Highest-utility class?

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm going to be joining a game soon, and being probably the heaviest optimizer in my group I want to play something that doesn't dominate combat. What class(es) would be the best for out-of-combat utility with some combat support on the side? DSP is allowed, the game starts at level 5 (so the very early levels are irrelevant) and full casters/manifesters are banned.

So far I'm thinking Bard, Investigator, or Inquisitor, but want your thoughts. What (non-full-caster) class or build provides the most to a party, ignoring direct combat power?

[grarrrg]

What class(es) would be the best for out-of-combat utility with some combat support on the side?

So far I'm thinking Bard, Investigator, or Inquisitor

Inquisitors don't have all that much out of combat utility.

For my money, I'd take Bard. 6 Skills/level, 6th level casting, Bardic Knowledge+Lore Master covers most of the Knowledge skills. Well Versed can extend your skill points even farther. Gobs of Archetypes to choose from for customization purposes.

[Molosse]

I'm going to be joining a game soon, and being probably the heaviest optimizer in my group I want to play something that doesn't dominate combat. What class(es) would be the best for out-of-combat utility with some combat support on the side? DSP is allowed, the game starts at level 5 (so the very early levels are irrelevant) and full casters/manifesters are banned.

So far I'm thinking Bard, Investigator, or Inquisitor, but want your thoughts. What (non-full-caster) class or build provides the most to a party, ignoring direct combat power?

Bard and Investigator would be the way to go mate, as grarrrg noted Inquisitor is not a great utility class, beyond it's uses for perception, intimidation and the like.

An Archivist Bard would be a really focused' Skill Monkey while a Restless Inspector Investigator gives you a Ranger/Tracker feel ontop of the the Investigator chassis and an Empiricist let's you just throw everything onto Int and roll with it.

[avr]

I kind of like an investigator for the ability to use magic quietly, which a bard can never match.

[Esprit15]

If you want utility, there's always Factotum, for "Oh, I can do that," on demand.

[Hrugner]

An empiricist investigator is pretty solid as a utility option, getting all those skills as intelligence based is really nice. Take 2 levels of that and 3 levels of vivisectionist/mindchemist alchemist and you'd be pretty much the best at out of combat low magic challenges. This option has "lots of role playing potential"... I mean you'll probably not be much in a fight.

[Psyren]

Inquisitors don't have all that much out of combat utility.


Bard and Investigator would be the way to go mate, as grarrrg noted Inquisitor is not a great utility class, beyond it's uses for perception, intimidation and the like.

You two are kidding right? All the alignment detectors at-will, immediate-action discern lies (all of which are auto-still and auto-silent, very important), all the conversation skills, the Big 4 knowledges, stealth/survival/ride and 6+Int to spend on them, huge buffs to Intimidate, and I haven't even gotten to their spells yet - they have plenty of utility outside a fight.

Not saying they're better OOC than bards - well, they are better in certain situations actually (see below), but they're not slouches either.


I kind of like an investigator for the ability to use magic quietly, which a bard can never match.

Indeed.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm playing an Investigator right now and it's pretty ridiculous. Hands down the best skill character I've ever rolled, party friendly in a fight (Sickening Strike + Cornugan Smash + Bruising Intellect = huge debuffs on every hit-- party casters gotta love the -4 saves), and with a great set of buffs to pass out to anyone who needs 'em. If you really want, you can take talents like Effortless Aid and Inspirational Expertise to buff your allies instead of fighting yourself.

The ultimate answer to the question is, of course, wizard/arcanist, because it always is.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm playing an Investigator right now and it's pretty ridiculous. Hands down the best skill character I've ever rolled, party friendly in a fight (Sickening Strike + Cornugan Smash + Bruising Intellect = huge debuffs on every hit-- party casters gotta love the -4 saves), and with a great set of buffs to pass out to anyone who needs 'em. If you really want, you can take talents like Effortless Aid and Inspirational Expertise to buff your allies instead of fighting yourself.

The ultimate answer to the question is, of course, wizard/arcanist, because it always is.

Hm. That sickening strike/cornugon smash combo looks pretty good. What ability score arrangement has your character got? I was thinking about going for a dex build so I wouldn't get hit as much, but putting some points into strength seems worthwhile (because I'd need power attack for Cornugon Smash).

[Khosan]

An empiricist investigator is pretty solid as a utility option, getting all those skills as intelligence based is really nice.

And if you want to take that even further, pick up the Student of Philosophy trait. You can be the party face - with Int!

[Extra Anchovies]

And if you want to take that even further, pick up the Student of Philosophy trait. You can be the party face - with Int!

That's actually what I plan to do. Student of Philosophy and Bruising Intellect for all of the interaction skills to Int. I'll probably play him as a lawyer or something :smallbiggrin:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hm. That sickening strike/cornugon smash combo looks pretty good. What ability score arrangement has your character got? I was thinking about going for a dex build so I wouldn't get hit as much, but putting some points into strength seems worthwhile (because I'd need power attack for Cornugon Smash).
I had Int > Str > Dex, Con > Wis > Cha, using Empiricist and traits for the maximum amount of Int to everything. Fun story: You can be absolutely, ludicrously good at perception and sense motive this way-- I routinely beat everyone else by margins of 5-10 points, even before I add extracts like Focused Scrutiny and Acute Senses.


Lizardfolk Investigator (Empiricist) 7

Abilities: Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8
Traits: Student of Philosophy, Bruising Intellect
Feats: Potion Glutton*, Extra Talent (Expanded Inspiration), Power Attack, Cornugan Smash
Investigator Talents: Alchemist Discovery (Infusion), Quick Study, Sickening Offensive
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Craft (Alchemy), Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth, and Spellcraft maxed out; a smattering of points in most of the other skills that are either Int based or get free Inspiration.

*Needs to be retrained; when I took it, I was under the impression that it worked for extracts, and my GM was not.