What Classes Work Best for A Tengu?

[Palanan]

I was never fond of kenkus in 3.5, but for some reason the Pathfinder tengu caught my eye. I'm a little disappointed that they're Medium in Pathfinder, but even so I'm intrigued.

What classes would suit a tengu? Rogue, obviously, but would being a tengu give an edge to anything else?

[grarrrg]

Well, the base stats of +DEX/WIS -CON means that Ranged attacks and WIS/Divine casting are stronger, but the CON hit means less HP.
Swordtrained (or the Alt-trait) is a good boon for classes that only have Simple proficiencies.
The Bite attack is an added bonus to Melee-types.

Rogue is decent (especially Un-Rogue to make better use of DEX).
Good stats for a Gunslinger or Ranger.
Inquisitor benefits from the WIS and the increased Weapon Profs.

[Psyren]

Monk gets good stats and a very useful favored class bonus (i.e. more ki.) The Con hit hurts but you can build around it, e.g. by going for Zen Archer and/or Qinggong.

The stats also fit ranger and hunter well - and again, focusing on archery will minimize the impact of a penalty to Con. Inquisitor was mentioned and the proficiencies help it a lot.

I also like it with Ninja with the Exotic Weapon Training - letting you have free double-chained kama proficiency.

[Geddy2112]

Tengu are a fantastic race. Since they get bonuses to dex and wis and a penalty to con, they are an ideal ranged fighters. They excel as rangers, inquisitors, gunslingers and some monks as others have said. They also make great caster druids and support clerics. Really they can function as just about any class except barbarian/bloodrager/skald, but you probably want to avoid casters that cannot wear armor with a hit in con.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Monk gets good stats and a very useful favored class bonus (i.e. more ki.) The Con hit hurts but you can build around it, e.g. by going for Zen Archer and/or Qinggong.

How do you Zen Archer in Pathfinder? I like the concept, but as a longtime 3.5 player I'm leery of the monk at best.


Originally Posted by Geddy2112
Tengu are a fantastic race. Since they get bonuses to dex and wis and a penalty to con, they are an ideal ranged fighters. They excel as rangers, inquisitors, gunslingers and some monks as others have said.

A tengu gunslinger tickles my fancy, but as it happens my current group has an aversion to gunpowder, so that notion will have to wait.

How well would a tengu work as a range-oriented shaman? I've only glanced at the class in the ACG, but thematically it fits very well.

[Yanisa]

How do you Zen Archer in Pathfinder? I like the concept, but as a longtime 3.5 player I'm leery of the monk at best.

Zen Archer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/zen-archer) in pathfinder is an archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes).

[Psyren]

How do you Zen Archer in Pathfinder? I like the concept, but as a longtime 3.5 player I'm leery of the monk at best.

As Yanisa mentioned, it's a monk archetype, and it's quite strong. Archery in general works better in PF because it's easier to bypass DR; a high enough enhancement bonus obviates the need for special materials, or you can just use Clustered Shots, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat) plus you have Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat) for more damage. If you have a really high to-hit chance, you can convert some of that into painful debuffs via Called Shots. And finally, your arrows will hit like a truck because you get to use your unarmed damage dice with your bow.

[Geddy2112]

How do you Zen Archer in Pathfinder? I like the concept, but as a longtime 3.5 player I'm leery of the monk at best.
How well would a tengu work as a range-oriented shaman? I've only glanced at the class in the ACG, but thematically it fits very well.

While it is true that the monk is still weak in pathfinder(although unchained has boosted the monk) zen archers are head and shoulders above the regular monk, and probably one of the best non magic classes in the game.

Shaman casts and hexes off of wis, so probably pretty well. Shaman's have a ton of hex options and at higher levels you can be incredibly versatile in playing different roles.

[grarrrg]

Shaman casts and hexes off of wis, so probably pretty well. Shaman's have a ton of hex options and at higher levels you can be incredibly versatile in playing different roles.

The thing to watch with Shamans though is that while the Casting is WIS based, a lot of the side abilities run off of CHA (and even one or two that need INT).

So you need to be a "dual stat caster" to get the most out of it.

[Khosan]

Having just built a Tengu Warpriest, I'm pretty happy with him. There's a couple ways you can take it (and honestly a ranged build is probably for the best), but I ended up going with claw attacks. Claw attack racial with weapon focus and Slashing Grace is a pretty nice combination and doesn't even take that many feats.

[Hrugner]

I don't think RAW has natural weapons as "one handed weapons", they seem to be their own type of weapon; if that's the case I would think slashing grace would be a no go.

[Khosan]

Maybe. Weapon Finesse does specify that natural weapons count as light weapons, but I don't really know if that means they'd qualify.

If not Slashing Grace, Deadly Agility definitely works if DSP content is available.

[Yanisa]

Maybe. Weapon Finesse does specify that natural weapons count as light weapons, but I don't really know if that means they'd qualify.

If not Slashing Grace, Deadly Agility definitely works if DSP content is available.

Yes, natural weapons are considered light weapons. But light weapons are not one-handed weapons. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons#TOC-Light-One-Handed-and-Two-Handed-Mel) By strict RAW you cannot use Slashing Grace with a dagger either.

[Hrugner]

I would guess most people who don't come to forums house rule slashing grace to be more liberal in it's requirements; it's certainly worth asking a DM about.

[Psyren]

The point of Slashing Grace being one-handed+finesse only is to require you to dip Swashbuckler to use it with light weapons, because of their Swashbuckler Finesse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler#TOC-Swashbuckler-Finesse-Ex-) class feature. Without that, the selection of weapons you can use Slashing Grace with is very limited - dueling swords, whips and scorpion whips I believe.

But it's not like Warpriests and Inquisitors need Dex to damage anyway, they have plenty of other bonus damage sources.

[Yanisa]

The point of Slashing Grace being one-handed+finesse only is to require you to dip Swashbuckler to use it with light weapons, because of their Swashbuckler Finesse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler#TOC-Swashbuckler-Finesse-Ex-) class feature. Without that, the selection of weapons you can use Slashing Grace with is very limited - dueling swords, whips and scorpion whips I believe.

Slashing Grace works with a lot more weapons then those three. Unless you want both dexterity on damage and attack. :smalltongue: Seriously though, for most dexterity based builds Slashing Grace is a trap.

[grarrrg]

...Slashing Grace...scorpion whips...

Disclaimer: Scorpion Whips (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9t9r) are not viable for Slashing Grace, as they are Light Weapons.
Unless you have both Scorpion Prof AND Whip Prof, then you can use it in "whip mode", but you'd still have to have Slashing Grace picked for "Whip", which means you need Weapon Focus (Whip), which means that you're kinda just better off taking Whip Mastery instead of Weapon Prof Scorpion Whip, which defeats the entire purpose of using Slashing Grace with a Scorpion Whip, as you now aren't gaining any benefit over a normal Whip (unless you're into Performance combat).

That said, "double Whip Proficiency" does get you Lethal Damage with a 'whip' 1 feat sooner than Whip Mastery does, BUT you'll still provoke AoO's when using as a Whip.

Yeah. The Scorpion Whip is a really cruddy option now.