[3.5] Help with a PsyWarrior Charger

[lonewulf]

Im putting together a 'charger' build on a Psychic Warrior and i need some advice. Here are my restrictions...

Nothing from Forgotten Realms books are allowed (no valorous or battle jump).
No homebrew and no Dragon Mag (Compendium is allowed).
No Pathfinder.
no flaws.
28-point buy.
Starting level 1 (im obviously planning ahead).
No penalty for multiclass.
There will be 4 other players in party with various roles.

My thoughts so far are as follows:
Elan race (i love the resilience power)

EDITEDvvvv (thought PsyWar got 6 BAB at level 9 but its 8 so multiclass is less relevant)

PsyWar 1 : Enhanced Elan Resilience, Power Attack
PsyWar 2: Freedom Mantle
PsyWar 3: Exotic Weapon (Spiked Chain)
PsyWar 4:
PsyWar 5: Improved Bullrush
PsyWar 6: Leap Attack
PsyWar 7:
PsyWar 8: Shock Trooper

My main question is about Freedom Mantle...ive seen lots of builds use it for PsyWar Chargers but is it really worth losing that level 2 feat? Any thoughts or advice about Freedom Mantle or the build in general would be greatly appreciated!

[ComaVision]

Personally, I'd rather trade EWP for Improved Bullrush and take 2 levels of barb rather than fighter so you can get Improved Trip for free. Grab Knockdown later and when you don't kill something outright then at least you're tripping it.

[Zaq]

What is PsyWar really giving you in this build? You're spending a feat on a spiked chain (so you're not using their cool natural weapons), and you're losing a lot of manifester levels (meaning you'll have very low PP and won't have much ability to augment stuff). I mean, a level 4 PsyWar has a mere 5 PP before bonuses. You'll get 2 PP for being an elan, and then you'll get bonuses from WIS, but not that much . . . 14 WIS would give you 4 PP, for a total of 11, or 16 WIS would give you 6, for a total of 13. That is not a lot of PP to last the entire day. You'll also be limited to only level 1 and level 2 powers, and you'll only know a single level 2 power. That's not a lot of psionic mojo.

I mean, I understand the bind you're in. PsyWars don't get a lot of PP, which means that it's tempting to dip out for always-on abilities that don't rely on PP, like you're doing with Pounce. The problem is, the more you dip out, the lower your PP is, so your remaining PsyWar levels get less and less valuable, especially since your low ML limits your ability to augment the powers you do have. This is one reason why it's frustrating to play a PsyWar at low levels.

I don't know how fast your group levels up, but I'd be tempted to tell you not to lose more ML than you have to. One level for Pounce is okay (although Psionic Lion's Charge can give you the same ability, but I recognize that it does cost PP), but three seems excessive. A PsyWar with a spiked chain can be hilariously good at lockdown, what with Expansion giving you insane reach and great bonuses on tripping, and I think you might be playing to your strengths more by focusing on that sort of thing rather than on simple charging. You can charge without being psionic, after all, and your psionic powers aren't going to be worth much if you don't keep up your ML.

Of course, since you're starting play at level 1, maybe you should just take it as it comes. I'm not saying you shouldn't plan ahead (that's a recipe for disaster), but I'm saying you should be flexible in your plans. Get some actual gameplay under your belt and see if the character really needs Shock Trooper ASAP, or if you would be better off with more PP, or whatever. You might be surprised.

[DrMartin]

Psychic warriors get bonus feats from the list of bonus feats available to fighter in the PHB. Shock trooper is a valid pick for a fighter bonus feat. I think that most DM out there would allow you to use your 8th level psywar bonus feat to pick up shock trooper even if not 10000% RAW. This would give you shock trooper one level later that the build you posted, but with a lot more delicious psionics at your disposal.

[Karl Aegis]

You've lost too many manifester levels and feats to make psychic warrior worth it. At this point you're better off just going Warmind.

[lonewulf]

Thanks for the replies. Main post has been updated.

[ExLibrisMortis]

This (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3541096) is a good build for extending stamina on a psychic warrior, and generally having lots of power.

To turn it into more of a charger, you could switch some feats around, taking Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper over IUS and Improved Grapple, maybe. You can also replace Combat Reflexes with serpent armour, that frees up a feat slot. If your DM allows you to use psionic lion's charge with flurry of blows, monastic training (psychic warrior) + tashalatora (an Eberron book, Secrets of Sarlona) is fun.

You can get 16 base attack by going into Slayer or Sanctified Mind (either costs one feat to enter).

[Darrin]

My main question is about Freedom Mantle...ive seen lots of builds use it for PsyWar Chargers but is it really worth losing that level 2 feat? Any thoughts or advice about Freedom Mantle or the build in general would be greatly appreciated!

Freedom Mantle is necessary because it gives you early access (generally via the Mantled Warrior ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)) to two methods of swift-action movement: dimension hop and hustle. Once you've already pounced on your target, if it's still standing, then either of these powers let you back up 10' as a swift action to set up another charge on the same round.

If you're worried about losing a feat, I'd reconsider taking EWP. You're probably better off charging with a greatsword or guisarme. Another possibility would be taking the Duom from Dragon Compendium, which you said was allowed. In that book, the Duom is a *martial* reach weapon that you can use to attack adjacent targets. If you read the text carefully, you may notice that you only get a -2 penalty when you attack an *additional* adjacent target (as in, two different opponents). If you attack the same opponent with all your attacks, no penalty. (Unfortunately, the Duom isn't considered a tripping weapon, even though it has two backward-pointing hooks that would be perfect for that sort of thing.)

And yes, Shock Trooper is a Fighter Bonus feat, and taking it via a Psychic Warrior bonus feat is 100% rules legal. I always found it kinda odd that so few of the tactical feats were NOT Fighter Bonus feats... how does that make any sense from a design standpoint?

Roof-Jumper (Cityscape) is similar to Battle Jump, but not setting-specific. However, even with excessive dipping the prereqs are annoying. You can get around the prereqs a bit with a Barbarian dip + Roof-Dweller ACF, but you can't combine it with Pounce.

How many non-manifester levels are you comfortable with? Most of my charge/pounce builds dip PsyWar 2 or PsyWar 4, but the bulk of the levels wind up as Barbarian, Ranger, Fighter, and/or Warblade.

[DrMartin]

if you want a charger, i'd drop the spiked chain - if on the other hand you want to keep the spiked chain, I'd invest more into it, with things like combat reflexes and imp. trip. (note that this implies 13+ for both int and dex, and that does not mesh very well with a front-liner in a 28pt buy).

I'm not a fan of the resilience ability - on paper it does sounds really nice, but it's expensive both in terms of PP and in terms of actions (as a psywar you have a lot of uses for your swifts! and oh so few power points.). And even if you spend a feat on it it's still not as effective as Vigor for hit points gained. That said, the other elan abilities (sustainance and resistance) are really good, and if you want to invest on the various claws and bite powers, you eventually qualify for rapidstrike.

Personally I'd drop both the Improved resilience and the EWP for something else - maybe earth sense and earth power, or speed of thought and psionic charge/up the walls?

The freedom mantle is nice to access powers like dimension hop and fly, I'd keep it. Another nice mantle to consider for added flexibility is magic (Use Magic Device as a class skill opens tons of options, plus access to Dispel Psionics, a power that works really well on a psychic warrior). Natural world is also usually listed but you only really need one power from it (metamorphosis), and you can grab it with Expanded knowledge, even if a few levels later.

[lonewulf]

If you're worried about losing a feat, I'd reconsider taking EWP. You're probably better off charging with a greatsword or guisarme. Another possibility would be taking the Duom from Dragon Compendium, which you said was allowed. In that book, the Duom is a *martial* reach weapon that you can use to attack adjacent targets. If you read the text carefully, you may notice that you only get a -2 penalty when you attack an *additional* adjacent target (as in, two different opponents). If you attack the same opponent with all your attacks, no penalty. (Unfortunately, the Duom isn't considered a tripping weapon, even though it has two backward-pointing hooks that would be perfect for that sort of thing.)

How many non-manifester levels are you comfortable with? Most of my charge/pounce builds dip PsyWar 2 or PsyWar 4, but the bulk of the levels wind up as Barbarian, Ranger, Fighter, and/or Warblade.

Thanks for posting. I didnt know about the Duom and that makes EWP irrelevant which frees up a feat slot...thanks for mentioning it.

As for losing manifester levels id rather lose as few as possible (1 or none is ideal).

[Ellowryn]

Honestly, just going 20 psywarrior is already good enough for a good charger. Its not the *Best* one, but it is good, which seems to be what you are going for.

I'm going to second the Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) for a PrC as it gives you 9/10 progression, full BaB, and eventually gets a near permanent Mind Blank (active as long as you are focused, but its selective!).

Also, in order to free up some of your point buy points you might want to switch your race to half-orcs (+2 str, -2 int and cha), yes you lose some of the cool abilities that elans have but psywarriors are MAD so any chance you get to boost your important stats is worth it.