Looking to play a beguiler like character in 5.0

[STrain]

As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to build something like a beguiler in 5.0. I'm stuck between a lore college bard and a enchantment or illusion school wizard. Unfortunately it won't have the rogue like aspect too much though. Thanks!

Edit: I've seen the arcane trickster but they have very little in the way of spells

[burninatortrog]

If you're interested in a more rogue-like character, you may also want to consider playing a rogue with the Arcane Trickster archetype.

[ChubbyRain]

Refluffing the bard would be the best option really.

Urchin Cleric (Trickster) would do nicely.

[STrain]

Refluffing the bard would be the best option really.

Urchin Cleric (Trickster) would do nicely.

What exactly do you mean?

[Naanomi]

I'd go with lore bard as well, with a background that gives you thief tools. Expertise in deception, lore-bard debuff their intuition, tricksy spells; works just fine

[Easy_Lee]

I would argue that the best way to do this would be a Favored Soul: Trickery Domain.

Trickery spells such as charm person, disguise self, mirror image, pass without trace, modify memory, dominate person, and so on clearly fit the beguiler theme
You get meta magic. No other class can subtle cast a spell and modify someone's memory or cast charm person mid-conversation without alerting suspicion
Beguilers in 3.5 had more weapon and armor proficiencies than traditional casters, and so do favored souls

It's such a close fit that I'm surprised it wasn't the first option mentioned.

[Ashrym]

I would argue that the best way to do this would be a Favored Soul: Trickery Domain.

Trickery spells such as charm person, disguise self, mirror image, pass without trace, modify memory, dominate person, and so on clearly fit the beguiler theme
You get meta magic. No other class can subtle cast a spell and modify someone's memory or cast charm person mid-conversation without alerting suspicion
Beguilers in 3.5 had more weapon and armor proficiencies than traditional casters, and so do favored souls

It's such a close fit that I'm surprised it wasn't the first option mentioned.

This was going to be my suggestion. I agree.

[ChubbyRain]

What exactly do you mean?

What do you mean by that?

The beguiler and the bard was pretty much the same coin, just different sides. One was a bit more rogue, sure, but they had the same sort of core base.

Refluff most of the bardic inspiration stuff as enchantment or illusion abilities and you got yourself a ball game.


I would argue that the best way to do this would be a Favored Soul: Trickery Domain.

Trickery spells such as charm person, disguise self, mirror image, pass without trace, modify memory, dominate person, and so on clearly fit the beguiler theme
You get meta magic. No other class can subtle cast a spell and modify someone's memory or cast charm person mid-conversation without alerting suspicion
Beguilers in 3.5 had more weapon and armor proficiencies than traditional casters, and so do favored souls

It's such a close fit that I'm surprised it wasn't the first option mentioned.

Well Favored Soul is out but not officially... I don't like suggesting things to people that don't seem to be finished or playtested.

But otherwise yes, Favored Soul (Trickery) would work nicely. :smallcool:

Metamagic is a fricken awesome ability, I really really really hope they expand on it. I would love to see the sorcerer rebuilt with the idea of metamagic being used more often.

[Grek]

Urchin Warlock is perfect for this. At level one alone, you get:
Charm Person and Sleep as your spells known, casting one per short rest.
Fey Presence: AOE charm or AOE frighten once per short rest.
Minor Illusion and Friends as cantrips.
Proficiency in Deception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Theives Tools and Disguise Kits.
And then gets even better at 2nd level, when you get both Silent Image and Disguise Self as at will invocations.

[STrain]

Thank you everyone for all the help and suggestions!

[Dralnu]

I like Favored Soul (Trickery Domain) or Warlock (Fey Patron) as well. Both have CHA as a primary stat, access to armor/weapons, and a ton of enchantment/illusion stuff.

Warlock:
- Fey Patron gives you enchantment/illusion abilities and beguiler spells
- pact of the chain is amazing, pact of the tome gives you more beguiler-ish spells
- great beguiler invocations: beguiling influence, bewitching whispers, chains of carceri, dreadful word, mask of many faces, misty visions
- amazing at-will damage (agonizing eldritch blast) will cover your bases when you can't beguile your way out of a mess


Favored Soul:
- Trickery Domain gives you a ton of extra spells that fit the theme
- Subtle Metamagic: no verbal or somatic component to your spell, this is the main draw for being a beguiler sorcerer
- better armor (medium + shield vs. light armor)
- access to more beguiling spells -- I'm 90% sure at least, it's difficult to see which spells are exclusive to Warlock/Sorcerer and don't overlap, but overall I think Sorcerer has a better list

It's a toss-up honestly. I think both are a great fit. It depends which class you like more, since both can be customized to fit a beguiler afterward.

[Safety Sword]

In any case, the changes to how charm actually works in 5E is going to make for some weird changes to your effectiveness (especially at lower levels).