A Paladin Teaching a Wizard... What?

[LoyalPaladin]

Hey guys!

Once again I request your aid. Our party Wizard is getting mashed back and forth by different members of the party to build or buy different things. Out of desperation, he came to me.

As the Gray Elf 28 INT Wizard looked me, the Aasimar 10 INT Paladin, in the eyes I finally understood why I don't play Wizards. I hate selecting spells!

Anyways, here is the main reason I am here! My party member is a 10th level Gray Elf Wizard who needs help selecting some great spells. What would you recommend for him? We have a reliable source of spell books, so don't let anything stop you.

Things of importance:
He is specialized in Conjuration He banned Necromancy and Illusion. We frequently fight undead, yuan-ti, and drow. He frequently finds himself in a poor situations that involve enemies next to him somehow, despite my best efforts.

Have at it! I thank you all for your cooperation!

[Extra Anchovies]

First, have a wizard handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146876). Also, have a handbook index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0). Bookmark them both, I find them very useful.

There are three things wizards can do to best contribute: battlefield control, buffing, and debuffing.

Undead have a lot of immunities, so debuffing might not be particularly effective. Buffing won't win fights alone, so I'd recommend a focus on BFC - which is good for this particular wizard, because Conjuration is the best school for it. It also helps keep people from getting next to him by sticking them in webs/solid fogs/pits of lava/etc.

Is he a focused specialist? If not, I'd recommend advising him to ask your DM if he can become one - they give up another school (maybe evocation; conjuration has enough direct-damage that he won't need fireball) in exchange for another spell per day of each level. As for what to do with all those spell slots, here's a guide (http://archive.is/zxPE6) regarding Conjuration spells (by the same author as the above wizard handbook).

[IZ42]

I'm not the greatest with Wizards either, but I'll try and help a bit.

Summoning is always good, find a way to keep some creatures around himself or as bodyguards while he does nasty things to the enemies. He may also want to pick up one of the Transposition spells, just to have an easy escape route, as well as some of the 'Dimension X' spells. I can't offer much in the way of conjuration spells specifically that deal with Undead, but some summons have the ability to Smite Evil, which Undead, Yuan-ti, and Drow tend to be.

[LoyalPaladin]

Is he a focused specialist? If not, I'd recommend advising him to ask your DM if he can become one - they give up another school (maybe evocation; conjuration has enough direct-damage that he won't need fireball) in exchange for another spell per day of each level. As for what to do with all those spell slots, here's a guide (http://archive.is/zxPE6) regarding Conjuration spells (by the same author as the above wizard handbook).
I'll have to read over all of these tonight. He is coming over to my place to work on his Wizard a bit. Poor guy can't catch a break. I did all I could to keep a nasty Twisted Rune vampire off of him last week, this was right after one of our own clerics tried to grapple him. Good times...


I'm not the greatest with Wizards either, but I'll try and help a bit.

Summoning is always good, find a way to keep some creatures around himself or as bodyguards while he does nasty things to the enemies. He may also want to pick up one of the Transposition spells, just to have an easy escape route, as well as some of the 'Dimension X' spells.
This is a good suggestion. He is a little paranoid now, so he tries to hug close to the Paladin. I've somehow managed to form a bond with this Wizard over the last week and have now become a tier 1 Paladin. I'm telling you guys, anyone can be tier 1. You just have to believe.


I can't offer much in the way of conjuration spells specifically that deal with Undead, but some summons have the ability to Smite Evil, which Undead, Yuan-ti, and Drow tend to be.
The undead aren't awful, I nabbed a magic item that lets me turn like a cleric of my level +1 and I've got a 22 CHA. I also am optimizing smite.

[IZ42]

The undead aren't awful, I nabbed a magic item that lets me turn like a cleric of my level +1 and I've got a 22 CHA. I also am optimizing smite.

I was pointing out the smite evil stuff so you didn't have to waste your smite on every single ghoul or what have you that decided the wizard was tasty.

[Drork]

My first advice to most spell casters is get your hands on a spell book App. Building spell lists with pen and paper is hard work and takes a lot of experience, dont get me wrong it is better. However Apps are so much easier, quick reference lets you take more taxing spells as you can have the "book" open to the spell when ever you want it most have a search function which is a god send. The draw back of many of the apps are they are stuck with a limited selection aka what they have the rights too. Some get around this by Add your own spell feature.

If you dont like the App idea getting a collection of spell lists (offensive, defensive, walking around town etc) are good and always always once you start hitting higher levels saves a slot for on the fly memorization. Can help free you up from choice paralysis dont know if you want an extra fly/haste/invisibility one third level spell slot covers them all as needed (hopefully) however you need to remember the draw back is you can not power dump quickly as it takes time to slot in that spell.

The most and I mean MOST important thing of playing a wizard is knowing all of the spells you have, and all of the spells you can get access too. This means a lot of reading, however if often also includes rereading. Looking at the simple Grease spell many people know and love. It can be used to shape the battle field, disarm/stop someone from using an item and enhance getting out of a grapple (and has no effect on putting someone into one). That is a lot for one spell remembering it all probably takes some reading and rereading until you know it. ALSO (D) = dismiss able I even forgot something going over it in my head ...

Depending on how free and easy it is to get spells due to your DM, keep in mind metamagic feats can some times make a spell take the place of another spell or are not required because another spell can take its place. Hold person (heightened) vs hold monster. There are a lot of these considering most damage spells scale with level fairly constantly as well. Taking a hit on a mid level damage spell to go with an empowered lower one can open up a lot of utility options that would have remained closed, however if you can get your hands on the magic item in place of the feat do that. Also with all feat selection consider any prestige class being looked at.

A few other points that may or may not be in those guides. Get some save tester/spell savers scrolls/wands. Magic items like pearls of power are AMAZING, rods of metamatic can be useful. Stay cheep with your help magic magic items because at low levels of power they give a lot more bang for the buck and often a low level spell with enhancements is as good as high level spell for a lot of situations.

Final point is magic is super powerful ... so dispel magic and alike are in turn made powerful by association.

[Aka-chan]

There's a Spell Compendium spell called Dimension Jumper that lets the caster teleport 20 ft per round. That could be useful for your wizard if he finds an enemy getting into melee with him. Alternatively, there's an item called an Anklet of Translocation that lets you teleport 10 ft two or three times a day.

As for summons, a wizard I used to play had fun with summoning Celestial Lions. They have Pounce and Rake, which lets them make five attacks if they charge. And with 5 HD, they get a little bit of DR, which can help them stick around longer.

[Jack_Simth]

Hey guys!

Once again I request your aid. Our party Wizard is getting mashed back and forth by different members of the party to build or buy different things. Out of desperation, he came to me.

As the Gray Elf 28 INT Wizard looked me, the Aasimar 10 INT Paladin, in the eyes I finally understood why I don't play Wizards. I hate selecting spells!

Anyways, here is the main reason I am here! My party member is a 10th level Gray Elf Wizard who needs help selecting some great spells. What would you recommend for him? We have a reliable source of spell books, so don't let anything stop you.

Things of importance:
He is specialized in Conjuration He banned Necromancy and Illusion. We frequently fight undead, yuan-ti, and drow. He frequently finds himself in a poor situations that involve enemies next to him somehow, despite my best efforts.

Have at it! I thank you all for your cooperation!

Hmm...

Well, assuming you don't want to go too hard onto the optimization side... leverage those Conjourations!

For getting away from opponents who get too close:
Dimension Door. At 10th, he should be able to pass the Casting Defensively concentration check without issues. A Metamagic Rod of Quicken Spell would be handy here, too.

For keeping opponents at bay:
Wall of Stone (5th; reflex save or be stuck in a stone box)
Black Tentacles (4th; Grapple check or take damage and be grappled; big area)
Solid Fog (4th; no save limited to 5 feet around, also blocks line-of-sight; big area)
Stinking Cloud (3rd, living and breathing opponents only; fort save or Nauseated, which is a really nice condition to apply to your enemies; also blocks line-of-sight)
Sleet Storm (3rd, Balance Check DC 10 to move at all, blocks line-of-sight)
Glitterdust (2nd, Will save or Blind)
Web (2nd, Reflex save or Entangled and unable to move)

For killing things:
Open up Spell Compendium, look at the Orb line (4th). Note that they're all SR: No, and apply to touch AC.
Black Tentacles again (4th)
The Summon line.

[Bad Wolf]

What's his prestige class, if he has one?

[Extra Anchovies]

A very strong alternative to Dimension Door/Dimension Jumper is the Abrupt Jaunt ACF from PHB2. Trade your familiar for some immediate-action short-range teleports. Good for saying "no" to, well, everything, from melee full attacks to AoE effects.

[nedz]

This is a good suggestion. He is a little paranoid now, so he tries to hug close to the Paladin. I've somehow managed to form a bond with this Wizard over the last week and have now become a tier 1 Paladin. I'm telling you guys, anyone can be tier 1. You just have to believe.

Player > Build > Class
Also, Wizards have a low OP floor.

He's a Conjurer, so does he have Abrupt Jaunt ?
Immediate Magic (PHB 2 p68)
This would allow him to teleport a short distance as an immediate action a few times a day.
This should mean that he never gets into trouble, unless he's flat-footed.

In any event if he's doing BFC (Battle Field Control) properly then it will rarely be needed because the enemy will be wasting their actions trying to get through his spells.

[jiriku]

Funny you should ask. I currently play a level 10 wizard specialized in conjuration who banned necromancy and illusion. And we frequently fight undead. I am the party's main tank/damage mitigation specialist, so I frequently find myself in situations that involve enemies next to me. Perhaps I can help.

First of all, if he is sitting on an Int 28, he probably has a circlet of intellect +6. He's over-specializing in offense. The three most important rules of wizarding are defense, defense, and defense. When you can effectively contribute to most battles by spending three or fewer spell slots offensively, it's just criminal not to devote a substantial portion of your spell and money resources to self-protection. His high Int is great, but it doesn't solve all problems. You can't neglect your hp, AC and saves, and it sounds like he may be doing that.

Let's take a look at those three things. With the right spells and the Craft Wondrous Items feat, he can craft gloves of dexterity +2 and amulet of health +2 and a cloak of resistance +2. These would be wise investments: for 6k gp he can get +10 hp, +1 AC, and +3 to Fort and Reflex saves and +1 Will save. That's relatively minor cash at his level; maybe you can loan him the money if he can't pay right now. Looking at spells and metamagic, he should be casting mage armor for +4 AC and alter self (crucian or troglodyte) for +6 to +8 additional AC. Heart of earth is also a critical defensive spell for a wizard who's personally taking a beating in most fights. If he has Extend Spell, he should extend these buffs. If not, he should prepare multiple castings so he can keep them up all day. I recommend he combine this with both the Abrupt Jaunt ACF and anklets of translocation. Eleven 10-ft teleports as a swift or immediate action will save him a lot of pain. It is also definitely time to consider overland flight, which will get him out of a lot of melee situations. Luminous armor and greater luminous armor are often recommended as upgrades over mage armor, but they inflict Strength damage on the caster, and if his Str is as low as I suspect it is, that would probably put him in an unacceptable position. Shield isn't bad though, if he can prebuff before a fight or find a spare round during the fight. If he's got spare cash, adding a +1 deflection bonus to AC or +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor isn't a bad use for it. If there are other full casters in the party, negotiate with them to see if they'd be willing to cast one or two defensive spells per day on the wizard. Long-duration buffs like magic vestment, barkskin, and conviction are great choices.

With these things combined, he's looking at +30 hp, DR 10/adamantine once or twice per day, an AC of 23 to 32, adequate saves, and 11 quick jumps out of trouble per day. His total investment will be about 7k - 11k gp, 1-2 feats, and maybe six to ten spell slots.

Well-prepared wizards do not need to hide behind anyone. My 10th level conjurer walks into most combats with 86 hp, an AC of 30 to 38, and saves that average about +10 each. With defenses like those, he can take heat from the bad guys long enough to unload his battlefield control, buff the party, and deliver a dps kicker to take down any stubborn foes. In fact, he's usually trying to position himself to draw as much aggro as possible in order to give the "squishy" members of the party more breathing room.

[Extra Anchovies]

Funny you should ask. I currently play a level 10 wizard specialized in conjuration who banned necromancy and illusion. And we frequently fight undead. I am the party's main tank/damage mitigation specialist, so I frequently find myself in situations that involve enemies next to me. Perhaps I can help.

First of all, if he is sitting on an Int 28, he probably has a circlet of intellect +6. He's over-specializing in offense. The three most important rules of wizarding are defense, defense, and defense. When you can effectively contribute to most battles by spending three or fewer spell slots offensively, it's just criminal not to devote a substantial portion of your spell and money resources to self-protection. His high Int is great, but it doesn't solve all problems. You can't neglect your hp, AC and saves, and it sounds like he may be doing that.

Let's take a look at those three things. With the right spells and the Craft Wondrous Items feat, he can craft gloves of dexterity +2 and amulet of health +2 and a cloak of resistance +2. These would be wise investments: for 6k gp he can get +10 hp, +1 AC, and +3 to Fort and Reflex saves and +1 Will save. That's relatively minor cash at his level; maybe you can loan him the money if he can't pay right now. Looking at spells and metamagic, he should be casting mage armor for +4 AC and alter self (crucian or troglodyte) for +6 to +8 additional AC. Heart of earth is also a critical defensive spell for a wizard who's personally taking a beating in most fights. If he has Extend Spell, he should extend these buffs. If not, he should prepare multiple castings so he can keep them up all day. I recommend he combine this with both the Abrupt Jaunt ACF and anklets of translocation. Eleven 10-ft teleports as a swift or immediate action will save him a lot of pain. It is also definitely time to consider overland flight, which will get him out of a lot of melee situations. Luminous armor and greater luminous armor are often recommended as upgrades over mage armor, but they inflict Strength damage on the caster, and if his Str is as low as I suspect it is, that would probably put him in an unacceptable position. Shield isn't bad though, if he can prebuff before a fight or find a spare round during the fight. If he's got spare cash, adding a +1 deflection bonus to AC or +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor isn't a bad use for it. If there are other full casters in the party, negotiate with them to see if they'd be willing to cast one or two defensive spells per day on the wizard. Long-duration buffs like magic vestment, barkskin, and conviction are great choices.

With these things combined, he's looking at +30 hp, DR 10/adamantine once or twice per day, an AC of 23 to 32, adequate saves, and 11 quick jumps out of trouble per day. His total investment will be about 7k - 11k gp, 1-2 feats, and maybe six to ten spell slots.

Well-prepared wizards do not need to hide behind anyone. My 10th level conjurer walks into most combats with 86 hp, an AC of 30 to 38, and saves that average about +10 each. With defenses like those, he can take heat from the bad guys long enough to unload his battlefield control, buff the party, and deliver a dps kicker to take down any stubborn foes. In fact, he's usually trying to position himself to draw as much aggro as possible in order to give the "squishy" members of the party more breathing room.

Adding on to this: if the conjurer has some room to spare in his carrying capacity (or if your group doesn't track carrying capacity), a Mithral feycraft (DMGII) chain shirt with thistledown coat (Races of the Wild) has -0 ACP and 0% ASF, and unlike mage armor can receive enhancement bonuses and special armor abilities.

[ericgrau]

Hey guys!

Once again I request your aid. Our party Wizard is getting mashed back and forth by different members of the party to build or buy different things. Out of desperation, he came to me.

As the Gray Elf 28 INT Wizard looked me, the Aasimar 10 INT Paladin, in the eyes I finally understood why I don't play Wizards. I hate selecting spells!

Anyways, here is the main reason I am here! My party member is a 10th level Gray Elf Wizard who needs help selecting some great spells. What would you recommend for him? We have a reliable source of spell books, so don't let anything stop you.

Things of importance:
He is specialized in Conjuration He banned Necromancy and Illusion. We frequently fight undead, yuan-ti, and drow. He frequently finds himself in a poor situations that involve enemies next to him somehow, despite my best efforts.

Have at it! I thank you all for your cooperation!
Off the top of my head I only know the SRD spells and a few spell compendium spells. I suggest taking my list, adjusting as desired and also substituting in some good splatbook spells that other forum goers will inevitably supply.

Lots of undead and frequently stuck in melee. Well there's halt undead and false li- gawdammit he banned necromancy. Well don't worry there are work-arounds.

Items:
Pick up a lesser rod of extend spell.
Scrolls with every 1st and 2nd level utility spell. Search the PHB at minimum, maybe SpC too. Usually 1-2 each but if the utility spell needs to be used on the whole party, get enough for the whole party. Usually minimum caster level but higher is good for spells like tenser's floating disk and summon monster I. Scroll of shock and awe (SpC) is good for an ambush.
Basic +1 AC items: Ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, +1 mithril buckler (mithril so no spell failure chance nor proficiency required). Don't invest much gold but it all adds up. This plus greater mage armor plus a 12-14 dex means 21-22 AC which means a CR 8 foe (party of 4 = EL 12) may miss half the time. At level 10 that's almost like 24 hours of 50% miss chance on the cheap. At level 15 you add in actual miss chance but your old AC items still help a little. Don't rely on round/level or min/level sources of AC or miss chance, especially not for ambushes. But they're ok on scrolls in case the wizard does get the extra buff rounds to use them. Shield, alter self, blink, etc.

Spells:
1 (8): nerveskitter x 2 (SpC), rod-extended unseen servant (for 20 hours), alarm, feather fall, summon monster I, whatever other 2 spells
2 (6): swift fly (SpC, better maneuverability than overland flight, night encounters), web, see invisibility, levitate, locate object, rope trick
For dangerous nights or cramped places prepare 3 swift flights, replacing locate object and web. When entering a dungeon, cast see invisibility ahead of time rather than waiting until you run into an invisible foe. Why levitate and flight? The levitate target is not the wizard... it is awesomely useful, just watch.
3 (5): rod-extended greater mage armor (for 20 hours), daylight (drow), sleet storm, haste, rod-extended greater magic weapon on the helpful beloved paladin (for 20 hours)
If you're sure you won't face drow, swap out daylight for something else.
4 (5): heart of earth (CM) x 2 (for 20 hours), dimension door, wall of fire (undead), solid fog
Later on consider picking up the extend spell feat and forming Captain Planet (heart of earth, air, fire, water).
If you expect a dungeon swap in stoneskin(s). Carry about 2,000 gp in diamond dust and replenish as needed. Also for a dungeon swap in mass resist energy and tag the whole party at the entrance with fire resistance. Now you can be more careless with your wall of fire and in a closed off room force 100% of foes to take damage every round. Or 4-5 scrolls of resist energy are nice too. Resilient sphere is nice to swap in at times too for single foe removal, since most foes have a poor reflex save and rarely is a foe immune or able to escape it.
5 (4): overland flight, wall of force x 2, arc of lightning (SpC)
Also have teleport in the spellbook for plot reasons.
4th level has a lot of good spells. He might prepare one in a 5th level slot. Besides the above I left out Evard's black tentacles.

Basic strategy: All day buffs keep the wizard out of harm's way even if surprised (unlike round/level buffs). Crowd control further weakens enemy damage output besides often being the most effective wizard option for combat in general. The best spell for such is wall of force. For his backup damage I noticed arc of lightning for the first time ever. Mult-target SR no damage and it's conjuration.

Besides teleport he should also have some divination spells in his spellbook for plot reasons. Even though he usually doesn't prepare them.

[jiriku]

I want to especially call out one of the spells ericgrau mentioned, otiluke's resilient sphere, because it is hugely flexible and useful. You can cast it on an enemy to neutralize him. You can cast it on an ally who's gone down (or who's about to go down) to prevent enemies from finishing them off. You can cast it on yourself to get some breathing room to heal and buff up if you're almost dead or got all of your buffs stripped off of you with a dispel magic. You can block off four squares in a room, or entirely block a 10-ft wide corridor, by casting it on yourself, and then using anklets of translocation abrupt jaunt to 'port out. If you have celerity, you can interrupt an attack and cast it on your ally to break line of effect with it, providing a hard counter to even the most powerful and deadly spells. You can save yourself from environmental hazards like drowning, poison gas, crushing ceilings, and more. It is just a hugely useful spell in so many situations.

[LoyalPaladin]

Thank you all for your help. Sorry I haven't been responding much, my power has been out. I sent this over to the wizard though and he built a very solid spell list. He also got some good build ideas. Last night we had our session and he was very very useful.

[ericgrau]

Awesome thanks for letting us know.