Eldritch Knight Adjustments

[Madfellow]

I've never really had an issue with the Eldritch Knight subclass, but I am aware that there are a number of people who are dissatisfied with it. Looking over it again, it does definitely lean more toward the knight half than the eldritch half, and I can see how that might turn someone off from it if they're going for a gish build. That got me thinking if there was a way to adjust the EK slightly to bring it more in line with traditional gish expectations. I'm posting this here for two reasons: first, I don't want to flood the homebrew subforum with yet another gish design, and second, I don't really consider this a full-on homebrew. Really it's just an adjustment. Without further ado:

Step 1: Reduce hit dice to d8.
Step 2: Remove heavy armor proficiency.
Step 3: Exchange Strength save for Intelligence save.
Step 4: Exchange Animal Handling for Arcana.
Step 5: Exchange EK spells known and spell slot progression for that of the ranger.
Step 6: Remove the EK spell school restrictions.
Step 7: Keep the EK's cantrips known, but starting at level 2.
Step 8: Delay Action Surge until level 3.
Step 9: Exchange Second Wind and Weapon Bond for the warlock's Pact Weapon at level 1.

So what do you think? It sacrifices some of the fighter's durability in exchange for more spell mastery, while keeping its action economy intact. The goal was to change as little as possible.

[DivisibleByZero]

At this point you're literally talking about an entirely different class, not a changing of the subclass.
You're making a Spellsword class. And that class would lose access to the second and third extra attacks, just like every single non-fighter in the game does.
With that in mind, many of the fighter abilities no longer make sense, and would need to be changed (at least somewhat) to accommodate for the fact that it is no longer a fighter by any metric.

[Bigby]

On the other hand, I would love to see a Spellsword class concept. Someone who uses a blade but also casts magic, kind of 50/50 I guess, or casts with their sword. Things like that. Not "Fighter with magic" but more "fighter and mage hybrid" in a more pure sense, I guess. It's hard to explain what I mean here.

Keep in mind I have no idea how the original class works. But I would like to see something along those lines, all the same, maybe with subclasses to focus more on a certain style (melee with little magic, melee equal to magic, magic more than melee). Though balancing for that might be difficult, too.

I dunno, random thought I had.

Maybe I'll look around the Homebrew section later.

[Dhavaer]

Maybe I'll look around the Homebrew section later.

You won't have to look long, it's probably the most popular thing to homebrew for 5E. I've done one myself, have a look at my sig.

[Madfellow]

At this point you're literally talking about an entirely different class, not a changing of the subclass.

Essentially, yeah. This would just be something to have on hand in case a player comes up and says, "I want to play a TRUE gish."

[DivisibleByZero]

Essentially, yeah. This would just be something to have on hand in case a player comes up and says, "I want to play a TRUE gish."

That's what Bladelock is for. I'd direct you to the current thread between BLs and EKs, but it's basically a bunch of people arguing, myself included, so instead I'll just quote why the Bladelock is the built in 5e gish.


Full caster progression, on time, to 9th level spellcasting, which stays relevant and competitive with full casters throughout the entire game.
Single target blasting capabilities on par with any other class in the game.
Melee damage which can, if you choose to use resources, be absolutely competitive with any other melee class in the game through 19 levels.
Given the proper choices, temp HP can make him just as durable as most defensive classes, at the expense of some of your offense.
The Blade Pact Warlock is the definition of a Gish in 5e, right out of the box.

[Troacctid]

Or, you know, Paladin, or Ranger, or Cleric, or Bard, or any other magical class with appropriate racial proficiencies. Or multiclass. :smalltongue:

[miburo]

You won't have to look long, it's probably the most popular thing to homebrew for 5E. I've done one myself, have a look at my sig.

Indeed, it's a popular type to go after =P. I have my own 5E Swordmage class in my sig below (for anyone following along, this is a substantive update from the previous iteration).

[Madfellow]

Or, you know, Paladin, or Ranger, or Cleric, or Bard, or any other magical class with appropriate racial proficiencies. Or multiclass. :smalltongue:

As I said in my original post, I have no problem with the options procided in the PHB. I'm just aware that some other people are dissatisfied.

[Fyndhal]

In my mind, the EK (and AT for rogues) are very close to being right. Once you get to level 10 or so, they play fine. The problem is at lower levels in the 3-8 range, they just aren't as interesting or strong as other classes. This is mainly due to being starved for spell slots, but also due to difficulty in getting spells cast in some cases.

My fix for this, which I've not playtested, so take it with a grain of salt is as follows:


Bonded Weapon is considered an Arcane Focus which the Eldritch Knight is proficient in.
Add 1 the the number of spells per day for 1st level spells. This means 3 spells at level 3, 4 at level 2 and so on.
Alternatively, gain Arcane Recovery (as the Wizard class skill) at level 3.