Things a Friend Doesn't Let a Friend Do

[Deridis]

This is my first thread just an ahead notice. Anyway the purpose of this thread is to tell about some of the, I'm sure many, times you have tried to warn your fellow party members about the danger of a certain action (whether or not they listened being something else). So tell us the most memorable times you have (tried) to warn a friend, and if you want, the end result as well.

I'll start it off, although it was to players' in my campaign not fellow adventurers it sure is funny. My group of two were playing as an elven bard and dwarven cleric when they encountered a rust monster, they decided to throw their money at it for reasons I still can't figure out. I of course tried to warn them that this would well destroy their money, yet they still couldn't understand how they ended up broke a few turns later... To be nice I ruled that the monster was so full it didn't want to eat their gear now.

[ComaVision]

No, seriously, Monk isn't a good class.


Yes, I'm sure. Try the unarmed Swordsage instead.


I know it's not called Monk. You can call it a Monk if it makes you happy but seriously don't play the Monk class.


OK, have fun with your Monk :smallannoyed:

[JAL_1138]

Three things:

*No PVP unless the group and DM are ok with it and you can keep it IC only.

*Don't split the party.

*Navigable bodies of water are always, repeat, always bad. Nothing good will come from going on the water, or worse, IN the water.

[goto124]

Friends don't let friends play kender.

(with a few exceptions)

[Jbr208]

*Navigable bodies of water are always, repeat, always bad. Nothing good will come from going on the water, or worse, IN the water.

Caveat: Unless the campaign is focused around sailing, or trade is important for some reason.

[JAL_1138]

Caveat: Unless the campaign is focused around sailing, or trade is important for some reason.

Oh no. Especially then. Then you can't avoid it. If it's D&D, no matter which edition, water = bad.

[DigoDragon]

I remember one time an exchange between two players. One asked the other if they were sure they wanted to enter the kitchen to a house that was implicitly said to have been trapped for the PC's arrival. But the stubborn second player insisted he check it out, even though I (the GM) was trying to help the first player by describing sounds of soft hissing and an egg-garlic smell coming from the kitchen.

But despite the warnings from his friend, that second PC walked into the kitchen and the inevitable damage roll (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uddrK8EBXBE/U3F4stzj1RI/AAAAAAABZZg/I5oj9ob_XpY/w426-h237/vfxxw2d76may9ywmlps6.gif).

[BWR]

L5R game with two noobs and me and the GM. They heard about the Shadowlands and thought that sounded like fun place to visit. IC (I was playing a Kuni) and OOC I warned them that was a one-way ticket to TPK-ville if we were lucky. They insisted on going anyway and I tagged along because I don't abandon friends, even in stupid situations like that when it would make sense for my character to run. We wiped on the very first encounter, unsurprisingly.

D&D in a wizard's tower. We passed a trapped demon on the way up. It was obviously out of our league and obviously a set piece from the DM to tempt us. We were all good so didn't listen to its promises. We steamrolled all other opposition and the boss went down like a punk, and fully buffed with only a few depletable resources used, everyone else said "Get 'im!", referring to the trapped demon. IC and OOC I said it was a bad idea because it was way more powerful than us. I was outvoted and again I tagged along. Surprisingly, it had only something like 3 hit points left by the time it took out the last of us and had I not eaten a PW: stun in the first round that put me out of action for 14 rounds of 16 possible, we might even have made it with only half the party gone. So as far as TPKs go, that was kind of cool.

[Yora]

Friends don't let friends play kender.

And no, you will not play a thief who secretly is evil and steals from other PCs. You are not the first person who thinks that could be a cool and unique character twist.

[Geddy2112]

Everything above can be summed up as "Friends don't let friends play chaotic stupid." End thread.

[CantigThimble]

Well, friends also don't let friends play LAWFUL stupid characters either. :smallwink:

[Red Fel]

Well, friends also don't let friends play LAWFUL stupid characters either. :smallwink:

Or Stupid Good, or Stupid Evil, or Frustratingly Apathetic Neutral... Yeah. Friends don't let friends be stupid,1 that pretty much covers everything.

1 Unless there's a camera handy. Ideally, alcohol is involved.

[Geddy2112]

Or Stupid Good, or Stupid Evil, or Frustratingly Apathetic Neutral... Yeah. Friends don't let friends be stupid,1 that pretty much covers everything.

1 Unless there's a camera handy. Ideally, alcohol is involved.

People play ttRPG's without alcohol? Friends don't let friends do that.

[ComaVision]

People play ttRPG's without alcohol? Friends don't let friends do that.

The humor in my group is bad enough without alcohol being introduced in to the mix.

[Lord Torath]

Friends don't let friends design magic items while drunk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html).

[comicshorse]

Sleep with the Vampire, no matter how hot she is

[Pluto!]

Play Rifts.

[Jormengand]

Play Rifts.

Play FATAL.

[JAL_1138]

*Play paladins without knowing how the DM reacts to them, because so many DMs have it in for pallys. Regardless of edition.

[Marlowe]

Play a character who is mute, has a speech impediment, or some kind of crippling social disorder.

Every single PbP group seems to have someone who thinks this is a dazzlingly original idea. It's not, and it hardly ever turns out to be a good one.

[goto124]

Sleep with the Vampire, no matter how hot she is

The Succubus, too.

Actually, I still don't understand how succubi work. Is it insta-kill to sleep with a succubus?

[DigoDragon]

Actually, I still don't understand how succubi work. Is it insta-kill to sleep with a succubus?

It was more of a slow, horrific-happy death when I killed a player with one.

[Yora]

Play a character who is mute, has a speech impediment, or some kind of crippling social disorder.

Every single PbP group seems to have someone who thinks this is a dazzlingly original idea. It's not, and it hardly ever turns out to be a good one.

It's another variant of "I am being super creative by not playing together with the other PCs."

[Maglubiyet]

Oh no. Especially then. Then you can't avoid it. If it's D&D, no matter which edition, water = bad.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/Black_Majik/ADD/Monster%20Manual/ADD003MonsterManual064Gar001GiantGa.jpg
Gar, Giant
1e Monster Manual

[Luminestra]

Me and my group were all playing a really insane pathfinder game(we got wishes and our DM is really lenient)

the entire group felt really powerful, so they wanted to take down the abyss because it was the main goal of a party member. We used the dragonballs(one of the players wished for them to exist) to open a permanent, stable portal to hell on the moon. From the start I knew our CL 9ish party didnt stand a chance. I said that too them, but they ignored me. We also had a small army (200 humans, level 1). We go through the portal and barely make it through a few fights before I call a party meeting. I tell them that I could summon the lord of the current layer of the abyss and we could gang up on it to kill it while we still had our army. The party looks at me like I'm insane and then tells me that they plan on levelling up to 20 by killing minions before fighting the first boss.

I tried telling them why it was a bad idea, mainly because there was no guarantee that the DM would let us level to 20 before throwing the boss at us, but none of them would listen, so I sighed and sat back as the party got TPK'd. Well, one player saved his wish and then wished to get out of there(by becoming a planeswalker). I mind swapped with my shoggoth pet at the beginning of the session and then used the shoggoth(in my body) to summon azathoth into the abyss while I teleported away(in the shoggoths body). Then I travelled back in time to steal the wish from the party so that the events never happened. We ended the campaign at that point.

[JAL_1138]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/Black_Majik/ADD/Monster%20Manual/ADD003MonsterManual064Gar001GiantGa.jpg
Gar, Giant
1e Monster Manual


Yyyyuuup. And that's just one. Really, it's a wonder any society in D&D is willing to sail.

[Marlowe]

That last one is a real problem. Do you know how much more efficient sea transport is, even with medieval technology, than land transport? There's a good reason most big cities in real life are built on good harbours and navigatable rivers, and not inland in the middle of plains. Sea routes are what bind civilization together. Connection or separation from them is of major importance to a societies development. Even under the rules, ships move faster than most flyers and sea monsters, are hard to damage, and will get you where you're going much faster and more securely than if you walked, rode, or even flew.

And yet ask a bunch of PCs to get on a ship they start freaking out. It's a bit of a problem. I don't want to start setting all my adventures in some analog to central asia (I've lived in central asia), I don't want to start telling anyone "look, get on a ship or else". But at some point they have to figure out they can't stay away from water forever if they want to get anywhere.

[JAL_1138]

That last one is a real problem. Do you know how much more efficient sea transport is, even with medieval technology, than land transport? There's a good reason most big cities in real life are built on good harbours and navigatable rivers, and not inland in the middle of plains. Sea routes are what bind civilization together. Connection or separation from them is of major importance to a societies development. Even under the rules, ships move faster than most flyers and sea monsters, are hard to damage, and will get you where you're going much faster and more securely than if you walked, rode, or even flew.

And yet ask a bunch of PCs to get on a ship they start freaking out. It's a bit of a problem. I don't want to start setting all my adventures in some analog to central asia (I've lived in central asia), I don't want to start telling anyone "look, get on a ship or else". But at some point they have to figure out they can't stay away from water forever if they want to get anywhere.

And then the ship gets sunk by a dragon turtle, a giant squid, a giant octopus, linnorms, sea wyrms, brine dragons, tun mi lung (typhoon dragons), all sorts of aquatic dinosaurs and other giant fishbeasties, aboleths...and those are just a few of the big ones.

Seriously, it may be faster, but it's pretty much certain death.

EDIT: Would you go on the water when these things are in it?
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/img/squigian.gif
Under the rules, these things can sink a large ship in three turns or so, and stop its movement in one turn. They can drag a small ship under in one round.

[Milo v3]

And then the ship gets sunk by a dragon turtle, a giant squid, a giant octopus, linnorms, sea wyrms, brine dragons, tun mi lung (typhoon dragons), all sorts of aquatic dinosaurs and other giant fishbeasties, aboleths...and those are just a few of the big ones.

Seriously, it may be faster, but it's pretty much certain death.

EDIT: Would you go on the water when these things are in it?
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/img/squigian.gifUnder the rules, these things can sink a ship in three turns or so.

But there are a lot more types of monsters designed for the land than there is in the sea, so that argument sorta breaks down.

[JAL_1138]

But there are a lot more types of monsters designed for the land than there is in the sea, so that argument sorta breaks down.

Yes, and on land you can get away from them and/or fight them effectively if they overturn your wagon.

[TheEmperor]

And then the ship gets sunk by a dragon turtle, a giant squid, a giant octopus, linnorms, sea wyrms, brine dragons, tun mi lung (typhoon dragons), all sorts of aquatic dinosaurs and other giant fishbeasties, aboleths...and those are just a few of the big ones.

Seriously, it may be faster, but it's pretty much certain death.

EDIT: Would you go on the water when these things are in it?
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/img/squigian.gifUnder the rules, these things can sink a ship in three turns or so.

Hell yeah, I would! Aboleths are great mews for my XP counter.

Also, friends don't let their friend DM throw That Damned Crab at the party at the level it's "supposed" to be thrown at the party.

And friends don't let friends betray friend computer. That would treason. Treason is punishable by death. Friend Computer loves you.

[Marlowe]

First off. If your DM is throwing overwhelming encounters at you at sea or on land, that's just the DM being a dirk.

Secondly, most of those things aren't actually as fast as ships are.

Hell, Giant Squids can't even LIVE at surface pressure. You honestly have DMs throw them at you if you are not already at the ocean floor?:smallconfused: Do you also encounter Wendigo during your beach episode?

[JAL_1138]

First off. If your DM is throwing overwhelming encounters at you at sea or on land, that's just the DM being a dirk.

Secondly, most of those things aren't actually as fast as ships are.

Hell, Giant Squids can't even LIVE at surface pressure. You honestly have DMs throw them at you if you are not already at the ocean floor?:smallconfused: Do you also encounter Wendigo during your beach episode?

Hell, a beetle or spider the size of a dog can't breathe in an atmosphere similar to that of present-day Earth. Hell, a dragon can't fly in the same atmosphere either, nor can they breathe fire or lightning or breathe adequately, and kaiju are too big for their bones to support. D&D critters frequently depart from RL logic, particulary the square-cube law and things like water pressure requirements.

Under the AD&D rules, not 3.PF rules, squids are fine at surface pressure, bigger than the ship you're on, attacking ships is their thing, they can stop a large ship from moving, they can sink a small ship entirely in one round no save, and the idea of painstakingly tailoring encounters to character level is a bit foreign. If you go where the big monster is, that's where the big monster is, and you might die or have to flee. And the win condition might be "drive it away," "escape without being seen," or "hurt it enough that it doesn't chase you when you flee."

Also, encounter-balancing logic doesn't apply to the natural world or civilization generally. The monsters aren't looking at ships going "gee, I guess I can't attack that ship because there aren't any adventurers of high enough level on it."

[Maglubiyet]

In a Runequest game long ago, my friends tried to convince me to let the henchman open the final, inscribed door instead of me. The greedy b*stard wanted an increase in pay to do it, though, so I said no way.

If he dies, you won't have to pay him anything, they said. But for some reason I wouldn't listen. To this day I'm not sure why...maybe I was trying RP it (?), maybe I was bored, or maybe I really was just that stupid.

Anyway, I kicked the door open only to have my soul burned out by a spirit. So yeah, if the henchman agrees to do the dangerous job for more cash, agree to pay him. Odds are you won't have to in the end.

[JAL_1138]

Never forget to bring a 10ft pole, iron spikes, a hammer, a hatchet, a grappling hook, a shovel, a dagger, a club (in a pinch you can break the 10ft pole into four 2'6" clubs, depending on the DM), one or more torches, a flint-and-steel, some dry tinder, at least one flask of oil, waterskins, a cooking pot, iron-or-trail rations, bag of flour, bag of sand, a few sheets of paper, charcoal, chalk, several sacks, a bedroll, at least one healing potion, at least one potion of cure disease, and 50 to 100ft of rope.

[Milo v3]

Friends don't let friends drink with maenads... unless they're dwarves.

[JAL_1138]

Friends don't let friends drink with maenads... unless they're dwarves.

Friends don't let friends drink anything but identified potions and water from their own waterskins that has been treated by Purify Water.

[Centik]

And then the ship gets sunk by a dragon turtle, a giant squid, a giant octopus, linnorms, sea wyrms, brine dragons, tun mi lung (typhoon dragons), all sorts of aquatic dinosaurs and other giant fishbeasties, aboleths...and those are just a few of the big ones.

Don't forget my personal favorite, "The Shipwrecker Crab"! 50 ft. and 6000 lbs. of shipwrecking nightmare fuel.

http://readingwritingrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/big-crab.jpg

[Townopolis]

If sea monsters are just up and destroying ships with any regularity, why do people

Spend the large amounts of money required to build ships?
Devote entire towns to servicing ships and receiving naval trade?
Agree to work on ships in the first place?


I mean, if it's a matter of "Land: goblins attack your caraven. Water: your boat gets sunk" then nobody's ever going to invest into sea travel. If there are people commissioning, building, and crewing ships, then either

It isn't that much more dangerous than land travel.
People in your world are literally insane and/or complete and utter morons.


People just don't go on journeys if they don't think they have a good chance of fending off whatever threats come their way, so either giant squid aren't common, tend to stick to known hunting grounds, or can be fended off with the ship's anti-squid measures (the ones it never leaves port without).

Edit: Oh, and friends don't let friends play any character with a negative CON modifier.

[ZeroGear]

Plus, not all waters are as dangerous as most make them out to be. Sure the D&D world has monsters, but odds are that the big nasties won't attack you unless you get way out to sea. Plus, ships that usually sail that far, or sail into known dangerous waters, tend to have several security mages, archers, and siege weapon teams on board just i case.
--

Also, friends don't let friends bull rush gelatinous cubes.

[Marlowe]

In terms of the rules, ships are mobile fortresses that can pack fairly impressive firepower and outrun many of the scary monsters and even a lot of the flyers. They're also a lot tougher than you imagine. A vehical built to survive ocean swells for months at a time simply isn't going to be fragile in the slightest.

In terms of common sense, you simply can't have the manufacturing economy implied by the equipment lists in the D&D books without sea travel. You just can't. Unless commerce in your setting is done by high-level wizards teleporting everything everywhere, you need sea commerce to get the resources to the places that build things and then the manufactured goods to the places that are buying them.

Land travel with pre-industrial technology is simply too slow, inefficient, costly and dangerous to do this in anything like the required bulk. Without sea travel you don't have civilisation on the scale most campaigns need.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2002/12/19/episode-227-biology-101-rm-style/

[Jay R]

But there are a lot more types of monsters designed for the land than there is in the sea, so that argument sorta breaks down.

Yes, but when I fight them in their lairs, I'm allowed to breathe.

[JAL_1138]

Yes, but when I fight them in their lairs, I'm allowed to breathe.

And I don't sink straight to the bottom if I'm wearing medium or heavy armor and a shield. And more weapon types work worth a darn.

[JAL_1138]

In terms of the rules, ships are mobile fortresses that can pack fairly impressive firepower and outrun many of the scary monsters and even a lot of the flyers. They're also a lot tougher than you imagine. A vehical built to survive ocean swells for months at a time simply isn't going to be fragile in the slightest.

In terms of common sense, you simply can't have the manufacturing economy implied by the equipment lists in the D&D books without sea travel. You just can't. Unless commerce in your setting is done by high-level wizards teleporting everything everywhere, you need sea commerce to get the resources to the places that build things and then the manufactured goods to the places that are buying them.

Land travel with pre-industrial technology is simply too slow, inefficient, costly and dangerous to do this in anything like the required bulk. Without sea travel you don't have civilisation on the scale most campaigns need.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2002/12/19/episode-227-biology-101-rm-style/

And according to the AD&D rules, a giant squid can catch one (and is fast enough to do so) and drag it down to the bottom in one turn no save if it's a small ship, or stop a larger ship's movement in one turn of dragging and crush its hull in three rounds. I feel like a bit of a broken record here. The rules allow them to catch and sink ships. It's right there in the Monstrous Compendium/Manual entry under "combat."

AD&D sea monsters are apparently meaner than their later versions.

[Marlowe]

Yeah, that's the kind of "Let's make everything, especially mundane activities, stupidly dangerous at whatever cost to versimilitude" approach that made people back in the day not want to play D&D.


DM: OK, decyphering the notes you recovered from the cultist HQ, you may now surmise that the Necromancer Kaet Ol'son is going to use the Shroud of Fredan'Wilma to carrying out the forbidden ritual of Gari'Shandling at the Black Pyramid of Gnashvill in ten days time, giving him control of all undead in the world--

Player 1: Gosh. That doesn't sound good.

Player 2: We must thwart him! Where is this place?

DM: Just across the Gulf. Maybe three days sail and another day sailing upriver--

Player 2: SHIPS ARE SUICIDE! We'll go by land.

DM:-but that means going all the way around the Gulf, across the Mountains of Inconvenience, the Desert of Horrible Dead Things Walking Around, and the Swamp That Sucks To An Amzing Degree. It'll take weeks if not months--

Player 2: SHIPS ARE SUICIDE!

DM: But you're in a port city. Dozens of ships come and go every day. Most of your NPC contacts are connected with maritime activities. Most of what you're wearing and carrying was either imported by sea or made of materials that were---

Player 3: SHIPS ARE SUICIDE! There's like; big stuff in water!

DM: ...fine

[Three game weeks, 42 random encounters, two avalanches, three sandstorms, and a Rogue drowned in the swamp later, the PCs are stopped in a random village in the middle of Nowhere (it's in Arkansas).]

Random NPC: Hey, strange, confused travellers! Have you heard? The Necromancer Kaet Ol'son was thwarted in his plans of world domination by a group of adventurers like you, only less hydrophobic. They captured all his treasure and they're heroes!

Player 1: But that was OUR quest...

DM: WAS! No way in hell you were getting there in time; I wasn't going to have my villain sitting around for months for you lot to get there, and I'm not having my setting destroyed because you guys are afraid of getting wet. So I resolved it without you. You lot need a new quest....[PAUSE] A tiny girl approaches and tells you her puppy has gone missing...

[Jay R]

Friends don't let friends use a Deck of Many Things.

[Milo v3]

Yes, but when I fight them in their lairs, I'm allowed to breathe.

Aquatic monsters can have lairs just as much as land monsters...

[Pluto!]

[Three game weeks, 42 random encounters, two avalanches, three sandstorms, and a Rogue drowned in the swamp later, the PCs are stopped in a random village in the middle of Nowhere (it's in Arkansas).]

Clearly our intrepid heroes aren't hydrophobic enough. :smalltongue:

[JAL_1138]

Clearly our intrepid heroes aren't hydrophobic enough. :smalltongue:

Exactly! The minute they got near water, one of them died. Even in the example meant to prove they shouldn't believe water = bad.

In D&D, literally going to hell to fight devils is safer than going near water.

[Marlowe]

...or it could remind you that more people drown on "land" than drown at sea.:smallsigh:

[JAL_1138]

...or it could remind you that more people drown on "land" than drown at sea.:smallsigh:

I've never contended that it's only oceans that are deadly. Oceans are deadly, but so are rivers, lakes, ponds, streams, pools, and oh ye gods don't mess with underground versions thereof...

Admittedly, "navigable" was not inclusive enough a choice of words.

Is it water deeper than your head? Bad.

Is it water deeper than your waist? Bad.

Is it water deeper than your ankles? Bad.

Is it water that did not come out of your personal waterskin, the contents of which have been first boiled and then treated via Purify Food & Drink and which do not register to Detect Magic, Detect Poison or Detect Evil (and on which you may want to cast Remove Curse to be on the safe side)...? Bad.

[goto124]

Trouble is, the party doesn't trust the DM enough to not cause a TPK just because they went to sea.

Is it really that easy to accidentally kill everyone just by setting encounters on the ship? Heck, the DM could've handwaved the entire sea journey and jump straight to land - 'Okay, you pay [some amount of] gold to board a ship. 2 days later, you arrive at Portcity...'

[ZeroGear]

Counter point:
I ran a naval campaign where the world was filled with little islands and had ocean in-between (think One Piece). Nothing bad ever happened at sea, and there was enough space on deck to conduct battles without trouble (and enough handholds to climb out of the water if you got knocked overboard).

This attitude is more of a result of the DM being mean (and possibly underwater rules being poorly written) than it has to do with the actual deadliness of actual ocean travel. So much so that it has developed a stigma among players. (This reminds me of the whole "let's steal the door" problem I'm faced with consistently)
-----

To contribute:
-Friends don't let friends play characters bigger than Large.
-Friends don't let friends play casters with more HP than the fighter.
-Friends don't let friends play necromancer healers.
-Friends don't let friends get eaten every-other encounter.
-Friends don't let friends break game systems.

[Marlowe]

I've never contended that it's only oceans that are deadly. Oceans are deadly, but so are rivers, lakes, ponds, streams, pools, and oh ye gods don't mess with underground versions thereof...

Admittedly, "navigable" was not inclusive enough a choice of words.

Is it water deeper than your head? Bad.

Is it water deeper than your waist? Bad.

Is it water deeper than your ankles? Bad.

Is it water that did not come out of your personal waterskin, the contents of which have been first boiled and then treated via Purify Food & Drink and which do not register to Detect Magic, Detect Poison or Detect Evil (and on which you may want to cast Remove Curse to be on the safe side)...? Bad.

JAL, I'm getting the strong suspicion that in your games, the only safe course of action is to never leave your room, eat only everlasting rations, and drink only your own purified urine.:smallbiggrin:

[JAL_1138]

JAL, I'm getting the strong suspicion that in your games, the only safe course of action is to never leave your room, eat only everlasting rations, and drink only your own purified urine.:smallbiggrin:

Your room?! My gods, man, that's just as dangerous! That pile of laundry in the corner? Ragamoffyn. The cover on your bed? Sheet phantom. The chest at the foot of your bed? Mimic. The floor? Trapper. The ceiling? Lurker. The walls? Living Walls. The specks of mold here and there? Brown mold. The fire in the fireplace? Fire Snake or Hearth Fiend. The mirror on the wall? There's a Fetch in it.

[ZeroGear]

JAL, I know you're exaggerating to be funny...but I pity anyone who winds up with you as a DM.
----------

-Friends don't let friends mind control other PCs
-Friends don't let friends own animal companions with class levels
-Friends don't let friends put themselves under the control of a succubus
-Friends don't let friends throw corpses out the window, especially on stealth missions

[Marlowe]

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/dieselpunk.jpg

[JAL_1138]

JAL, I know you're exaggerating to be funny...but I pity anyone who winds up with you as a DM.
----------

-Friends don't let friends mind control other PCs
-Friends don't let friends own animal companions with class levels
-Friends don't let friends put themselves under the control of a succubus
-Friends don't let friends throw corpses out the window, especially on stealth missions

Oh, I'm certainly exaggerating about the room. Hence the bluetext.

The water = bad stuff? That comes from player experience, not from being an evil DM. Though admittedly I'm slightly evil, I'm not THAT evil.

As a player, though? Every time I go near water, something horrible happens to my character. Regardless of who's DMing. And regardless of edition.

2e? Too many deaths to count, be it from water weirds, disease, giant sea monsters like the squids and others, drowning, sahuagin, lizardmen, Ixitschacan'tpronounceit, morkorths, aboleths, hags, swans, drowning...oy.

3e? Didn't play too much, but failed a swim check and drowned, plus a few deaths to water monsters.

4e? Killed by a kaiju on a bridge the first time the party got near any large body of water.

5e? In league play, no less? The first time I got near water? Cursed by an angry sea-goddess with an indelible tattoo that can't be hidden by any means, which is a real problem for a charlatan bard.

EDIT:

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/dieselpunk.jpg
Sadly, I am not the lich of Howard Hughes and can't provide a seaplane. That comic is awesome though :smallbiggrin:

[ZeroGear]

The water = bad stuff? That comes from player experience, not from being an evil DM. Though admittedly I'm slightly evil, I'm not THAT evil.

As a player, though? Every time I go near water, something horrible happens to my character. Regardless of who's DMing. And regardless of edition.

2e? Too many deaths to count, be it from water weirds, disease, giant sea monsters like the squids and others, drowning, sahuagin, lizardmen, Ixitschacan'tpronounceit, morkorths, aboleths, hags, swans, drowning...oy.

3e? Didn't play too much, but failed a swim check and drowned, plus a few deaths to water monsters.

4e? Killed by a kaiju on a bridge the first time the party got near any large body of water.

5e? In league play, no less? The first time I got near water? Cursed by an angry sea-goddess with an indelible tattoo that can't be hidden by any means, which is a real problem for a charlatan bard.



Maybe your characters are just plain cursed to die near water? Or maybe the world has it out for you.

[JAL_1138]

Maybe your characters are just plain cursed to die near water? Or maybe the world has it out for you.

In AD&D alone, I lost fewer characters getting through the Tomb of Horrors, or going to the Nine Hells, the Grey Wastes, Carceri, and the Abyss in Planescape, or in the Domain of Dread, than I lost to water-related incidents in vanilla adventuring. And I lost a lot of characters in the Tomb of Horrors and in Ravenloft. Not so many in hell, surprisingly enough.

[Marlowe]

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/sol1.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/sol2.jpg
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/sol3.jpg

[icefractal]

-Friends don't let friends throw corpses out the window, especially on stealth missionsBut what if it was the window ... of a ship! Two wrongs would make a right! Well, porthole technically, but close enough.

Also ...
Friends don't let friends play casters with more HP than the fighter.That one is surprisingly likely to happen, without any special effort. I'm not even talking about stuff like FMI - if you've got a Cleric/Oracle that's more of a pure-caster type and doesn't go into melee, Con is quite possibly their second-highest stat. Compare with a warrior that's prioritizing Str and Dex above it, and only has a 1/level difference from HD, and there you go.

[ZeroGear]

Also ...That one is surprisingly likely to happen, without any special effort. I'm not even talking about stuff like FMI - if you've got a Cleric/Oracle that's more of a pure-caster type and doesn't go into melee, Con is quite possibly their second-highest stat. Compare with a warrior that's prioritizing Str and Dex above it, and only has a 1/level difference from HD, and there you go.

Let me add to that:

-Friends don't let friends create blood mages
-Friends don't let friends set Con as their casting stat
-Friends don't let friends play casters named 'Richard'
-Friends don't let friends play caster with d6 HD that have more HP than the fighters
-Friends don't let friends play casters with an AC of 10 and 70 HP at 5th level
-Friends don't let friends play casters that substitute HP for armor

We were testing a new casting system for Pathfinder, and I made the mistake of letting one of the players play a Blood Mage (casting tradition basically). He specced himself as both a necromancer and a healer (another something I should not have allowed) with almost all of his stat points dumped into Constitution. I had encounters where this guy got shot full of arrows by goblins, chewed on by tigers, and even swallowed by a t-rex, but nothing could ever knock him into negatives (I only put him into negatives twice) because he would just heal up all the damage inflicted each turn. It's not that things couldn't hit him, it's that he had so many hit points that he would be fine, even if he was turned into a walking pincushion.
I know that a DM is not supposed to have it in for his players, but it gets frustrating when all your preparations get ignored and murdered without the characters expending that many resources, the reanimating your casters undead wands and throwing them back in your face.

[Jay R]

I've never contended that it's only oceans that are deadly. Oceans are deadly, but so are rivers, lakes, ponds, streams, pools, and oh ye gods don't mess with underground versions thereof...

Admittedly, "navigable" was not inclusive enough a choice of words.

Is it water deeper than your head? Bad.

Is it water deeper than your waist? Bad.

Is it water deeper than your ankles? Bad.

Is it water that did not come out of your personal waterskin, the contents of which have been first boiled and then treated via Purify Food & Drink and which do not register to Detect Magic, Detect Poison or Detect Evil (and on which you may want to cast Remove Curse to be on the safe side)...? Bad.

There's a reason we always meet in taverns instead of drinking from the town well.

[Bard1cKnowledge]

Friends do not let friends who play as the BDFG *stealth* away from the group and let him shoot multiple arrows at a guy in a glowing circle, killing him and completing the ritual, thus summoning two wendigos after the party shouted ooc "NO!" when he announced his attack without informing the party, who had a witch who might not have had dispel magic, about the guy in a robe chanting.

Long story short

Friends don't let friends play as the BDFG or as an arcane spellcaster that doesn't know dispel magic

[Leon]

No, seriously, Monk isn't a good class.

Yes, I'm sure. Try the unarmed Swordsage instead.

I know it's not called Monk. You can call it a Monk if it makes you happy but seriously don't play the Monk class.

OK, have fun with your Monk :smallannoyed:

Show us on the doll where the Monk touched you.

[Milo v3]

Show us on the doll where the Monk touched you.

Well... He tried to, but it looked like he was just flailing his arms around over and over and never ended up hitting.

[JAL_1138]

Sort of like 2e monks without the Complete Ninja's Handbook or Oriental Adventures then. If you used the PHB unarmed combat tables (or the Complete Fighter's tables, iirc) they were pretty awful.

Edit: 2e Monk with Complete Ninja? Pretty darn good.

[Menace]

Well the one i remember. Warhammer FRP second edition.

Dwarf: Hey, is this book worth something ? Its got pretty arrows on the cover ?
Me (Wizard apprentice): <looks at star of chaos> No i really think you should throw it away
Dwarf: Srsly ? It's propably worth much, so i'll keep it
Me: I'd REALLY prefer if you threw it away. Or burned it.
Dwarf: Well, ok... <keeps it regardless>

[DigoDragon]

I had learned of an incident once where an astronaut nearly drowned by water. In space.

PC fears of water were somewhat reasonable in my past as a GM. Something about mixing underwater and the undead creeped many of them. XD

[hifidelity2]

That last one is a real problem. Do you know how much more efficient sea transport is, even with medieval technology, than land transport? There's a good reason most big cities in real life are built on good harbours and navigatable rivers, and not inland in the middle of plains. Sea routes are what bind civilization together. Connection or separation from them is of major importance to a societies development. Even under the rules, ships move faster than most flyers and sea monsters, are hard to damage, and will get you where you're going much faster and more securely than if you walked, rode, or even flew.

And yet ask a bunch of PCs to get on a ship they start freaking out. It's a bit of a problem. I don't want to start setting all my adventures in some analog to central asia (I've lived in central asia), I don't want to start telling anyone "look, get on a ship or else". But at some point they have to figure out they can't stay away from water forever if they want to get anywhere.
I never force my PC's onto the water - its just the quickest way to get from A-B
If you assume 20-30 miles a day on land (or less over mountain etc) to 100-150 by sea then it makes sense
Also if you want to carry any from of cargo in bulk then it has to be by water - they built all the canals in the UK because it dropped the cost of freight right down

[Marlowe]

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/ocean.jpg

[Bard1cKnowledge]

Friends do not shove JAL into a puddle or any form of unpurified water

[Hawkstar]

Friends do not shove JAL into a puddle or any form of unpurified waterHe's more than capable of getting killed by it without help. :smalltongue:


Let me add to that:

-Friends don't let friends create blood mages
-Friends don't let friends set Con as their casting stat
-Friends don't let friends play casters named 'Richard'
-Friends don't let friends play caster with d6 HD that have more HP than the fighters
-Friends don't let friends play casters with an AC of 10 and 70 HP at 5th level
-Friends don't let friends play casters that substitute HP for armor

We were testing a new casting system for Pathfinder, and I made the mistake of letting one of the players play a Blood Mage (casting tradition basically). He specced himself as both a necromancer and a healer (another something I should not have allowed) with almost all of his stat points dumped into Constitution. I had encounters where this guy got shot full of arrows by goblins, chewed on by tigers, and even swallowed by a t-rex, but nothing could ever knock him into negatives (I only put him into negatives twice) because he would just heal up all the damage inflicted each turn. It's not that things couldn't hit him, it's that he had so many hit points that he would be fine, even if he was turned into a walking pincushion.
I know that a DM is not supposed to have it in for his players, but it gets frustrating when all your preparations get ignored and murdered without the characters expending that many resources, the reanimating your casters undead wands and throwing them back in your face.My 13th Age group is having a similar problem with my Spellfist Sorcerer, who I envisioned as an ancient guardian. I think I'm going to help the DM look at his weaknesses to work around them without having to go straight for the Direct Mind Control route (Because his most obvious weakness is a mental defense of 10)

[JAL_1138]

He's more than capable of getting killed by it without help. :smalltongue:

...this is entirely true.

*******

Believe it or not, I'm not afraid of water at all IRL. Just in RPGs.

[Telonius]

Friends don't let casters walk past an undamaged statue.

[JAL_1138]

Friends don't let friends use the THAC0 formula to solve for target number the way the book suggests, instead of the much simpler "THAC0 - (roll+bonuses) = lowest AC you hit" or "(THAC0-bonuses) - roll = lowest AC you hit" versions that don't require knowing the enemy's AC.

[TheEmperor]

Friends don't let friends play Frenzied Berzerkers, unless they're going solo, or have the ability to calm the Hulk down.

[Bard1cKnowledge]

Friends do not let friends have the cursed rouge who rolls poorly borrow any mor d6's until he can roll above a 7 on his d20 five times in a row

[goto124]

Friends don't let friends play Frenzied Berzerkers, unless they're going solo, or have the ability to calm the Hulk down.

I read a special build for the Frenzied Berserkers, that makes her weapon count as a creature. Thus, when all enemies are dead, the Berserker starts chewing and punching the nine hells out of her weapon, until the frenzy wears off. I personally think it's the best and most fun solution to the frenzied-attack-your-friends problem.

[Marlowe]

...this is entirely true.

*******

Believe it or not, I'm not afraid of water at all IRL. Just in RPGs.

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/melting.jpg

[Uncle Pine]

Friends don't let Cleric friends prepare Cure X Wounds.

Friends don't let friends cast a spell in melee without rolling Concentration to avoid AoOs.

Friends don't let friends test the half-broken wooden bridge suspended on a river and instead offer their bear companion as a ferry.
Friends don't let friends traverse first the aforementioned river. Instead, friends go first and single-handedly kill the giant eel hidden in the river. Even if they're a Commoner whose only weapon is a cursed sword. Especially if they're a Commoner whose only weapon is a cursed sword.

Friends don't let friends waste their time while others take more than 45 minutes mid-session to sell a single scale mail. Instead, they engage in friendly PvP to hone their combat skills and strategies.

[JAL_1138]

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo121/Joncharlesspencer/melting.jpg

*Pffffff* I lol'd. That happened to a PC of mine when I mistook Green Slime for pond scum, very early in my adventuring career. (Pond scum photosynthesizes and does not live underground in lightless caves, so I should have seen that coming, but I didn't know what Green Slime was at the time.) The character's last words were, indeed, "I'm melting, melting, oh what a world, what a world..."

EDIT:


Friends don't let friends traverse first the aforementioned river. Instead, friends go first and single-handedly kill the giant eel hidden in the river.

I reiterate: water = bad.

[hewhosaysfish]

Well the one i remember. Warhammer FRP second edition.

Dwarf: Hey, is this book worth something ? Its got pretty arrows on the cover ?
Me (Wizard apprentice): <looks at star of chaos> No i really think you should throw it away
Dwarf: Srsly ? It's propably worth much, so i'll keep it
Me: I'd REALLY prefer if you threw it away. Or burned it.
Dwarf: Well, ok... <keeps it regardless>

Don't eat the Chaos Horse.

I wasn't a player in the campaign where someone ate the Chaos Horse but I *was* in the next WFRP campaign that the same group played. And by then "Don't eat the Chaos Horse" had very much become a proverb. It's even started showing up in other RPGs.

[goto124]

May I ask, what 'don't eat the chaos horse' means? I googled and got nothing...

[Leon]

One would hazard a guess that someone thought eating the Horse that was warped by the Powers of Chaos was a good idea.

Ive had similar experiences with groups and Dire Boar and Radioactive Wolf (i was a player in the Wolf case)


As to thing a Friend doesn't let a friend do: Get suckered in by the Tier System

[Marlowe]

May I ask, what 'don't eat the chaos horse' means? I googled and got nothing... I could understand "Don't ride the chaos STEED" ('cause, y'know, that's what they're called and because that's a coherent metaphor) but I'm lost too.

[GrayGriffin]

Friends don't let friends keep jumping in front of every single attack.

[Bard1cKnowledge]

Friends do not let friends get into arguments about fictional characters and the willingness of them for a frozen dessert covered in chocolate.

[chainer1216]

Friends don't let friends:

Attempt to pickpocket the over prepared, over zealous town guard

Walk through an ancient permanancied teleportation circle.

Attempt to grapple the Kraken

Charge into battle when they have over 3x the movement speed of other PCs

Help the PC who saw a room full of vampire cultists and shouted "let's kill 'em for XP!" IN CHARACTER!

[Slipperychicken]

Friends don't let friends:


Split the party in a danger zone
Open or use anything in a dungeon without checking it for traps (and scanning it detect magic, if applicable)
Handle treasure without protection (i.e. mage hand, tongs)
Buy magical items without confirming their authenticity
Believe NPCs without rolling insight/sense motive beforehand.
Take a woman anyone to bed before she's confirmed to not be a succubus (or other malign shapechanger)
Trust NPC ladies found in a danger zone (especially if the GM mentions that she's young and attractive)
Adventure without a 10ft pole, rope, grappling hook, backup weapon, towel, or other necessities.





Friends do not let friends get into arguments about fictional characters and the willingness of them for a frozen dessert covered in chocolate.

We have a word for that. It's called roleplaying :smallbiggrin:

[NRSASD]

Friends Don't Let Friends:

Spend the night in jail to avoid paying inn prices
Test if a wall is an illusion by running at it while blindfolded
Handle anything found in the evil priest's chambers with their bare hands under ANY circumstances
Tell malevolent deities/demons their names
Carry out suicide bombings while wearing a ring of trollish regeneration
Accidentally turn your entire home city into undead because you told the God of Death where you lived

*all actual incidents sadly

[Hawkstar]

Friends do not let friends get into arguments about fictional characters and the willingness of them for a frozen dessert covered in chocolate.We are not friends! :smalltongue:


... Sorry, I couldn't resist. That's a quote the Necromancer/Priestess of Wee Jas threw at my ancient guardian robot after he incinerated a 10-year-old orphan.