[3.5] Ursoi melee character (Dragonlance)

[schreier]

I love dragonlance, and am currently playing an Irda Domain Wizard ... I wanted to go to the other side (pure melee), and have always loved bears - so the natural choice is the Ursoi from Races of Ansalon (pg 217-221).

I'm starting in a campaign at ECL 5, so my first 5 levels and next are already fixed (you need to take Ursoi class through lvl 7), but I'm trying to decide what to do after that.

They have massive str and con, good natural armor, natural attacks (claw and bite), large size, as well as other assorted bonuses (resist cold, scent, etc...)

Trying to figure out a direction. They have ranger as a favored class, but it seems to call more for a barbarian build? Fist of the Forest, Wild Shape ranger/Master of many forms (to overcome being a giant bear that can't talk), Bear Warrior, and Totem Barbarian are some of the things I've been considering, but I'm not sure what takes the most advantage of the race's abilities. Wildshape replaces the strength and con, so that removes a major benefit of the race ...

Any help is much appreciated!

Thanks
schreier

[Xaotiq1]

I'm going to make 2 suggestions. One; Monk then Psychic Warrior with the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona. Second; Swordsage from ToB. They get great skill points, interesting class features, and there's an unarmed adaptation if your DM can, ahem, bear it.

Just re-read the entry for Ursoi; TOTEMIST from Magic of Incarnum. Yeah, you lose a few meldshaper levels; but those natural attacks though! Splash a couple levels of Barbarian and Totem Rager and proceed to remove the face from 87% of your problems.

[schreier]

Just re-read the entry for Ursoi; TOTEMIST from Magic of Incarnum. Yeah, you lose a few meldshaper levels; but those natural attacks though! Splash a couple levels of Barbarian and Totem Rager and proceed to remove the face from 87% of your problems.

Wow ... never read Magic of Incarnum before ... the first few paragraphs fit perfectly ... I'll have to play with it ... when you say Totem Rager - is that a regular Totem barb, or something else?

[Xaotiq1]

Totem Rager is a Totemist/Barbarian prestige class, yes.

[schreier]

Totem Rager is a Totemist/Barbarian prestige class, yes.

So Ursoi 7 / Totemist 1 / Barbarian 1 / Totem Rager X sounds like the path! What soulmelds do you think would work best?

For the Barbarian - do you recommend lion spirit or the Snow Tiger Berserker" feat (Unapproachable East - at the cost of Knowledge (Local - Rashamen))? I always like moving more quickly, but not sure it's worth the 2 knowledge points and feat

Also - quick question ... the Ursoi is written up as 5 racial HD + 2LA, or you can gain 7 levels as an Ursoi ... starting at ECL 8 (the first option) would allow LA buyoff if the DM has it ... would the 2nd option (playing through level 7) as well? I'm guessing the easy answer is "up to the DM" but I was curious if there was a general consensus?

[Xaotiq1]

Frost Helm

Manticore Belt

Rageclaws

Shadow Mantle or Lammasu Mantle

Landshark Boots

Pounce is nice; but you can use Sphinx Claws to get pounce. Do try the Whirling Frenzy and, if allowed, the wolf totem variant both from Unearthed Arcana. Then, get the "Knockdown" feat from the SRD and try to squeeze Combat Reflexes in there for a fun combo.

LA Buy off isn't bad for +1 or +2; but it is DM's call.

[schreier]

How would a totemist like this compare to a barb 2 (wolf for trip, lion for pounce) / thayan gladiator x? Sucks the gladiator has to be evil, but I'm guessing he could rehabilitate after escaping (war makes you do crazy stuff ... once free of thay .. who knows) ... I'm also guessing that the prc requires you to stay under a wizard (you can't learn it on your own - need a wizard to enchant your natural weapons for example)

[Xaotiq1]

Actually, the PrC says nothing about being under a wizard's control. Heck, I'd say talk to your DM about re-fluffing the alignment and make it more of a "bring out your inner beast through meditation/enlightenment" kind of class.

On how it looks; I'll leave this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ogdvk8padbhaq0ips94919lar3&topic=583) here.

[schreier]

Incarnum is new to me, so still wrapping my brain around it ...

So I put together a lvl 20 regular melee for now - wanted to get your thoughts, and see how it would compare to potential totemist builds

Assuming that I could buy off the LA +2 (for any build), the first 5 levels will be monstrous humanoid ...

Then: 2 Levels in Totem Barbarian (Wolf), 10 levels in Thayan Gladiator, and capping it off with 3 levels in Fist of the Forest

Base stats are 36 point buy:
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 8
After Racial
Str 28 Dex 16 Con 20 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 4
Adding 5 Str for levels, we're at 33 Str
With items: str 39 dex 22 con 26 int 10 wis 14 cha 4

Use Alternate Class Feature in Barb for City Brawler (Improved Unarmed Strike, TWF unarmed instead of martial weapons, shield, medium armor)

Class Feature Variant - go with the whirling frenzy for the extra attack I guess?

Take 2 flaws - Bestial Instinct (-2 to hit with anything other than unarmed/natural (dragon 324)), Shaky (-2 to hit with ranged)

Feats (including free from flaws and class feats):
Lvl 1 - Multiattack, Power Attack, Toughness
Lvl 4 - Weapon Focus (Natural Weapons)
Lvl 6 - Simple Weapons, Light Armor, Improved Unarmed Strike, TWF (Unarmed), Snow Tiger Berserker
Lvl 7 - Improved Trip
Lvl 8 - Improved Natural Weapons (Claws)
Lvl 9 - Improved Critical (Claws)
Lvl 12 - Beast Strike
Lvl 15 - Combat Reflexes
Lvl 18 - Snap Kick

The enchantments he'd take from Thayan Gladiator would be Flaming and wounding I guess ... flaming because none are great and fire seems useful at times outside of combat, and wounding for con damage with 11 attacks per turn

For Snow Tiger, had to take 2 levels of knowledge Rashamen, but seems worth it. I wanted to keep the fast move for long charges - especially with air walk

Not sure about the last couple (Combat reflexes, snap kick) but they seemed solid ... the rest are either great (as far as I can tell) or prereqs

Items - used WBL, including MIC rules to add attributes to items (233-234)

760,000 to spend
Necklace of Natural Weapons (3 weapons - Claws, 217,8000 (Bite, Unarmed Strike) (+1 Enchantment, Vampiric, Collission, Enfeebling)
600 Pearl of Speech (Common)
128000 (Ghost Shroud from Libris Mortis grants +4 deflection and ghost strike on weapons, upgrade to +5 deflect, +5 natural armor and +5 resistance to saves)
500 Crystal of Adaption (Least) - on ghost shroud
2500 Ring of Sustenance
110000 Ring of Mental Fortitude
130000 Bracers of the Blinding Strike (MoF - 6 AC, Improved Initiative, Speed on a weapon for an extra attack .. upgrade AC to 8)
84000 Belt of Battle (add +6 str and +6 Con)
86000 Cloudwalker Anklets (add +6 dex)

The main item is obviously the necklace of natural weapons ... The Pearl is cheap, but lets him talk (normally Ursoi can just growl and grunt like Chewbacca)
The Ghost Shroud has a ton of additions per MIC, giving him AC +10 (deflection and natural), +5 save, and ghost strike .... the Crystal of Adaptation gives him endure heat and cold, which makes the fist of forest requirement to sleep outside much more palatable ... the ring of sustenance helps there too - less sleep required, and never worrying about hunting
The ring seems important to stop him from being taken over with a weaker will save - don't want a giant bear turn on the party
The Bracers are expensive, but more initiative is good ... an extra attack ... and 8 armor makes a great item
The belt is similarly incredibly ... adding 6 str and 6 con is perfect for the build, 2 more initiative ... and a free extra action or 3 from the battle belt will really help
Last item, cloudwalker anklets give airwalk ... phoenix cloak costs the same, but 50' perfect flying, vs 50 airwalk ... airwalk gives me charge up to 200 I believe ... also seemed cool for a "monk" type flying bear

Since every level is full BAB, he'd have the 20 BAB, giving him 4 iterative attacks ... from what I can tell - he'd have:

11 attacks per round:
4 from BAB
1 from TWF
1 from Bracer (speed)
1 from Snap Kick
2 from Claws
1 from Claw (thayan bonus)
1 bite

The first 7 are unarmed and would do:
2d8 base (large size fist of the forest)
14 (Strength)
5 (collision)
1 (+1 enchantment from necklace)
1d6 vs living (vampiric)
1d6+2 Str Damage on Crit hit (enfeebling)
1d8 (claw damage added by Beast Strike)
1 (+1 enchantment from necklace for claw?)
5 (collision again for claw?)
1d6 vs living (vampiric) for claw?)
1d6 (flaming claw?)
1d6 vs living (vampiric for claw?)
1d6+2 Str Damage on Crit hit (enfeebling for claw?)
1 Con Damage

So 3d8 + 26 + 1d6 fire + 2d6 vs living + 2d6 Fire + 1 Con +(2d6+4 Strength damage on Critical), healing 2d6 from the vampiric if living

Then the claw attacks would be 1d8+13+1d6 vs living+1d6 Fire + (1d6+2 Strength damage on Critical), healing 1d6 from vampiric if living
The bite would be 1d8 + 13 + 1d6 vs living + 1 con + (1d6+2 Strength damage on Critical), healing 1d6 from vampiric if living

Attack bonuses would be:
32/27/22/17/32/32/25/25/25/25/25
(BAB starting at 20, Str 14 (7 for secondary), 1 for weapon focus, -2 for secondary attack on the natural, -2 for TWF on the unarmed, -2 for snap on all, +1 for enchantment)

Could add more damage through power attack, but that seems overkill?

Average damage on the 1st 7 attacks would be 57 per, healing 7 ... 21, healing 3.5 on the claw, and 7, healing 3.5 on the bite ... all before power attack

With thayan, he can hit silver, magic, adamantium with the claws (so I guess the unarmed 2d8 wouldn't hit, but the claws would?)

Every hit would do 1 con

With 26 con (14 + 6 racial + 6 item) and 22 dex (14+2 racial + 6 item) he'd have

Hp = 5d8 + 12d12 + 3d10 + 160 = 277 with average rolls

Ac = 10 + 7 natural + 6 dex + 8 con + 5 deflect + 8 armor + 5 Natural enhance = 49

Low skills obviously ... but that's not his job

Does that seem correct? Would the totemist be better?

With this build, I envision an Ursoi somehow traveling to Faerun (some kind of portal, world serpent inn, a spell, whatever) ... ends up in the north where he befriends and joins with the wolf tribe ... gets captured by Thayan mage. .. tortured until he accepts his fate as a gladiator ... escapes and joins with the guardians of the green and learns their ways.

His appearance - a massive 10' humanoid polar bear with black tiger-like stripes moving from his chest up along the sides of his face .. dressed only in a ghostly and partially translucent cloth wrapping around his torso with a blue crystal over his chest ... dark pewter bracers .... a leather belt with a platinum buckle and 3 black pearls ... a pair of anklets made from crystal quartz with silver clasps ... his necklace under the shroud, and a pair of platinum rings visible on his massive fingers.

The more I thought about the fist of the forest not sleeping inside restriction, the more I realized that it didn't matter. There aren't many places that will have beds for a 10' bear thing. Plus, people wouldn't be too happy to have a giant bear thing in their midst in town. I looked for a disguise method - hat of disguise only allows up to a 1' difference ... so a 9' tall thing? What would that be ... ogre maybe? Not any better. There is an alter self armor in vile darkness, but it's made from the skin of humanoids, and alter self would just allow other monstrous humanoids - so not much better - maybe a centaur? but as he is restricted to no armor, it didn't matter anyways