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View Full Version : DM Help Is this too much for my party?



Umbranar
2015-05-20, 03:39 AM
Hello playgrounders,

First of all my players should leave now.

Then my question to those who stay:

Currently I am running the Way of the Wicked Adventure Path and the following happened:

-The party managed to ambush Captain Varning and 6 of his rangers in the woods;
-The party has taken control of the Gate House;
-They have Grumblejack with them;
-They rendered the rookery useless;
-They fired the rocket once they controlled the Gate House.

For those not familiar with the Adventure Path, it doesnt really matter because my question is about ECL and if my party can handle it.

The party consists of a Barbarian, a Druid, a Summoner, a Rogue, a Dread Necromancer and what I expect to be a cleric (new player in the campaign) all level 4. We use the d&d 3.5 rules and classes with exception to the Barbarian who is allowed to use rage powers from PF and the Summoner which I backported. The party has an Ogre named Grumblejack with them who wields a large greatsword and has a large breastplate. The gatehouse they are on has 3 points on entry: two hatches to the roof and one iron reinforced door that is accessible only by flight or a 10 ft wide 60 ft long bridge. From the gatehouse you have a 360 view though arrow slits (so +8 ac, +4 reflex and improved evasion). The party has to hold out until the Bugbear horde comes to overrun the castle. Dwarven crossbowmen and archers will prevent that the party can use the gatehouse roof or set foot outside without being peppered.

I figured I will attack the party in waves while they hold up in the gatehouse.

Wave 1: A CR 5 Icegolem with DR 5/adamantine and about 80 hp, vulnerable to fire and his level 7 evocation magic.
The goal of this wave is to destroy the door to allow other soldiers to get in.
Wave 2: 6 level 2 warrior soldiers with a level 1 cleric and a level 6 fighter leading them. The cleric will only use a couple of cure light wounds, when out of spells he will use a mace. I expect the soldiers to die quickly by the attacks of the Ogre, the barbarian and the summoners Eidolon. The captain (fighter) will be the great challenge, he is mainly focused on tripping with a halberd. This first wave will aim to subdue the pc`s.
Wave 3: 6 level 2 warrior soldiers with 2 level 1 clerics and a level 6 fighter leading them. This time their goal is to take out the party and catch atleast one if they can. If not possible they will aim to kill.
Wave 4: A level 6 cleric, a aristocrat2/paladin7 commander 2 level 1 clerics and 2 level 2 warriors. This is the final wave. The commander will give them one last chance to surrender.

According to ECL calculators each wave will be a very difficult fight but the calculators doesnt take their fortified position into account. The party can overlook the bridge and pepper the incoming wave. Still I`m not sure weather or not this is too much and result into a (near) TPK.

Hope you can help me out, feel free to ask more information.

EDIT: as for gear, they have a couple of potions of CLW and a wand of CLW with 20ish charges.
EDIT 2: I have decided to let the wizard fly around, only attempting to fireball the arrowslits when his Golem tries to open the door. When the other waves attack he will be on perimeter defence, checking for other creatures or helping the archers to keep the PC`s inside.

jiriku
2015-05-20, 04:09 AM
The first three waves look difficult but achievable, depending on how many rounds you give them between fights to heal up and refortify their position. The fourth wave poses a significant risk of PC deaths and a definite potential for TPK.

Two additional factors that you glossed over also significantly increase the danger.
(a) There are additional enemy troops outside. You said these troops will "prevent" them from taking certain actions. That's not true -- rather, they will kill or significantly injure anyone who takes those actions. Never underestimate the likelihood that players will do bold and reckless things.
(b) There is nowhere to run. If several PCs are dropped during combat and victory seems unlikely, the survivors cannot flee. They must either surrender and be captured and stripped of their gear (an option some players refuse to even consider) or else fight to the death (TPK).

Umbranar
2015-05-20, 08:13 AM
Thanks for your feedback.
I figure that the party (atleast the spellcasters) will be (nearly) out of resources after the first three waves.
Would a bearded devil send by the PC`s master be an overkill or a good way to balance things?

Drork
2015-05-20, 09:03 AM
A wise commander who wants to take control of a fortified position will always leave an escape route for people to flee. Means you spend less for taking the position. So giving the PCs a way out might change things up and convince them to flee the position.

You may wish to have the Cleric attackers to have some interesting scrolls or potions to grant the party consumables mid siege this would enable you to adjust the spent resources for the following waves. If the PCs are forced to blow their loads early a few scrolls and potions could help bring them back up to where the challenges are complete able.

Something else to note if you use subdue damage they will heal twice as quickly (real damage and sub damage of the same cure spell). It also might prep the PCs for surrendering if they feel they are out classed given they already know their foes are interested in capture rather than killing. It also means if you need to pull your punches as a DM you have set a precedent in the battle that there is a reason behind why they wish to do so. Also I love scaring the crap out of players when they realize they are at risk of capture a fate worse than Death for many PCs.

Lerondiel
2015-05-20, 08:37 PM
Firstly congratulations on having an entire gaming group youre confident arent reading all this! :)

Some more helpful info would include:
- their experience level - are they able/likely to set up bottleneck kill zones to number up?
- how do they play evil - will they do hideous things to their slain/captured enemies to demoralise the enemy?
- how difficult they expect the encounter to be - have previous encounters been far less challenging leaving them prone to taking this too lightly?
- how geographically/financially easy is it for them to get a new wand of CLW - presumably without a spontaneous healer, would they be slower to use a precious asset? (they cant afford to go into the final wave without full hp)
- do they know the reputation/skill of the enemy cleric & paladin leaders?


The up side is that you can prewrite a couple of variants for the final wave....play the Clr6 and Commander11 as lesser level if the PCs arent dominating etc

EDIT: Introducing the bearded devil to join the ogre in helping the party survive is a fair idea if you think the players wont start to feel like sidekicks.