Guide to making being blind practical (?)

[Jowgen]

So, lots of people love the "blind badass" archetype, but it's not the easiest thing to make playable, let alone worthwhile. The only up-side to being blind is being immune to gazes, patterns and a few select other effects.

The Blinded condition Imposes:
a) - 2AC
b) Denied dex
c) move at half-speed
d) -4 on Search and "most Str/Dex based checks"
e) Auto-fail checks that rely on vision (e.g. Spot, reading)
f) Everyone else has 50% concealment

So the idea here is to figure out how to get rid/overcome most of these penalties in an efficient manner.

Basic approaches I know:

1) Uncanny Dodge. Lets keep Dex to AC. Doesn't get rid of -2 Penalty.

2) Blind-fight. Reduces the movement penalties and helps mitigate miss-chances.

3) Special senses. Blind-sight and Touchsight (if psionics are allowed) are the only ones I know of that overcome concealment as well as pin-point. Main problems are Darkstalker, the very limited range (30 usually, rarely 60 or higher), and a lack of clarity on some of the finer points of how impaired a blind character with blind/touch-sight really is.

3) Optimize Listen. Massive checks let you pinpoint at arbitrarily large range, no line of effect required. Keen Eared Scout makes pinpointing easier and lets you discern a lot of extra information from sounds. Echo rules may allow for DareDevil type "vision" depending (see short discussion here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?416152-Echo-rules-weird-interactions-creating-DareDevil)). A custom continuous item of Listening Lorecall can yield cheap-ish blindsense-30 & blindsight-15 depending on listen ranks. Main problems are incorporeal creatures, magical Silence, and the fact that it doesn't overcome any of the actual blindness penalties.

4) The "Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them" clause from the Blinded condition description. This is obviously very non-specific, provides no mechanical information, and I don't know of any written examples of when this actually happening.


So, does anyone else know of anything that could help make this arche-type more viable? If we can get a good list going, I might make this into a handbook/guide (although my sig is running out of character space...). :smallsmile:

[LudicSavant]

So, lots of people love the "blind badass" archetype, but it's not the easiest thing to make playable, let alone worthwhile. The only up-side to being blind is being immune to gazes, patterns and a few select other effects.

The Blinded condition Imposes:
a) - 2AC
b) Denied dex
c) move at half-speed
d) -4 on Search and "most Str/Dex based checks"
e) Auto-fail checks that rely on vision (e.g. Spot, reading)
f) Everyone else has 50% concealment

So the idea here is to figure out how to get rid/overcome most of these penalties in an efficient manner.

Basic approaches I know:

1) Uncanny Dodge. Lets keep Dex to AC. Doesn't get rid of -2 Penalty.

2) Blind-fight. Reduces the movement penalties and helps mitigate miss-chances.

3) Special senses. Blind-sight and Touchsight (if psionics are allowed) are the only ones I know of that overcome concealment as well as pin-point. Main problems are Darkstalker, the very limited range (30 usually, rarely 60 or higher), and a lack of clarity on some of the finer points of how impaired a blind character with blind/touch-sight really is.

3) Optimize Listen. Massive checks let you pinpoint at arbitrarily large range, no line of effect required. Keen Eared Scout makes pinpointing easier and lets you discern a lot of extra information from sounds. Echo rules may allow for DareDevil type "vision" depending (see short discussion here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?416152-Echo-rules-weird-interactions-creating-DareDevil)). A custom continuous item of Listening Lorecall can yield cheap-ish blindsense-30 & blindsight-15 depending on listen ranks. Main problems are incorporeal creatures, magical Silence, and the fact that it doesn't overcome any of the actual blindness penalties.

4) The "Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them" clause from the Blinded condition description. This is obviously very non-specific, provides no mechanical information, and I don't know of any written examples of when this actually happening.


So, does anyone else know of anything that could help make this arche-type more viable? If we can get a good list going, I might make this into a handbook/guide (although my sig is running out of character space...). :smallsmile:

Try a Blindfold of True Darkness from the MiC, which gives you very potent sensory powers at the cost of blindness and a very affordable gold cost. If you're already blind there's no penalty. Then grab something like an Eversmoking Flask or some similar thing that destroys the competence of people who rely on eyes and go nuts. You can hit them but they can't hit you, even with True Sight.

Enjoy being The Other Team's Lee Sin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjo1x7Y1v3s#t=0m25s).

[AvatarVecna]

Get a custom item that gives you a continuous, reset-able divination spell (of some sort) that lets you remotely view another location; since this is a magic vision, you shouldn't need actual vision to get the image into your brain. Finding a way to make this work with the DM could be fun.

Alternatively, you could optimize Listen to literally epic levels and take Quick Reconnoiter (free action Listen check 1/round); that should let you pinpoint everything around you by sound, like a poor man's ecolocation. According to the epic rules for Listen, if you beat the "invisible" target's Move Silently check by 20, yo poinpoint their location; if they're not trying to move silently at all, then their "Move Silently" total is probably about on par with "an active battle" in terms of how hard it is to hear (that is to say, DC -10). Thus, pinpointing their location should be a DC 10 Listen check. You only really have to optimize your Listen check if someone's actually trying to sneak up on you.

EDIT: And that's what I get for not reading the whole OP: Ninja'd.

[Ruethgar]

The easiest would be to get that arcane sight alteration from DMGII. It is meant for NPCs but I'm sure many a DM would allow it for flavor. AFB atm.

[Unusual Muse]

The easiest way would be to have a 5th-level cleric cast Remove Blindness on you.

[soapdude]

The easiest way would be to have a 5th-level cleric cast Remove Blindness on you.

This.

Why do people always want to make a practical blind character? Not being able to see should be a handicap, not just flavor that you can write off at a whim.

And why is it always blind? Where are all the "Making a practical deaf character" and "Paraplegic barbarians should be just as capable as fully-abled characters" threads?

[Disclaimer: I am not trying to be disparaging against anyone who actually has such a disability. But for those of you that do, think of how hard you have had to work to overcome it. I don't think it should just be written off as something that lets you do something else super well.]

[Red Fel]

This.

Why do people always want to make a practical blind character? Not being able to see should be a handicap, not just flavor that you can write off at a whim.

Agreed.

I like the blind badass archetype. In media. Zatoichi is awesome. He is also a terrible model for a D&D/PF character. Particularly when there are spells specifically designed to remove all but the most stubborn forms of blindness, it is both impractical and foolish to doggedly refuse to regain your sight.

Now, building a character who can function while blinded, if he has to, is another thing altogether. But that's not what people want - they want the blind swordsman, the blind martial artist, the blind archer. And my response to that, as a GM, is simple. You can do it if you want to, and I'll try to give you the opportunity to stay relevant, but I won't give you any freebies just because you chose to handicap your character.

As to how to make a blind character practical? You basically have three options. Do things that are not dependent on sight. If your spells are all Magic Missile, such that they never miss, or if your skills are almost exclusively social, such that sight is (mostly, but not entirely) irrelevant, your character's functionality is mostly unimpeded. Getting around will still be a pain, but you can make do. Come up with alternatives to sight. Scent, Mindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense, there are plenty of non-visual forms of "sight." They won't be as useful, but you can make do. Cure your blindness. If your eyes are defective, there's a spell for that; if they're missing, there's a spell for that, too. Get rid of it.
I'm loathe to say that a given idea is a "bad" character concept. But the fact is that, as a rule, a character cannot simultaneously say "I'm blind" and "I'm also an awesome warrior," any more than he can say, for example, "I have no arms nor spindly appendages to speak of," and "I'm a world-class grappler." (Snakes excepted, of course.) You can find ways to be functional, but not ways to be great. It just doesn't work.

[Telonius]

If you're trying to make a "practical" blind character, you're going to end up with what's (essentially) a character who has nonfunctional eyes but almost none of the usual drawbacks of being blinded; and you'll have jumped through probably a dozen mechanical hoops to do that. You might as well just give it to them as a template. (It's a bit too powerful for a feat).

Blindsighted
This template can be added to any creature that normally has eyes. Your character's eyes do not function, but you suffer none of the usual effects of blindness. You can "see" creatures by using your other senses by using the Spot skill, as normal. If you have at least five ranks in Listen, this provides a +2 Synergy bonus to Spot checks. Natural or magical darkness does not impose any penalty on your ability to detect creatures. If your race normally has the Light Blindness or Light Sensitivity quality, you no longer take penalties for being exposed to sudden bright light. You are immune to Gaze attacks, as well as any illusion that relies on exclusively visual displays. You cannot read normal writing. A character with this template cannot find a Glyph spell using the Search skill, even if they have the Trapfinding ability.
LA +1

[Jowgen]

I don't actually want to play a blind character myself, so my reason for starting this thread is two-fold.

First, I've seen the question and common suggestions crop up every once in a while, and thought it would be useful to put it all together. For anyone who really likes the flavour or ends up with a blind character that can't be fixed, a collection of means to make one playable might be handy.

Second, I like the challenge. Much of the game is reliant on vision as opposed to hearing; so being able to make a character who can get by -or maybe even excel- while being deprived of this basic ability feels like an achievement to me.

[Story]

The easiest would be to get that arcane sight alteration from DMGII. It is meant for NPCs but I'm sure many a DM would allow it for flavor. AFB atm.

Where is this? I can't find it.

Edit: Perhaps you mean Doomwatcher? Because that has +4 LA and doesn't explicitly counteract blindness anyway.

[Ettina]

Keep in mind that it says that some those penalties are overcome if you've been blind a long time. And then doesn't give any details.

[Mehangel]

Well if pathfinder psionics is allowed, one could have a custom continuous Synesthete (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/s/synesthete) item which would allow a blind person to negate all the penalties of blindness, while still gaining all the perks..

[danzibr]

Regarding the willful blindness, in the newest Zatoichi movie this is the case (granted I prefer the older movies).

[darkbuu_1]

I wouldn't exactly call it practical but if you can find a reliable way of blinding other people, five levels of Shadow Sun Ninja will solve most of your problems.

[Pluto!]

Does staying home count?

[Gnaeus]

Well if pathfinder psionics is allowed, one could have a custom continuous Synesthete (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/s/synesthete) item which would allow a blind person to negate all the penalties of blindness, while still gaining all the perks..

If pathfinder is allowed, my first choice will be Oracle. My second choice is Dragon Disciple, which gets blind sense for free and Blind Fighting as a bonus feat.

[Tvtyrant]

Does staying home count?

Only if we are playing scholars and schoolboys.