OOTS #442 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Theodoxus]

OMG, I love Meteor Swarm!

Plus, Xykon's so cool... I mean, good adventurers are so blase now a days... but villians, with depth and real power to go 'monologue -> death!' Yeah, that's happiness right there.

Thanks Rich!

Hope you're feeling better - though your fevered writing hasn't suffered one bit :)

[AtomicKitKat]

If there were ever any doubt that Caster beats Fighter, dispel them now. :D

[Maryring]

That... has to hurt. Great job Giant.

[Calsan]

Hehe, good one Giant.

Loved the humour.

[RyanJ]

Ouch. Poor Roy. Too LG for his own good.

[MReav]

Well, Roy's kinda boned.

And to think, Xykon was actually employing diplomacy to a situation.

[Wikkin]

Excellent comic and early too! :)

[Alex Knight]

And it looks like Xykon is in this for the fun...."call it a mulligan"?

[piestandsalone]

nice... thats just how good it is

[Conqueso]

Now that's a weekend cliffhanger.

[PirateMonk]

Woo hoo! Blood thirsty halflings will get along fine! :smallbiggrin:

Great comic.

[KayJay]

Ooh, text heavy strip... great :)

[Exeunt]

Bloodthirsty Halflings will probably get along just fine...

:belkar: :belkar: :belkar:

*snicker*

Edit : damn you PirateMonk :P

[Swordguy]

Oh, sonova crap. New comic already!

I felt like we'd had this conversation in the comic before - like when lizard-V and the Dragon were discussing the issue of V's hit point total.

The metagaming that Xykon was trying to pull to get Roy off his back was a neat touch too. "Go level up for a while so we can have a good fight". :biggrin:

[ElfLad]

My jaw dropped.

[Wikkin]

Can I get a Feather Fall please!?

[jindra34]

Great are we ever going to have a situation where we Know how the hero survives until the end of the AC seige? i hope so... Roy is going to go splat...

[Aerysil]

Youch.

And see what all of you get for trying to get Rich to take the day off? We get a double strip. Nice going.

[Nightwing]

The best character was :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy: :roy:

[Kriel]

Lets see here... falling from hundreds of feet in the air after just being hit by a Meteor Swarm, barely hanging onto consciousness, and the knowledge that if the fall doesn't kill you (unlikely), then the hobgoblins below most certainly will kill you. There's only one way out of this for Roy that I can think of that doesn't involve him becoming a bloody smear on the ground below, and he'd better think of it quick.

[Assassinfox]

WHOAMG! Roy cracked Xykon's skull!

[GWLlosa]

That look like a 'signoff speech' to anyone else?

[One Skunk Todd]

Heh, love the Harry Potter scar on Xykon's head now.

But ouchies for poor Roy. On my screen the last panel is just blurry enough that I can't tell if his eyes are X's.

[Wikkin]

Booty talisman time!

[RationalGoblin]

Elflad sums it up for me. Whoa.

Plus, Xykon's awesome as usual! I love philosiphy (sp?) type villains.

Awesome job, Rich!

[Hitorijun]

We vote to give him the day off and he gives an extra long strip. Thanks giant. Now you have all weekend to rest up. :smallsmile:

[jindra34]

Lets see here... falling from hundreds of feet in the air after just being hit by a Meteor Swarm, barely hanging onto consciousness, and the knowledge that if the fall doesn't kill you (unlikely), then the hobgoblins below most certainly will kill you. There's only one way out of this for Roy that I can think of that doesn't involve him becoming a bloody smear on the ground below, and he'd better think of it quick.

We discussed this a while ago there are two ways out... one involves V the other...

[Silverblaze]

And it looks like Xykon is in this for the fun...."call it a mulligan"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulligan - Have your pick, but speaking as a golfer AND a roleplayer, I still have to say that golf was around way before Magic the Gathering *GG*

I seem to recall that earlier on in the forum, somebody made a question of whether an Ootser would ever be raised from the dead - I think that Roy might be in for some serious healing here, or he is going to be the first one...

[mstkone]

That is one heckuva strip. Made my afternoon! I wonder what Xykon was trying to say...

[Jukashi]

Go Roy! Save the world for those sexy sylphs!

Also whatever else it is you listed.:smalltongue:

[HyramGraff]

Great comic Giant.

I'm guessing now would be a good time for Roy to use his talismin. Either that or Belkar has now caused the death of Roy.

[nusigf]

Freakin' AWESOME. Feather Fall, anyone?

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Factor three: Meteor Swarm

Beautiful. :smallbiggrin:

[jindra34]

That is one heckuva strip. Made my afternoon! I wonder what Xykon was trying to say...

He was telling Roy to surrender and he would live to come back later and try again... roy would never do that...

[mstkone]

He was telling Roy to surrender and he would live to come back later and try again... roy would never do that...

Yeah, after that though, while getting his skull cracked. I'm pretty sure it was another attempt to request a surrender, but I'd certainly like to know definitively. (Are there any other ways I can say 'sure' in one sentence? :smallredface: )

[XtheYeti]

Booty talisman time!
not just to save his life but to get healed up and have some in flight battle too

Edit: either that or he falls onto a nice padding of hob courpses.

[silvadel]

Man Roy was dumb -- hear the guy out -- don't stick a sword in his ear....

Xykon was amazing there... I mean really amazing... One almost thinks there is hope for him....

Roy's rationale that Belkar would do fine was kind of cute as well...

---

Definitely one of the better OOTS comics.

[jindra34]

Roy is still consious... no eyes closed or X'd... so there is still hope... hopefully...

[maximus]

Poor Roy... is he going to land on the (darn it... forgot their names... ) white tentacle thingies again? And you can tell that he is finally doing some damage because Xykon's skull was looking a little beat up. :)

[Hel65]

Oh yeah, finally, score one for the Evil Team! :)

[jindra34]

Oh yeah, finally, score one for the Evil Team! :)

its like 10-2 good guys... the DK scored a point...

[Querzis]

Man Roy was dumb -- hear the guy out -- don't stick a sword in his ear....

Yeah sure, surrender and let him destroy the city, now thats really what a smart hero should do.

Anyway, go introverted dwarf, greedy rogue, sexy sylphs, androgynous elves, idiotic bards, bloodthirsty halflings and, above everyone else, GO CYNICAL FIGHTER!

And yeah I really think its booty talisman time.

[CGM3]

Flap your arms, Roy! Flap your arms!

(Well, desperate times call for desperate measures. It sure couldn't make things worse! And besides, "Perhaps the horse will learn to sing.")

[asqwasqw]

Loved the villainous monologue. What was he trying to say?

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

I just realised: Roy took direct hits from all four meteors of a Meteor Swarm. That's 32d6 (8d6 bludgeoning + 24d6 fire) damage right there with no save, if I'm reading the spell description right. On top of all the damage he'd taken previously (which, from his injuries, looks to be a fair bit) and any falling damage he'll take if doesn't find away out of this predicament pretty damn quick.

All I can say is thank god for dramatic license. :smalleek:

[silvadel]

Roy lost his temper and acted quite like Miko there actually....

And I am amazed he survived the direct hits from that meteor swarm... 13d10 and not at full hp and without a ton of con as shown from the miko fights vs 32d6? I mean that doesnt even include the save vs massive damage that would be entailed.

[onasuma]

What are the odds he lands on belkar?

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Oh yeah, finally, score one for the Evil Team! :)
its like 10-2 good guys... the DK scored a point... Don't forget the Titanium Elementals. They did some pretty hefty damage to the walls before V went and owned them.

[AyuVince]

Poor Roy... is he going to land on the (darn it... forgot their names... ) white tentacle thingies again? And you can tell that he is finally doing some damage because Xykon's skull was looking a little beat up. :)

Nah, people land on the Flumphs for comedic effect, not for dramatic rescue.

Well, anyway, :roy: got pretty much owned there.. let's hope he lands safe and that the OotS has time to regroup before Xykon can enter the throne room.

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

Anyone who still hates Roy is a bad person.

Its that simple.

[Sturmjaeger]

If it were me, Meteor Swarm would have been Factor 2, but maybe I lack showmanship. Great strip. Poor Roy.

[Rockstrel]

*tsk*
Well, if Roy will insist on ignoring perfectly reasonable diplomacy, then he deserves everything he's got coming to him...

[Eldritch Knight]

That is one of the nastiest Cliffhangers I've ever seen!

[K'tai]

I kinda like Xykon's monolouges......I think Roy should hear him out at least a little longer. Roy says he doesn't buy into the whole dumb fighter thing, and yet he talks too much and doesn't listen (hint: miko battle and now this)

[Dragor]

Congrats, Giant- if anything, illness has made you write better :smallbiggrin:

I have a feeling Roy is going to be one scarred man after this fight.

[tanonev]

I just realised: Roy took direct hits from all four meteors of a Meteor Swarm. That's 32d6 (8d6 bludgeoning + 24d6 fire) damage right there with no save, if I'm reading the spell description right. On top of all the damage he'd taken previously (which, from his injuries, looks to be a fair bit) and any falling damage he'll take if doesn't find away out of this predicament pretty damn quick.

All I can say is thank god for dramatic license. :smalleek:

Maybe Xykon was feeling nice and targeted the dragon instead of Roy, so he'd only be subject to the fire damage, and maybe he got lucky with the Reflex saves as well...EDIT oops, I didn't look at the explosion carefully enough, looks like Roy is the target after all =/

Either way, this was bound to happen eventually :P I guess Roy got the wrong idea after seeing Xykon favor Magic Missile in their last encounter...

[sherlock]

Wonderful! Above all:
- :xykon: I like the world. .... I wouldn't mind ruling it, in fact. [LOL]
- :xykon: I'm certainly not to destroy it unless I get really, REALLY bored. [ROTFL]
- :roy: Bloodthirsty halflings will probably get along fine, though. [ROTFL]
- :xykon: Factor Three [LOL yet quite dramatic]

Illness doesn't seem to impair your capabilities, giant! :-)

[silvadel]

You know I just thought of something...

Roy isnt worth any EXP to Xykon....

[Xilehxt]

Holy Meteor Swarm. Nice one.

Again, Roy displays his stubbornness and self-satisfying ego. But I guess that's his character and being LG. Xykon for the win. So on top of accumulated damage, 8d6 bludgeon + 24d6 fire, add 20d6 falling damage and Roy is toast.

This would be the prime spot for Celia to come in and swoop Roy out. Perhaps that spell broke the talisman, or Roy will have enough sense in him to call for help right there.

I really should join the :xykon: fan club...

[Zaria]

No! Roy!!!

I hope beyond all hope that Roy survives... or if he doesn't, that they resurrect him.

Oh dear... Who will lead OotS if Roy dies?

[Khoran]

*Gawks* You honestly left me speechless.

[jindra34]

You know I just thought of something...

Roy isnt worth any EXP to Xykon....

HE is seven levels lower... Just barely worth XP... maybe Xykon is greedy...

[silvadel]

He is "at least" 7 levels lower...

Plus Xykon has the +2 template for being a lich so Roy is at least 9CR below him hence no exp -- chuckle. Kind of like a hobgoblin to Belkar.

[EricDerKonig]

I just realised: Roy took direct hits from all four meteors of a Meteor Swarm. That's 32d6 (8d6 bludgeoning + 24d6 fire) damage right there with no save, if I'm reading the spell description right. On top of all the damage he'd taken previously (which, from his injuries, looks to be a fair bit) and any falling damage he'll take if doesn't find away out of this predicament pretty damn quick.

All I can say is thank god for dramatic license. :smalleek:

How much damage has Roy taken before #442? One Finger of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html) (fort. save successful), another unknown spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) (Finger of Death again?), and three Hobgoblin arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0425.html).
So if he's lucky, he might be ok. Until he hits the ground. :smalleek:

[Hinton]

Freaking sweet comic, Giant; and it's early! Very nice cliffhanger for the weekend.

[Moral Wiz]

Wow. Not only early OoTS, but brilliant OoTS too.Now I'm really looking forward to SoD.

Also,this comic has turned me to the dark side, I am now backing Xykon and co to win the fight. GO TEAM EVIL!!!:xykon:

[Crusher]

Hmm. I can see Roy getting saved by the Booty Talisman, but I think Belkar's huge mound of dead hobgoblins is more likely.

I was initially a little perplexed by Xykon's diplomatic response to Roy attacking him. I mean, sure, Xykon enjoys a good joke (especially his own) as much or even more than the next person/lich and certainly enjoys toying with his opponents before killing them, but the "killing them" aspect usually is as important as the "toying with" part.

However, Xykon had two reasons to let Roy live. First, Xykon knows showmanship and dramatic build up, and really enjoys them. Since Roy is the lead PC, Xykon sees the potential for an epic-level and epic-plot importance showdown a couple years in the future and is willing to pass up killing him now for the future battle-royale (which Xykon would probably be pretty confident of winning, as casters at high levels tend to thump fighters).

Second, Xykon is forgetful, but he probably remembers that Roy managed to blow him up. Xykon has his eyes on the prize of world domination, and neutralizing (without wasting resources) an enemy that had been able to stop him before probably seemed like a good way to go. Now, Xykon is out his dragon zombie (which he liked), had to blow a 9th level spell, and he probably didn't even manage to kill Roy.

[synnerman]

I...I...I think I have been converted: HAIL UNDEAD OVERLOARD OF TEH AWESOME!

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Oooh I just noticed a continuity error. In the first two tall panels, we can see a white line (presumably where the robes have been cut open judging by the way they appear when Roy attacks Xykon). However, in the Meteor Swarm panel, Xykon's robes are fully intact! :smalltongue:
How much damage has Roy taken before #442? One Finger of Death (fort. save successful), another unknown spell (Finger of Death again?), and three Hobgoblin arrows.
So if he's lucky, he might be ok. Until he hits the ground. Aye, but each of those Finger of Deaths is a good 3d6 + caster level damage, which in the case of a high-level Sorc like Xykon is a good 30-odd damage.

Besides, it's all a moot point really as we're over-looking a certain bonus feat that all of the OotSers have: Plot Immunity :smallwink: We all know he's going to survive, really.

...I hope. :smalleek:

[Fred Fumblrol]

Since Rich is obviously feeling better, is there a possibility for a Friday twofer?
Please?

[Dabble]

Well, first I'm glad to see a strip today, and so early! I was one of the many suggesting that the Giant take the day off and rest up. It surprised me to see Xykon actually talking with Roy, because up until this point Roy was more a bother than anything else. I would also love to know what Xykon was going to say when Roy attacked him.

Seemed like it was a go away kid, you bother me. Come back in a few years when you are stronger. type of bit.

Looking forward to Monday.

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Since Rich is obviously feeling better, is there a possibility for a Friday twofer?
Please? I don't see why. For a start this comic is already double-length, and we haven't missed any strips this week. Sure, the Monday one was a day late, but we still got it.

Besides, it's an utterly brilliant weekend cliffhanger, what with the strip ending with the main character falling to almost certain death. I bet Rich is relishing torturing his adoring fans like this; I'm starting to think he might be Lawful Evil. :smalltongue:

[Mummy king]

Just to reiterate:

Rich Burlew.
Draws.
Like.
Sex.

[Mummy king]

Just to reiterate:

Rich Burlew.
Draws.
Like.
Sex.

Edit: Oops, double post.

[Friv]

I've got to say that Factor Three is a very good factor. I may have to include it in a few arguments in the future.

[Earendill]

32d6 can after all mean just 32 damage :) (a 1 in 6^32 chance but still) otherwise it's an average of 32*3.5 = 112.

Roy has 13 d10 HP - that's an average of 13*5.5 = 71.5...

He survived a Finger of Death previously....thats 3d6 + 20 = 23-38 damage.

Assuming he was very lucky on HD rolls and has 100 HP, very lucky on the Finger of death (23 damage), then he needs a really kucky draw on the meteor swarm too (under 77 damage). Bottom line - Roy is a very lucky guy to have his eyes not Xed :smallbiggrin: He cannot die, that's for sure.

Now for the falling damage...Several theories were suggested:

- V will cast feather fall on him (he is somewhere above V after all)
- He will land on Belkar's hobo mountain.
- He'll use the talisman (after all, a flyer with some healing is exactly what he needs right now)


However my take is ...

- V will see him falling fom far away and regret he's not in range for feather fall
- then Belkar will see him falling from far away and worry about recovering his ring
- Roy will try to use the talisman ..."Sorry, I'm not at home...please leave a message..'
- then he will land on the Huecuva (or the eye) - the next 2-3 strips will be used for their confrontation with the other OOTS members :smallsmile:

[Loyal2NES]

And this is why I've never cared for Lawful Good much. It leads to stupid things like this--Roy was given a chance to fall back in a situation that held no favor for him (Even if he beat Xykon there, then what? Fly on a directionless dragon? Fall?), and in the name of vengeance (And possibly ego), he refused.

That's right, fall back. Xykon is so hedonistic, that he offered a fighter--who has defeated him before--at his absolute mercy--an opportunity to follow the "Person is spared out of mercy, and in vengeance gets a lot stronger and beats the main villain" route. Xykon would never make a decent Evil Overlord. :smallannoyed:

Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil characters for the win!

He should've taken the offer, regrouped with his pals, and then strike down Xykon from there.

Of course, now it falls on the talisman--As certain posters have stated to make me realize prematurely. :smallfurious:

[EDIT]: Get it? Falls on the talisman?

[Silver Agent]

Roy is a high level fighter. They don't seem to mention lots of magical items, but they seem to be as powerful as high level folks anyway. Thus he should have another (13*3) = 39HP from Con, at the very least. He has a 'lowish' base Con as I recall, and probably should at that level have a +4 Amulet of Health or something similar.

If *I* were Roy, it'd be a +6, but I like hit points. A lot. :)

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

You neglecting one thing, Earendill, and that's extra HP due to Roy's CON modifier. Then again, that's probably at most only another 39 HP and most likely not even that - what with his high strength and generally good mental stats, he probably didn't have many points left over for constitution.

Like I say though, it's pointless getting bogged down in numerical analysis as this is a comic, not an actual session. :smalltongue:

As for how he's going to get out of it, of the theories suggested I favour the talisman one myself.
EDIT: Spoilered my falling speculation. It's nothing that hasn't been stated before in plain text, but it's the thought that counts.

Also, I hadn't considered CON-boosting magic items in my first paragraph, but oh well. We don't see the Order get many magic items, but doesn't mean they aren't buying them off-screen. Then again, how much money do they have? There was that huge hoard, but most of that got blown up and I don't want to be the one that wants to ask Haley if maybe she could share perhaps just a little bit of what's left, please?

[Porthos]

If there were ever any doubt that Caster beats Fighter, dispel them now. :D

Well, I will certainly concede that a LVL 20/Epic Sorcerer-Lich can toast a LVL 13 Fighter.

Then again, a LVL 20/Epic anything should be able to toast a LVL 13 anything. :smallamused:

[jindra34]

Well, I will certainly concede that a LVL 20/Epic Sorcerer-Lich can toast a LVL 13 Fighter.

Then again, a LVL 20/Epic anything should be able to toast a LVL 13 anything. :smallamused:

hmm.. you saying a lvl 20 commoner could toast Roy... hmmm... i think not but hey your call...

[Dragontail]

The twists and turns in this battle are just awesome. Excellent work as usual!

[Casinodwarf]

:roy: Certainly looks boned.

Maybe :xykon: Will be nice to him and raise him as a zombie...

[fizzbang]

Roy lost his temper and acted quite like Miko there actually....

A bit, maybe. Except in in that way that he was actually being heroic and fighting an evil enemy who was a legitimate threat to the lives of an entire city of people. Y'know, instead of going against his earthly and divine vows, killing a defenseless old man whose only crime was being manipulative in the pursuit of the greater good.

Other than that, yeah, he was acting a lot like Miko.

[chibibar]

You know what is kinda interesting? Xykon is actually on top of things than he lets on :) sometimes I think Xykon just let his boredom takes the better part of him but looks like Xykon knows what is going on around him and his "enemies that he won't get xp from"

[Crusher]

Roy probably doesn't have much more than a 12 CON, but he's commented at least once in the past about having a lot of hp, so he may well have gotten lucky on his HP rolls and/or have taken Toughness.

[Killer Munchkin]

Go, team evil!!!!!!

eh...... sorry, I meant:

Nooooooooooo!!!!!! Rooooooooooyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!

[Blood]

Ohsnap! Roy!

[Ave]

Roy cannot afford the luxury of landing on anything. I think he can count his own HPs on one hand. Either booty talisman, or V might cast feather fall on him too, as pay back.

[Porthos]

And this is why I've never cared for Lawful Good much. It leads to stupid things like this--Roy was given a chance to fall back in a situation that held no favor for him (Even if he beat Xykon there, then what? Fly on a directionless dragon? Fall?), and in the name of vengeance (And possibly ego), he refused.

Yeah, and I'm quite sure that all of the people that Xykon kills in the meantime would have meant nothing to Roy. :smalltongue:

Sometimes being Good means sacrificing yourself in a helpless situation. Who knows, you might get lucky. And, if Xykon sticks around on the battlefield, perhaps the damage that Roy did will make it easier for the next person to kill Xykon. After all, it ain't called self-sacrifice for nothing, you know. :smallsmile:

As for your spoiler point: There is a decent chance that Xykon will be long gone by the time Roy would have regrouped all of his freinds. So all of the people Xykon killed would have been on his conscience. Here he can say, presuming he survives, "At least I tried - Now I really know what I am up against and I can plan more accordingly."

[pendell]

Way Kewl, Giant! You haven't lost your touch.

Folks .. we DON'T KNOW that Roy won't die.


Does anyone remember a certain prophecy?

And didn't Belkar give him that ring of jumping, causing this whole sequence of events?


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Porthos]

hmm.. you saying a lvl 20 commoner could toast Roy... hmmm... i think not but hey your call...

Hey, he's already been schooled by a high level Aristocrat. :smalltongue:

[jindra34]

Hey, he's already been schooled by a high level Aristocrat. :smalltongue:

Aristocrat has more hp better attack bouns and is all around better... imagine a wizard wothout spells/ bonus feats/familar/good will saves and you get a commoner... the most pitiful class...

[Runolfr]

Rich: You are an evil, cold-blooded, cliff-hanger-writing son of a succubus.

Good job.

[fizzbang]

And this is why I've never cared for Lawful Good much. It leads to stupid things like this--Roy was given a chance to fall back in a situation that held no favor for him (Even if he beat Xykon there, then what? Fly on a directionless dragon? Fall?), and in the name of vengeance (And possibly ego), he refused.

I think he pretty clearly spelled out why he was continuing to fight Xykon. And even if it was a bit cheesy to say out loud, it was a mighty good reason - definitely more laudable than simple egotism or vengeance.

Now, I can definitely agree that he was being a bit overconfident. Then again, last time they fought, the actual fight was over pretty quick. I guess he can't rely on punching a lich's head off every time. And really, you need a bit of overconfidence when you're a fighter - or any adventurer, really.

Oh, and since I forgot to do so in the last post: Rich, this was an astounding comic and a great cliffhanger for the weekend! Rest up and enjoy the weekend - you've definitely earned it!

[Axl_Rose]

Ouch. Poor Roy. Too LG for his own good.
Roy deserved it, though I was looking forward to something more repetitive and painful.

well, meteor swarm still looked cool.

Wooo! Take that Roy! Attacking while he's trying to talk with polite reasoning... hell yeah I'm cheering for Xykon!

[Poeir]

Everyone's forgetting something in their damage calculations.

Roy has spell resistance 25. Durkon cast Spell Resistance on him back in OOTS 429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), and is assumedly 13th level. *Way* back in OOTS 124 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0124.html) it was established that the PCs all have roughly equivalent amounts of XP (except Belkar, who's even further behind by now, I'm sure). Vaarsuvius is 13th level, based on the number of creatures enchanted in OOTS 427 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html). And meteor swarm does allow for SR (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellResistance.htm). If Xykon is eight levels higher than Roy (21), that gives a 3/20 shot of the SR kicking in. It's not much, but it's better than the no saving throw.

Not only that, but meteor swarm has to succeed in a ranged touch attack. Since the dragon took some of the damage, at least one of them had to miss. Plus, Xykon's just demented enough to shoot at the dragon instead.

[Kingrat]

Noooooooooooo!!!! Not Roy!!!!!!

[laggerific]

I wonder who Roy is going to kill when he lands....

Perhaps he will be saved by Celia, or will land near that seer...what's her name...she can heal, right?

[katana2665]

Heck, they could have just landed and had a picnic overlooking the battefield, I mean wasn't that the entertainment during the Civil War? We know that Roy will survive (he's lived through everything else and without him who could wield his heavy sword?), but seriously, I think he should have just ...'Walked away"...

"Just walk away, leave the pump, the oil, and the whole compound and I'll spare your lives...just walk away..."

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Not only that, but meteor swarm has to succeed in a ranged touch attack. Since the dragon took some of the damage, at least one of them had to miss. Plus, Xykon's just demented enough to shoot at the dragon instead. If I'm reading the spell description right ("Once a sphere reaches its destination, it explodes"), even if a meteor hits its target every creature in a 40ft-radius gets the 6d6 fire damage, so all of them could hit Roy and the dragon would still take 24d6 fire damage (reflex for half).

I can't argue with the second point though. :smalltongue:

[The Stray]

Way Kewl, Giant! You haven't lost your touch.

Folks .. we DON'T KNOW that Roy won't die.


Does anyone remember a certain prophecy?

And didn't Belkar give him that ring of jumping, causing this whole sequence of events?


Respectfully,

Brian P.

I registered to point our that very thing. Ninja'd! :smallfrown:

[Setra]

This was pretty awesome. On both sides, sucks for Roy though.

[GTRanger]

I just want to say, this comic made me register and post. I've been following the comic since I found it at...probably page <100 somewhere?

At any rate, I'm no fan of badguys winning, nor really anti-Roy, but seeing Xykon own Roy like that feels so SO satisfying it's amazing.

Awesome comic, Giant. :)

[Goblin Music]

beware the falling Ham!

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

I'm kinda disturbed that people thought someone who was basically going to fight against all odds to try and protect the lives of all he thought dear- is an idiot that deserved what he got.

Look, Xykon is funny, but he's not right, by any means. He's the bad-guy.

Roy did something very heroic. And if you're chastising him...well, I don't know what more you want from someone.

[the_tick_rules]

I hear the mage-lovers salivating over this strip already. Though that offer was pretty generous of xykon, not that I didn't know Roy was gonna say no before I read it.

[K2]

bye-bye roy, nice knowing you

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

^ ^ ^ Bah! Noble, self-sacrificing heroes are so passé these days; they just aren't cool any more. It's all about the brooding, angsty anti-heroes with their dark inner turmoil and their ignoble, ulterior ambitions and spiky anime hair these days. :smalltongue:

[Rift_Wolf]

Great comic Giant.

I'm guessing now would be a good time for Roy to use his talismin. Either that or Belkar has now caused the death of Roy.

How in 57 different varieties of Heinz-based Hell do you figure Belkar caused that death!? If Roy dies, his carcass will have 'XYKON' written through it like a stick of gooey rock! Unless Roy falls onto Belkars blades, which is so cheap I want to dump myself right now for suggesting it...

It's been a while since we had a good weekend cliffhanger. It's rare I actually try to speed up time with the force of my own will....Roll on tuesday...

[knownaspirate]

. . . pwnd. . .

[malakim2099]

I'm kinda disturbed that people thought someone who was basically going to fight against all odds to try and protect the lives of all he thought dear- is an idiot that deserved what he got.

Look, Xykon is funny, but he's not right, by any means. He's the bad-guy.

Roy did something very heroic. And if you're chastising him...well, I don't know what more you want from someone.

QFT.

As far as meteor swarm goes...

It's pretty likely that Xykon aimed directly for the zombie dragon with the touch attack. I mean, the touch AC for that beast has to be ridiculously low, AND it guarantees it won't save, thus not surviving long enough for Roy to get down somehow. Thus, if the meteor swarm blast doesn't kill him, the fall will. Xykon is assuming, of course, someone doesn't save him.

Besides, I look at Xykon's speech as the DM trying to cut the PC some slack. :smallcool:

[jindra34]

As far as meteor swarm goes...

It's pretty likely that Xykon aimed directly for the zombie dragon with the touch attack. I mean, the touch AC for that beast has to be ridiculously low, AND it guarantees it won't save, thus not surviving long enough for Roy to get down somehow. Thus, if the meteor swarm blast doesn't kill him, the fall will. Xykon is assuming, of course, someone doesn't save him.

Besides, I look at Xykon's speech as the DM trying to cut the PC some slack. :smallcool:

QFT... or a least sensibility...

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

How in 57 different varieties of Heinz-based Hell do you figure Belkar caused that death!? If Roy dies, his carcass will have 'XYKON' written through it like a stick of gooey rock! Unless Roy falls onto Belkars blades, which is so cheap I want to dump myself right now for suggesting it... Well, Roy wouldn't have been able to get on the dragon if it weren't for Belkar lending him the Ring of Jumping, but to my mind a technicality like that would be almost as cheap and unsatisfying as your suggestion.

[Pantler]

...Cute.
I HATE it when that happens.
Nice lighting effects, by the way.

[Jazzvader]

It was early I normally get it at 4 in the morning on saturday and I got it at 6:40

[MandibleBones]

^ ^ ^ Bah! Noble, self-sacrificing heroes are so passé these days; they just aren't cool any more. It's all about the brooding, angsty anti-heroes with their dark inner turmoil and their ignoble, ulterior ambitions and spiky anime hair these days. :smalltongue:

"And I'm almost out of that nancy-boy hair gel I love so much!"

[SupraGuy]

Wht an awesome day I'm having. My OOtS books arrived this morning (Ordered just before the announcement of Start of Darkness was announced, so I have to wait for that one.) and now a 2 1/2 length strip. Woot!

[Aliquid]

I'm kinda disturbed that people thought someone who was basically going to fight against all odds to try and protect the lives of all he thought dear- is an idiot that deserved what he got.

Look, Xykon is funny, but he's not right, by any means. He's the bad-guy.

Roy did something very heroic. And if you're chastising him...well, I don't know what more you want from someone.Roy's problem is that he did what he always does.... doesn't listen and acts rashly.

Roy's behaviour was foolhardy, not heroic.

[whmice]

you call that a meteor swarm? it barely a fireball

[Gitman00]

Way Kewl, Giant! You haven't lost your touch.

Folks .. we DON'T KNOW that Roy won't die.


Does anyone remember a certain prophecy?

And didn't Belkar give him that ring of jumping, causing this whole sequence of events?


Respectfully,

Brian P.

Roy's still conscious, and he still has his not-a-booty-talisman. I'm thinking Belkar's prophecy doesn't come true today...

Threw me for a loop, though! And shows the truth of the matter... Roy's first defeat of Xykon was an utter fluke. Our favorite Lich with Attention Deficit Disorder just ate Roy's lunch without even trying.

[Simons Mith]

You know I just thought of something...

Roy isnt worth any EXP to Xykon....

Hahaha! That made me laugh harder than the comic!

[Jaysyn]

If he's conscious, Roy summons Celia who can slow his fall. If not hit hits the ocean / river & is lost for a bit...

Roy can't die (just yet)

[Jaysyn]

In case anyone was wondering, Roy is looking at anywhere between 40 & 388 HP worth of damage.

[Annon]

Has anyone even stopped to consider that Xykon might have been making a bluff check rather than a diplomacy check? As in "Let me lend you a hand...no...then how about a finger? Finger of Death!"

Roy would be moronic trust trust the lich to let him go when it's equally convenient to just squish 'em. A deal like that has double-cross written all over it...

[malakim2099]

Roy's problem is that he did what he always does.... doesn't listen and acts rashly.

Roy's behaviour was foolhardy, not heroic.

Actually, he wasn't acting rashly. If he lets Xykon go unchecked, there's a good chance he'll make mincemeat of the paladins in the tower. He did listen to what Xykon was saying, but he realized giving the world over to a CE lich isn't exactly a LG thing to do. What else was he supposed to do? Trust Xykon at his word?

Not like Xykon would mislead people about this stuff, right? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html) :smallamused:

[Milandros]

Yes, Roy was probably foolish. If he were sensible he'd break that oath immediately. At his level he can make a much higher income with very little risk raiding selected temples and merchant caravans, and he certainly could make a lot of money for not much risk by talking to the Azure City nobles and murdering Hinjo for them.

He was irrational, too, fighting something so much stronger than him. He could have just backed down and surrendered, like people suggest. After all, that's what happens in most action movies - remember John McClane in Die Hard, when he skipped out of the building to save his own skin? Or Indiana Jones handing the Ark of the Covenant over to the Nazis meekly and heading back to the USA? Or a certain 300 spartans backing away from the pass and starting a hit and run campaign against the enemy's supply train while avoiding casualties? Or Ellen Ripley realising that saving Newt was impossible and pretty much suicidal and heading back to the ship instead?

Arrogance, as well. He should realise that fighter types can't match casters and just surrender. Plus villains are cooler, and he should realise that and show them the proper deference. And who does he think he is, trying to save the world like that - he should just back off and let someone else do it, not start taking responsibility for stuff. That's, like, lawful, and boring, dude. Being responsible and stuff. Yeah.

Right.

Fortunately Roy is a hero. He doesn't rationalise things away with a "oh well, those innocents will probably die anyway". If there were some Elminster-type megamage around to hand responsibility for Xykon over to, perhaps he'd do it, but there isn't. If he doesn't try to stop Xykon, nobody will. He's extremely close in character to Richard Cypher/Rahl from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. Hero's don't always do the "smart" thing and let the bad guy win.

He got into a fight to try to stop a monstrous, evil entity who will butcher thousands and likely scar the world forever - or even destroy it - knowing that he was overmatched and would very likely die, but believing that someone had to try and there was no one else who could.

Sounds like a great definition of a genuine hero to me.

[Turcano]

"Factor One: I can fly under my own power, thanks to the overland flight spell I cast this morning. Factor Two: A zombie dragon that lacks a bite attack isn't especially valuable to me. Factor Three: Meteor swarm."

That's why you don't screw with spellcasters, kids.

[happyturtle]

Roy! No!!!!!!


If Roy wasn't Lawful, he could have agreed to Xykon's terms and then tackled him once they were on the ground to get him off the dragon. Of course, Xykon still would have flown away, but since Roy hasn't seen the cover of Start of Darkness, he couldn't really take that into consideration.

I don't know how Booty Talismans work, but can it really pop her into place in less time than it will take him to hit the ground? What if she were in the shower? Or asleep? Or in the middle of a law exam?

[jindra34]

Roy! No!!!!!!


If Roy wasn't Lawful, he could have agreed to Xykon's terms and then tackled him once they were on the ground to get him off the dragon. Of course, Xykon still would have flown away, but since Roy hasn't seen the cover of Start of Darkness, he couldn't really take that into consideration.

I don't know how Booty Talismans work, but can it really pop her into place in less time than it will take him to hit the ground? What if she were in the shower? Or asleep? Or in the middle of a law exam?

That's why we have V for a plan B, and the mound of hobs for a plan c, and the tower for a plan d...

[moleytov]

and the powers of plot/comedic effect for plans e through x(ykon)

[chionophile]

Ooh, that last panel makes a nice bookend to the one of Roy jumping on the dragon in 430 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html). Nicely done, Giant.

[Wiggle]

What I think :roy: needs here is the '60s Batman escape clause.

In the 1960's Batman Movie the Batcopter is winged by a missile and is hurtling towards a certain fiery impact.

Cut to the next scene with Batman and Robin clambering over a pile of mattresses and Robin saying, "It's a good thing we landed at this Foam Rubber Wholesaler's Convention , Batman".

Batman replys, "Yes, Robin I saw it out of the corner of my eye"

Does Azure City have a good line of plump softy plushy mattress vendors - cause sure as eggs is oeufs :roy:'s going need a pillow or seven hundred.

[jindra34]

What I think :roy: needs here is the '60s Batman escape clause.

In the 1960's Batman Movie the Batcopter is winged by a missile and is hurtling towards a certain fiery impact.

Cut to the next scene with Batman and Robin clambering over a pile of mattresses and Robin saying, "It's a good thing we landed at this Foam Rubber Wholesaler's Convention , Batman".

Batman replys, "Yes, Robin I saw it out of the corner of my eye"

Does Azure City have a good line of plump softy plushy mattress vendors - cause sure as eggs is oeufs :roy:'s going need a pillow or seven hundred.

Thats what the pile of hobs plan c is about...

[Valley]

I am beginning to think that Xykon is smarter than he looks. When not sitting in front of the Crystal Ball with a bowl of popcorn drowning in melted butter.

[Stormthorn]

Has the wikipedia entry bit about Xykon been updated to include this?

[Snake-Aes]

Xykon is REALLY badass, no discussion on that anymore =D

[ladysekhmetka]

DAM U RICH!!!!!! T.T Can it be Monday already?

::takes deep breath::

Right-o, love the halfling comment.

[jindra34]

Xykon is REALLY badass, no discussion on that anymore =D

We knew that back when the story of the crown...

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Humorous ways for Roy to get out of this:

1: Roy lands on either the slope of dead hobgoblins formed by the Death Knight, or on the pile of hobgoblins Belkar created. Kind of like hitting a stuntman's air-bag...

2: Roy grabs the "Booty Amulet," and summons Celia, who both rescues him, and heals him enough to get him back into the fight. Since Belkar is about to find himself in a second fight, this time against even more hobbos, and probably the hecuva AND the Fear and Fire as well. One liners fill the air...

3: The cliffhanger CONTINUES as all the "We want Durokon! fanboys (and fangirls) get their wish! A few days of waiting to find out what happens to Roy will have this board totally FREAKING!

How mean is Rich?

[Querzis]

Yes, Roy was probably foolish. If he were sensible he'd break that oath immediately. At his level he can make a much higher income with very little risk raiding selected temples and merchant caravans, and he certainly could make a lot of money for not much risk by talking to the Azure City nobles and murdering Hinjo for them.

He was irrational, too, fighting something so much stronger than him. He could have just backed down and surrendered, like people suggest. After all, that's what happens in most action movies - remember John McClane in Die Hard, when he skipped out of the building to save his own skin? Or Indiana Jones handing the Ark of the Covenant over to the Nazis meekly and heading back to the USA? Or a certain 300 spartans backing away from the pass and starting a hit and run campaign against the enemy's supply train while avoiding casualties? Or Ellen Ripley realising that saving Newt was impossible and pretty much suicidal and heading back to the ship instead?

Arrogance, as well. He should realise that fighter types can't match casters and just surrender. Plus villains are cooler, and he should realise that and show them the proper deference. And who does he think he is, trying to save the world like that - he should just back off and let someone else do it, not start taking responsibility for stuff. That's, like, lawful, and boring, dude. Being responsible and stuff. Yeah.

Right.

Fortunately Roy is a hero. He doesn't rationalise things away with a "oh well, those innocents will probably die anyway". If there were some Elminster-type megamage around to hand responsibility for Xykon over to, perhaps he'd do it, but there isn't. If he doesn't try to stop Xykon, nobody will. He's extremely close in character to Richard Cypher/Rahl from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. Hero's don't always do the "smart" thing and let the bad guy win.

He got into a fight to try to stop a monstrous, evil entity who will butcher thousands and likely scar the world forever - or even destroy it - knowing that he was overmatched and would very likely die, but believing that someone had to try and there was no one else who could.

Sounds like a great definition of a genuine hero to me.

Yeah but not everyone is good here so many people cant understand that Roy woudnt let lots of innocent die and Xykon take over the world even if it kill him. The line: «Evil win because good is dumb» is obviously from an evil person. As far as I'm concerned it should be: «Good win because good is ready to die to stop evil».

[Lemur]

you call that a meteor swarm? it barely a fireball

I agree. Xykon needs to get his hands on some better special effects for his spells.

I mean, this comic proves once again what a great villain he is, but his fighting style is a bit underwhelming.

[eilandesq]

In fairness to Roy, he couldn't know that Xykon had cast Overland Flight on himself; in fact, the fact that he was using the zombie dragon rather than simply slipping in himself under cover of Invisibility would have tended to suggest that Xykon *didn't* have access to another form of flight--and he hadn't flown in the battle at RedMountain, so there was no indication there. If his attacks had knocked Xykon off the dragon--or, better yet, if he had tried to target the wings and the effort had sent both of them falling while Roy still had most of his hit points--with Xykon having no other method of flight, his approach would have worked fine. Sorcerers have limited spells--Roy had no reason to expect that Xykon had that particular rather useful one as part of his selection when there were clues suggesting otherwise.

[starwoof]

I dunno, Im still teary after laughing so hard at the last 4 panels. :smallbiggrin:

[tobian]

Ya know, I think actually that Durkon was the one that saved him. Look back a few comics at the spells Durkon cast on him right before he made the jump.


Any of those spells Xylon casted could of had no effect due to spell to Roy's temporary spell resistance (ignoring the visible effects)


Though that wouldnt explain how he will survive the fall...

[Tobz]

Whatever Roy's rescue's gonna be, I'm guessing it's gonna be something 3/4 of a page worth of awesomeness.

I'd wish people would not indulge themselves to much in spoilering whatever happens next. I'd love to see Roy being rescued by his booty talisman, but since we know Rich reads all these posts and likes to fool around with our expectations, I'm betting it's gonna be something different.

On a sidenote: for someone with a 'very good' intelligence, Lawfull Good sure comes with a INT penalty for Roy when it comes to 'how to deal with lich sorcerers flying zombiedragons' :smallbiggrin:

[jindra34]

Whatever Roy's rescue's gonna be, I'm guessing it's gonna be something 3/4 of a page worth of awesomeness.

I'd wish people would not indulge themselves to much in spoilering whatever happens next. I'd love to see Roy being rescued by his booty talisman, but since we know Rich reads all these posts and likes to fool around with our expectations, I'm betting it's gonna be something different.

Thats why i pretty muched covered every way for roy to be saved...

[xyzchyx]

Why did Roy let go of his sword when he got zapped?

Is that a rule?

[Tobz]

Thats why i pretty muched covered every way for roy to be saved...

Yet Rich manages to twist and turn the story to make even fun of every suggestion the forum can throw at him. This has 'weather control' written all over it (which i liked, btw).

[Laesin]

To those predicting Roy's death via Belkar's prophecy, it could well happen but nothing in the wording of his question requires that Roy staydead.

[Sethis]

Alright, understandably a lot of people here are going to hate me for this, but really, I don't care.

I think Roy should die here.

Not permanently, mind you. But at least for the rest of the battle. This comes from my experience of playing and DMing D&D, and as well as a reader of hundreds of fantasy, mystery, and other novels.

The thing is, it's just not realistic. Before anyone says anything about realism in a fantasy world, finish reading this. I mean realistic in the way of any story. It is understandable that any writer trys to keep the heroes alive so they can triumph, but as Xykon has pointed out here, it's just not likely to happen. They can't win, and sometimes the party has to realize that the hard way.

That's not the only problem however, as illustrated by what half the people have been saying here with their "plan(s) a-x" for keeping Roy alive. This much DM/Writer fudging of reality to suit the life of the star character is counterproductive to the story. In a world where even death is a temporary inconvienence, how useless is it for a character who never will die, no matter the circumstances?

Imagine how different your life would be if you knew you couldn't die. Suddenly heroic actions are a lot less heroic since "self-sacrifice" only applies if there is a chance that you will actually suffer from it. Sure, he can't beat Xykon, but it seems that it's pretty much impossible for Xykon to beat him too despite him being "like 7 or 8 levels lower".

As for the Lawful Good argument, there is a reason that this alignment is lauded as providing more stupid than any other alignment. Sacrificing your life is all well and good if it will actually amount to something. As it is, assuming Xykon flies off to Redcloak now and gets him to cast "Harm", that will return him to full HP and cost basically nothing. I'd think if the main character is going to die he'd want to die more spectacularly, but thats exactly what Xykon was proposing. As to the innocents, yes, it would not be a good act to allow them to die, but as we have seen, all roy just accomplished was changing Xykon's Kill List from:

Innocent 1
Innocent 2
Innocent 3-998
Roy.

To:

Roy
Innocent 1
Innocent 2
Innocent 3-998.

He hasn't really accomplished anything. Xykon is a sorcerer, if he cast greater invisibility once, he can do it again now and sneak past the rest of the OOTS and the castle fairly easily. Ghostform makes it even easier.

Roy's death here would make his sacrifice worthwhile. Azure City might fall, but he (if he comes back) would be more determined, and stronger, next time. If he never suffers any permanent setback from fighting Xykon, he is never going to learn anything, and there will never be a sense of impending danger behind any encounter for him, or for us the readers. This is the difference between good works of fiction and bad ones. As a D&D example, as soon as your players learn that you will fudge it always so they wont die, they will become unmanageable FAST, and the game will get boring since there is never any real threat. On the other hand, showing them a BBEG (Big Bad Evil Guy) early, and having him fight them half asedly, but still dominate them, will force them to realize that this is way beyond them and run. This will make them more determined to win in the future. Its a great start for a campaign. As a fantasy example, lets look at the Lord of the Rings, if any of the main characters are going to die in a novel like that, normally its right at the end under heroic circumstances that save the world. However, not even 1/3rd of the way through the trilogy, Boromir is already dead and the party has split for the rest of the time. These are the real moments of suspense, now that we know they can and will die if they screw up, it makes the rest of the series that much more gripping (especially setting up well Frodo's "death" in Shelob's Cave).

So, yeah. That's my take. And before anyone says anything about how good should always triumph and how fantasy isn't reality, I don't claim to be Lawful or Good, hell I'm at best True Neutral, but the best stories are the ones where good only barely wins, and at high cost, especially if evil is so much more powerful.

As an aside, Xykon, if he is any good, has Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration as feats, they are basically required at higher levels, this means he will always bypass SR 25, even on a roll of 1. (CL 20+ 4 Greater Penetration)

[InuSaga]

Gah! There is a special place in hell for writers who utilize cliffhanger endings!

Roy! *sob* Roy . . . .

Hello, he's still got the booty amulet and Celia can totally fly! No biggie.

[Blaznak]

AAAAHhhhhhhhhhh! This was a SWEET comic. I loved the banter. It was fantastic! The logic was great for both guys! Nice! Very well done...

[Swashbuckler]

While I love Xykon in all of his evil goodness (!), I cannot help but scream out in frustration:

"ROY! NOOoooooooooo!" :smalleek:

That being said ...

Xykon is THE baddest, evil-est mamby-jahamby on the planet! :biggrin:

[IamJoseph]

Didn't they cast Greater Dispel Magic on Xykon in strip 429 take care of Overland Flight? Or are we using W. E. Coyote's law of cartoon inertia?

[jindra34]

Didn't they cast Greater Dispel Magic on Xykon in strip 429 take care of Overland Flight? Or are we using W. E. Coyote's law of cartoon inertia?

Greater Dispel requires a roll per spell... Durkon probably failed to Dispel Overland Flight...

[Solmage]

Damn nice strip.. and hell of a cliffhanger.

[dutch508]

Ahahahahahaha!!!!


Luv It!!!

[SaiKar]

I've been a long time reader and lurker on these forums, but this one finally coaxed me out of the shadows to say WOW.

This comic pretty much sums up why :xykon: Xykon is one of the best villains I've ever seen: he's quirky yet competant. He has a personality that makes him act strangely sometimes, but it doesn't get in the way of him being an evil overlord. He's a very real character, not in the sense that I expect to see him walk down my street, but in the sense that he is extremely well developed and believable, and yet is portrayed as a stick figure of a walking skeleton!

I was wearing a hat until a minute ago, but for a moment, my hat is off to you Giant. This is comic excellence.

As for Roy, I think I'm supposed to use spoiler tags even though it's just a guess at the future, which... doesn't make much sense to me. And I don't see them in the menu so I'll just have to guess at the tag...

I think :roy: Roy is actually in trouble, and not in the sort of trouble that V was in a few comics ago. Xykon's spell must have hurt badly and falling from a great height won't tickle either. If we're getting a wide panel illustrating his limp body falling, that's probably a sign he's either going to die or it's going to take a deliberate and possibly dangerous effort to save him. Either result would satisfy me.

[Warbanner]

Here's a possibly silly question, and one that really pertains more to the recent set of Xykon/Roy strips generally than to this one in particular, but now seems as right a time to ask as any:

Why has Xykon been wasting his time with Roy?
I mean, if his plan was to not be spotted at all, and make an undeterred run at the gate, then why, once spotted, does he:
1) Not kill Roy right off
2) Fly the dragon around in circles, wasting time, and potentially attracting more attention to himself
3) Offer to stop and let Roy off

I mean, is he THAT confident in his unstoppability that he's willing to chuck his whole plan out the window? And why, especially if he really doesn't remember who Roy is?

Sure, you could say it's just because it serves the story and allows for some extra strips, but it just seems *wrong* to me. Even while everything has to serve the story (as Rich rightly has pointed out before), the story requires some internal logic and consistency. So what, I ask you, is Xykon up to?

[kreszantas]

its like 10-2 good guys... the DK scored a point...

Actually its 10-3 ... dont forget the Ti Golems ruining the walls

[Rai Thunder]

At last, Roy has another decent reason to go after Xykon, other than the fact that the undead lich goes around killing innocent people!

If Roy died now, then that wouldn't really support the prophecy - but then again, there must be those resurrection tools left lying around from the unsuccessful Shojo resurrection...

InuSaga had a good idea though, I'll agree with that.

[Hushdawg]

Oh Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii................... .................................................. ...

<thump>

:D

[DougWykstra]

So, I'm guessing this has already been asked, but anyone know the range for Feather Fall offhand?

[jindra34]

So, I'm guessing this has already been asked, but anyone know the range for Feather Fall offhand?

Its close range...

[Rai Thunder]

Its close range...

Thus making the likelihood of it saving him somewhat slim.

He's gonna be a pancake! :D

[StickMan]

So Roy is dead. Think his sister is ready to take up the blood oath.

[Glarx]

Revive for the win?

And the Big Xykon finally has a distinguishing mark... let us see how that plays out, yes?

[TroyXavier]

Die, Roy, die. Go Xykon.....yay.:smallsmile: This was really fun. I loved it.

[Scatman]

Xykon..Scar head thingy...I can see Xykon saying:
VOOOLLLDDEEEMOOOOORRRTTTT!
I think Roy is gonna be whisked away by the magical fried chicken fairy of pot land.
....Or I guess He could just be saved by Durkon...He really hasnt had much of a role in the war....

[YohanLeafheart]

:roy: And what about all the innocents you will kill between now and then?
:xykon: Well now, hold on. Is this about beating me because I'm evil and dangerous and yadda, yadda, yadda... or is it about beating me up because Daddy will be proud of you?

Now that is some great pwnage over there. Wonderful dialogues Giant

[squidly_bard]

i think theat in the next 1-10 comics they should reveal the darkness! i mean come on! he's awsome!

[Loyal2NES]

Rich: You are an evil, cold-blooded, cliff-hanger-writing son of a succubus.

Good job.That WOULD explain the whole "Draws like sex" thing...

[TheBoneSplitter]

I honestly think the fall may be too great for Roy at a seemingly single digit of HP to land safely on the pile of hobbos. V and Durkon are also seemingly out of reach for any spells to save 'im, so I'm supposing either the Booty Talisman or some other farfetched plot juice'll save. Other than all of that, it seems that Xykon's at least scarred Roy, or all the damage Roy went through should probably put him out of the ring for a bit.

Alas, this plot is certainly getting more and more suspenseful...

[Roderick_BR]

At the same time, I can hear an "oh, crap!" and an "oh, yeah!"

I'll go with the "oh crap" one :smalltongue:

[Grasilich]

I personally am hoping that Roy will die. That would be so awesome and unexpected and really up Xykon's badass rating. Plus we've already had one of the main characters (V) rescued by a lame Deus Ex Machina... if Roy gets out of Meteor Swarm to the face + thousand foot drop without dying then I think we can be sure that no one in the party is going to ever die until Durkon's prophecy card comes up (likely towards the very end). Which sucks... who wants heroes that are invincible?

I say let him die and bring him back afterward.

[CDR Grendelwulf]

...unless Roy lands on that large pile of dead Hobgoblins to cushion his fall....

[Scatman]

So theyre invincible?Remeber the time elan was at -9 hp?What about how roy is being pummeled into the negatives?Yeah, they aint no invincibles.

[Fawkes]

Roy! No!

Grab the booty talisman! GRAB THE BOOTY TALISMAN!

Let's just hope that the setup of Celia flying and giving him the talisman was planning ahead for this.

[malagigi]

I saw Roy left some crackage on :xykon: 's skull.
Does that heal?

[SPoD]

Here's a possibly silly question, and one that really pertains more to the recent set of Xykon/Roy strips generally than to this one in particular, but now seems as right a time to ask as any:

Why has Xykon been wasting his time with Roy?
I mean, if his plan was to not be spotted at all, and make an undeterred run at the gate, then why, once spotted, does he:
1) Not kill Roy right off
2) Fly the dragon around in circles, wasting time, and potentially attracting more attention to himself
3) Offer to stop and let Roy off

I mean, is he THAT confident in his unstoppability that he's willing to chuck his whole plan out the window? And why, especially if he really doesn't remember who Roy is?

Sure, you could say it's just because it serves the story and allows for some extra strips, but it just seems *wrong* to me. Even while everything has to serve the story (as Rich rightly has pointed out before), the story requires some internal logic and consistency. So what, I ask you, is Xykon up to?

Entertaining himself. That's Xykon's #1 goal at all times: to keep himself amused. Flying around, bantering back and forth with Roy, was amusing. As long as Roy played the hero-monologue/villain-monologue game, there was no reason to kill him. He didn't get serious about trying to kill Roy until Roy stopped talking or letting him talk.

Remember, it wasn't Xykon's plan, it was Redcloak's. Xykon just wanted to walk up to the Gate and kill everyone, so if he stumbled on a momentary diversion in the form of a would-be hero, why not toy with him for a while? If you're Xykon, the battle is a foregone conclusion in your mind, so why not amuse yourself?

Basically, in order to understand anything Xykon does, you need to forget traditional villain motives and focus on what would amuse him the most in the next ten minutes. Because yes, he really is THAT confident in his unstoppability (and for good reason, since he's the only epic-level character in the entire battle).

[erewhon]

OUCH!

And THAT'S why Xykonis awesome. :)

The only true measure of a hero is his villain. Roy's gotta up his game, that's for sure.

Now, is Roy a goner? Whew....

He's either 13th or 14th level. I'm leaning toward 14 myself. If he rolled well and got 6hp's per level, that's a base of 84.

He has said in comic he "has a lot of hitpoints." All the arguing he has a low Con is unsupported by canon. I'm thinking he likely has a 16 Con, plus Improved Toughness. That gets him an additional 56 hitpoints.


It would be trivially easy for him to have a +4 Con item of some sort at his level. That gets him another 28-ish.

So, at a feasible high-end score, he's looking at 168 hitpoints.

Eeesh.

Now, he's soaked up quite a beating before Xykon alpha-struck him. Two "fingers of death" with made saves is 60+ damage right there. Call it 68.

The meteor strike.... Ouch. The art sure looks like Roy was targeted, and we have little idea what his touch AC is, but it's likely not good, but Xykon is a caster and his base to-hit sucks.

If Roy got hit by a meteor, it's 8d6, no save. If it missed, it's 6d6, save for half. 8d6 no save is average 28 points each. 6d6 is 21 or 10 each.

Max average for the meteor swarm is 112, if Xykon hit with them all. Ouch. (No massive death save, though.)

Min average for the meteor swarm is a measly 40. Roy's fine.

Median, assming Xykon hit with two, but Roy made his saves, is 76. If Roy is as tough as I postulate, he's really hurting, but okay so far.

However, he dropped his sword.

That means he's at negative hit points. Either he's not as tough as I think, he took some damage from the dragon (very likely) or Xykon hit him more than it looked.

No x-d eyes means he is not at -10 yet. The bad news is, negative hitpoints means he can't activate the booty talisman. :(

Whimper! What a cliffhanger! Man, the next few strips might be AWESOME, a slow-motion montage of the battle as Roy drops.


WHY ISN'T IT MONDAY!

[erewhon]

I saw Roy left some crackage on :xykon: 's skull.
Does that heal?

Yes, liches heal, but it'd be awesome if it got left in as a special effect. :)

[Beardtrix]

Just to reiterate:

Rich Burlew.
Draws.
Like.
Sex.

Edit: Oops, double post.

Worth saying twice methinks. The whole war plotline has been awesomeness on stilts.

[Xi-1]

So while Roy has looked wounded for much of the battle, Xykon got two cuts on his robe and a cracked skull. What's he on, besides necromancy-without-a-Fenix-Down?

Speaking of down, if Roy isn't the second person to take out a hobgoblin after a fall, he should at least take out the Huecuva or the Eye of Fear and Fire. Better still, lets call in cartoon physics one more time and have him fall on MitD's umbrella, bouncing him safely to land on the ground. Even funnier if he BREAKS said umbrella and Redcloak has to drop an Orb of Darkness on MitD to prevent him from being revealed.

Did you get all that?

Of course, this assumes the zombie dragon, now a non-factor apart from the falling pieces that MIGHT take out more hobgoblins on impact, has flown back over the part of Azure City where the battle is occurring. I wouldn't really count on our air pirate friend sticking around for any of the battle, or coming back to look -- he's more sane than curious, and that's kept him alive.

Since Roy mentioned Celia, it'd be awesome if he COULD activated the amulet and get her to pick him up, but I honestly don't know the chances of that. Then again, when the dice gives you a roll this bad, you have to kind of cross your fingers and hope for an Act of DM. One of my characters was saved from an instakill that way, since we had just started, so there was no way we could get our hands on enough diamond for a Phoenix Down.

On the other hand, Roy's summary of how the members of the OOTS and various acquantences would survive under Xykon rocked in all kinds of ways.

[nveinus]

:Anyone else think of Batman from Justice League in the episode with the self replicating robots from the meteor and he has to eject?

:roy: :"This is Roy to all points, I could use some air support since I cant fly. At all."

[Gallanoth]

I bet roy lands on the eye of fear and flame. It won't make a good cushion though =p

[Black_Light83]

Awsome yay awsome yay super uber awsome yay i love you:smallbiggrin:

[Charles Phipps]

I think this is actually something else to note.

If Roy had accepted, I'm pretty sure Xyrkon would have said "PSYCH!" And done the exact same thing.

[Shadeogrey]

**FANTASTIC!**
~That's~ the way a super caster should behave.
Go GO XYKON! KILL THEM ALL!!!

But then stories are ALWAYS unfairly biased towards heroes.

A good proof of that is the undeserved "defeat" of the DK.

Another would be.. Why isn't the Huecuva following up with his extremely well-tuned-to-bolster-undead spells?
A well-placed charge through the gap the DK made would spell doom for the defenders.
DOOM, I say!!!

KILL THEM ALL!!!

[fractal]

Not to bring politics into this (as I know that's disapproved of on the boards), but a friend of mine suggested that the dialogue of the third row of panels could be thought of as pertaining to a certain real-world politician.

Food for thought.

[Porthos]

For all of you arguing that Roy must die for literary reasons (or that the only reason he will survive is because he is A Hero), I give you a literary counter-reason why he shouldn't die right now:

It's called Chekov's Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekov%27s_gun). Basically, Chekov's Gun states that if you intend on firing a gun at some point in a play/novel/whatever, then you must introduce it earlier in the play. It also says that you shouldn't introduce elements into a play if you don't intend to use them later.

So what is the proverbial gun? The talisman that summons Celia. Celia has been shown that she can support Roy's weight. And it was stated that the talisman should only be used in an emergency. Well, what could possibly be a bigger emergency than the one Roy is in? He is currently plummeting to his certain death, yet he has something on his body that can save his life. Of course he should use it.

In fact, Celia would be pretty useless to Roy in this (or any other high-level) battle. If she is at all similar to the other sigil guardians, it seems that she would be (somewhat) easily killed. So the only thing she could really do (besides throw the odd lighting bolt) is support Roy in the air. So this situation practically screams for Celia's intervention since it's just about the only way should could possibly help Roy in an emergency. If she wouldn't be used now, I really can't see a situation where she would be used (unless it was for her knowledge of Legal Proceedings. :smallamused:)

Now something could happen that interferes with this plan. Maybe he drops the talisman. Maybe it doesn't work in time. Maybe Celia gets killed while bringing Roy to the ground. Just because Roy tries to use the talisman, doesn't actually mean that the plan will work.

Of course, the talisman could be a McGuffin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuffin), which is the direct repudiation of Chekov's Gun. But I tend to doubt it. :smallwink:

Now nothing says that Roy can't die later from another cause. And we still have the proverbial clock ticking on Belkar and Durkon. So I wouldn't say that the OotS are bulletproof quite yet. :smalltongue:

[Atheist_Cleric]

Great strip, that meteor swarm looks like it hurt. Like, a lot. Probably more damage than Roy's ever taken, in one go. Personally I think the most fitting outcome would be Roy hits the ground hard, and all the OOTS make their way over to him, all reassuring each other that Roy cant be dead, he's too tough etc....then when they get there Durkon casts Heal, but it has no effect...it would be interesting to see how the group all handles what appears to be Roy's death...then at the end of the strip he opens his eyes and says something stupid like "ouch", spits out a tooth and suddenly yells "GAH!" as the entire group hugs him :smalltongue:

[ryos]

"If I don't beat you here and now, then soon this screwed-up nonsensical world won't exist anymore."

LOL.

I love how people talk about a stack of hobgoblin corpses like it's a pillow. Those corpses are wearing armor and are mostly water when you get right down to it. Imagine landing on your back in a body of water from about 200 feet up. Then imagine that the water doesn't give because it's wrapped up in hobgoblin, and you're not much better off than if you had landed on bare rock.

But, then, it is a screwed-up nonsensical world. That's what I love about OOTS--it's not afraid to poke fun at its roots.

[FirstAdam]

I just registered for the forum because I had to say how Awesome that was.

[The Wanderer]

Great comic, great cliffhanger, great dialogue... just awesome all around. And my jaw dropped at the ending.

I also couldn't help thinking that if the OoTS were a campaign being played and the DM was looking for a way to spare Roy by having Xykon use diplomacy, then Roy's player should really think about the moral of one of my personal favorite D&D motivational posters (http://xf8.xanga.com/29ba76234823075400990/m50934383.jpg). :smallbiggrin:

[Chineselegolas]

I hate cliff hangers.
And I love Xykon. Coolest BBEG Ever.

And finally, that smart MBA fighter got what was coming to him. Back to Meat sheild 101 for him. (Or whatever it was called...)

[Dentarg]

Goodness, I think that pretty much made my weekend to think what will happen next, i'm almost certain I won't predict it, but wow, that sure turned the tides a bit.

[Bluefin]

Yikes, that has got to hurt.
And to all those people that said Roy was stupid, that means you would trust Xykon then?

[Baalzebub]

:xykon: Factor three: Meteor Swarm.

lol

[5tephen]

Hope there is a marquis, or a hay-cart or something down there....

[Haruspex]

Xykon had Overland Flight on, yet rode an invisible zombie dragon, and entertained Roy for God knows how long when he could have finished him and everyone on the wall (except maybe Haley) with Meteor Swarm. I wonder what he plans to do with the Snarl. Does he even have a plan?

[8_of_PI]

I can't help but laugh at all the speculation about where and how Roy will land. Why isn't anyone asking, "Where will Roy's SWORD land, and what damage will it do?" Follow that up with "How will Roy get it back?"

[TheBoneSplitter]

The sword'll definitely be lost, unless if I'm mistaken, Roy still has it... then again, it is probably falling in another direction away from him, and will shatter come impact at surface level.

[GolemsVoice]

I am really sorry for Roy. He indeed is the only one who would be able to buy a loaf of bread in a bakery without a) stealing everyhing that is not nailed down or on fire b) delivering a speech that is about an hour long or c) murdering everyone in this shop in cold blood.
But somehow, he always ends up being beaten. Must be a fighter's role in life, I guess.
Anyway, great comic!

[Pvednes]

You know...Xykon really was being very reasonable about all that.

[factotum]

The sword'll definitely be lost, unless if I'm mistaken, Roy still has it... then again, it is probably falling in another direction away from him, and will shatter come impact at surface level.

It's a starmetal sword. It already fell from the sky once (albeit in meteor form), so I don't think a paltry few hundred foot drop will damage it. :smallsmile:

[Ronald_saveloy]

Great Strip! But...

DARN YOU FOR THE CLIFFHANGER! :smallfurious: :smallwink:

I can't wait for Tuesday to see next installment.

(Note: The strip usually comes up, when it's in the middle of the night here. So I don't see before next morning.)

[Pheldagriff]

He's either 13th or 14th level. I'm leaning toward 14 myself. If he rolled well and got 6hp's per level, that's a base of 84.
He has said in comic he "has a lot of hitpoints." All the arguing he has a low Con is unsupported by canon. I'm thinking he likely has a 16 Con, plus Improved Toughness. That gets him an additional 56 hitpoints.
It would be trivially easy for him to have a +4 Con item of some sort at his level. That gets him another 28-ish.
So, at a feasible high-end score, he's looking at 168 hitpoints.

Or perhaps he rolled extremely lucky on every new level and has more, or perhaps he rolled unlucky and has far less.

[...]

If Roy got hit by a meteor, it's 8d6, no save. If it missed, it's 6d6, save for half. 8d6 no save is average 28 points each. 6d6 is 21 or 10 each.

Max average for the meteor swarm is 112, if Xykon hit with them all. Ouch. (No massive death save, though.)

Min average for the meteor swarm is a measly 40. Roy's fine.

Median, assming Xykon hit with two, but Roy made his saves, is 76. If Roy is as tough as I postulate, he's really hurting, but okay so far.

omg, even more talk about average throws and stuff.


However, he dropped his sword.

That means he's at negative hit points. Either he's not as tough as I think, he took some damage from the dragon (very likely) or Xykon hit him more than it looked.

There is no other explanation for it. Period.

That's why I prefer "The Dark Eye", it is a rpg enforcing common sense above the rules.

[GolemsVoice]

omg, even more talk about average throws and stuff.

There is no other explanation for it. Period.

That's why I prefer "The Dark Eye", it is a rpg enforcing common sense above the rules.

Or Rich just used dramatic imperative. Maybe Xykon gets a good whacking by some very angry fists? Now THAT would be a triumph!

[Aquarius Viator]

Rocking AWESOME, Pure Xyconic evilness, i have been waiting for this some strips now...

[VariaVespasa]

It would be trivially easy for him to have a +4 Con item of some sort at his level. That gets him another 28-ish.

'Scuse my small derail, but its come up for me just recently- what items do give you a con bonus? I've been looking but cant seem to find any. I know I'm probably just missing something, but...

And I've lost track- was this fridays strip, or a late wednesday strip?

Varia

[Jeriah]

Roy did just dispatch the DK (albeit accidentally). If the OotS DM distributes xp for the basis of determining stats as kills occur rather than at the end of the battle, then it's possible his level and hp jumped up a bit even if he hasn't had the time to pick out any new feats or abilities... not to mention any xp from good RPing he gains for the whole dialogue with Xykon and the playing LG to the bitter end despite an advantage to do otherwise.

Also, based on Roy's positioning on the neck of the zombie dragon, the fact that the ms hits mid-body, and that Xykon is the kind of guy that would rather let the impact from the fall kill you just for dramatic effect, I would be almost willing to bet that the ms didn't hit Roy with more than 1/2 of the meteors.

Being that Roy was clasping his sword directly in front of him with both hands, and the meteors that did hit him slammed directly into the sword and his chest, it's not impossible for him to have dropped the sword without going into the negatives (assuming that Rich actually puts some realism into the comic). Regardless of the circumstances, Roy is definitely in the single digits right now.

[Fineous Orlon]

Whatever Roy's rescue's gonna be, I'm guessing it's gonna be something 3/4 of a page worth of awesomeness.

I'd wish people would not indulge themselves to much in spoilering whatever happens next. I'd love to see Roy being rescued by his booty talisman, but since we know Rich reads all these posts and likes to fool around with our expectations, I'm betting it's gonna be something different.

On a sidenote: for someone with a 'very good' intelligence, Lawfull Good sure comes with a INT penalty for Roy when it comes to 'how to deal with lich sorcerers flying zombiedragons' :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, well, sometimes you gotta go over there and kick evil's bahooty yourself. 'S a problem with being a big heroic fighter. It's fun, though.

[V Junior]

Does anyone remember a certain prophecy?

And didn't Belkar give him that ring of jumping, causing this whole sequence of events?



That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Actually, I think Roy would be like 1hp off -10 (post-landing), and he is next to Belkar. Belkar stabs him and loots him.

[:belkar:] At least my ring isn't broken! [/:belkar:]

Would that set off the MARK? (killing Roy to break the bond, I mean)

[Vale]

'Scuse my small derail, but its come up for me just recently- what items do give you a con bonus? I've been looking but cant seem to find any. I know I'm probably just missing something, but...

And I've lost track- was this fridays strip, or a late wednesday strip?

Varia

This was Friday's strip, and as for items that give con bonuses I know of a few, though some of them seem very very unlikely to be used by Roy.

Each pink ioun stones (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones) would give him 2 con, but that'd raise the question of why the heck we haven't seen them yet(they constantly float around the head whoever owns them). So this one seems ... unlikely to impossible to be giving Roy any bonuses.

An amulet of health (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofHealth) would give him a few more con (2, 4 of 6 points of it), but in OotS we see people's amulets. Everyone thus far who we've seen with an amulet has worn them on the outside of their clothing/armor. In our world it'd be possible that Roy's just been hiding his amulet under his armor, but in OotSland... I doubt this one too.

I guess he could have spent some time reading when before this strip started. If he'd read a Manual of Bodily Health (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#manualofBodilyHealth) he could have gained anywhere from 1 to 5 con. But those don't just fall into your lap after you kill a goblin or two. At least not in any campaigns I've seen and I had a pretty giving DM.

We haven't seen any belts on him since the belt of gender changing. But a Belt of Dwarvenkind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltofDwarvenkind) would give him a whole bunch of bonuses.
+4 competence bonus on Charisma checks when dealing with dwarves
+2 competence bonus on similar checks when dealing with gnomes and halflings
-2 competence penalty on similar checks when dealing with anyone else.
60-foot darkvision
Dwarven stonecunning
+2 enhancement bonus to Constitution
AND a +2 resistance bonus on saves against poison, spells, or spell-like effects.

But even if he has one hidden under his shirt/armor, that still leaves him with only 2 extra con. I don't see any other magic items amongst the srd stuff that gives con bonuses. But I might have missed something, and I've almost certainly missed dozens of something in all the non-srd material.

[Fineous Orlon]

I had a lot to say, but I am not so full of myself that I have to hear myself say it. Milandros did well enough for both of us:


Yes, Roy was probably foolish. If he were sensible he'd break that oath immediately. At his level he can make a much higher income with very little risk raiding selected temples and merchant caravans, and he certainly could make a lot of money for not much risk by talking to the Azure City nobles and murdering Hinjo for them.

He was irrational, too, fighting something so much stronger than him. He could have just backed down and surrendered, like people suggest. After all, that's what happens in most action movies - remember John McClane in Die Hard, when he skipped out of the building to save his own skin? Or Indiana Jones handing the Ark of the Covenant over to the Nazis meekly and heading back to the USA? Or a certain 300 spartans backing away from the pass and starting a hit and run campaign against the enemy's supply train while avoiding casualties? Or Ellen Ripley realising that saving Newt was impossible and pretty much suicidal and heading back to the ship instead?

Arrogance, as well. He should realise that fighter types can't match casters and just surrender. Plus villains are cooler, and he should realise that and show them the proper deference. And who does he think he is, trying to save the world like that - he should just back off and let someone else do it, not start taking responsibility for stuff. That's, like, lawful, and boring, dude. Being responsible and stuff. Yeah.

Right.

Fortunately Roy is a hero. He doesn't rationalise things away with a "oh well, those innocents will probably die anyway". If there were some Elminster-type megamage around to hand responsibility for Xykon over to, perhaps he'd do it, but there isn't. If he doesn't try to stop Xykon, nobody will. He's extremely close in character to Richard Cypher/Rahl from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. Hero's don't always do the "smart" thing and let the bad guy win.

He got into a fight to try to stop a monstrous, evil entity who will butcher thousands and likely scar the world forever - or even destroy it - knowing that he was overmatched and would very likely die, but believing that someone had to try and there was no one else who could.

Sounds like a great definition of a genuine hero to me.

[Fineous Orlon]

I think this is actually something else to note.

If Roy had accepted, I'm pretty sure Xykon would have said "PSYCH!" And done the exact same thing.

'S what I would do as DM, except Roy [if he accepted] would not be slashing me up with a big dang sword while I was trying to do it.

[Fingolfin]

Uh.. a bit sad comic, but very tense, interesting and clever, well done. Can't wait for the continuation of the plot.

[Grimoa]

:xykon: rulz! :smallbiggrin:

[Fineous Orlon]

I love how people talk about a stack of hobgoblin corpses like it's a pillow. Those corpses are wearing armor and are mostly water when you get right down to it. Imagine landing on your back in a body of water from about 200 feet up. Then imagine that the water doesn't give because it's wrapped up in hobgoblin, and you're not much better off than if you had landed on bare rock.



Landing on your back would be very rough, yes.

But, generally, hobgob water bags are much better to land on than bare rock. Each bag bursts, absorbing KE, in sequence, lowering KE of the falling body, decelerating it more slowly than just the ground would, before it stops.

Your deceleration distance hitting a pile is how deep in the pile you go before you stop. The decel distance when just hitting the ground is the inch [or whatever] that you compact the ground.

That's why they have those barrels of water in front of some interstate exit ramp walls [in the US]. The water barrels cushion the last 20 or 30 feet before the real stop [at the wall].

Now, if the hobgobs are in decent armor [they're probably not], that won't help Roy, and the bones inside the hobgobs don't help Roy much either. There are also probably weapons in the pile...

Still, I think it would be better, especially in a comic strip. All in all, I'd rather neither happened to me, though.

[Fineous Orlon]

WHOAMG! Roy cracked Xykon's skull!

Yeah, very cool. Roy was hammering away like he meant it.

I just noticed that I have posted a lot in this thread.

I want to say, that the Giant has turned it up a notch or two these last several weeks, with action, plot, dialogue, humor and character frequently overflowing the page.

Ever since Miko went after Shojo, this place has rocked...

... and it was merely great and entertaining before that.

[B9anders]

As someone who is rooting for team evil, more specifically Xykon, this was one of the best strips I have read.

Not only do we get some great villainous monologue, but he puts some punch to it and blows Roy out of the water. Possibly Xykon's finest hour so far. Great stuff. About time we saw some 9th level spells dished out.

[Tobrian]

Ouch.
Roy just invented Sky-Diving. :smalleek:

Xykon is brutally honest... and will our Hero now descend into the Underworld as per the mythical Hero Journey (http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~sparks/heroj.html)?

(Seriously, I guess now the perennial debates about Caster-versus-Fighter will start up again. *groan* Please notice how Roy does not own boots of flying. Notice also how Xykon said he's approx. 8 levels above Roy. In D&D, anything 8 levels above you will kick your nuts in a one-to-one fight. Even if it's a blind goblin bard.)

Why was I under the impression the whole time previously that Xykon cannot cast 9th level spells? :smallconfused: And now Meteor Swarm. That's what I call overkill.

[Ronald_saveloy]

If Roy is still conscious, this would be the perfect situation for the Talisman Ceelia gave him. He uses the Talisman, Celia rushes to his rescue and catches him before Roy splatters on the ground.

[Eldhrin]

Oh no! Roy!

Very very cool Xykon though. As for the caster beats fighter thing, well, Xykon did point out that there's a HUGE level disparity. If there wasn't, Roy would probably have already whittled down Xykon's meagre hit point total.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Ok, time for another question that will reveal my ignorance of D&D and the fact I'm not totally obsessive over the comic, but when roy first went at xykon he had a spell cast on his sword that would have let his destroy kykon in one attack.

That way before roy's sword was recast with this starmetal stuff that supposedly made it even deadlier against undead.

So, now roy's sword is tougher than before against undead, and he whacks xykon. Why did he only put a crack in his skull? I mean in the earlier encounter he could supposedly destroy x in one whack, and now his swor'd better AND he's leveled up, so why couldn't he kill x when he whacked him?
I doubt x has leveled up any since that encounter, as it gets harded to level up the higher you go, and x spent a long time growing a new skeleton.

[Professor Tanhauser]

What would be cool is for V to vast a dispell majoc on X while he's flying and cause him to fall and shatter.

[Dausuul]

As for the Lawful Good argument, there is a reason that this alignment is lauded as providing more stupid than any other alignment. Sacrificing your life is all well and good if it will actually amount to something. As it is, assuming Xykon flies off to Redcloak now and gets him to cast "Harm", that will return him to full HP and cost basically nothing. I'd think if the main character is going to die he'd want to die more spectacularly, but thats exactly what Xykon was proposing. ... He hasn't really accomplished anything. Xykon is a sorcerer, if he cast greater invisibility once, he can do it again now and sneak past the rest of the OOTS and the castle fairly easily. Ghostform makes it even easier.

Why should Roy have believed Xykon when Xykon claimed to be 7+ levels higher? If I were an arcane caster with a high-level fighter in my face, and I had no way out of the situation, that's exactly the sort of bluff I'd try to pull--"Look, I could incinerate you right now, but I'm going to be a nice guy and give you a chance to walk away." In Xykon's case, of course, it wasn't a bluff at all, but Roy had no way to know that.

And, as others have pointed out, the fact that Xykon was riding the dragon suggested he had no other means of flight/magical transport, which would mean that he was in fact trapped with Roy. Which is a bad, bad place for an arcane caster to be.

When the villain says, "You can't possibly defeat me," smart heroes do not simply reply "Oh, well, I guess I'd better go home then."


When Roy first went at Xykon he had a spell cast on his sword that would have let him destroy Xykon in one attack. ... I doubt X has leveled up any since that encounter, as it gets harded to level up the higher you go, and X spent a long time growing a new skeleton.

Remember when Xykon, Redcloak, and the MitD had to fight their way through Xykon's old tower, battling "every good-aligned creature in the Monster Manual? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0194.html)" The majority of the MM may be devoted to evil creatures and unintelligent monsters, but there are still enough celestials and good dragons to earn quite a chunk of XP.

Anyway, Disrupting Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptingWeapon.htm) allows a saving throw. A Will save, no less, which even with Xykon's low Wisdom would not be hard for him. Durkon probably forgot about that in the first showdown... and remember that we never saw that spell in action--Xykon destroyed the sword before Roy could hit him with it--so we don't know how effective it actually would have been.

Even if Durkon had had a chance to re-cast it this time (the spell only lasts a couple of minutes), it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Why should Roy believe Xykon when Xykon claims to be 7+ levels higher? If I were an arcane caster with a high-level fighter in my face, and I had no way out of the situation, this is exactly the sort of bluff I'd try to pull--"Look, I could incinerate you right now, but I'm going to be a nice guy and give you a chance to walk away." In Xykon's case, of course, it isn't a bluff at all, but Roy had no way to know that.

And, as others have pointed out, the fact that Xykon was riding the dragon suggested he had no other means of flight/magical transport, which would mean that he was in fact trapped with Roy. Which is a bad, bad place for an arcane caster to be.

When the villain says, "You can't possibly defeat me," smart heroes do not simply reply "Oh, well, I guess I'd better go home then."


Well, I think Xykon could have been riding the dragon for the same reason he wanted the crown back.


"Badass" (Xykon standing there.)

"Really Badass." (Xykon on zombie dragon)

[TheBoneSplitter]

It's a starmetal sword. It already fell from the sky once (albeit in meteor form), so I don't think a paltry few hundred foot drop will damage it. :smallsmile:

Ah yes, but an increment of it was forged into the sword (I believe) and I wouldn't think the entire sword would be made out of it according to that particular strip. It's still a thin sword that can be subject to break. At the very least it'll be either lost, or forgotten... and thus we'll have another funny shop comic if Roy just so happens to stumble with the guy who literally has nothing in that store.

[/unstudied insomniac nitpick]

[Vale]

Ok, time for another question that will reveal my ignorance of D&D and the fact I'm not totally obsessive over the comic, but when roy first went at xykon he had a spell cast on his sword that would have let his destroy kykon in one attack.[snip]

Well, this time he was in such a rush to get up on the dragon that Durkon's buffs didn't include casting disruption on his sword.

That said, I don't think it'd work anyway. At least if I'm looking at the right spell in the d20srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptingWeapon.htm). According to that, it works on monsters with equal or fewer HD than your caster level have to take a Will save or be destroyed. Well, Xykon has more HD than Durkon's caster level right? Of course, perhaps it's a different spell or the OotS world has a modified version of that spell. *shrug*

[factotum]

Ok, time for another question that will reveal my ignorance of D&D and the fact I'm not totally obsessive over the comic, but when roy first went at xykon he had a spell cast on his sword that would have let his destroy kykon in one attack.

That way before roy's sword was recast with this starmetal stuff that supposedly made it even deadlier against undead.


Well, several things: firstly, it's doubtful Durkon's spell would have worked anyway, given how much lower level he is than Xykon, but I guess he didn't know that at the time. Secondly, assuming the "Disruption" spell Durkon cast is pretty much the same as "Disrupting Weapon" from the SRD, it only has duration of 1 round per caster level, so it would have lasted a couple of minutes at best. Thirdly, even assuming the spell was somehow permanent, I doubt it would have survived the sword being shattered and remade.

[Dausuul]

Well, I think Xykon could have been riding the dragon for the same reason he wanted the crown back.

"Badass" (Xykon standing there.)

"Really Badass." (Xykon on zombie dragon)

I'm sure you're right, but again--Roy didn't know that. Remember that Roy has not had the benefit of reading all those Xykon-and-Redcloak strips, so he doesn't have our insights into Xykon's personality.

[tanonev]

I'm sure you're right, but again--Roy didn't know that. Remember that Roy has not had the benefit of reading all those Xykon-and-Redcloak strips, so he doesn't have our insights into Xykon's personality.

Isn't it rather difficult to get a zombie dragon in the first place without being a high level caster though? If I saw a lich on a zombie dragon, I'd hazard a guess that the lich made said dragon, which would lead me to guess that the lich was capable of defeating said dragon (even if he didn't actually do so), which would lead me to conclude that his level is not to be trifled with.

[Adeptus]

I wonder if it's time to see Roy's afterlife for a while...

[Miklus]

Xykon is the most badass villian ever!

[JoeKano]

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Not Roy!!!!!!!!!!!

come on Roy, relax yourself just before you hit thatll cushion the blow!

On the whole Heroes thing this is an issue in my gsming grpoup. Im of the opinion that our characters are heroes. That means its time to be heroic. I hate when people cut and run with "ooh we too weak, we shoul just go tell the king who will deal with it etc" Dude. The king already sent someone to deal with it.........us.

Roy being a heroic fighter honestly cant do else but stand against the darkness, even if Xykon is right and he should nip off have a few story arcs gain some more levels then come back and kick assets. Its just not what a hero does, a hero fights the darkness now, not later.

[Warbanner]

Entertaining himself. That's Xykon's #1 goal at all times: to keep himself amused. Flying around, bantering back and forth with Roy, was amusing. As long as Roy played the hero-monologue/villain-monologue game, there was no reason to kill him. He didn't get serious about trying to kill Roy until Roy stopped talking or letting him talk.

Remember, it wasn't Xykon's plan, it was Redcloak's. Xykon just wanted to walk up to the Gate and kill everyone, so if he stumbled on a momentary diversion in the form of a would-be hero, why not toy with him for a while? If you're Xykon, the battle is a foregone conclusion in your mind, so why not amuse yourself?

Basically, in order to understand anything Xykon does, you need to forget traditional villain motives and focus on what would amuse him the most in the next ten minutes. Because yes, he really is THAT confident in his unstoppability (and for good reason, since he's the only epic-level character in the entire battle).

An excellent response, for which I thank you kindly.

And now, for those of you rooting for Roy to die, even if it means possible later ressurection, I should mention this complication: Aren't the bad guys planning to re-animate all the corpses on the field once there's a sufficient number? Since it's pretty darn unlikely that Roy could get raised by the good guys during the battle, he's either gotta survive here or become ... a zombie! Now that just ain't gonna happen, unless there's something in the D&D world that lets you make the undead un-dead.

[Delgarde]

So while Roy has looked wounded for much of the battle, Xykon got two cuts on his robe and a cracked skull. What's he on, besides necromancy-without-a-Fenix-Down?

He's a walking skeleton. What did you expect - blood everywhere?

[Delgarde]

Hope there is a marquis, or a hay-cart or something down there....


Giant vat of soup? :)

[Aegeus]

Hmm... Considering that there's a good-sized amount of dragon bits falling to the ground as well, when they hit the ground they could produce the effect of a...

MEATIER SWARM

*ba-dum tshh*

[Jabberwocky]

Moral of the story: Listen carefully to your villain :-)
(And yes, it WAS satisfying!)

[sun_tzu]

I'm kinda disturbed that people thought someone who was basically going to fight against all odds to try and protect the lives of all he thought dear- is an idiot that deserved what he got.

Look, Xykon is funny, but he's not right, by any means. He's the bad-guy.

Roy did something very heroic. And if you're chastising him...well, I don't know what more you want from someone.


Yes, Roy was probably foolish. If he were sensible he'd break that oath immediately. At his level he can make a much higher income with very little risk raiding selected temples and merchant caravans, and he certainly could make a lot of money for not much risk by talking to the Azure City nobles and murdering Hinjo for them.

He was irrational, too, fighting something so much stronger than him. He could have just backed down and surrendered, like people suggest. After all, that's what happens in most action movies - remember John McClane in Die Hard, when he skipped out of the building to save his own skin? Or Indiana Jones handing the Ark of the Covenant over to the Nazis meekly and heading back to the USA? Or a certain 300 spartans backing away from the pass and starting a hit and run campaign against the enemy's supply train while avoiding casualties? Or Ellen Ripley realising that saving Newt was impossible and pretty much suicidal and heading back to the ship instead?

Arrogance, as well. He should realise that fighter types can't match casters and just surrender. Plus villains are cooler, and he should realise that and show them the proper deference. And who does he think he is, trying to save the world like that - he should just back off and let someone else do it, not start taking responsibility for stuff. That's, like, lawful, and boring, dude. Being responsible and stuff. Yeah.

Right.

Fortunately Roy is a hero. He doesn't rationalise things away with a "oh well, those innocents will probably die anyway". If there were some Elminster-type megamage around to hand responsibility for Xykon over to, perhaps he'd do it, but there isn't. If he doesn't try to stop Xykon, nobody will. He's extremely close in character to Richard Cypher/Rahl from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. Hero's don't always do the "smart" thing and let the bad guy win.

He got into a fight to try to stop a monstrous, evil entity who will butcher thousands and likely scar the world forever - or even destroy it - knowing that he was overmatched and would very likely die, but believing that someone had to try and there was no one else who could.

Sounds like a great definition of a genuine hero to me.

Well said, both of you.

Xykon's a great villain. Roy's an even greater hero.

[RMS Oceanic]

I think Roy himself summed up my feelings about the last two panels:

"Oh. Oh crap."

Well played, Mr. Burlew!

I reckon Roy lost his sword because it was blasted away from him by the force of a meteor (or the resulting fireball). His eyes are still half open, so he's either about to fall unconscious or (I hope) exactly on 0 hp, leaving him free to summon Celia.

I'm of the opinon Xykon aimed his meteors at the Dragon (for the second time, no doubt), because it's highly likely Roy would be dead if he was hit by them. It would be more amusing for Xykon to give Roy time to contemplate his life before he whams into the ground at terminal velocity. It's a miracle he's still alive as it is. Please don't die! I think this link is far too tenuous for it to count as Belkar causing his death!

And for everyone saying he should have listened to Xykon, maybe, but he should have talked to Miko as well. Roy takes the more proactive approach to problems when he's pissed.

[Archibardo lv11]

Exelent one, but imegine this....

Spoil by Yokiok

Roy cae en la prisión donde se encuentra miko, agonizando dice que tiene que recuperar para detener a Xykon, y se desvanece...... Miko llora y lo da por muerto, ve todos sus errores, y maldice su destino... toma la espada de Roy y mata a cuanto enemigo se encuentra en el camino de ella y Xykon..... luego podría recuperar sus poderes y morir matando a Xikon, que según veo seria el mejor fin para ella.

[Tiako]

It's official. I want Xykon to win. Not due to any failings on Roy's part, after all, jackass as he may be he is certainly the moral party, but simply due to Xykon being awesome.

[theotherone]

unless I am very much mistaken, that was the smallest meteor swarm I have ever seen, which leads me to believe that Xykon didn't actually cast meteor swarm. I think he might have been casting something lower-level, such as fireball. which leads me to a question:
is Xykon really trying to kill Roy?

[Annon]

Didn't they cast Greater Dispel Magic on Xykon in strip 429 take care of Overland Flight? Or are we using W. E. Coyote's law of cartoon inertia?

That had to be an area Dispel, because 1) it affected both the dragon and Xykon (which would have needed separate invisibility spells) and 2) Durkon couldn't see Xykon to target him with a targeted Greater Dispel Magic. When you dispel spells in an area, you can only dispel a single spell at a time for each person/object/undead minion.

Personally, I think it would be very interesting to see how the rest of the party would cope with Roy's death in the heat of battle. Maybe Elan could pull through at just the right dramatic moment and lead them all to victory? :smallsmile: