Need help creating 2 headed dragonwrought kobold sorcerer.

[skraginator]

I've been toying with the idea of creating a two headed kobold sorcerer for some time now and will soon have an opportunity to play it but I'm having some trouble getting the multiheaded template to work as far as LA and its additional racial HD.. since multi headed template adds 2 HD but you are creating a 1 hd creature could you use the second HD from the template to be your first class level hd? Also if I take dragonwrought feat at first HD then wouldn't I be taking a level of dragon instead of humanoid? And instead of taking humanoid or dragon HD would it be possible to take kobold paragon levels since they are in essence racial levels not class levels?

I was considering reducing some of the bonuses from the multiheaded template to lower the LA to +1 instead of +2.. things like the +1 natural armor and combat reflexes aren't all that necessary. The main reason for wanting two heads besides the rp flavor is to eventually be able to take the Multivoice feat from savage species although its prereqs may need some updating/tweaking as quicken spell does nothing for a sorcerer unless you waste more feats or dragon psychosis to gain wizard spellcasting.. but this is a charisma build not an int build. I was thinking of substituting cooperative spell for quicken and accepting that the superior two weapon fighting you gain from multiheaded template would fill the two-weapon/imp two-weapon fighting feats. The required 15 dex and int still seem fair.

Once I figure out the first few levels I was thinking of taking Dracolexi Prc then a few levels of incantrix

[Werephilosopher]

I've been toying with the idea of creating a two headed kobold sorcerer for some time now and will soon have an opportunity to play it but I'm having some trouble getting the multiheaded template to work as far as LA and its additional racial HD.. since multi headed template adds 2 HD but you are creating a 1 hd creature could you use the second HD from the template to be your first class level hd?

No. You can only replace a racial hit die with a class level if it's your only racial hit die.


Also if I take dragonwrought feat at first HD then wouldn't I be taking a level of dragon instead of humanoid?

Yes, the multiheaded template would give you dragon HD instead of humanoid HD.


And instead of taking humanoid or dragon HD would it be possible to take kobold paragon levels since they are in essence racial levels not class levels?

No.


I was considering reducing some of the bonuses from the multiheaded template to lower the LA to +1 instead of +2.. things like the +1 natural armor and combat reflexes aren't all that necessary. The main reason for wanting two heads besides the rp flavor is to eventually be able to take the Multivoice feat from savage species although its prereqs may need some updating/tweaking as quicken spell does nothing for a sorcerer unless you waste more feats or dragon psychosis to gain wizard spellcasting.. but this is a charisma build not an int build. I was thinking of substituting cooperative spell for quicken and accepting that the superior two weapon fighting you gain from multiheaded template would fill the two-weapon/imp two-weapon fighting feats. The required 15 dex and int still seem fair.

If you're not the DM, you'd need to run these changes by the DM first.

[skraginator]

Ok, new issue. If I plan on taking levels of Metaphysical Spellshaper from Book of Erotica Fantasy and use its metamagic manipulation which allows you to take ability damage/spell level instead of actually raising the level of the spell when applying metamagic feats. You get to choose which ability the damage is done to. Now if I apply the dracolitch template and gain the undead trait which makes me immune to any ability damage to physical stats.. could I then choose a physical stat when using metamagic manipulation and thus be immune to the ability damage?

[Telonius]

This might result in a version of the "Strongheart Vest" argument for Hellfire Warlock. Basically, you have an ability that deals damage to you in order to function, but then another ability that prevents the damage from ever having taken place.

Unfortunately I'm on a work computer at the moment, so there is no way in the Nine Hells that I'm going to check the wording of Metaphysical Spellshaper. If it's worded at all like Hellfire Warlock, and says that you absolutely have to take the damage, then it's the same thing as if you were trying to use a Strongheart Vest as a Hellfire Warlock. How to resolve that situation is a massive argument that has been going on for years and never been completely resolved to everybody's satisfaction. Check with your DM on how that would work. (It's third-party anyway, and, well, BoEF, so that's something you really need to clear with your DM before moving forward in any case).

But, if the wording is a little less clear-cut, you might have an argument for it.

[Darrin]

Maybe try Multiheaded followed by Necropolitan. This drops you by 1 RHD, so when you take your first class level, you replace your remaining RHD.

[torrasque666]

Maybe try Multiheaded followed by Necropolitan. This drops you by 1 RHD, so when you take your first class level, you replace your remaining RHD.

This.... might not be the best idea. Necropolitan drops you a level and then an additional 1000 XP. So in order for Necropolitan to work, you need to be at least 3rd level. Put it this way, 2nd level is 1000 XP. When you undergo the ritual, you lose a level like you were raised, dropping you to halfway between 1st(0) and 2nd(1000) leaving you at 500 XP. Aaaaand then you lose the additional 1000 XP killing you.

[BilltheCynic]

Maybe try Multiheaded followed by Necropolitan. This drops you by 1 RHD, so when you take your first class level, you replace your remaining RHD.

Unless I'm mistaken, Necropolitan can only be applied to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids. The dragonwrought feat changes your race to dragon, which would make you ineligible for the template (and even if you could take it, would you really rather have the undead type over the dragon type?)

[torrasque666]

Unless I'm mistaken, Necropolitan can only be applied to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids.
That too. Unless he was planning to use Necropolitan to drop him down to first level, and find some way of getting the 1st level feat changed to Dragonwrought after the fact.

[skraginator]

Thanks for the feedback. First off iy doesn't say you have to take the ability damage for metaphysical metamagic it just says you get to choose what stat takes the damage.. so if you were undead theoretically you could choose a physical stat or maybe even con. Second is that prettymuch any 3.5 source is ok sans book of 9 swords or whatever its called and we are doing a dm rotation and im currently the dm. I can ask the guy who dms next what he thinks about the wording but our party is pretty optimized so far so we'll see.

[skraginator]

Oh and the last thing.. we arent using the xp system. We've just been leveling up every X number of sessions that has scaled up as we get higher in level. Currently I should be starting at level 15 maybe 16 if it takes a few more sessions for them to get through my leg of the campaign. Also ive been thinking of scrapping the multiheaded template since the racial hd and LAs are really tough on casters unless I can find a workaround. I was hoping the dragonwrought kobold shenanigans would help even that out.

[skraginator]

Played around with using the multi-headed template some more and came up with a decent mystic theurge build that gives level 9 cleric and arcane spells.
LA+1 multiheaded template by dropping some of the bonuses like the +1na and combat reflexes. One head pyroclastic, one head shadow
level 1 Dragon (dragonwrought kobold) Feats: dragonwrought, draconic reserve, malign spell focus[to qualify for ur-priest, Iron-will from Otyugh hole. [taking 2 flaws to gain 3 feats at level 1]
level 2 Dragon (the base saves are now +3/+3/+3 to qualify for ur-priest, and dragons have access to all knowledge skills.
level 3 Sorcerer 1 quicken spell (to qualify for multivoice- assuming DM is ok to consider superior multiweapon fighting/multi attack cover the two weapon fighting prereqs.)
level 4 sorcerer 2
level 5 sorcerer 3 (all requirements can be met for ur-priest now)
level 6 ur-priest 1 greater draconic rite +1 sorc level, loredrake +2 sorc level, feat: draconic power- +1 caster level [doesn't specify what casting class it is applied to, possibly both CLs?]
level 7 ur-priest 2 gain rebuke undead and second level divine spells to now qualify for MT
level 8 Mystic Theurge 1
level 9 MT 2 feat: Divine Metamagic
level 10 MT 3
level 11 MT 4
level 12 MT 5 feat: rapid metamagic (Would this now let me apply quicken spell to sorc spells?)
level 13 MT 6
level 14 MT 7
level 15 MT 8 feat : multivoice -[Each head can now cast a spell each round] Can now cast level 9 cleric spells and 7th level arcane spells as 14th level sorcerer
level 16 incantrix +sorc lev Bonus feat: extend spell
level 17 incantrix +sorc lev
level 18 incantrix +sorc lev feat: persistent spell [now able to cast level 9 arcane spells]
level 19 Mage of the arcane order for spellpool or Diabolist to give all target/area spells the benefit of evil descriptor/malign spell focus. Another level of incantrix would yield a bonus feat as well.


The build is really tight on feats so I'll probably have to rely on some metamagic rods and +caster level items to boost those dice/DCs and some night sticks etc for more divine metamagic charges. I'll be starting at level 15 and by 18 I can make use of the incantrix persistent spell cheese to make up for the poor hp and lack of class features. I will probably try to RP into dracolitchdom at some point as it would add a lot of benefits and I'd be able to use inflict spells to heal myself.
Assuming the multiheaded/multivoice shenanigans will be cool with the DM does it look like I'm missing anything or does anyone have tips I didn't consider?

[WhamBamSam]

Note that the fluff text on the Multiheaded template says that it's sometimes the result of magical experimentation as opposed to an inborn mutation. You might be able to get it as an acquired template, which would save you the 3rd RHD.

Also, Dracolich is a terrible caster template. The best things about it are a) its fancy version of Paralyzing Touch, which is not remotely caster oriented, and b) the ability to hop to a new corpse after dying, which comes with the specific caveat that you can't cast spells until you've finished recovering from proto-dracolichdom. It's sometimes decent for psionic or martial types who don't lose much when they have to slum it for a few days as a proto-dracolich, but I don't see having it doing you any favors.

[DrMotives]

That's a good point, dracolich really isn't a caster template. I know a lich is for casters, and dracolichs are for dragon-typed things, but as a straight caster you might be better off as a dragon who is a lich, not a dracolich.

Dracolich actually works great for making big dumb monsters, there's lots of dragon-type things with low int scores that can use it. Slap half-dragon then dracolich on your favorite big ol' magical beast, and it's perfect for a dungeon boss.

[skraginator]

That's a good point, dracolich really isn't a caster template. I know a lich is for casters, and dracolichs are for dragon-typed things, but as a straight caster you might be better off as a dragon who is a lich, not a dracolich.

Dracolich actually works great for making big dumb monsters, there's lots of dragon-type things with low int scores that can use it. Slap half-dragon then dracolich on your favorite big ol' magical beast, and it's perfect for a dungeon boss.


I realize that, I mostly just wanted it for the rp flavor. I think dry litch may be the strongest litch as it gets the unholy toughness feat for free for a huge hp boost.


Note that the fluff text on the Multiheaded template says that it's sometimes the result of magical experimentation as opposed to an inborn mutation. You might be able to get it as an acquired template, which would save you the 3rd RHD.


There are only 2 RHD and I think I can drop the LA down to +1 like I said.. the RHD are dragon HD so they aren't that bad but I suppose there would be a better way to get the base saves for urlord.. Can anyone think of a way to get +3 base fort save by level 5 with as many sorcerer CLs as possible? I don't want to take that savage bard or anything like that and the save granting feats are bonuses that don't add to base. I was curious though about Dragon hit dice and their caster level.. under dragon type it says that a dragons caster level is based on its age category for its color/type of dragon and being a dragon and having age categories would I be able to use this based on the color of my dragon heritage? For instance, if I were to be a venerable red dragonwrought kobold would my caster level be 19 as it shows under the red dragon age progression chart?