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Anderlith
2015-05-21, 09:30 PM
Hi, playground. I've been wanting to run an urban fantasy for a while now but I'm not sure what game systems are out there that are any good. I'm not really a fan of rules light games like FATE and I don't like the way nWod is becoming more narrative among other things. So does the playground have anything to recommend that is fairly crunchy & has a good urban fantasy vibe?

MrZJunior
2015-05-21, 09:32 PM
Would Shadowrun count? It's fantasy and mostly takes place in urban areas. :smallbiggrin:

Eisenheim
2015-05-21, 09:37 PM
If you can tolerate the vagaries of d20, d20 modern can do acceptable urban fantasy. Some good setting ideas in it even if the mechanics trouble you.

goto124
2015-05-22, 12:09 AM
Would Shadowrun count? It's fantasy and mostly takes place in urban areas. :smallbiggrin:

Shadowrun is way too crunchy with a lot of dice to roll. Nope.

MrZJunior
2015-05-22, 07:41 AM
Shadowrun is way too crunchy with a lot of dice to roll. Nope.

I thought he said that he wants crunch.

goto124
2015-05-22, 08:22 AM
Yea but Shadowrun level crunch is a bit much.

sakuuya
2015-05-22, 09:52 AM
Yea but Shadowrun level crunch is a bit much.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss it so readily for the OP. It may be to crunchy for you (and for me, for that matter), but for someone who doesn't want rules-light or "narrative" games, it may be just the thing.

"Narrative" is in quotes there (and here) because I don't know what it means in this context. Can you elaborate on what you dislike about NWoD, Anderlith?

JeenLeen
2015-05-22, 11:06 AM
The Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel games use cinematic Unisystem. They might fit.

There's also Witchcraft, which is Unisystem and I think free. At least, I think that's the name of it. Unisystem. Modern setting. Play as witches, Rosicrucians, templars, etc. Demons, angels, and eldritch abominations are lurking around sometimes.

I've never played any, but they look interesting, have plenty of numbers and the magic system wasn't immediately comprehensible to me (which, generally, translate to some crunch), and could probably be modified to have whatever urban feel you like (if they don't fit already).

If you'd like to try a new game that doesn't take itself too seriously but is technically urban fantasy (has supernatural + urban setting), the Sam & Fuzzy RPG (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/673212907/the-underground-a-sam-and-fuzzy-rpg?ref=nav_search)is out. Or, at least Kickstarter backers are getting their PDFs and I reckon it'll be for sale soon. The crunch is rather light, though, so you might not like it. It's d20 based, but rather unlike D&D.

Knaight
2015-05-22, 12:45 PM
Would Shadowrun count? It's fantasy and mostly takes place in urban areas. :smallbiggrin:

For those not picking up on the subtleties here, Shadowrun isn't an urban fantasy game by any stretch. It's fantasy cyberpunk.

Fawkes
2015-05-22, 12:48 PM
For those not picking up on the subtleties here, Shadowrun isn't an urban fantasy game by any stretch. It's fantasy cyberpunk.

It is, but it contains those urban fantasy elements. You could probably set up a shadowrun game that ignored the cyberpunk elements.

In a similar vein, you could use Mutants and Masterminds, which is set up primarily for Superhero RPGs but contains the tools for Urban Fantasy.

Anderlith
2015-05-22, 06:21 PM
I've had experience with Shadowrun, but id have to modify it a lot. Cutting out cyber & decking is at least a third of the game & character options. And it doesn't have the tone that I want.

By narrative I mean that WoD is too focused on telling some "emotionally traumatic" experience. It's especially drawn away from its old white wolf roots that I feel had more diversity than his five clans/orders/tribes where one is a bloodthirsty warrior, one is a shadowy rogue, one is a leader, one is a mystic, & one likes humans more & is more social. It's always the same 5 types in every format. I find it incredibly boring & restrictive. On top of this, with nWoD's second edition they have gone farther from my opinion of its roots are & really ramped up mechanics & such that are solely for narrative purposes, making it seem like they want you to play the game corroboratory with clear ideas of what is in store for the characters. They also fail & giving the GM easy tools to make monsters/NPCs. & also I don't want to say this as hate or anything but nWoD is especially making fluff for those that are aggressively different. I don't have a problem with that at all, its just my group doesn't play that way, & i feel like nWoD kind of shoves it down your throat. (btw please don't see this as an attack on anyone, I'm just trying to explain my own feelings on the matter)

I also don't see d20modern working, its a bit too dated mechanics wise & i don't like its magic system where you spend $5 as components to cast a spell to order take out lol.

I'll look into unisystem but if i go with any media based game system I'd rather use Dresden FATE

Thrawn4
2015-05-23, 05:48 AM
Unknown Armies? Haven't played it though....

Anonymouswizard
2015-05-23, 06:22 AM
Unknown Armies is a sort of rules medium, but very fun system, where the major things that create a character are roleplaying things (your obsession and triggers, which give mechanical bonuses when pulled). The schools of adept magic are very cool (I still want to play a Cliomancer, although a friend will kill me if I ever do it in the same game as her), as are avatar powers (who are roughly equal with adepts when they gain their second channel) which are rife with alternate interpretations (the vigilante could be a mask of the Hunter, the Masterless Man, the Warrior, or several others). Mumdanes are able to keep up, mainly because they can get away with dumping Soul (in the one game I've played in, we were street level with an avatar, an avatar/thaumaturge, a mechanomancer, and a normal who supplied almost all our muscle), or really specialise in whatever area they want due to not having a massive drain on their skill points. Just remember to pick your obsession skill wisely, because that skill gets a huge boost in effectiveness.

Anderlith
2015-05-23, 06:39 AM
Thanks for the recommendation, that sounds like it would fit. What is the setting like? A friend also recommended Call of Cthuhlu/Trail of Cthulhlu, but I don't know anything about the system

Anonymouswizard
2015-05-23, 07:39 AM
Thanks for the recommendation, that sounds like it would fit. What is the setting like? A friend also recommended Call of Cthuhlu/Trail of Cthulhlu, but I don't know anything about the system

The setting is our world, but with weird stuff going on. At street level you possibly only know as much as 'strange powers exist'.

At global level, which is my favourite, you know that magick exists and that it's not like in the books. Adepts broke and discovered a way to alter reality, Avatars act like an archetype and gain power, an Thaumaturges try to control the occult underground (although rarely the world). Everyone is wary of awakening the 'sleeping tiger' though, because technology is not only generally easier than magick, there are also a lot more normals than members of the OU.

Why are they trying? You shall find out at Cosmic level. Just remember, 333.

Some things to consider:
Combat with weapons is already very deadly, and only gets more deadly with guns.
Charges for most Adept schools are rather limited, and for Thaumaturges even more so.
Schools of magic in the codebook revolve around: books, history/memory, drunkenness, chance, acting, money, sex, and cities.
Ban Pornomancers unless you have a mature group. Avatars of the Mystic hermaphrodite as well. Do not let your players be pornomancers of the mystic hermaphrodite unless you really are sure of their maturity.

Maglubiyet
2015-05-23, 12:58 PM
What exactly do you mean by "urban fantasy" -- what type of campaign are you trying to run? Based on the recommendations it seems like the definition is all over the board. Call of Cthulhu is radically different in setting and flavor from Shadowrun and Unisystem games.

To help nail it down:

what time period is this going to be set in -- modern, historic, future, fantasy?
what role will PC's have -- creatures of the night, mundane investigators, superpowered monster hunters?
what is the status of magic/supernatural -- openly part of the culture, hidden, unknown?
what is the source of magic/supernatural -- part of nature, Evil/demonic, alien/extra-dimensional, psionic?

Anderlith
2015-05-23, 02:37 PM
Modern day, playing humans. Options to become more than human over the course of the game. Horrible scary monsters, & general occulty things. Basically the tv show Supernatural, with bits of Dresden Files & Buffy/Angel thrown in. Set in my hometown, & starring the players as approximations of themselves.

Thrawn4
2015-05-23, 05:38 PM
Modern day, playing humans. Options to become more than human over the course of the game. Horrible scary monsters, & general occulty things. Basically the tv show Supernatural, with bits of Dresden Files & Buffy/Angel thrown in. Set in my hometown, & starring the players as approximations of themselves.
According to what I have read, Unknown Armies is more like what Supernatural would be if Tarantino had been the director.

Not sure about the system though. D100 systems are rather unreliable IMHO. Although a good DM might find a way to solve this.

Grinner
2015-05-23, 06:00 PM
I feel like WitchCraft would match your idea better than Unknown Armies. Unknown Armies is wonderfully written, but it's heavily tied into its setting. The magic is cool, but it relies heavily on a very specific esoteric cosmology. WitchCraft seems a little more generic.

Maglubiyet
2015-05-23, 06:14 PM
Since no one's brought it up yet -- GURPS. You said you wanted crunch. :smallsmile:

GURPS Horror has great rules for modeling and dealing with the supernatural. Fright Checks, anyone?

Zale
2015-05-24, 04:19 AM
As someone who's read through the Witchcraft book, I'll throw my hat in for it.

It's simpler than any of the WoD books, but still crunchy enough to make me happy.

Guns are as lethal as they should be.

Magic can be easily tweaked to allow for the whole spectrum from fireball throwing street wizard to midnight-ritual-cursing-witch.

While the game has "factions" they can be ignored if desired with no negative consequences.

Magic itself ranges from sorceries to psychic powers to necromancy to divine inspiration.

I would definitely play witchcraft over the WoD series personally. It's less depressing and easier to pick up.

Anonymouswizard
2015-05-24, 06:15 AM
As someone who's read through the Witchcraft book, I'll throw my hat in for it.

It's simpler than any of the WoD books, but still crunchy enough to make me happy.

Guns are as lethal as they should be.

Magic can be easily tweaked to allow for the whole spectrum from fireball throwing street wizard to midnight-ritual-cursing-witch.

While the game has "factions" they can be ignored if desired with no negative consequences.

Magic itself ranges from sorceries to psychic powers to necromancy to divine inspiration.

I would definitely play witchcraft over the WoD series personally. It's less depressing and easier to pick up.

This, the only problem I have with Witchcraft is that I've had a bad experience with Unisystem (all flesh in particular, I would play again in a combat light game to give it it's fair trial), and as the PDF is free you should definitely look. Just remember to let PCs use Intelligence or Perception for social skills, or they'll be the only skills failing.

Also, you don't want players taking the full drawback allowance unless they just can't buy the qualities they need, because the higher level drawbacks are deliberating (although low level ones rarely effect you, the system seems to expect some but not a lot).

And if one of your players wants to play a magic using priest or a research focused scientist, don't do what my GM did and ban the first then make the second's skills useless.

comicshorse
2015-05-24, 08:16 AM
The setting is our world, but with weird stuff going on. At street level you possibly only know as much as 'strange powers exist'.

At global level, which is my favourite, you know that magick exists and that it's not like in the books. Adepts broke and discovered a way to alter reality, Avatars act like an archetype and gain power, an Thaumaturges try to control the occult underground (although rarely the world). Everyone is wary of awakening the 'sleeping tiger' though, because technology is not only generally easier than magick, there are also a lot more normals than members of the OU.

Why are they trying? You shall find out at Cosmic level. Just remember, 333.

Some things to consider:
Combat with weapons is already very deadly, and only gets more deadly with guns.
Charges for most Adept schools are rather limited, and for Thaumaturges even more so.
Schools of magic in the codebook revolve around: books, history/memory, drunkenness, chance, acting, money, sex, and cities.
Ban Pornomancers unless you have a mature group. Avatars of the Mystic hermaphrodite as well. Do not let your players be pornomancers of the mystic hermaphrodite unless you really are sure of their maturity.

Whut ?
Trail of Cthulhu obviously has a very different take on the Cthulhu Mythos

Anonymouswizard
2015-05-24, 08:21 AM
Whut ?
Trail of Cthulhu obviously has a very different take on the Cthulhu Mythos

That was Unknown Armies, which I describe as the anti cthulhu. The art words are 'you did it'.

I find the implications scarier.

Milo v3
2015-05-24, 08:22 AM
Whut ?
Trail of Cthulhu obviously has a very different take on the Cthulhu Mythos

That was answering what is the setting of Unknown Armies like.

comicshorse
2015-05-24, 08:32 AM
Yeah its the fact the the OP was also quoted talking about Call of Cthulhu/Trail of Cthulhu that got me mixed up.

Though speaking of Unknown Armies does the setting include Plutomancers (?), whose magic revolves around money ? 'cause I played a single session of a system that did that at a convention once and have been thinking about checking out the background recently but couldn't remember what is was called.

Milo v3
2015-05-24, 08:35 AM
Yeah its the fact the the OP was also quoted talking about Call of Cthulhu/Trail of Cthulhu that got me mixed up.

Though speaking of Unknown Armies does the setting include Plutomancers (?), whose magic revolves around money ? 'cause I played a single session of a system that did that at a convention once and have been thinking about checking out the background recently but couldn't remember what is was called.

Yes I think it does have Plutomancers.

Anonymouswizard
2015-05-24, 01:23 PM
Yeah its the fact the the OP was also quoted talking about Call of Cthulhu/Trail of Cthulhu that got me mixed up.

Though speaking of Unknown Armies does the setting include Plutomancers (?), whose magic revolves around money ? 'cause I played a single session of a system that did that at a convention once and have been thinking about checking out the background recently but couldn't remember what is was called.

Yep, it's actually in the 2e corebook, although it's in my mind the least interesting school, I much prefer Cliomancy or Urbanomancy. You can also dual channel, which is where you either have an adept school and avatar archetype, or you're channelling two archetypes (which pretty much bars you from half the endgame of high powered avatars, and can be either easy or difficult depending on your taboos).

Plutomancy is the exact term used for money mages as well, because adepts don't give a ...... about linguistic correctness.

Earthwalker
2015-05-26, 05:04 AM
Ok I am going with an odd one here. Not sure if you can still get it but have a look at

Dark Conspiracy

Its a modern day (well 10 mins into the future) game where you play normal folks looking into something that is going wrong with the world. There is something out there. Its set up as modern day horror / fantasy.

At least give it a google and see what you think. Its plenty crunchy being based on one of the traveler systems.

Anderlith
2015-05-26, 04:26 PM
I have experience with Traveller so that would be kinda cool :) thanks I'll look into it, I appreciate everyone's suggestions & I'll show them to my group for their opinions.

LibraryOgre
2015-05-27, 11:15 AM
I'll toss out Apocalypse Prevention, Inc. from Third Eye Games (http://thirdeyegames.net/apocalypse-prevention-inc/). While the default assumption is that you're playing pseudo-MiB agents, that's pretty easily discarded. It also has playable werewolf and vampire races standard, as well as some fire demons, changelings, ghosts, and giant fish men.

There's a Savage Worlds conversion, and a 2nd edition coming out soon.

(In interests of disclosure, I've done some work for TEG that hasn't been published yet; I wrote a chunk of the book on the fire demons, but it got delayed because other people didn't contribute what they were supposed to and the 2nd edition came up)