Would Roy Survive a Meteor Swarm and a fall?

[cupkeyk]

Xykon will have dealt an average of 128 damage on Roy on this strip alone. Plus falling damage. Plus the previous hits Roy has taken. Roy has about 182 hit points assuming he has max hitpoints per level and 16 constitution.

Not that death is a permanent thing in DnD, but I think Roy is dead...

[Assassinfox]

Xykon will have dealt an average of 128 damage on Roy on this strip alone. Plus falling damage. Plus the previous hits Roy has taken. Roy has about 182 hit points assuming he has max hitpoints per level and 16 constitution.

Not that death is a permanent thing in DnD, but I think Roy is dead...

WOOOOOOO! Now Julia can become the new party leader to avenge his death and continue the blood oath!

[Dabble]

Well, you could say that, however... if they were above V during the last strip, you figure they are still in the general vicinity or worst case scenario they are above another part of the party.

So, there will be some way in which Roy will be saved, I don't see him dying just yet, possibly by V's Feather Fall or some other spell.

[daggaz]

Nahh.... he will land in a big soft pile of hobgoblin corpses.

[user_unknown]

But he doesn't need to survive the fall. Remember that Celia can fly :smallwink:

[RyanJ]

Does he still have the Talisman of Booty Call? :P
If so, he could call her to his rescue. Or, they were still above V and s/he could see him coming and cast Feather Fall. Or, he could only fall a few feet and land on Belkar's giant pile of hobgoblin bodies.

Roy won't die.

[Sean92k]

How 'bout this for a wacky idea?
What if roy fell on belkar as he was holding up a dagger. Belkar stabs roy, roy crushes belkar and kills him (Im sure the damage count for a falling roy is quite a bit and belkar must have taken some damage from the hobs he killed) or if he doesn't kill belkar im sure roy landing on his dagger would cause lethal damage activating the MOJ? However that isn't as much a serious suggestion as it is a "what if the giant went crazy?" sorta thing

[Demented]

or if he doesn't kill belkar im sure roy landing on his dagger would cause lethal damage activating the MOJ?

....Ahem...

[Tashi]

Assuming Roy had full HP when he jumped on the dragon he has now (at least) taken the following damage:

3d6 + Xykons level for Finger of death with a successful save
4 * (6+2)d6 damage from the meteor swarm

Assuming Xykon is level 20 that is 35d6 + 20 damage.
Or in Average 142,5.

So according to rules Roy already is dead, no need for any falling damage at all.

That said, no, Roy is not going to die in the comic. :smallwink:

[Demented]

He doesn't have Xs for eyes. Ergo, he's not dead. Yet.

That's average damage, anyhow.

[Sean92k]

or if he doesn't kill belkar im sure roy landing on his dagger would cause lethal damage activating the MOJ
....Ahem...

What? :smalleek:

[jindra34]

What? :smalleek:

Belkar's out of the city thus the mark would not activate...

[Sean92k]

Belkar's out of the city thus the mark would not activate...

Gotcha:smallamused: my bad:smallfrown:
Thats a noob mistake

[moryath]

Xykon will have dealt an average of 128 damage on Roy on this strip alone. Plus falling damage. Plus the previous hits Roy has taken. Roy has about 182 hit points assuming he has max hitpoints per level and 16 constitution.

Not that death is a permanent thing in DnD, but I think Roy is dead...

128, you say? Someone's math is off.

A single d6 does, on average, 3.5 damage. Minimum 1, maximum 6.

A meteor swarm does a possible 8d6 bludgeoning (if all four spheres hit) plus 24d6 fire (from the explosions).

Minimum damage: 32d6 * 1 = 32.
Average damage: 32d6 * 3.5 = 112
Max damage: 32d6 * 6 = 192

Roy's possible hitpoints: 1d10 each level. Presume a 16 con score as you did, allow for the usual "full HP at first level" setup, and have Roy at 12th level, and you get 13 HP (1st level) plus an average 8.5 HP each additional, round up for niceness, and we're at a nice 107 HP. Add in Improved Toughness (a feat no fighter, especially a Combat Expertise fighter, should be without) and we're up to 119 presuming Roy is 12th level. If he's been wearing an object with a Con modifier that we weren't informed about, or has a higher Con score, adjust accordingly.

Meteor Swarm is a 9th level spell, which as a Sorceror, Xykon gets at 18th level. Given that Xykon could be 20th level or even Epic, the question of him being 7, 8, or more levels above Roy is pretty accurate.

Roy's in dire straits as it stands. And that's not counting the 20d6 falling damage (or worse, if the Giant's world doesn't max at the arbitrary 20d6 limit).

[pendell]

Gentles,

I will bet a small amount of monopoly money that this will result in Roy's death. Meteor Swarm damage plus falling damage.

Remember the prophecy: Belkar gets to cause the death of one of the following: Roy, V, Miko, or Miko's horse.

He gave Roy the ring of jumping that allowed him to get into a fight with Xykon -- a villain against whom he was clearly overmatched.

I believe that portion of the prophecy has just been fulfilled.



The funny thing is ... ya gotta hand it to Xykon, he gave Roy several chances to just walk away. Almost an act of ... compassion?

Dadgumit, it's getting hard to hate him.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Randalther]

If Roy IS dead does would that fulfil Belkars prophecy? Cause he gave Roy the ring of jumping that got Roy onto the dragon for Xykon to kill him so technically Belkar cause Roys death.

Although that would be pretty lame...

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

I will bet a small amount of monopoly money that this will result in Roy's death. Meteor Swarm damage plus falling damage.

Remember the prophecy: Belkar gets to cause the death of one of the following: Roy, V, Miko, or Miko's horse.

He gave Roy the ring of jumping that allowed him to get into a fight with Xykon -- a villain against whom he was clearly overmatched.

I believe that portion of the prophecy has just been fulfilled.

While that would be amusing in a sadistic sort of way, it would just feel... unsatisfying to have Belkar's prophecy fulfilled on a technicality like that when everything else is so dramatic at the moment. Besides, to me at any rate, this doesn't feel like the end of the story. Definitely over half way in, but not the end either. A Helm's Deep rather than a Black Gate of Mordor, if you will. While Roy dying in the final ultimate battle against Xykon wouldn't surprise me (nor would him surviving to the very end, but still), I just can't see it happening right now.

[pendell]

Even if Roy dies, that's not the end of the story, is it? This is a world where Resurrection and True Resurrection both exist.

C'mon, tell me the Giant didn't put that gun on the table TWICE (once for Lord Shojo, once in conversation as to why they didn't simply kill Nale and the Linear Guild) if it wasn't foreshadowing someone getting killed and resurrected?



I smell a quest for XX,XXX GP worth of diamonds for a resurrection for SOMEBODY, but who, I don't know.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Setra]

Did those Clerics every ressurect someone?

You know, the ones who were gonna try to ressurect Shojo?

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

I can't refute any of those points, however...

By the same logic, Rich didn't toss in the booty talisman for no reason - Roy has to use it sometime. Res/True Res will bring a character back from almost any situation (and feels cheap for plot characters in a dramatic story, but that's another matter entirely), but the main good guy's about to go splat on the ground and has a one-shot item that'll summon his girlfriend who happens to be able to fly. It's the perfect situation to use it. Then again, given that this is a comedy strip and humour can be derived from the characters making hopelessly bad decisions at the worst possible times, that could also be an argument against Roy whipping out the talisman. :smalltongue:

[the_tick_rules]

Roy will be fine, mathematically it's iffy, but after 442 strips we should know OOTS doesn't play by those rules.

[Yakk]

Let's assume :roy: is 13th level :xykon: is 20th.

Give Roy a Con of 20, from either buffs, potions, magic gear, or Tomes. He is 13th level.

Fighter HP: 10 + 5.5*12 = 76
Con HP: 5 * 13 = 65
Total: 141 HP for :roy:, on average.

:roy: has a Ranged Touch AC of around 11. :xykon: will only miss on a 1. This means no save for :roy:.

(Note that :xykon: cannot climb out of the blast radius of the spell in a round, but he could instruct the zombie dragon to dive.)

8d6 damage per sphere, 4 spheres.
3.5*8 = 28 damage per sphere, *4 is 112 damage.

Finger of Death is 30.5 damage, or 142.5 damage on average.

So, if :roy: has average HP, and :xykon: does average damage, :roy: would be at -1 or -2 HP right now.

So, E( :roy: current HP) is -1.5.
V( :roy: current HP) = 12*V(d10) + 35*V(d6) =~ 202
SD( :roy: current HP) =~ 14.2
95% conf. radius( :roy: current HP) =~ 27.8

With 16 con instead of 20 con, that costs him 26 HP: which means that he is still quite reasonably alive after taking those two spells.

[One Skunk Todd]

Doesn't the MoJ activate if Belkar goes further than 1 mile away from Roy? Probably why Roy was so insistent about landing. (I'm sure that was brought up in other threads)

[Demented]

Doesn't the MoJ activate if Belkar goes further than 1 mile away from Roy? Probably why Roy was so insistent about landing. (I'm sure that was brought up in other threads)

I was wondering why Roy was so insistent about landing. Never thought it would be for Belkar's benefit, of all people! 'Course, I never figured the battlefield/city was larger than a quarter-mile in total anyway.

[blackout]

Ok, so...problem fixed, my bad. And, no Roy won't live.

[Oxymoron]

Roy will land on his indestructible ego and thus survive.

[MReav]

Would Roy survive a Meteor Swarm and a Fall? Probably.

Would Roy survive at least 2 Fingers of Death, Meteor Swarm, a Fall, and being pelted by dragon bits?

Probably not.

[Icewalker]

I'd say he is almost certainly dead if he hits the ground. He will either find a way out of it, or die and be resurrected. I'd guess it'll be Celia, V saving him, pile of corpses, or death.

[brian c]

(Note that :xykon: cannot climb out of the blast radius of the spell in a round, but he could instruct the zombie dragon to dive.)

Uh... the way the zombie dragon looks in the comic, I don't think it's being instructed to do anything anymore.

[Corp]

Why is it that everytime a character is in a bad way, or might be in a postion where he might be in trouble, a bunch of people think they're going to die? Do members of the boards want some OotS members to die?

It's just a cliff hanger so sit back, relax, and wait for the character shields to kick in.

[Assassinfox]

Do members of the boards want some OotS members to die?

V and Roy, yes. :smalltongue:

[tobian]

I put this in the other thread, but :durkon: casted Spell Resistance on :roy: right before :roy: made the jump-and Meteor Swarm allows for spell resistance.

So, not in the mood to do the math, but it may be possible he resisted it.

[Job]

I like to read these kinds of speculation threads and imagine all the possibilities expanding simultaneously. However I personally don’t like to speculate, as the Giant has the skill to pull a fast one on us anyhow.

That being said, the recent events seem to have a feeling of being “half-way”, the moment Roy was hit by the meteor swarm (and likely killed) we came to a crossroads and to a very uncertain future. It reminds me of the middle installment in many great movies/novels where the heroes must come to terms with defeat (think return of the Jedi).

[Indon]

My thought is, Roy's probably at zero HP, and summoning Celia, if he does, will knock him out.

That'd be more dramatic.

[Assassinfox]

I put this in the other thread, but :durkon: casted Spell Resistance on :roy: right before :roy: made the jump-and Meteor Swarm allows for spell resistance.

So, not in the mood to do the math, but it may be possible he resisted it.

He looks pretty burnt and beat up. I don't think he resisted.

[Thrawn183]

My thought is, Roy's probably at zero HP, and summoning Celia, if he does, will knock him out.

That'd be more dramatic.

That's exactly what I was thinking oddly enough. In addition, I think that when Celia is summoned she'll save Roy only to be killed herself.

[Erloas]

We aren't even sure that Xykon targetted Roy with the meteor swarm. There is a very good chance that some of the meteors directly hit the dragon, maybe even all of them. That would just leave the AE damage left to hurt Roy. There is also a reflex save for half damage. While it could be ruled that there is no where for him to "reflex save to" there is a possiblity that the dragon is large enough to block (or allow Roy to save) some of the AE damage.

As the calculations show his possible hit points and the possible damage for the spell are pretty close, so with some of the spheres hitting the dragon and maybe a reflex save vs one of the AE damages could give Roy a bit of hit points left to work with.

[Angela Christine]

I agree with Erloas. To me it looked like the meteor swarm hit the zombie dragon, that is what caused it to fall to bits. That speech was all, "I can fly, you can't, and now neither can the dragon".


In a way, Roy is lucky. If Xykon had just flown away, then Roy would have been stuck on a blind flying zombie that he would have no way of controlling. He'd have to wait and hope that the dragon eventually flew close enough to hill or tall building so that Roy could jump down. If the dragon had been aimed out to sea, it could have been weeks before it flew over anything Roy could jump to. He would have missed everything!


This way all he has to do is survive the fall, chug a healing potion, and get back to work.

[Rai Thunder]

:xykon: "Factor two. A zombie dragon that lacks a bite attack isn't especially valuable to me."

Surely this implies that Xykon aimed for the dragon?

I'm a bit worried about the dragon flying so far away that the MOJ on Belkar activates, although Karma seems to be working in his favour at the moment. Considering how protagonists (especially main ones) are rarely killed off, and the numerous possibilities for his survival*, it's very unlikely that the fall will kill him, even if he actually hits the ground.

* Possibilities such as V's Feather Fall, the Booty Talisman and the big pile of hobgoblins.

[eilandesq]

We aren't even sure that Xykon targetted Roy with the meteor swarm. There is a very good chance that some of the meteors directly hit the dragon, maybe even all of them. That would just leave the AE damage left to hurt Roy. There is also a reflex save for half damage. While it could be ruled that there is no where for him to "reflex save to" there is a possiblity that the dragon is large enough to block (or allow Roy to save) some of the AE damage.

As the calculations show his possible hit points and the possible damage for the spell are pretty close, so with some of the spheres hitting the dragon and maybe a reflex save vs one of the AE damages could give Roy a bit of hit points left to work with.

Good point--and that wouldn't necessarily have been a brain cramp on Xykon's part--he might have wanted Roy to be alive for the long trip down, though even 24d6 fire damage with four Reflex saves of DC 24 or so to try to take less would have been a bit rough on Roy even without any direct hits.

[eilandesq]

I agree with Erloas. To me it looked like the meteor swarm hit the zombie dragon, that is what caused it to fall to bits. That speech was all, "I can fly, you can't, and now neither can the dragon".


In a way, Roy is lucky. If Xykon had just flown away, then Roy would have been stuck on a blind flying zombie that he would have no way of controlling. He'd have to wait and hope that the dragon eventually flew close enough to hill or tall building so that Roy could jump down. If the dragon had been aimed out to sea, it could have been weeks before it flew over anything Roy could jump to. He would have missed everything!


This way all he has to do is survive the fall, chug a healing potion, and get back to work.

Except that if Xykon had just flown off Roy could have gritted his teeth and jumped immediately, taking 20d6 from the fall, and probably surviving with a fair amount of HP left, as opposed to taking 24 to 32d6 of fire and bludgeoning damage, followed by 20d6 from the fall. Even pre-fall Miko at the height of her apparent indestructibility in strip #374 would have been staggering after the latter.

[Demented]

In the comic, all the meteors are centered directly on Roy.

[[Insert Neat Username Here]]

I put this in the other thread, but :durkon: casted Spell Resistance on :roy: right before :roy: made the jump-and Meteor Swarm allows for spell resistance.

So, not in the mood to do the math, but it may be possible he resisted it.
Based on the fact that his face is scorched, I doubt it.

[Gandal]

Flumphs For The Win. That is all.

[squidly_bard]

ok ok ok I understand that NORMALLY roy would die but it's is quite obivios that he has a protection I like 2 call "MAIN CHARICTAR IMUNITY"!!!! (lighting sounds)
really have u guys NEVER seen a cartoon a coomic or pretty much anyhting with a plot line?????

[Erk]

Woah, dude, chill. And find a spell check.

I think it would be kinda neat if they pulled a Chrono Trigger and had to find a way to get Roy ressurected, but I suspect this is more likely to get Roy KO'd and out of the fight for a bit, but just down for the count.

[Innis Cabal]

its really not that great a spell,

[Demented]

Not compared to other 9th level spells.
But it looks pretty neat, functions pretty neat, and leaves quite an impression on the mooks.

[Innis Cabal]

that is very true....nothing sats "OBEY" like raining flaming rocks from the sky.

[Kreistor]

Roy's best hope actually comes from Xykon. At least one of those Meteor Swarms should miss. Roy wouldn't have the best Touch AC in the game, but even Xykon would roll poorly 1/4 times. X's got a bad BAB (only +9 at L18), so he isn't going to automatically always hit Roy. Each miss will explode nera Roy anyway, but the misses avoid the bludgeoning damage and confer a Reflex Save to the Fire, which can also reduce the damage Roy takes.

It looks like it has to be the booty talisman to the rescue. Roy not only needs saving, but he needs to follow Xykon (presumably to the tower).

[Innis Cabal]

and Ref is not roy's best save plus being at least a CR 22 the DC for the spell is going to be high...i love devil's advocate

[Fawkes]

One can only hope that Celia saves him.

[Sky_Schemer]

its really not that great a spell,

If multiple balls hit you you're in trouble, but it's really more geared for spreading damage over a wide area.

But, yeah, something like Power Word Kill is much better against a single target since all you have to do is get them down to 100 hp or less. Though I suppose something like Meteor Swarm would be good for doing that. ;)

[Scatman]

The answer is most likely no.Then again, since when did likeliness work in comedy webcomics?He WILL die if he took maximum damage or close with the spells.He WONT DIE if he took minimum or close somehow.THE TRUTH SHALL REMAIN UNKNOWN UNITIL NEXT WEEK!

[Black_Light83]

No, he can not... but he will

[Aquillion]

The funny thing is ... ya gotta hand it to Xykon, he gave Roy several chances to just walk away. Almost an act of ... compassion?

Dadgumit, it's getting hard to hate him.I think the idea is that Xykon is evil, but mostly in a selfish way. He doesn't have anything to gain from fighting Roy right now (He barely remembers who Roy is, so he certainly doesn't consider him a recurring threat--and later, he'll have ultimate power, assuming he even thinks that far ahead, which he often doesn't.) Why waste spells and resources he needs elsewhere at the moment on a fight he might just be able to make go away by talking?

Basically, he's not sparing Roy, he's saying "Buzz off, I'm busy seizing this city." He assumes Roy will look at things in the same evil pragmatic way he does.

He could easily have followed Roy and finished him off, probably with something as simple as a magic missile or two. He's flying away instead, so we can see he doesn't bother... not worth his effort.

(Alternative explaination: This is the DM saying "Come on, man, don't screw up the campaign and get killed now.")

[Kreistor]

He could easily have followed Roy and finished him off, probably with something as simple as a magic missile or two.

Uhm... Magic Missile? No, it would take a lot more than that.

Roy is going to have on the order of 120HP as a L13 Fighter (I don't think he's got a 16 Con, but no one really knows at the time of this writing). MM does at best 25 points of damage, and on average only 17.5. It would take half a minute to take Roy out with MM.

Even Fireball is only going to do 35 damage on average with a failed save.

To one-shot Roy, Xykon needs to use an instant killer (like Disintegrate) or something that does more than 1D6/level, like Meteor Swarm. Which are, oddly enough, the two spells X tries on him.

[Lizard Lord]

Would Roy Survive a Meteor Swarm and a fall?

Yes, but only if he doesn't actually hit the ground. :smalltongue:

I am sure most of us know how Roy will avoid hitting the ground.

[Demented]

After meteor swarm and a 200 ft. fall (more or less), 17.5 points of damage might be more than enough to push Roy into the category of dying, or dead.

[holywhippet]

Gentles,

I will bet a small amount of monopoly money that this will result in Roy's death. Meteor Swarm damage plus falling damage.

Remember the prophecy: Belkar gets to cause the death of one of the following: Roy, V, Miko, or Miko's horse.

He gave Roy the ring of jumping that allowed him to get into a fight with Xykon -- a villain against whom he was clearly overmatched.

I believe that portion of the prophecy has just been fulfilled.



The funny thing is ... ya gotta hand it to Xykon, he gave Roy several chances to just walk away. Almost an act of ... compassion?

Dadgumit, it's getting hard to hate him.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You forgot, the oracle is also on that list as Belkar doesn't like Kobolds.

I'm guessing that Xykon is somewhat chaotic/eccentric. Being undead he probably can't feel fear but his manner suggests that he is happy to take on all challengers. I suspect he doesn't understand emotions like rage and revenge or duty. In his mind it's all about power and Roy doesn't measure up to him so he's willing to let him go and build up his strength which in his mind is the logical thing to do. Technically he may be right, he just can't understand that Roy's conscience won't let him do that.

[GnomishSubmarine]

Why not just have V cast feather fall? I mean wasting a talisman of booty call here seems rather anticlimactic.

[factotum]

Why not just have V cast feather fall? I mean wasting a talisman of booty call here seems rather anticlimactic.

Maximum range of Feather Fall is 25ft + 5ft for every 2 caster levels--85 feet, if V is level 13. We know the dragon was right overhead V a little while ago, but we don't know how long it had to fly away before getting toasted, and of course Roy is also a long way up in the air as well, so V would be struggling to get the spell onto Roy before he hits the ground--assuming the Power of Plot doesn't get involved.

Anyway, as somebody else pointed out, what else would the talisman of booty call be good for? We know Celia can fly and that she can carry Roy, but we know she isn't a particularly strong combatant--unless Roy is going to be making a habit of falling from high places I think this is a perfect time for him to use the talisman.

[Grasilich]

It's pretty clear from the comic that all of the spheres are hitting Roy. Look at the comic and zoom in close to that frame. Look where Roy's foot is. That is 3 Meteors to the upper torso and one to the chin, people. There's no getting around that.

Again: If Roy survives this, then we can pretty much assume that no OotS member is EVER going to die until Durkon's prophecy comes true, cause no matter what happens a convenient deus ex machina will just pull them out of the fire. Death Knight about to kill V? Convenient falling dragon head! Roy incinerated in mid air? His girlfriend flies him away!

If he dies he can just be resurrected, so it's not like him dying will mean no more Roy. What it would do, however, is make this comic a lot more dramatic.

[Castamir]

And that's not counting the 20d6 falling damage (or worse, if the Giant's world doesn't max at the arbitrary 20d6 limit).
That limit is not so arbitrary. Did you ever hear about terminal velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity)?

After the falling speed maxes out, it doesn't matter from how high do you fall.

[Baru]

Roy sucked a good 24d6 damage. He was wounded before this attack hit. This looks like the end of our protagonist.

[Olibarro]

Roy currently has spell resistance of 24 or 25. Spell resistance is effective on Meteor Swarm. If Xykon is level 20, that's about a 1 in 4 chance of Spell resistance working. IF spell resistance applies separately to the four meteors (since they seem to be in all other respects operating as four simultaneous but separate attacks), then only 3 of them will likely have any actual effect.

Spell Resistance did not work on the Finger of Death, because Roy went from not-beat-up to beat-up in appearance when the spell hit him.

Call it 30 pts damage for the Finger of Death.
28 pts damage for each Meteor. Call it 84 total for 3 meteors.

Roy's taken roughly 110+ pts of damage.

At 12th level (I'm going with the 16 Con), Roy should really have 100+ hp.

Those two numbers are ballpark of each other, which tells me that Roy is in dire straits. He ain't dead yet (no X-ey eyes), but he will be if he hits the ground.

The exact numbers don't matter, because it's a comic. But the fact that the numbers are in the right general vicinity to reflect what we're seeing in the art and story makes all of this plausible within the rules. And I love that about Rich. He's not a stickler for the rules, but everything's reasonbly possible within the framework of the game--in addition to being an excellent story even for someone who doesn't know the rules.

[Talya]

Assuming all 4 meteors hit (Fairly good assumption, with roy's touch ac and xykon's BAB it's likely only a natural 1 misses), roy just took (3d6+20 finger of death) + (8d6 bludgeoning) + (24d6 fire.)

Assuming less than average rolls (let's go 3 per d6), Roy just took 125 damage.

Assuming Roy is a level 14 fighter with a Con of 16, that rolled over-average on his hit dice (let's assume a 6 per d10), roy has 127 hit points, putting him at 2 hp and alive...but the fall's not going to be nice to him.

A few feats could raise that higher.

So yes, while the odds are against him still being alive, it's not out of the realm of statistical likelihood that he's going to still be alive right now. I don't see the fall as being a particularly healthy thing though.

[Setra]

Uhm... Magic Missile? No, it would take a lot more than that.
The keyword from what you're quoting is 'Finish' not 'kill in one shot'

A MM could probably easily Finish him off at this point, but Xykon is lazy, forgetful, and arrogant.

[Erk]

Again: If Roy survives this, then we can pretty much assume that no OotS member is EVER going to die until Durkon's prophecy comes true, cause no matter what happens a convenient deus ex machina will just pull them out of the fire. Death Knight about to kill V? Convenient falling dragon head! Roy incinerated in mid air? His girlfriend flies him away!

Using a magic item the main character was given ages ago, with only one really practical purpose (summoning an ally who can fly), isn't really deus ex machina. If Roy'd been given the Booty Call Amulet at the beginning of this storyline, sure, but given how long ago it was introduced to the plot, using it now would be no more deus ex than using the girdle of gender changing was. At some point you have to draw the line between deus ex machina and the normal introduction of tools the characters will need to solve the puzzles they are going to be presented with. Moreover, not only has the amulet been a "sleeper" plot item for a long time, but to use it Roy has to remember it and activate it himself... definitely not a deus ex.

The dragon head was deus ex machina, of course. And a good funny one :D

[Hel65]

Do members of the boards want some OotS members to die?


Yeah, all of them. Maybe more than once. :smalltongue:

Roy may die here, easy. This way, we get Hinjo to lead the OOTS in the quest to save the world and resurrect Roy after Azure City is destroyed (but with Xykon's plans foiled), while Roy travels through other planes to come back on his own(possibly with the 'help' of his father - would be hilarious). It's not like it's some revolutionary plot device (say hello to Wulfgar and Cpt. Sparrow)

[BisectedBrioche]

I think a few strips of Roy being dead (and stuck with his father) while the OotS try to ressurect him would be awesome.

[Kreistor]

Xykon is lazy, forgetful, and arrogant.

Given X's most recent conversation with Roy, I'm not so sure that's would be his motivation here.

Looking back at X, it looks more like he likes to demonstrate his superiority in combat. If he leaves Roy like this, it may simply because he wants to fight Roy when he's tougher and a more challenging opponent.

[Assassinfox]

Yeah, all of them. Maybe more than once. :smalltongue:

Roy may die here, easy. This way, we get Hinjo to lead the OOTS in the quest to save the world and resurrect Roy after Azure City is destroyed (but with Xykon's plans foiled), while Roy travels through other planes to come back on his own(possibly with the 'help' of his father - would be hilarious). It's not like it's some revolutionary plot device (say hello to Wulfgar and Cpt. Sparrow)

Hinjo has a city to lead, he can't go running off adventuring whenever he wants.

And he's #1 on my "List of Characters Who Should Die". :smalltongue:

[Setra]

Given X's most recent conversation with Roy, I'm not so sure that's would be his motivation here.

Looking back at X, it looks more like he likes to demonstrate his superiority in combat. If he leaves Roy like this, it may simply because he wants to fight Roy when he's tougher and a more challenging opponent.
You have a good point, but that still makes him arrogant.

Unless.. What if he ... hmm this is an interesting theory.. What if Xykon wants to die, but is being controlled by a higher power?

Maybe Redcloak is more than meets the eye... or something else...

[kamoo]

Flumphs For The Win. That is all.

I vote for the Flumphs!

[consul]

Yeah, there are plenty of folks who would save him. One thing though about the artwork of him falling ... is it just me or did Rich make Roy's skin lighter, just so he can make him darker for the fire blast?

[BardicLasher]

I vote for the Flumphs!

Same here. A friend of mine mentioned it to me. It wouldn't be Dues Ex Machina, it'd be a running gag. We've seen throughout the course of this strip that a falling character is equally likely to hit ground, get feather fall, or land on a flumph. We haven't had a flumph in a while.

[Setra]

Same here. A friend of mine mentioned it to me. It wouldn't be Dues Ex Machina, it'd be a running gag. We've seen throughout the course of this strip that a falling character is equally likely to hit ground, get feather fall, or land on a flumph. We haven't had a flumph in a while.
Yeah but the Flumphs generally aren't used in a dramatic moment.

[the_tick_rules]

i think the flmuphs would stay clear of this battle.

[Kaerbek]

Durkon casted Spell resistence on Roy, that's all I'm saying.

[factotum]

I would have to agree with Erk that using the Booty Call Talisman does not count as a deus ex machina, because he was given the darn thing for a reason and it's probable this incident was it. If the talisman had never been mentioned before, then Roy suddenly pulls it out of his pocket and calls Celia, then THAT would be a deus ex machina...

[Wardog]

Yeah but the Flumphs generally aren't used in a dramatic moment.

How about:

Roy uses his Booty Talisman, and is dramatically rescued by Celia.

Then, for the end-of-strip gag, we see the flumphs expressing relief for being spared...

And then getting burried under bits of zombie dragon :smalltongue:

[Merlin the Tuna]

Do members of the boards want some OotS members to die? Yes, very much so. I tire of stories in which an ally can intervene at the deciding moment every time. The result is that cliffhangers aren't actually exciting, giving an impression of "Whoops, Roy's in trouble, I wonder who's going to have just the right tool for the job." This goes double because of the not-entirely-impressive decision making that involved jumping onto the dragon in the first place. Now, Rich has already done a pretty good job of building tension in letting Shojo die and Miko fall; he's made good on a few "threats" so far. In that respect, I'm not basing any huge judgments on whether or not Roy survives, but it's still nice to see people that should be dead, be dead.

In terms of whether or not he's toast, aside from the argument from numbers... Consider what we know. Rich has stated someplace or another that Elan was the first character he came up with for the Order -- if he were to remain second (or third/fourth/whatever) banana for the entirety of the story, I would thus consider it a surprising decision. We've also recently seen from Elan a costume change and a noticeably increase in competence both in and out of battle. We've been set up for a shift in who and what Elan is, and Roy's death provides a meaningful way of consummating that change, as it allows Elan an opportunity (if only a temporary one) to take the helm at leading the Order. Much of Roy & Elan's interaction has been based on Elan's search for acceptance, and successfully spearheading a quest to revive Roy would do much for that undercurrent.

And, arguing completely from style... Roy's sword has slipped from his hands. That's about as common a way of saying "He's spent" as rolling out from underneath a machine is of saying "This character is a mechanic." That his eyes are still more O than X points to being alive, but I certainly think and hope that this ends in a splatter.

[Setra]

How about:

Roy uses his Booty Talisman, and is dramatically rescued by Celia.

Then, for the end-of-strip gag, we see the flumphs expressing relief for being spared...

And then getting burried under bits of zombie dragon :smalltongue:
That I could see.

[cavalier973]

Roy getting feather-falled by V or using the talisman, and Roy's dying and being raised would amount to the same thing plotwise. It's a deus ex whether he is saved or if he dies and is raised. However, if Roy does die, the story might take a twist with Roy learning some information while dead that he would not have been able to learn while alive. He might also decide (ala shinjo) that it's not worth being resurrected. It might be that Durkon has to trade places with Roy. . .

[Assassinfox]

Yes, very much so. I tire of stories in which an ally can intervene at the deciding moment every time. The result is that cliffhangers aren't actually exciting, giving an impression of "Whoops, Roy's in trouble, I wonder who's going to have just the right tool for the job."

Quoted for Truth. :smallsmile:

[SPoD]

I don't think there's any doubt that Roy CAN die, numerically speaking. If Xykon rolled higher than average damage, if Roy has less than average hit points, if Roy took more spells from Xykon "off-camera"...any of these things will lead to Roy being dead if he hits the ground. And no ones' even mentioned the three arrows that he took saving Elan, for which we never actually saw him get healing. I would say that if Roy actually hits, no one is going to be shocked that he ends up dead on the basis of the numbers. It is not only possible, but probable, based on what we know.

As far as the plot possibility, I think Rich warned us in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0417.html) that yes, the main characters ARE at risk here, and he did so without mentioning Roy or Xykon specifically. I take this strip to mean, "Character shields are down, Captain!" for the duration fo the war sequence. Of course, as said, the booty talisman is the perfect way to get out of this...

...Maybe a litlle TOO perfect...

[SPoD]

Roy getting feather-falled by V or using the talisman, and Roy's dying and being raised would amount to the same thing plotwise. It's a deus ex whether he is saved or if he dies and is raised.

Ummmm...what do you think deus ex machina means?

In a world where resurrection has been discussed many times, using that resurrection spell at a later point is NOT deus ex machina, any more than someone using a blaster is deus ex machina in Star Wars. Resurrection magic is a well-established part of the world, and has been attempted recently on Shojo.

A deus ex machina is an unexpected, sudden, and overtly artificial way of getting a character out of a situation; it originally meant having the gods come down and save the character. Anything that saves the character that results solely from his own already-displayed abilities or those of other major characters is NOT deus ex machina! And we KNOW that Durkon can cast Raise Dead.

[Assassinfox]

(Explanation of a Deux Ex Machina)

But V getting saved by a falling dragon head counts, right?

[SPoD]

But V getting saved by a falling dragon head counts, right?

Oh, hell yes. But it was funny, and clearly intended to be an overt deus ex machina for the purpose of humor. The death knight battle was obviously not intended to be the climax of the entire war, merely a side battle.

The humor arose from our expectations that V would get himself out of this mess, because that's what happens in dramatic stories. Except as it turns out, this part of the story wasn't dramatic, so our expectations were wrong. With Roy, I think we're seeing the REAL dramatic story, so I don't expect a DExM. (Though as I said, I don't see Celia or resurrection as being DExMs at all.)

[Merlin the Tuna]

Of course, as said, the booty talisman is the perfect way to get out of this...

...Maybe a litlle TOO perfect...On this note...

Celia has proved capable of carrying Roy in flight. Celia has not yet proved capable of carrying Roy in flight while wearing his armor and gear. That she was able to fly with him in the first place strikes me as a potential bending of the rules, as natural flight requires bearing a light load or less; that'd peg Celia at at least 22-23 strength, which seems... high. Still, even a simple chain shirt is 25 extra pounds; that may be enough to put her over whatever limit she has.

Summoning Celia only to see her unable to stop his fall would be rather dark, but then again, we're seeing a city get potentially decimated. Darkness is somewhat expected in that respect.

[R.O.A.]

Oh come on, Celia has to rescue him - he was thinking about her (he mentions her fouth row, last box, first bubble, last line) so using the talisman should occur to him, assuming he is conscious...

[SupraGuy]

Okay... I'm no gamer, so I don't know the rules around falling damage, but it would seem to me that anything that allows you to jump straight up an improbable height should also take care of the landing.

I won't rule out the talisman, since it does seem to be perfect for the job. Neither would I rule out death, since there are a couple of characters (Shojo and Eugene) who might have some things to say to Roy.

Also, regarding the aformentioned "Feather Fall" -- again, I don't know the rulings on this -- would "Spell Resistance" affect this? IE: does spell resistance resist ALL spells, or just ones that you don't want?

[jindra34]

Also, regarding the aformentioned "Feather Fall" -- again, I don't know the rulings on this -- would "Spell Resistance" affect this? IE: does spell resistance resist ALL spells, or just ones that you don't want?

Nope you can ALWAYS chose not to resist... just as you can chose not to attempt a reflex save...

[Merlin the Tuna]

Falling Damage: Helping you up doesn't help you down. Jump checks get you into the air, and while you can reduce a small amount of damage from falling by making a jump check, you need some pretty ridiculous Tumble checks (Epic checks, actually which Roy does not have) to get rid of any appreciable amount of the damage. Also, he jumped from the city wall, but the odds of landing on the wall itself are pretty small. Xykon appears to have directed the dragon higher in the air, as well.

Feather Fall isn't likely to work, as the range is short and Roy should be well past V by now. And Spell Resistance is always up -- it takes a standard action to lower it to let a helpful spell past it.

[BardicLasher]

Nope you can ALWAYS chose not to resist... just as you can chose not to attempt a reflex save...


Allow me to channel my Incubus PC for a moment...


HA! I wish! Spell resistance requires a STANDARD ACTION to supress. If you're letting allies cast on you, you need to do basically nothing for a round, and you leave yourself wide open for enemy casters.

[Copacetic]

Alright, I'll throw my 2 cents in. Elan saves him somehow and Roy is left with the choice of respecting him, or still ignoring him, earning the wrath of hailey. That'd be funny

[cavalier973]

Ummmm...what do you think deus ex machina means?

In a world where resurrection has been discussed many times, using that resurrection spell at a later point is NOT deus ex machina, any more than someone using a blaster is deus ex machina in Star Wars. Resurrection magic is a well-established part of the world, and has been attempted recently on Shojo.

A deus ex machina is an unexpected, sudden, and overtly artificial way of getting a character out of a situation; it originally meant having the gods come down and save the character. Anything that saves the character that results solely from his own already-displayed abilities or those of other major characters is NOT deus ex machina! And we KNOW that Durkon can cast Raise Dead.

We know that Durkon can call on Thor to raise Roy from the dead....that's the Deus part, at least. . .

I was actually responding to a post that said that the use of Celia's talisman was a form of deus ex machinas. His point was that Roy's death would add some quality dramatic tension to the strip. I think if resurrection is always a valid option, the there's really not a lot more drama. There are, however, interesting ways to move the story forward by having Roy die, and I think that's what several people are trying to get across.

But you're right, in this case, "Deus Ex Machinas" is not the phrase that pays.

[Setra]

Hey if Bleach can have Drama despite the fact No One Dies....

Then the OotS can too.

[Innis Cabal]

lots of people are dying.....just no one really important

[PlasticSoldier]

lots of people are dying.....just no one really important

Wasn't lord shojo important oh xykon died I'm pretty sure death is required to be a lich don't forget Grand larceny guy...

[Nemal]

I just wanted to point out that it's likely that Roy has some sort of fire resistance.

Anyone prepping up to fight casters -not- spending a level 2 spell (at least) to protect against fire/electricity is just asking for it.

That said, I'm not sure if he'll live.
*enjoys the dramatism*

[warmachine]

Events such as the destruction of the Death Knight, Roy cutting nooses with one thrown, broken sword and Durkon destroying the animated trees shows that dramatic rules override game mechanic rules. Whether Roy will survive depends on the dramatic rules.

The characters seem to do an impossible trick if they do something clever or make a dramatic story, such as clever combinations of spells, clever use of a bag of tricks or identifying the missing, magical protection by shouting it. In this case, Roy dramatically jumps on a flying dragon and explains why he must take on Xykon despite the mistake of revenge. It makes a great story. Therefore, Roy gets to do an impossible trick, such as his hit points changing from -20 to 0 and summoning Celia, or hitting the pile of dead hobgoblins and taking token damage.

[Edivad]

I too am thinking he might use that Non-Booty Talisman. By the way, good that I wasnt't the only one to notice how weird it is that Celia can carry Roy when flying, even if he's unarmoured.
Celia just doesn't look like a physically strong character - the element of Air isn't usually associated with strength, and sylphs are usually thouht of as having a slight build.
That and Roy is supposed to be a big guy - probably weighting at least 180 pounds without his armor and battle gear.
Oh well, the power of Narrative Necessity can do wonders sometimes :-)


Edit: but perhaps, even if she cannot actually fly with Roy in full-battle gear, she might 'glide', slowing down the fall enough to be much less dangerous!

[BisectedBrioche]

I too am thinking he might use that Non-Booty Talisman. By the way, good that I wasnt't the only one to notice how weird it is that Celia can carry Roy when flying, even if he's unarmoured.
Celia just doesn't look like a physically strong character - the element of Air isn't usually associated with strength, and sylphs are usually thouht of as having a slight build.
That and Roy is supposed to be a big guy - probably weighting at least 180 pounds without his armor and battle gear.
Oh well, the power of Narrative Necessity can do wonders sometimes :-)


Edit: but perhaps, even if she cannot actually fly with Roy in full-battle gear, she might 'glide', slowing down the fall enough to be much less dangerous!


Or she could simply remove his armour ¬_¬. He would have to be falling for some length of time after all.

[Edivad]

Or she could simply remove his armour ¬_¬. He would have to be falling for some length of time after all.
So we'd get to see Celia undress Roy as he falls down...only to make him light enough to carry, of course.:smallbiggrin:

[Setra]

So we'd get to see Celia undress Roy as he falls down...only to make him light enough to carry, of course.:smallbiggrin:
Hey I dunno... Roy'd have to choose..

Living.. or dying after actually using the Talisman as a "Booty Talisman", while in mid-air, making for an interesting experience.

I'd choose the latter, of course I'm insane.

[Edivad]

Hilarious thing: if Roy's actually undressed of armor, Celia would have to drop the pieces...and armor pieces dropped from that high an height could do quite a lot of damage, perhaps as much as the dragon's head :-) Perhaps Roy's armor could fall on the other two intelligent undeads(the Haecuva and Eye of Fire and Flame)...

[Setra]

Hilarious thing: if Roy's actually undressed of armor, Celia would have to drop the pieces...and armor pieces dropped from that high an height could do quite a lot of damage, perhaps as much as the dragon's head :-) Perhaps Roy's armor could fall on the other two intelligent undeads(the Haecuva and Eye of Fire and Flame)...
No!

Durkon needs his spotlight!

He gets to kill those!

[happyturtle]

Summoning Celia only to see her unable to stop his fall would be rather dark, but then again, we're seeing a city get potentially decimated. Darkness is somewhat expected in that respect.

I hope this is what happens. Lots of story potential there. perhaps it will even be a dark version of the arrow joke, where Celia can't catch him, V casts Feather Fall but can't reach him, and Roy misses the pile of hobgob corpses.

[Lolzords]

I reckon he'll either call on Celia or V will cast feather fall.

[Hannes]

Er. I must say. When Roy cut off the dragon's head, it fell on one of the fake Xykons, the one near V. Deducted from that, I can say that V will notice Roy's fall and cast a Feather Fall on him. Unless... She's out of Feather Falls.

[happyturtle]

Er. I must say. When Roy cut off the dragon's head, it fell on one of the fake Xykons, the one near V. Deducted from that, I can say that V will notice Roy's fall and cast a Feather Fall on him. Unless... She's out of Feather Falls.

There was a long conversation (with monologues by both Xykon and Roy) followed by at least two rounds of combat, during which time the zombie dragon was flying away from where it dropped its head, so I think they have left V too far behind.

[Droodle]

Celia has proved capable of carrying Roy in flight. Celia has not yet proved capable of carrying Roy in flight while wearing his armor and gear. Celia doesn't need to be able to carry Roy in flight in order to save him. She just needs to be able to slow his descent.

[Roupe]

IMHO , No Roy shouldnt be able to survive that

But Death wouldnt be the end of a main character, Durkun or some other high lvl cleric with a diamond could ressurect him. No big deal.

and its also rather common in d20 adventures to figure out (after the fact that one should have acted diffrently, Roys bouty call could be used later on, or be a good excuse for a heated argument later (where his girlfrind asked why he didnt call her assistance):smallsmile:

[cavalier973]

Hey I dunno... Roy'd have to choose..

Living.. or dying after actually using the Talisman as a "Booty Talisman", while in mid-air, making for an interesting experience.

I'd choose the latter, of course I'm insane.

So are you lawful, neutral, or chaotic insane?

[Setra]

So are you lawful, neutral, or chaotic insane?
Neutral Insane.

[Demented]

Better than Insane Evil, or Insane Insane.

Which is to say, I enjoy the idea of the talisman breaking after it hits the ground.

[Jawajoey]

He can obviously survive everything Xykon has thrown at him so far. (no XX eyes). The fall, though, that would probably kill him. I doubt he's going to be hitting the ground violently, though.

[Assassinfox]

The answer is "No, Roy Would NOT Survive a Meteor Swarm and a Fall." :smallamused: