Has anyone played with Sutra Magic and Pact Magic?

[The Vagabond]

How familiar is everyone with the Sutra magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/sutra-magic) and Binding/Pact magic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/pact-magic) subsystems? This is just someone curious about the systems, and I want to know the Playgrounds opinions on them.

[Psyren]

I wrote a handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FGgq3CJYQaeAugHvaaws-ak1ryZzijKou_w1KN0D9HA/pub) for the latter (centered around its flagship class, the Occultist), though keep in mind that since their Kickstarter funded the rules are undergoing a fairly heavy overhaul right now.

My nutshell review is that if you like the Binder, you should enjoy the Occultist.

[The Vagabond]

I wrote a handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FGgq3CJYQaeAugHvaaws-ak1ryZzijKou_w1KN0D9HA/pub) for the latter (centered around its flagship class, the Occultist), though keep in mind that since their Kickstarter funded the rules are undergoing a fairly heavy overhaul right now.

My nutshell review is that if you like the Binder, you should enjoy the Occultist.
Alright- But let's say that if I've never played a Binder before, what would I think about it?

And has nobody here played with Sutra magic?

[Psyren]

Alright- But let's say that if I've never played a Binder before, what would I think about it?

That depends on a lot of factors, which is why "do you like Binders" is useful shorthand.

- Fluff: Do you like eerie, Goetian style magic that requires strange diagrams, bargaining with beings beyond reality, and likely attracting negative attention from the gods that put them there and their associated churches?
- Crunch: Do you like a magic system where, rather than preparing a larger daily loadout of spells, you prepare a smaller mix of powers that are mostly either constant, at-will, or 1/encounter?
- Crunch: Are you well-versed with the ins an outs of supernatural abilities and SLAs - what they can do that spells cannot, and how they interact with other facets of the combat system?
- Both: Do you mind the GM occasionally telling you how you should act in a certain situation, and taking penalties if you refuse? Would you mind potentially being subject to two or more different voices that might even require you to do opposing things?
- Both: Do you like the idea of magic that doesn't require extensive study, devout faith, or being born gifted to attain? The sort of magic that any (un)lucky farmer or bored noble with a stick of chalk can get his hands on? Crunch-wise: do you like the idea of magic that doesn't depend on your ability scores to achieve? (Of course, having high Cha is better but binding is truly NAD.)

If you can get behind all that stuff then binding (in both editions of the game) is for you.

[Callin]

Just got done playing a Wizard/Occultist/Anima Mage (3.P game). He was a "Demon Summoner/Pact Maker". I refulffed everything to be Demons and Devils and it worked WONDERS. The powers supplemented the Wizard greatly. Specially summoning up an Eidolon at around lvl 9 or 10 I think using Loh'Moi and his Companion, then later using the Zombie Cohort from Dagon.

[Milo v3]

If your a GM you'll also have to think whether you enjoy the flavour of the pre-packaged spirits of the occultist, or are going to reflavour them heavily, since each one has a rather decent chuck of flavour assigned to it.

[Eldaran]

I pretty much only DM, so I can't speak from the player perspective, but I've used a couple Occultist or other spirit magic NPCs after reading Psyren's guide. I found they made very interesting opponents or NPCs in out of combat situations. Their powers are very interesting, varied, and flavorful, and they hit a nice balance point as well.