Limited Book Factotum

[crunchykoolaid]

Hey all. I'm about to start a game with a few prerequisites, and was wondering what would be the best way to keep my class viable.

I will be playing a Factotum.

Now before you all just scream "Font of Inspiration and Iaijutsu Focus with Gnomish Quickrazors", I need to tell you the limitations on this campaign. I will list them here for easy reading:
-Start at level 5
-28 point buy stats or roll, player's choice
-Be intelligent (or crafty, no real rules implications for me)
-Be evil
-Use only ONE WotC book outside of PHB DMG and MM, online supplements FOR THAT BOOK ONLY approved on case by case basis

As you can see, the last one is a doozy. I've convinced him Font of Inspiration is a supplement for Dungeonscape (my chosen book, obviously) and am close to convincing him to allow it.

So what's your Medium/High-Optimization recommendation, playground? Should I spam FoI (if allowed), or focus on other aspects of the factotum like spells, stealth, or even brute combat force with cunning action?

[Grod_The_Giant]

-Use only ONE WotC book outside of PHB DMG and MM, online supplements FOR THAT BOOK ONLY approved on case by case basis
Ouch. That eliminates a lot of your best options (even lower-op stuff like a three-level dip in Swashbuckler for Int to damage or taking Craven). Uh... grab a spiked chain, Improved Trip, and combat reflexes and take advantage of that lovely Str+Int to combat maneuvers? Otherwise, you're probably going to have to use your spells a lot to be combat relevant, so you'll want longer-effect things like Alter Self

[crunchykoolaid]

Yeah I'm thinking about mainly focusing on magic, but thanks for that Tripper build! What stats for 28 buy do you recommend for the tripper extraordinaire?

[nyjastul69]

Due note note that a factotum cannot cast spells. The Arcane Dilletante class feature is a SP ability.

[AmberVael]

If you can't go down the iajutsu route, perhaps you should consider working with ranged weaponry? Manyshot + Cunning Surge is a pretty fun combo.

[Marlowe]

Yeah I'm thinking about mainly focusing on magic, but thanks for that Tripper build! What stats for 28 buy do you recommend for the tripper extraordinaire?

Well, to get Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, and a Spiked Chain (because Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise) you'd need four feats, which you don't actually get at level 5 without using flaws, which you don't have because they're in Unearthed Arcana which is a separate book. But you could just take Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and a Guisarme.

As for stats, don't go lower than 14 for strength or 16 for intelligence. Might have to dump Wis and Chr completely. Up to you if you want to dump DEX to improve INT or STR.

EDIT: If you're taking ImpTrip anyway(probably should, just to get the +4 to trip and the free attack after tripping) use a Glaive instead. Slightly better damage and you can spare the argument as to how "Guisarme" is pronounced. Never mind. This is wrong. I only wanted it to be true because "Glaive" is intrinsically a cooler word than "Guisarme".

[crunchykoolaid]

So we played our first game tonight, and I rolled for stats anyways and got 10 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 18 Int (woot), 6 Wis, and 10 Cha (9+1 for lvl 4 stat increase). I chose Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip, and EWP Spiked Chain. (I'm a human so I get 3 feats) We got to level 6 by the end and I picked up Weapon Finesse, and somehow, by a miracle, convinced the DM that tripping should go off Dex. With my 9k gp I got a +1 Spiked Chain, +1 Mithral Shirt, and a Headband of Intellect, saving the rest for Gloves of Dexterity later.

So to summarize, I can now make a trip attempt with +7 to hit their touch AC (+4 BAB, +1 Weapon, +2 Dex) and have a +11 on my roll to trip (+5 Int, +2 Dex, +4 Imp. Trip). If I succeed, I then get a free attack at +11 (+7 see above, +4 prone) to hit their flat-footed AC. Oh, and I can add +5 to any of these attack or damage rolls if needed 4 times per encounter. If they survive? I get another attack when they stand up and provoke AoOs, which I can use to trip!

Thanks for suggesting this tripper to me guys! Its been super fun to play. I'll probably pick up Combat Reflexes at 9, then FoI until the game ends.

Any thoughts on how I spent money? Suggestions for alternate feats or combat strategies? Indiscriminate rage for my DM not allowing more than one non-core book?

Edit: Also, how should I use my 2 spells for the day? Self-buffs? Utility? Battlefield Control? We have a duskblade, a warmage, and a druid already so combat spells are already over-represented. Also, we'e about to go on a ship for the next month or two, which will take up the next one or two sessions as we sail to a human city where our mission is to slaughter everyone and frame the elves with their weapons we just stole from, well, slaughtering their military outpost. Evil campaigns, so much murderhobo!

[Hellborn_Blight]

EDIT: If you're taking ImpTrip anyway(probably should, just to get the +4 to trip and the free attack after tripping) use a Glaive instead. Slightly better damage and you can spare the argument as to how "Guisarme" is pronounced.

Except a glaive isn't a trip weapon. That is why the guisarme does less damage. Also, Guisarme (https://www.howtopronounce.com/guisarme/). I thought it was too until another player pointed it out recently as the reason he is using a "Geese Arm."

You got lucky with being able to dex trip, OP. That said this

I get another attack when they stand up and provoke AoOs, which I can use to trip!
is not how that works. You can't trip on this attack of op because when they provoke, they are already prone. Since AoOs occur before the actions that provoke them, you can't trip a guy that is already on the ground. This is actually good for you however, because the DM was most likely gonna anti-tactic you seeing as how you were effectively playing a broken tactic.

[Marlowe]

Except a glaive isn't a trip weapon. That is why the guisarme does less damage. Also, Guisarme (https://www.howtopronounce.com/guisarme/). I thought it was too until another player pointed it out recently as the reason he is using a "Geese Arm."


You're right. For some reason I always thought you could use a Guisarme to trip WITHOUT the feat and the feat let you trip with anything.

Oh well, he's got his Spiked Chain (I hate spiked chains....just silly...but if they work they work). And it sounds more useful than my Combat Reflexes/Hold the Line build. Which probably would have worked great if the DM hadn't equipped every single opponent with missile weapons..

[Tvtyrant]

I just realized that your one book is Dungeonscape. Ouch. That cuts out Ur-Priest, Chameleon and Warblade.

Looking at it, the PHB really doesn't offer you much. Either go full Factotum or go Factotum 8/Wizard 12 with tons of Font of Inspiration to basically spam time stop.

[Hellborn_Blight]

You're right. For some reason I always thought you could use a Guisarme to trip WITHOUT the feat and the feat let you trip with anything.

Yeah I didn't know for forever that you didn't have to have the Improved Trip to trip without provoking an AoO if you are using a trip weapon. Kinda funny that we got opposite sides of it wrong lol. Missed the "Unarmed" part of it for years. Feat is still worth taking for any tripper so it isn't a big deal. More of a "the more you know" sort of situation in how it worked out. Guess it would have been nice to know for low level NPCs I had made.

Since you are going a dex build, crunchykoolaid, then I would suggest getting a nice bow. Especially since them not getting close to you can ruin your primary tactic. If you are in a game that will require you to switch tactics often, then you will get a lot of millage out of heroics. You will probably get a lot of millage out of it even if you can spam trip, as it is just good to begin with, but flexibility is your calling card and if you need a fighter feat you qualify for, there you go. Mirror Image is a good counter point to Heroics, and these are the prime levels when that spell is fun to use. But you need a level 1 spell too, so Benign Transposition is an amazing tactical spell that is highly under utilized. The strategic advantage you can generate with that spell is massive. I'd suggest to your party that they pick up eternal wands of it, the Duskblade and Warmage specifically since they don't need to make UMD checks to use it, to maximize the amount to combat trickery that can be pulled.

Something else interesting is that you have to use components when you use your "spells" which means all the various power components are on the table as well. And since it mentions that you can use meta-magic feats, you should have a good shot at being able to use meta-magic rods, subject to DM final call however.

Edit: I just realized the book limiting thing might (read: will) bone you on spells. Been playing with the spell compendium so long that I forgot about that. So...Mirror Image:smallredface:.

[crunchykoolaid]

You got lucky with being able to dex trip, OP. That said this

is not how that works. You can't trip on this attack of op because when they provoke, they are already prone. Since AoOs occur before the actions that provoke them, you can't trip a guy that is already on the ground. This is actually good for you however, because the DM was most likely gonna anti-tactic you seeing as how you were effectively playing a broken tactic.

Thanks for the clarification! I see now I can't effectively infinitely trip them, but still, free attacks are nice.

Also, it took about 10 minutes to convince the warmage and duskblade to chip in for wands of CLW for the druid, as they are convinced wands do not work as written and require UMD no matter what class you are, regardless that the DM has said on multiple occasions they are wrong. So convincing them to get wands for themselves will be probably futile :smallfurious:

[Hellborn_Blight]

Thanks for the clarification! I see now I can't effectively infinitely trip them, but still, free attacks are nice.

Also, it took about 10 minutes to convince the warmage and duskblade to chip in for wands of CLW for the druid, as they are convinced wands do not work as written and require UMD no matter what class you are, regardless that the DM has said on multiple occasions they are wrong. So convincing them to get wands for themselves will be probably futile :smallfurious:

Tripping has always been one of my favorite special attacks, mostly because it is fairly straight forward and works a lot of the time. You may consider enlarge person as your level one spell as well, since you can only trip someone up to one size category larger than yourself, and it gives a +5 to the check (4 from size increase and an extra 1 from the size bonus to strength). It's also in the PHB so I know it's available. As for eternal wands, they are Magic Item Compendium, so they were probably off the table anyway (I now realize that I'm spoiled by the compendiums in general), but they specifically say in their description that you just have to be an arcane caster for them to work, which is awesome. You would have to make a UMD check however, as you technically don't cast spells, arcane or otherwise, but that is probably not a problem.

And Factotums are awesome. After our first wipe in the Tomb of Horrors where I was playing a Half-Dwarf, Half-Minotaur Tripper (we nerfed the eff outta the template though, so not as broken as it sounds. Effectively powerful build and much smaller bonuses as LA +1), I played a Elven Factotum and it was one of the funnest and most amazingly powerful characters I have ever played. Let me just say that the Energy Bow from the Animated Series Handbook, Mitli-shot, and Cunning Surge make for stupid levels of damage. So just go easy on the DM and don't over spam Cunning Surge, except in dire situations.