6 Nonabilities?

[Elandris Kajar]

I was wondering if it was possible to make a creature with no ability scores. Strength is easy to get rid of, by being immobile or incorporeal. Dexterity also works if it can't move. Constitution is easy, just make it undead\construct. Intelligence is gone if the creature is mindless. However, Wisdom and Charisma are harder. MMI says that to npt have wis\cha, you must be an object. Would this work for a construct?
Also, what purpose would such a crearure serve?
I am new so I apologize if this should be in homebrew. I was not sure where to put it.

[Temotei]

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?130369-Creatures-with-0-Charisma-or-0-Wisdom) covers the topic pretty well. Basically, the answer is no. Null Wisdom and Charisma are impossibilities for a creature. As you said, they'd be objects.

Though with homebrew, you may be able to create an exception. I'll dig through VT's stuff to check if anything has been done there. Probably a good place to start.

[Rubik]

Technically, the "creature" would be an object.

However, someone placed under a manifestation of Microcosm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/microcosm.htm) effectively has null Wis and Cha, since they can neither observe nor affect the world around them. The same goes for the body of someone affected by Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm) or Magic Jar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm) spell. Their bodies are still considered creatures, but there's either no one home or they're turned inward to the point where they might as well be objects, for all they can affect the world around them.

No, they don't actually have null abilities for Wis and Cha, but there's zero effective difference between them.

[Extra Anchovies]

Are there any ways (through template stacking etc) to get nonabilities in strength, dexterity, constitution, and intelligence? If there's some undead or construct template that can be applied to plants, then Shrieker with that template would fit the bill.


Technically, the "creature" would be an object.

However, someone placed under a manifestation of Microcosm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/microcosm.htm) effectively has null Wis and Cha, since they can neither observe nor affect the world around them.

Eeek, yeah. That power description always makes me feel really uncomfortable.

[Temotei]

Vorpal Tribble made this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?34443-Creature-Dark-have-been-my-dreams), which has a Charisma nonability (though it's considered to have 20 for DC purposes). If you're homebrewing, maybe take a look.

[Crake]

Technically, the "creature" would be an object.

However, someone placed under a manifestation of Microcosm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/microcosm.htm) effectively has null Wis and Cha, since they can neither observe nor affect the world around them. The same goes for the body of someone affected by Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm) or Magic Jar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm) spell. Their bodies are still considered creatures, but there's either no one home or they're turned inward to the point where they might as well be objects, for all they can affect the world around them.

No, they don't actually have null abilities for Wis and Cha, but there's zero effective difference between them.

Arguably microcosm would leave them with null wis, but still have cha, because they have a sense of self, and can identify themselves as existing (cha) but lack all capability to observe the world around them (wis)

That said, microcosm is mind affecting, requiring the creature to have int, else it be mindless, and thus immune. So at best, you can have int and cha, or wis and cha.

[Necroticplague]

There actually is a template (Dream Elemental Creature) that removes the WIS score of a creature. It also is incorporeal (Thusd, STR also as nonability), so if you can find an INT-, DEX- creature of one of aberration, animal, beast, giant, humanoid, monstrous humanoid, magical beast, plant, or vermin, you can get 5 nonabilities by making the creature a Dream Elemental, then making the resultant Dream Elemental a Dustform Creature. A Shrieker is the main creature I can think of that meets these qualifications. So a Dream Elemental Dustform Shrieker would have the highest amount of nonabilities possible.

[Extra Anchovies]

There actually is a template (Dream Elemental Creature) that removes the WIS score of a creature. It also is incorporeal (Thusd, STR also as nonability), so if you can find an INT-, DEX- creature of one of aberration, animal, beast, giant, humanoid, monstrous humanoid, magical beast, plant, or vermin, you can get 5 nonabilities by making the creature a Dream Elemental, then making the resultant Dream Elemental a Dustform Creature. A Shrieker is the main creature I can think of that meets these qualifications. So a Dream Elemental Dustform Shrieker would have the highest amount of nonabilities possible.

So we've gotten it down to everything but Charisma? Excellent.

[Xuldarinar]

Not the most helpful perhaps but... would a vestige in of itself count?

[Inevitability]

So we've gotten it down to everything but Charisma? Excellent.

Everything with - wisdom also has - charisma, so it's got nothing but nonabilities.

[Elandris Kajar]

But would this templated shrieker be a creature or an object that resembles a creature?
What could this shrieker do?

[Extra Anchovies]

But would this templated shrieker be a creature or an object that resembles a creature?
What could this shrieker do?

Well, it's immune to ability damage, we know that at least :smalltongue:

[Taveena]

More importantly, what happens if you get this dusty dream plant vulnerable to ability damage, and to take enough Charisma damage it hits 0?

[Necroticplague]

But would this templated shrieker be a creature or an object that resembles a creature?
What could this shrieker do? Honestly, it would closer represent an object. It can't move, think, live, exert any kind of force, and it's insensate. Really, the only useful things it can do is that it retains the Dream Elemental's ability to do WIS damage to those who touch it, so we've basically just statted up a hallucinogenic cloud you can disperse by stabbing with a ghost touch weapon.


More importantly, what happens if you get this dusty dream plant vulnerable to ability damage, and to take enough Charisma damage it hits 0?

It can finally know peace. As long as it has Charisma, it has the existential torment of having the ability to distinguish itself from other things, but it is unable to perceive or think about these other things, and unable to intereact with them in any way.