-05-19, 12:02 PM
I don't want to add proficiencies since the other orders don't. Do you have any other suggestions that fit a peace-desiring or criminal-capturing (if I switch it back to Penitent) cavalier?

Do the other parts look okay?

I wouldn't worry about it. As is it's double dash or +2 to neighboring ally's AC weighed against advantage on corner case skill checks for a skill you most likely don't have more than a +2 for. The proficiency is not a problem.

The capstone ability for Order of the Blue Rose seems fine.

Wartex1
2015-05-19, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

Does Banner look fine? It's basically a weaker Paladin Aura with a much greater range.

Gnomes2169
2015-05-21, 03:01 AM
Really, the only thing that I think this class needs is the addition of a very specific proficiency at level 3.

Mounts.

Fighters don't start with proficiency in mounts, not everything grants proficiency in mounts, and being mounted is sort of integral to this entire class design. So give them proficiency: Mounts as its own separate entry at level 3.

The only other tweak I can recommend is to give Inspiring Banner something active to do, on top of the passive fear interaction... maybe, "Additionally, you may use a bonus action to give an ally within 60ft of you that can hear and see your banner a command, inspiring them to move farther and evade their enemy's blades. Your target may immediately move up to half their movement without provoking opportunity attacks."

Yes, it's maneuvering strike... but with a bonus action requirement, much shorter range, and theoretically infinite use. It won't allow the crusader to do everything else the battlemaster can do, but gives the crusader a bit more use out of their bonus action, and gives their allies (who they are leading into battle) a bit more mobility.

Wartex1
2015-05-21, 07:28 AM
Mounts don't use any proficiencies except Animal Handling for performing difficult maneuvers and such. Fighter can get that, but it's not needed to actually use the mount at all.

Gnomes2169
2015-05-21, 11:18 AM
Mounts don't use any proficiencies except Animal Handling for performing difficult maneuvers and such. Fighter can get that, but it's not needed to actually use the mount at all.

Hmmm, so they don't. Still, most fighters likely won't have animal handling either, so maybe a note that says they add their proficiency bonus to any checks made to control their mount, and expertise in such checks if they do have Animal Handling?

SonsOfSauron
2015-05-21, 11:23 AM
Hmmm, so they don't. Still, most fighters likely won't have animal handling either, so maybe a note that says they add their proficiency bonus to any checks made to control their mount, and expertise in such checks if they do have Animal Handling?

I think the cleanest way to do that is to just give them a bonus proficiency in Land Vehicles (Mounts).

Gnomes2169
2015-05-21, 11:28 AM
I think the cleanest way to do that is to just give them a bonus proficiency in Land Vehicles (Mounts).

Aha, that's what I was thinking of! Thank you much!

Wartex1
2015-05-21, 01:31 PM
After some more research, mounts fall under vehicles (land).

I also added something to the Banner.