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View Full Version : Making a new system: a consideration.



ZeroGear
2015-05-17, 08:08 PM
Hello fellow gamers.

Not too long ago, I've been working on a system of my own that uses a rather unique set of mechanics. Rather than using dice to generate chance, it utilizes a standard 54 deck of playing cards (jokers included) and focusses on card drawing and total numbers. I am happy to say that (so far) I've finished the very core aspect of the game and only need to test it out before I move onto developing secondary items (I've finished the rules applicable to any setting, I will be moving onto creation "modular" components that give specific examples to create settings like 'fantasy', 'medieval'. 'space age', and 'modern').

As it stands, I intend to create a system that I like to refer to as "modular". All you need to run any game of any setting is the core set of rules, but the "secondary" components create established rule sets that allow you to create specific settings without having to create components of your own (aka. you can run games without these, but you will have to make up more components by yourself. Rules for that will be included).
One can think of this as a set of legos: all you need to build hundreds of creations are a few simple bricks, but adding in more kinds of brick can create a larger variety of things you can build with less frustration.

While I'm working on this, I considered turning the creation into a set of PDF files that could easily be distributed. These will include the rule sets and a few "snarky", bottom-line illustrations (my art skills are not good, I'm not going to lie about it), ad be digitally distributed in printable copies.

So, here's the question:
If I created this, and added in some sketches, making each file about 10-20 pages, would anyone want to buy that for $1-2 per file?

I'm not a business man, and I'm not making this primarily for profit. But if I can get something out if this I would like to, so I wanted to hear from the community at large.
What do all of you think about this?

grimsly
2015-05-17, 08:36 PM
I like this idea, it sounds pretty reasonable to me. I'd put together some larger files that cover several of these rules and offer it in one download. That would make it easier for a gm to tell his players what to get. If you could do separate files for players reference and GM's guide that would be useful too.

As far as the business aspect goes, make sure you get the right kind of license for it. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to look for somebody to help with the illustrations, it really helps make the whole thing look more enticing and professional.

ZeroGear
2015-05-17, 11:44 PM
Thank you for the suggestion.

Some time down the line, I am considering making a "compendium" that will encompass several of the "segments" I wish to create.
According to the list I've been making for myself, I've got about 21 "secondaries" and one "primary", but making them will take some time.
Illustrations, it is shameful to say, may not be quite so professional at this stage. I'm pretty much making this product on a $0 budget , as I intend to start very small. If it picks up interest, I fully intend to run a Kickstarter to make more professional products, possibly print versions, but that is a good while down the road.

You mentioned licenses?
I'm only familiar with the Open Gaming License, so if there is anything I need to do/get, advice would be appreciated (to the extent of my knowledge, anyone can claim and use the OGL without much of a fuss or a lawyer, am I wrong about this?).

Vitruviansquid
2015-05-18, 01:37 AM
1. Getting their wallet out online is a surprisingly onerous thing for a surprising number of people. Even if everything you put out cost a cent, I would consider just the work of giving you the money to be a major dissuading factor, unless you were on some service that I already have an account for and that isn't too bothersome about how they distribute products, or you put out quite a bit of content and then sold it as a compendium.

2. I don't know who you are, I don't know what your game design philosophy is, and I don't know anything about your game. Unless you have some way of showing me, I probably never will know any of those. But the ugly reality is, I will judge your game by looking at everything around your game that shouldn't ultimately matter - I'll look at your art, and if it looks amateurish I'll assume your game is amateurish. Then I'll look at your website, and if it looks amateurish, I'll assume your game is amateurish. What you could do is make everything look professional, but then you are probably investing more time (maybe money) into the project than you wanted to in the first place. Another thing you can try is to put out sensible free teaser content so people can get an idea of what your game's about before deciding to buy it or not.

You are not primarily making this for profit, as you said, so I'm going to assume a major motivation for you is passion, and just wanting people to read your game. So what asking for money will end up doing is dramatically reduce the number of people who even read your system for a very minor payoff - maybe a hundred bucks if you get incredibly lucky. If you are entertaining a kickstarter in the future or are doing it for any reason that's not making money, I think it would be wise if you did not charge any money.

ZeroGear
2015-05-18, 06:52 AM
If I wanted to make it more professional, would it be better to just leave it as text only? Possibly with only minor decorations around the edges?
Are there any services you would recommend? Anything that most people use, such as RPG Drivethrough?
Would it be better if I made a rukes website, such as d20pfsrd, and simply offered purchisable versions on the side?

Jay R
2015-05-18, 07:44 AM
More than anything else, you need to give me a reason to buy it.

I own five versions of D&D, and roughly a dozen other rpgs. Why should I buy another?

So far you've said that it uses cards instead of dice. Why or how does that improve the game? Why would this game be enough more fun than others to justify learning yet another set of rules?

The others are correct that artwork can provide a reason to buy the product, but it isn't the only way. You need what economists cal a "competitive advantage" - a specific reason to buy your game instead of somebody else's.

erikun
2015-05-18, 08:12 AM
While your price and offer does sound reasonable, I can probably find nearly 20 RPGs online for free without too much work. I would need a VERY good reason to not only look at, but also pay for another one just to view the rules available. I realize that it does put you into somewhat of an awkward position, trying to compete with both established and free RPGs that are out there, but I'm afraid that's something that will be there regardless.

grimsly
2015-05-18, 08:54 AM
If I wanted to make it more professional, would it be better to just leave it as text only? Possibly with only minor decorations around the edges?
Are there any services you would recommend? Anything that most people use, such as RPG Drivethrough?
Would it be better if I made a rukes website, such as d20pfsrd, and simply offered purchisable versions on the side?

1. Crappy illustrations are usually better than no illustrations as far as readability goes. You could also serve some of the same purpose with charts or tables, just breaking up the text in a few places to make the document more visually appealing.

2. Cool edges, neat (readable) fonts for headings, pop out boxes, there's a lot outside of illustrations you can do to make a more interesting product. For ideas, you might want to take a look at thefreerpgblog.com, which gives a pretty diverse list of games you could totally run for free, a few of which have full versions that they sell as well. Which isn't a bad idea, by the way, and I think would lend itself well to your system. I'd particularly suggest a look at Simplicity for minimal artwork, since it has a grand total of one drawing in it, two if you count the sword on the cover.

3&4. Anything that uses PayPal is probably a good bet.

5. Not a bad idea, you could also look into print on demand, though I have no idea how they'd handle modular design.

Good luck with whatever you try, and let us know when you have something available to read!

ZeroGear
2015-05-18, 06:30 PM
Thank you for the pointers and feedback so far, I'm really learning a lot here.
Anyway, more questions:

If one of the biggest barriers here is getting people to look at the rules, would it be better to provide the "core" as a free sample, but offer the other segments as optional add-ons?

Is print-on-demand better than offering a printable version of the PDF? Would it be better to do both options?
---------

Anyway, allow me to give a little more information about my system:

The system I'm building is a classless RPG with a playing card based system that measures stats in the form of 'number of draws'. Much like how D&D gives bonuses for certain stat increments, stats in this game grant a number of draws from a deck. Target numbers are based upon difficulty of the challenge, and are achieved by adding summing the drawn cards (although combat is a bit more intricate)(also, aces count as 1's and jokers count as 0's).
Different abilities add or subtract draws, and draws cannot exceed seven cards total (anything above this allows a player to shuffle cards back into the deck and draw new ones).

One of the advantages this has over other games is that you really don't need a table to play. Since cards don't need to be put on any surface, unlike dice, this game can be played anywhere people can gather (granted, you may want something to hold you character sheet with, like a clip board or notebook, but you get the idea).
Another advantage is that materials can be gathered at almost any connivence store, as decks of cards are relatively cheap and easy to get (some places even give them away free).

---------
On a somewhat related note, I'm debating whether a minimum of one or two decks is required.
Both have pros and cons:
-A single deck may need to be passed around and shuffled more often than multiple decks, but it minimizes chances to cheat because everyone is dealt from it.
-Multiple decks reduce the constant need to shuffle and pass them around, but may lead to stacked decks and accusations.

I'm not a mathematician, so I'm not precisely sure how this would influence the odds of opposing draws. I would appreciate some feedback if anyone has more experience with this than I do.

Waywardson
2015-05-18, 11:23 PM
I find this idea interesting, and if I were in a good mood I might even spend a couple of bucks on it, though the earlier post about how irritating it can be to buy something online is a big factor.

If your really not in it for the money but would like to make a few bucks off of it, the idea of having a free core set with some add on additions is not a bad way to go, assuming these additions are of good quality and really add to the experience.

Jay R
2015-05-19, 08:16 AM
Playtest, playtest, playtest.

Before considering selling it, you need to play it with several people - definitely more than two separate groups - to find the flaws, and to hear what people actually like and don't like about it. Telling us it uses cards allows us to guess at what effect that will have, but what you need are actual observations from players.

The fact that it doesn't need dice won't affect most established gamers. We all have the dice we need, and many of us have far more than we need.

The fact that it doesn't need a table will rarely affect me, since I prefer playing with minis, and certainly want chips, drinks, pizza, etc. But it might sell the idea to some people. Test it. Try playing the game in line for a movie, and play in a living room where everybody gets a comfortable padded chair.

Two decks will have a little effect. It will, for instance, be slightly more likely to draw three aces, or three kings. (Obviously, it's more likely to draw five aces or kings, since that's impossible with one deck.) But the difference probably won't be noticeable in play. But try it both ways, and see if people actually can tell a difference.

ZeroGear
2015-05-19, 07:35 PM
This leads me to another question/proposal:
If I created a prototype document and posted it here, would anyone like to try it out?
---
A note on the decks:
When I said one or two decks, I meant that as "one deck for the whole group" or "each person has their own deck of cards"/"one deck for players and one for the DM".
Multiple decks never get meted together, sorry if I wan't clear on this.

mikeejimbo
2015-05-19, 11:58 PM
In addition to the rest of the excellent advice, you might consider a "Pay what you want" model, as well, possibly at least for the supplements with the core rules free. That way when they get excited about the core rules they might say "Yeah, I'll pay $1 for the fantasy supplement!" (If you do go for a "Pay what you want" model, I'd recommend noting that $1 - or whatever you decide on - is the suggested rate.)