Deep water salvage- Druid mission

[Hiro Quester]

Our party just dealt with an encounter on a derelict ship trapped in sargasso. The hold in the ship was filled with gold. As we dealt with the major monster that had held the sargasso together, the sargasso broke up and the derelict ship sank, with all its cargo.

I'm a playing (in the Savage Tide adventure path) a newly graduated forest gnome druid7/monk1 (I just went up a level at the end of the encounter). Our books are Core plus PH2, DMG2, and Stormwrack. My AC died in the encounter (so it goes), so I can attract a new aquatic AC tomorrow, too. 7th level AC options now available.

I'm considering going on a mission to the bottom to explore the wreck and recover some of the gold, if the sea isn't too obscenely deep here. (DM is currently considering how deep the sea is here; I'm hoping not too deep since we have been traveling between islands in a chain.)

Questions: What wildshape form to use? What animal companion to recruit? What spells to prepare? Best method of raising treasure to the surface? Best way to get me back to the surface?

Here's the plan. I'd appreciate suggestions of improvements.

(1) What wildshape?

Obviously, I'd wildshape into an aquatic creature that breathes water and can live deep, pumping up constitution to deal with the fort saves that deep water requires (Stormwrack, p.11). It causes 1d6 per 200 feet below 500 feet deep. You make a fort save once each minute (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) to avoid this damage. However, creatures adapted to the deep don't take such damage. Some octopuses live at this depth, so I'l ask the DM if I can make a knowledge (nature) check to know about that type of octopus. (I lived 30 years on a privateer ship, so it's possible.)

I'll get the party rogue to tie a rope to me (in a way my tentacles can untie), and tie the other end to a weight to help me sink, a light source (cast light on the rope perhaps) and bag of holding down deep to recover items.

(2) What animal companion?

The AC is limited to the animals in the local sea (tropical ocean). Storm wrack gives Dire Barracuda as a possibility. Better strength and constitution, and a decent number of hit points, which should help. Plus if it stays close it can benefit from any buffs and spells I cast on myself, which can include E's Menacing Tentacles to get a strong and dextrous AC helping gather the treasure (if only for 7 rounds).

But perhaps a squid would be better. As a 7th level druid, a squid AC would get +4 hd, plus +2 Str and Con. It wouldn't have enough HP to last long down deep, though.

Are there better options?

(3) What spells to prepare?

I don't need to prepare heals. I have the Spontaneous Healer feat; a bonus "regional" feat --everyone in our party got one such feat at first level. This means that I can convert any spells to a "cure" spells like a cleric, to heal some of the damage being deep can cause.

I'll probably cast an extended water breathing the night before (2hrs/level = 28 hour duration). Just in case.

Detect animals and plants (detecting sargasso, or the surface lichen that coated parts of the ship) should help locate the wreck, which will have taken a few bits of surface plants with it; those plants will only be around recently sunken wrecks and would not occur naturally at the bottom of the sea. The long range on this helps a lot.

Detect magic can help locate important items in the wreck.

Spells that help speak to, calm, charm, or dominate animals I might meet in the deep and would like to recruit. Anti-plant shell in case plant creatures that attacked us on the sargasso are still alive down there.

Evard's menacing tentacles spell can help add two longer 10' tentacles, for giving manual dexterity to my wildshape form. (but the main point is that share spells can give tentacles to a stronger Animal Companion, too.)

Meld into Stone (to "rest" inside a stone protected from the pressure, perhaps while being lifted to the surface). The ship had a few small marble statues on it that might do the trick, or I could take a stone my size with me as the weight that helps me sink. Plus a few buffs like Bull's strength and bear's endurance, at least. Renewed vigor (+2 untyped bonus to CON) and a couple of castings of resistance when the fort saves start getting high or important.

I can summon aquatic creatures (esp. Elementals) for help collecting items (maybe even placing the stone I meld into in the BoH or diving bell, if necessary), and other aquatic creatures for help.

(4) how to get the treasure to the surface?
I can use wood shape to create a diving bell shape or two from a piece of the wreckage, with space to hold items and/or BoH and a large piece of metal (or just the treasure) at the bottom of each. Then use heat metal to create steam that will float it up to the surface. Party members waiting in dinghies above ready to haul them in when they surface.

Other suggestions? Are there spells that could inflate a balloon under water more reliably or economically (in terms of spell levels).

(5) Getting me back to the surface

Like I said, I could meld into a stone and have that lifted to the surface, too, if I'm running out of time, fort saves, or HP.

Or just tie a rope to the diving bell I create and be pulled up with the treasure. Holding on, so if I let g from hazard (bends) it wild keep getting worse.

I'm worried about getting the bends, though. Is this just a problem for air-breathers like us, or for animals, too? I'll probably just be able to swim slowly up if I'm in octopus form. Maybe get a ride to 500 feet at least, so I stop taking pressure damage.

Having our ship's cleric ready to cast a cure spell, or remove disease (the bends) or neutralize poison (nitrogen in blood) might not be a bad idea. Other preparations for recovery at the surface?

Any suggestions on other ways of improving success on a deep water mission like this?

[Story]

Heart of Water takes care of the water breathing thing pretty well and gives you a racial swim speed. It's Personal only though, so if the rest of the party isn't casters, you'll still need a different spell for them.

Hide From Animals is useful in case you run into non magical sharks, octopi or the like.

[Hiro Quester]

Heart of Water takes care of the water breathing thing pretty well and gives you a racial swim speed. It's Personal only though, so if the rest of the party isn't casters, you'll still need a different spell for them.

Hide From Animals is useful in case you run into non magical sharks, octopi or the like.

The heart of... Spells aren't in our books, unfortunately. But hide from animals is a good idea. Thanks.

[JDL]

My recommendation: Meld into Stone on the surface and have your allies drop you off the side with a rope tied around the stone. Drop to the bottom as a block of stone, hit yourself with all of your protection spells and exit the stone at the bottom. Saves yourself needing to take damage as you're swimming down. Load up the loot as you've already planned.

If I was a DM, I'd make you land some distance from the wreck itself and need to search to find it, since dropping to the bottom isn't a perfect means of locating the wreck. Unfortunately Commune with Nature and Find the Path is outside of your level. Your next best bet to actually find the wreck without wandering around forever is Speak with Animals to ask the locals where it is.

[Bad Wolf]

Are Monster Manuals II-V considered core?

[Hiro Quester]

Are Monster Manuals II-V considered core?

Just MMI so far.

SWA is a good way to find the wreck. I'm also planning on using locate animals and plants, since the wreck will have surface plants stuck in it.

I thought about using meld with stone on the way down. I forgot you could buff while inside the stone; that helps a lot, JDL. I'll prepare two castings of that spell.

[Maglubiyet]

Lowering yourself as an octopus on a glowing rope into the pelagic zone of the ocean would be a good way to catch large predators! :eek: Use a strong hook!

It's not exactly the Bends, but many creatures in the ocean are pressure sensitive. Bony fish have a swim bladder that would rupture if they rose too quickly. Sharks don't have swim bladders, though, and neither do squid and octopi. If the sea floor isn't too deep, less than 500 feet or so, you shouldn't have any problems.

Truly deep-sea organisms that live at depths of greater than a mile (1.6 km) have adaptations that could cause their cells to explode when brought to the surface.

What about Meld into Stone, drop over the edge and sink to the bottom. Exit stone, Summon Nature's Ally to assist the gold collection, and place loot into your Bag of Holding. Then cast Tree Shape, turn into a giant dead log and float back up? Tree Shape duration should get you all the way to the surface.

[Beowulf DW]

If you have other casters in the party, I'd recommend gathering up some boulders, casting light on them, and dropping them all over the sea floor before you go down, rather than lighting the rope you're on. Or maybe find a way to get yourself darkvision.

Remember that there's always a bigger fish and bright lights tend to draw things in the deep ocean.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Hiro Quester
Then use heat metal to create steam that will float it up to the surface.

Steam only appears when water boils into the atmosphere; using Heat Metal under the ocean, especially at pressure, will only create hot water which will rise up above your metal object. For a real-life example of what happens when superheated water hits cold, pressurized seawater, look into deepsea rift-vents.


Originally Posted by Hiro Quester
What wildshape?

If you want a creature adapted for cold, deep waters, you can always ask your DM if you can use my homebrew coelacanth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?291908-The-Coelacanth-3-5-Creature-WIP-PEACH).

:smallbiggrin:

[Bronk]

The pressure rules in Stormwrack mention giant squid and whales as being pressure adapted, but those are just two examples, not an exhaustive list. You can talk to your DM about picking a squid Animal Companion of a kind that is also found in both deep sea and shallow waters. It seems to me that quite a few kinds go back and forth during the day and night, and that would be perfect for you.

As for your wildshape forms, you can turn into that same squid. If your DM doesn't go for it, you can just use more wildshape uses to switch forms when you're deep enough to be damaged by pressure. A quick wikipedia search turned up a bunch of deep sea sharks you could turn into so you'd still be sticking to the monster manual.

[Hiro Quester]

I was thinking of a deep sea octopus form (there is a kind that lives from 1000 to 24 000 feet deep). Lower me in a rock (slowly), come out and explore gather treasure in BoH, then meld back with the rock again to be raised (slowly).

But DM says I wouldn't be familiar with that deep sea creature. And our ship captain says we don't have time to stop for days to go treasure hunting. And the sea is more than 5000 feet deep and that's all the rope we have (50x100 foot ropes).

Metagame: that treasure is too much for our group to have right now. It was supposed to tempt us but sink out of reach.

But we marked the spot on our charts, memorized the precise mix of plant and animal life here at this time or year. If only we had an immovable rod to tie to a distinctive --not from around here-- plant from my botanical collection, we could make a marker we (but nobody else) could find.

We might come back in a few levels time, when I'll know the "Transformation of the Deeps" spell that makes 1 creature/3 levels immune to the cold and pressure for hour/level. Then with a few swim spells, 3 or 4 of us could just swim down together.

Or maybe this will be a retirement project for my PC, after the adventure path is completed. :smallwink:

[Maglubiyet]

5000+ feet, whoa that's deep. Chances are the ship didn't go straight down either. It could've corkscrewed, glided, or wafted like a settling leaf as it drifted down through a mile of water. Currents may have influenced its descent. You might have a lot of territory to cover once you hit the bottom.

In the pitch black it could take you quite a while. If there's any terrain on the bottom -- hills, rocky crags, crevices, etc. -- things could be dicey. Locate Object and other divination spells are your friend.

The local kraken or morkoth might have stashed away the loot by the time you get back to it.

[Bronk]

But DM says I wouldn't be familiar with that deep sea creature. And our ship captain says we don't have time to stop for days to go treasure hunting. And the sea is more than 5000 feet deep and that's all the rope we have (50x100 foot ropes).

Metagame: that treasure is too much for our group to have right now. It was supposed to tempt us but sink out of reach.

Heh, I was afraid of something like that. Your DM should have just said that up front! There's no in-game reason not to explore that ship, nor is there any real reason to prevent you from taking whatever animal companion or wild shape for you want... Familiarity can come from personal experience, sure, but also from relatively easy to make knowledge nature checks.


Or maybe this will be a retirement project for my PC, after the adventure path is completed. :smallwink:


Hah! I hope enough time goes by that it has increased in value due to archaeological significance and has nice, price enhancing coral attached to it!

I have a feeling that if you go any time before that, the local undersea creatures would have carried everything away...

[Maglubiyet]

I hope enough time goes by that it has increased in value due to archaeological significance and has nice, price enhancing coral attached to it!


Coral doesn't grow much deeper than 100 - 200 feet - not enough sunlight for photosynthesis.

[Bronk]

Coral doesn't grow much deeper than 100 - 200 feet - not enough sunlight for photosynthesis.

Well, it would have to be dire dark coral, of course.

[Geddy2112]

In pathfinder, this would be a non issue because you have access to wild shape to become a water elemental and that settles that. I argue that since you have 3 wild shapes you can go down as one type of animal, then another while you are down, and surface as a third type.

For a diver, why not go with cuvier's beaked whale? http://www.cascadiaresearch.org/reports/Schorretal2014.pdfIt is the deepest diving creature on earth and as an air breathing pelagic creature, your druid would have seen one(or know of their existence, or any other deep diving whale if your DM wants to re-skin the particular details). On one breath they can go 6000+ feet, so with water breathing you should be fine with pressure and maneuvering in the depths. Calm animals, charm animals and control water should handle most of the animal problems. Once you are within the area and depth, giant squid to do the manual work. Alchemical air bladders or other similar things that could float the treasure up will do, or convince another whale to help you carry it. Then whale again, and up you go.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Geddy2112
For a diver, why not go with cuvier's beaked whale? It is the deepest diving creature on earth….

On one breath they can go 6000+ feet….

Actually, the Schorr et al. paper you've linked gives their maximum recorded dive as 2292 m, which is a little over 7500 feet. Sperm whales are a very close second at roughly 7300 feet.

The trick with either of these species is their body size. A seventh-level druid is limited to Large forms, and a Ziphius is 15-20 feet and 4000+ pounds, which might be outside that size range.

For an alternative, there's the Chilean Devil Ray (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/chilean-devil-rays-among-deepest-diving-animals-ocean-180951920/?no-ist), which is only 10 feet long and can reach a depth of 6000 feet--and since they're fish, not mammals, there's no need to worry about casting Water Breathing.


Originally Posted by Bronk
Well, it would have to be dire dark coral, of course.

Nice save there. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Maglubiyet
Coral doesn't grow much deeper than 100 - 200 feet - not enough sunlight for photosynthesis.

In fact there are deepwater (http://ocean.si.edu/deep-sea-corals) corals (http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewArticle.do?id=3801) growing comfortably 20,000 feet under the ocean surface. The shallow-water corals you're thinking of don't require the sunlight for themselves, but for their symbiotic zooxanthallae. Deepwater corals don't need endosymbiotic algae and can survive quite handily at depth without them.

[Story]

Don't Deepwater Corals grow much more slowly as a result though? Better be an ancient ship.

[Maglubiyet]

In fact there are deepwater (http://ocean.si.edu/deep-sea-corals) corals (http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewArticle.do?id=3801) growing comfortably 20,000 feet under the ocean surface. The shallow-water corals you're thinking of don't require the sunlight for themselves, but for their symbiotic zooxanthallae. Deepwater corals don't need endosymbiotic algae and can survive quite handily at depth without them.

We'll I'll be darned, that's pretty cool! I majored in biology and took a lot of marine zoology and ecology classes in grad school and I never heard of this. Thanks for the reference!

Their growth rate is pretty slow, so still probably wouldn't be a factor for this treasure ship, but still...