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View Full Version : Pathfinder Vexing Dodger's (Rogue achetype) Limb-Climber ability needs explanation



rufferv2k
2015-05-17, 11:40 PM
I am creating my new 1-st level character for a campaign, and wanted to make something interesting, with a flavor. I was wondering about Vexing Dodger Rogue archetype. Since i have chosen a Grippli as my race, and they are small creatures with a climb speed, Vexing Dodger's Limb-Climber ability was looking pretty good.

When adjacent to or in the space of a corporeal creature at least one size category larger than herself, a vexing dodger can climb that creature's body with a successful Climb check against a DC equal to the target creature's CMD. Although the vexing dodger is holding on to the creature, this action isn't a grapple; it doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity from the creature, and neither the vexing dodger nor the creature she climbs gains the grappled condition. While the vexing dodger is on the climbed creature, the creature takes a penalty on attack rolls against the vexing dodger equal to the number of sneak attack dice the dodger possesses.

But i have some questions about this move:
1) I am considered climbing the creature, so do i loose all my Dexterity AC while doing so? If yes, then what the purpose of that ability at all? Ok, it gives a small bonus equal to my Sneak Attack dice, but this is ludicrous.
2) Do i have to enter the square of the creature i am climbing? The text does not say so, but that seems logical to me.
3) Performing this would be a Standard Action, or a Move Action?
4) Do i need both hands free to climb a creature?
5) Am i able to flank that creature while i am climbing it?
6) Can the creature attack me normally, just with a penalty? From my perspective if i climb to the creatures back, it would require a great effort to strike me with a sword.
7) And lastly, what can i do when i have successfully climbed it? It is cool and all, a frog that jumps on people and starts harassing them, but what else? If i need both hands to climb, i cannot attack, what then?

Thanks everyone in advance!

Psyren
2015-05-18, 12:08 AM
1) Gripplis have a climb speed, so you don't have to worry about losing your Dex bonus, and you can also take 10 on your climb check even in combat. For other creatures, you generally have to either get a climb speed somehow, negate this drawback using a separate feat (e.g. Monkey Moves), or use Pathfinder Unchained's Skill Unlock system to unlock the Climb skill.

2) No, just like you wouldn't need to enter their space while grappling. You can for particularly large creatures (whose space you can share anyway) but fluffwise you should think of this more as hopping around on/dangling off their extremities, and being otherwise vexing to them, than any kind of wrestling or entanglement. Also, see #5 below.

3) You would use the action of the climb skill itself (i.e. a move action) unless otherwise stated.

4) Yes, you usually need both hands free to climb anything. Once you've gotten onto them however, you can hang on with one hand as per the climbing rules, allowing you to draw a weapon/attack with the other; alternatively, you can simply use a weapon that doesn't need your hands at all, like a bite, or armor spikes, or an unarmed strike to kick/headbutt.

5) Yes - so long as you stay adjacent to the enemy, you will still be able to flank them with an ally since you are not actually grappling.

6) There is no "facing" in 3.5 or Pathfinder - even if you flavor your climb as jumping onto their back, they take no additional penalty beyond the existing one, i.e. equal to your number of sneak attack dice. Remember also that creatures are assumed to be in constant motion during combat, so even if you were to climb onto a larger creature's back, it would be twisting around trying to hit you and you would be shifting position or even changing vantage points periodically.

7) See #4 - once you are on them you can hang on using only one hand, allowing you to attack with the other, or just use a weapon that doesn't use your hands.

Note also that, as written, whenever you take damage while climbing you will need another climb check to avoid falling, though most of the time you won't actually take any falling damage from this, it just means you'll have to try to climb them again next round.

rufferv2k
2015-05-18, 12:13 AM
1) Gripplis have a climb speed, so you don't have to worry about losing your Dex bonus, and you can also take 10 on your climb check even in combat. For other creatures, you generally have to either get a climb speed somehow, negate this drawback using a separate feat (e.g. Monkey Moves), or use Pathfinder Unchained's Skill Unlock system to unlock the Climb skill...

Thanks for the quick response! That explains a lot of things.