Gish with druid spellcasting?

[Jiruharudo]

Hey guys, short question;

Does anyone of you know a flavor-reason to play a druid without actually having to worship nature?
Blighter comes to mind, but it seems a little much for what I had in mind and you do lose your spelllist.

Urban Druid from Dragon comp. has a lessen spelllist but would've been perfect, but my DM does not allow it.

I want to play a Gishish character, and I love the buff spells for quarterstaff Druid gets (Spikes, Shillelagh, Entangling Staff etc) who is in it for the money. Rogueish flavor basically. A raider. Someone who respects nature, but would rather live forever despite it being unnatural.

I read about druids worshiping Dragons and I can imagine those wanting to have little treasure-hoard for themselves, but I can only find Aspect of Dragon (dragon magic) and it doesn't give much flavor.

Im also a big fan of the Dragonfire Adept, but since one of us already played it, I'm skipping it.

Basically, I would like ideas for a buffer who can hold its own even in a antimagic field.

Sorry if this seems rather vague. :x

[Rhaegar14]

While I can't help you with the roleplaying requirements of Druid, Unearthed Arcana has the Druidic Avenger alternate class feature, which swaps out Wild Shape for the Barbarian's rage features. This is a terrible trade-off from an optimization standpoint but it may help you get the flavor you're looking for.

You could borrow from the 4e Barbarian's fluff; you're not a Druid, but a warrior that draws power from the primal spirits of the world. Your character could look at the spirits as tools or servants instead of things to be worshiped.

[HammeredWharf]

SRD has the Swift Hunter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) in it. You could use it as a basis of a mounted build, with your animal companion acting as a mount. Not completey optimal, but last time I did it I ended up doing ~100 DPR around lvl 6 in addition to having superb defenses and some druid spells. It's much better than the Avenger IMO, because the Avenger can't cast while raging, can't summon spontaneously and loses his animal companion. If you want to be more roguelike, you could take the Halfling Druid substitution levels from Races of the Wild to get climb, jump, move silently, and hide, as well as extra skill points.

As for fluff, read Planar Shepher's fluff and adapt it. Basically, your character serves nature, but thinks the traditional definition of nature is too narrow and should include X.

[eggynack]

There are really two main ways to do this, I would think. First, you have the really deep rooted approach, where the fundamentals of the flavor attached to things support the idea that you're devoted to something other than nature. Basically, that would mean the text actually saying something like, "Your druid spurns nature, and has professed his adoration of baking." It could also mean any other sort of really big change, not so much to flavor as to underlying class features. That method is attractive, because you end up with something that is very much the thing you're aiming towards, and that seems to be where you've been headed, given the whole blighter and urban druid thing, but it's not really how I'd do this, because it tends to be a bit on the blunt side.

The second method, the one I prefer, is starting with your concept, in this case the thing you're devoted to, and then just pulling as many relevant elements into your build as you can stomach. What you end up with is something close to a straight druid, but with so much themed stuff that it just feels like the thing it's supposed to be. I guess the main difference between this methodology and the last is that the first way is based on one big thing, while this is more of a bunch of small things.

For example, let's look at what you've proposed, the dragon devoted druid, because it seems to be the thing you're most interested in. You could just use aspect of the dragon, because it's one of the better things you can trade wild shape for (really shows the sad state of things you can trade for wild shape), or you can go with a million small things. For race, maybe pull a dragonborn (RotD, 8) desert half-orc, with the relevant substitution levels (RoD, 159). That'd get you some dragon flavor right off the bat, as well as some of that classic draconic toughness. For feats, there's not a massive amount, but dragon wild shape (Draconomicon, 105) is as amazing as it is flavorful. For prestige classes, maybe dip into dracolyte (Draconomicon, 122) and singer of concordance (RotD, 91) for some dragon themed domain action. For spells, perhaps consider the primal X spells from dragon magic, and some other spells from that book too, cause it's got some sweet options in general. Finally, for the companion, if you want to go really deep, maybe get a phynxkin companion (DrM, 13), which is a bit worse than normal companions, but gets some added flavor benefits.

What you're left with, then, is a character with a whole lot of dragon stuff. Could they be more draconic on a flavor level? Maybe, but flavor is mutable, and at the end of the day, what's going to convince people you really love dragons is the fact that you know about dragons, and talk a lot about them, and don't care as much about nature. You may want to pick up knowledge (arcana), incidentally. Singer of concordance does that, and you can always pick up knowledge devotion if you want to go deep for some attack power and knowledge having combinations.

As for beating stuff up, my opinion is that that's best approached from an in-game perspective rather than from a build perspective, because melee feats and other melee options are so ridiculously much worse than more standard druid feats and options. As such, maintaining combat ability in an AMF is tricky, because a lot of your ability to beat people up is dependent on summons, the companion, and if you really want to, wild shape, all backed up with buff spells. The companion does stick around in an AMF though, and you don't have to be too scrawny yourself, so you actually do better in an AMF than most. Of course, you could always just prepare spells that work in an AMF, and use your fists against non-AMF foes. It's admittedly odd that magic would prove a better plan against magic wielders than the mundane, but such is the way of things.

Finally, on quarterstaff stuff, it's not my favorite plan out there, but it can be alright. For that, you'd probably want a non-human base creature, like anthropomorphic bat, so that you can pick up fangshields druid substitution levels (CV, 40), which allow you to get hands in a wild shape. I'd also advise against spikes and brambles, because they're distinctly mediocre, and stick to shillelagh and maybe entangling staff. In any case, if you want something other than dragon then that could probably be done too. You just need a good knowledge of the underlying options to pull it off.

[nedz]

Spirit Shaman ?

Something like
Elf Monk 2 / Spirit Shaman 3 / Seeker of the Misty Isle 9
Elf, because you want to live forever and SotMI
Monk because you can flurry with a Quarter Staff, also Knowledge Religion
You lose 3 caster levels and there's no obvious exit but you have excellent skill boosts.
BAB not too great, but you can use the Bite of Spells and Shillelagh etc.

[Andreaz]

Hey guys, short question;

Does anyone of you know a flavor-reason to play a druid without actually having to worship nature?I don't recall the books ever bothering with that.
So I say just make a druid gish and ignore the reverence part.

[atemu1234]

I don't recall the books ever bothering with that.
So I say just make a druid gish and ignore the reverence part.

Also, isn't Druid BAB already decent?

[Andreaz]

Yes. A pure druid, both 3.5 and PF, makes a good gish. PF druid needs to distribute stats like an actual gish, contrary to 3.5's.

[JDL]

Go pure druid, buy a Monk's Belt and be a kung-fu panda.

[atemu1234]

Go pure druid, buy a Monk's Belt and be a kung-fu panda Bear summoning bears while riding a bear while kicking punching things.

Fixed that for you.

[eggynack]

Also, isn't Druid BAB already decent?
That it is, and the class features can support the plan even on a spontaneous basis. Even if your companion is not combat oriented, which it usually should be, wild shape and summoning are always there to lend a face smashing hand. A druid is therefore basically always a gish, unless you purposefully trade away a bunch of gishy stuff. Sure, you can push all of your resources in other directions, and that is probably going to be a better strategy a good amount of the time, but underneath every druid playing wizard is a pile of natural attacks waiting to break free.

Thus, the real question is how to pull off being devoted to a particular thing, and that really depends on what you want to be devoted to. Big options I can think of offhand are the aforementioned dragon thing, some hybrid of necromancy and aberrations that can swing hard anywhere on the spectrum (I like the combo because each focus uses completely different resources), planar stuff, hyper-goodness, crazy evil (works decently in concert with the necromancy aberration thing, though that may actually do better good), and probably some others. I guess elemental devotion is a thing, but that honestly strikes me as a bit boring even if it's rather well supported. Kinda growing on me as I think about it, actually, though I dislike the fact that you probably end up pulling crappy goliath stuff if you want to go really heavy into it.

[JDL]

I find this highly relevant.

http://s27.postimg.org/do7unqmir/Uldws2yd6_Js_S6_Vgj_Ok_K.gif

[Rebel7284]

Archivists can learn all divine spells, which includes druid spells.

Edit:
and with Divine Power, they have full BAB too!

[Segev]

You want to play a roguish individual who likes nature, but isn't always preaching about it, right?

Play a druid whose RP emphasizes the connection to fae. The theme is minor, but definitely present. Fae are often more trickster spirit and mischievous magic-rogue than "nature-worshipper," even if they have the same respect for nature that, say, modern Americans do technology. It's inherently part of their lives.

So play up the trickster, sneaky elements. Nature is the source of your power, and the way of your life, but you don't need to preach its wonders nor scold people for their treatment of it. Instead, scoff when people complain about it; you're comfortable and even more powerful within its embrace. Look at them as silly, look upon them with condescention when they act in ways that would offend other druids; you're not mad about it because you see them the way a first-world European might see a tribesman from a primitive culture using an iPhone to bash open nuts because he sees it as a particularly regular-shaped rock. Look at those who cower before a boar or a dire wolf the way a first-world Japanese businessman might the same tribesman cowering before a mighty passenger train.

The druid is one of the most versatile classes out there, mechanically; you can easily emphasize the elements of mechanics to support your idea. Just be a fey individual rather than a planeteer. Be the dark and mysterious forest-dweller rather than the evangelist for Nature. Nature's secrets are yours to use, not venerated doctrines to spread.

[Jiruharudo]

Ugh. I typed out a comment for each of you, but then the browser screen went blank, and all was gone..

Still I do need to thank you all for input. I cant believe I forgot about the Spirit Shaman for instance..

Also a fey approach is a great idea..


Again, thanks for all the tips!

[SinsI]

I want to play a Gishish character, and I love the buff spells for quarterstaff Druid gets (Spikes, Shillelagh, Entangling Staff etc) who is in it for the money. Rogueish flavor basically. A raider. Someone who respects nature, but would rather live forever despite it being unnatural.
Be a Warforged Druid. As a robot, your interpretation of Druidic can be whatever you want, and you live forever already.

[eggynack]

Also a fey approach is a great idea..

For fey, the best option may be sidhe scholar (Dragon Magazine #339, 90), whose biggest loss is definitely spontaneous summoning, but which gives some stuff in return that's actually kinda comparable. Beyond that, interesting fey themed spells include fey ring (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) and summon fey (KoK, 188). Of course, there's also spontaneous summoned fey to work with, and you may want to pick up greensinger initiate (ECS, 54) for some extra fey flavor. It's honestly not the deepest druid theming available, but it's workable.