Barbarian Who Thinks He is a Wizard

[Draco_Lord]

So, recently I have found myself about to start a high level campaign, starting at level 20, and going up to 30. And have decided to play my favourite class, just cause it does things I like, a barbarian. But, after reading a thread linked below, I want to follow his example and make a Barbarian who thinks he is a wizard.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?195049-Help-Me-Be-Annoying-with-a-Barbarian-Wizard

Unlike the one above, I kind of what it to be a secret, or at least not obvious right away. My DM knows about it, so it won't be an issue keeping it from him. But for everyone else, I want to try and have them think he is a wizard for as long as possible.

So I have prepared something for him, but would like some commentary, suggestions, things like that on what I could improve, and how to pull this off.

Race: Orc
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Stats at Start: Rolled 18, 16, 17, 18, 10, 13 (Got super lucky)
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 17
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 13

Stats from Levels
4th: Int
8th: Con
12th: Int
16th: Str
20: Str

Final Stats
Str: 24
Dex: 16
Con: 19
Int: 18
Wis: 8
Cha: 11

I like his Int being high and wisdom being low, because it means he is smart enough to know about magic, have some kind of understanding because of int, (Plus all the skills), but still not wise enough to know how to use it, or understand that he can't. It is a bit of a personal roleplaying thing, cause I'm making him thick, more fun playing a dumb barbarian after all.

All his levels are Barbarian at first. I just like that. For the archtype I'm thinking Superstitious. But rather then being a natural fear or distrust of all magic. It is based around his own belief that his magic is just better, and he doesn't need some weak magic messing up his mojo. I also find it funny if he can ignore magic spells, claiming he is just too magical to be stopped.

Rage Powers:
Reckless Abandon
Superstitious Rage Power
Eater of Magic
Strength Surge
Body Bludgeon
Spell Sunder
Hurling, Lesser
Hurling
Hurling, Greater
Witch Hunter

Reckless because it is awesome. Superstitious because it leads into Spell Sunder, which I see as very important for any pseudo wizard. Eater of Magic for reasons much like the archtype, because I love the idea of him counter magic by just consuming it. Body Bludgeon as a form of 'summon' or 'charm' ability, forcing the enemies to fight eachother. Hurling for the same reason as Body Bludgeon. And witch hunter so he can defeat those other spell casters who claim to be better then him.

Feats: In no real order
Catch Off-Guard
Improved Grapple
Improved Initiative
Improved Sunder
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improvised Weapon Mastery
Intimidating Prowess
Power Attack
Raging Vitality
1 Extra: Debating on the Nature of it.

With the ability to grab and throw people, Improvised Weapon Mastery seems fun. Power Attack and Raging Vitality for obvious reasons. The Improves so I can do things in combat. And Intimidating Prowess because why not.

Skill Ranks Modifiers not Included
Acrobatics:20
Appraise;3
Climb:10
Craft (armor): 10
Craft (weapons): 10
Escape Artist: 9
Handle Animal: 20
Intimidate: 20
Knowledge (nature): 1
Knowledge (planes): 6
Perception: 10
Perform (act): 0
Ride: 1
Survival: 20
Swim: 20
Use Magic Device: 20


Most of these are either because I like the skill, think it could be useful, or because it might be funny. Handle Animal is the best example of the last one, using it to gain a 'familiar' in the form of a cat.

Items and Familiar:
Familiar, scared Cat, probably because an orc is claiming it as his own.

Ring: Regenteration
Ring: Evasion
Hands: Skilled Maneuver Grapple
Headband: Havoc
Eyes: Deathwatch Eyes
Neck Natural Armor +5
Shoulders: Resistance +5
Body: Robes of Titan (Special)
Belt; Mighty Hurling, Greater
Feet: Boots of Speed

Weapon: Furious Greatsword +5 (The sheath looks a lot like a staff)
Armor: Breastplate (Agile) +4

Haven't quiet gotten this all approved, but two of them I have. We haven't been given a budget yet, so I just picked things I liked. The Robes of Titan are a DM Approved Custom Item, it basically is robes with the Titan Armor enchantment on it. The Belt of Hurling is because he is not allowing items of stat improvement right away, at least not multiple stats, so I got that for some throwing fun.

While I haven't figured out the details, exactly, the way we are leveling past 30 involves multiclassing. And for it I was thinking Fighter. Fighter offers a lot in the way of feats, which not only give me more things to make him better, but also can give him extra rage powers. I am also hesitant in making him actually become a spell caster, as it kind of defeats the point.

But would love suggestions on other classes that might work well for him, prestige or otherwise. They just must come from the main books. Core, APG, ACG, UM, and UC.

So then, what do you all think? Is this viable? Any abilities that would help me keep my party in the dark that I missed? The game is unlikely to be optimized, so you don't need to worry about making me the best of the best.

[Geddy2112]

Looks fairly solid mechanically.

As for roleplaying this-you could always say that you WERE a wizard, but due to a tragic accident you can no longer read or cast spells.

And this makes you mad...very mad.

[Ilorin Lorati]

http://i.imgur.com/t6QfCun.jpg

There's actually a feat that gives you an animal companion from a list - that includes a cat: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally

It's 3 feats for full power, but may be worth it if you want your 'familiar' to be effective.

[Draco_Lord]

@Geddy2112

I think he works a little better as someone who doesn't actually understand magic properly. He just gets the basics. Like it can move heavy things, so he lifts them. Or it makes monsters appear, so he throws them.

@Ilorin Lorati

He is definitely the best kind of Wizard, the Muscle Wizard.
But I don't actually need his familiar to be effective, so much as just there, and screaming and anyone near him.
That, and I think that feat is not from the 'core' books, which is to say; Core, APG, ACG, UM, and UC.

[upho]

Love it. Seems mechanically fine.

Tip: For extra immersion, put together an actual physical "spellbook" and bring it to your game, and IC study it and add to it every morning, and consult it when seeing a new kind of monster etc. Hopefully someone in your party manages to more or less intentionally catch a glimpse of its contents. The contents of course being exactly what grossed out grarrrg in the inspiration thread (preferably pictured doing "gross" stuff):

Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=10772837&postcount=27)
Quote Originally Posted by Gnome Alone
he has a spellbook, ... It consists of.... Plus naked ladies and monsters and stuff.
Why would you want naked monster pictures in your spellbook?
Gross.:smallbiggrin:

[Draco_Lord]

That is a fantastic idea. I was going to include the book in game, but out of game too, that is perfect! Going to doodle in all the monsters we fight, and made 'notes' that mostly involve drawings and stick figures.

Now I just have to wonder if they will question that I am using crayon.

[upho]

Cause crayons are cheaper, allows you to scribble magic runes and circles on rocks and stuff, comes in more colors than ink, and aren't as easily ruined as feather pens!

Just had an idea regarding the spellbook and monster knowledge checks: dip 2 levels into monk MoMS for "free" IUS plus Kirin Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-style-combat-style) and Kirin Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-style-combat-style). Mechanically, this would allow you to get a lot more out of your high Int and ranks in Knowledge skills, and flavor-wise it makes your "wizardry" all the more believable. Add Kirin path (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-path-combat) if you want a "contingency-ed dimension door"...

[Draco_Lord]

That is true. Though for the table I might just my pencil crayons, rather then the wax kind. Less stares for being weird that way.

And while that style seems sweet, I can't. Monks have to be lawful, and I am not lawful at all. Well... I am lawful for an orc, which involves punching things until they do what I want.

That I don't really need to dip, exactly. Level 30 campaign, so I would just take two levels of monk as we level up. Right now going with Fighter, all the extra feats seem useful, as worse comes to worse, I turn them into rage powers.

[Hellborn_Blight]

I've seen a lower level version of this concept put to hilarious use, but the character was a gnome, and did legitimately think he was a wizard. He would just throw out timely uses of his spell like abilities, mostly ghost sound, and he had the party convinced he was just like a crappy, insane gish. He took magic in the blood at first level, and then several of those feats from Complete Arcane (like Soul of the North and Insightful) to really sell the effect.

[MukkTB]

I just don't see a party buying the wizard thing at level 20 for very long. Somebody is going to want a high level spell like teleport or wish. Then its over.

I think you may actually benefit from saving this idea until you get a more opportune environment. Around level 5 might be good. At early mid to low levels you could probably impersonate a gish of some sort.

[Barstro]

Your knowledge of the game was hard to understand at first. But then I realized that you are not the same person as a particular Sorcerer. Anyway...

With such a high level game, have you fully planned out how to convince people that there is a reason you are nerfing yourself so much by doing a bunch of fighty things, instead of being all casty.
(Both of those are perfectly fine words.)

I see this quickly turning into a gag that goes the other way; the party knows you are a fraud and makes you the butt of their jokes. Is your build solid enough to be useful once your gag is over?

[With a box]

not a muscle wizard, but how about bard?
He remembers every oral story of his tribe, and that include a lot of knowledges and some arcane spells.

P.S there is a pathfinder bard architype for this:smallconfused:

Savage Skald

Far from civilization, furious tribes have their own war-singers, work-chanters, and lore-keepers, savaging enemies with song and sword alike.

[Draco_Lord]

The advantage of some of those rage abilities is that they can do something like magic. The two best examples would be Spell Sunder and Hurling, Spell Sunder because it is basically dispel magic. And Hurling because with Great I can increase the size category and that is basically magic. I also plan on getting Elemental Rage, which adds to the magic he can do. And with all the stat boosting spells, like transformation, I can just claim my rage is a version of that.

The lack of some of the spells most wizards get for utility is an interesting one, but not as big of an issue, my party doesn't worry so much about stuff like that for one. They are happy to just find a normal way to travel, rather then worry as much about teleporting about. And I also plan on doing two things, one claiming his school of magic is either evocation, or some kind of destruction, and that he choose conjuration as his opposite, and one other of course. So teleport is out, at least he'll say that. I also am going to find a bunch of scrolls I think could be useful, and carry them around. With his use magic device, he'll be able to cast them without too much issue. Besides, I think half the fun is coming up with interesting ways to cast the spell. Like dimension door, and just throwing it as hard as he can.

As for the party finding out. I expect them too at some point, probably quickly, but I want to see how long I can have it go before they do. After that, I think he is still built fairly solid, and should be able to hold his own. With power attack he can really do some damage, about 44 added to his roll I think. That with reckless makes him very strong, and if I go with fighter he'll only get stronger. Hurling seems great, especially with Strength Surge, or instant grapple, and if they have Freedom of Movement, he'll just sunder it instead.

Also Skald would be the option if I wanted to play a class with actual magic, this is different, and is meant to not have any magic. Though... Maybe that should be the class I progress into, might be fun.

[Hiro Quester]

This is a brilliant concept. Kudos.

Do you want him to be able to make knowledge checks? Spellcraft checks? (even badly?)

Having just one rank in all the knowledges makes him able to make those knowledge checks, and occasionally pull out a useful bit of accurate knowledge. Bluff that he knows even when he doesn't. But at least he can make the rolls now.

Also Counterspell. Ready an action to "counterspell". When he sees the mage begin to cast, fast move over there and hit him with your staff sword, forcing a concentration check of 10+damage+spell level. Shout "COUNTERSPELL" while he does so.

With one cross-class rank in spellcraft he can make spell craft checks too, and believe he is successful. Bluff that he knows what spell it was the mage was trying to cast even when he fails. With one rank he can succeed about 25% of the time on a DC 15 check, too. (Just enough to convince himself that he can do this for real.)

Also if you did want a level or two of monk, the alignment doesn't have to mess with your character. A monk who is no longer lawful can't take more monk levels, but retains all monk abilities.

So you could have begun as a monk, believing that this training was a path to mystical insight, then got mad at your sensei and raged unlawfully outta there into barbarian.

Edit:

Why all those ranks in swim? With light armor and high strength, you swim check will be fine.

And why no ranks in bluff? It's cross class, but it seems that bluffing others (and himself) is an essential part of the concept. Trading 20 swim for 10 bluff seems a reasonable investment for this character.

[Draco_Lord]

Hiro Quester I love your ideas for this. Counterspelling sounds fantastic! And honestly fits him so well, charging half way across the field just to smack someone, and hopefully stop their ability to cast the spell.

And you are right. Having one rank in Spellcraft would be perfect, lets me mechanically make the check, and more importantly, unlikely to succeed, which is perfect. I think I will be following your advice, and giving him a rank in every knowledge, so he has constant insight into everything, even if he might be wrong about most of it.

Mmm, that is true. Maybe I'll rework his backstory a little bit, see if it can work for him.

[upho]

Hiro Quester I love your ideas for this. Counterspelling sounds fantastic! And honestly fits him so well, charging half way across the field just to smack someone, and hopefully stop their ability to cast the spell.

And you are right. Having one rank in Spellcraft would be perfect, lets me mechanically make the check, and more importantly, unlikely to succeed, which is perfect. I think I will be following your advice, and giving him a rank in every knowledge, so he has constant insight into everything, even if he might be wrong about most of it.This seems like very good idea. Speaking of, I missed reading your skills list earlier, and would suggest the following:

Acrobatics: 6 (flavor, you should have a flight item and avoiding AoOs is not going to work well as CR 20+ melee foes typically have a CMD above 50...)
Appraise: 1
Climb: 1 (fly instead)
Craft (armor): 10 -OR- 0 (I think either armor or weapons will be enough for flavor purposes, as you won't be doing much useful with this)
Craft (weapons): 10 -OR- 0
Escape Artist: 0 (use "muscle magic" (strength/grapple) instead)
Handle Animal: 15
Intimidate: 15 (while raging, you'll demoralize a CR 20 balor on a roll of 5...)
Knowledge (arcana): 20 (if going Kirin, DC = 15+CR; add say a 4650 gp Knowledge Pendant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/pendant-knowledge) for +5)
Knowledge (planes): 20 (see above)
Knowledge (all other 8): 1
Perception: 20 (typically the most important skill in the game)
Perform (act): 1
Ride: 1
Survival: 20
Swim: 1
Use Magic Device: 20

If you're not going Kirin Style, you can of course dump Know (arcana and planes) to 1 rank, giving you 38 additional points to play with. And if you do go Kirin, I also think you should grab an Int+ headband.


Mmm, that is true. Maybe I'll rework his backstory a little bit, see if it can work for him.Or you could simply grab the Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/martial-artist) monk archetype so you don't have to bother with alignment issues. Though in every other regard I can think of, MoMS (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles) would be a LOT better for you, especially since there are a few mechanically good as well as flavor-fitting "magic" styles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/style-feats) besides Kirin Style.

On the issue of how much usefulness you should sacrifice for the "pretend to be a wizard"-flavor: I think you'd be able to pull nearly all of this off without having to sacrifice much at all, but there might be a big problem in that the other players are creating PCs believing you'll be playing an actual wizard. Dunno how to solve this really, and perhaps it won't be a big thing in this campaign since your DM is aware of your concept. Anyhow, as the build currently is, there might be a few other concerns as well, much depending on the level of optimization and classes of the other party members. I'm thinking primarily of the typical flaws martial classes have in comparisons to casters, especially in higher levels (poor action economy, lack of versatility, dependence on magic items etc). A barbarian or monk may actually do something about the action economy issue, even in melee, by getting pounce (through beast totem or Pummeling Charge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pummeling-charge-combat)). So if you're taking a MoMS dip and don't want to go the typical beast totem route, it might be worth looking into fighting with unarmed strikes and/or natural weapons. You'd get to actually "cast fist" as a major bonus... :smalltongue:

Other tips: get Cornugon Smash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat), and add courageous (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/courageous) and cruel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/cruel) to your furious greatsword. You're now a debuff specialist in addition to a blaster wizard! :smallsmile:

[Ettina]

I'd just like to say that I love this idea.

I thought up a half-orc who was raised by a wizard and wants to be a wizard despite having the wrong stats for it. (Low Int & high Strength.) I was planning on having him actually be a wizard - one who can only cast cantrips because his casting stat is so low - but this works so much better.

[Draco_Lord]

Thanks for the help! Sorry for the delay in replying, been busy, but tried out Krog, and he was great! The skills are definitely better this way upho. Thank you for that! I am playing Krog differently then I thought I would, most going with a he is sure he is a wizard, a bit insane, and refuses to believe anything else, even as the rest of the party comes to understand he is not magical. Took them most of the session too, that was great.

In the end I went with full Barbarian for his build, and might level into MoMS as we go, I prefer the barbarian flavor and rage powers. And punching off spells is just too much fun.

[skypse]

You should consider the Mammoth Rider archetype which will bring your "familiar" to huge size. You can claim that you used magic to make your familiar stronger and more competent in battle!

[Draco_Lord]

That is an awesome prestige class, but sadly I can't take it for two reasons. I don't meet the requirements for it. And as a group we just use the books we have access to in hard copy, which doesn't include Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige.