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View Full Version : Optimization Help with a scythe build



martixy
2015-05-23, 01:42 AM
I've always had this idea in the back of my mind for a build based on the scythe, and then I saw this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYW2GmHB5xs

So can you guys help me recreate this? (As cool as the gun concept is, we'll skip it, unless someone comes up with some brilliant idea in that regard.)

Basic idea being the ability to move through the battlefield and hack things to bits with a weapon larger than me.

So the immediate approach that comes to mind is Dervish and Monkey grip or Half-Giant.
But the details are fuzzy.
What base class? Can we squeeze in Item Familiar?
All the other details?

Also, consider Dodge/Mobility the same feat(I hate the everliving **** out of the latter and do not play such builds if the DM doesn't allow the merge).

chainer1216
2015-05-23, 03:18 AM
Giants scythe is easy, use strong arm bracers from the MiC to wield a +1 size category scythe.

As for the speed and mobility I have less of an idea, I know there's a gish PrC called the swiftblade that's really good and haste based. I think there's another one for short range teleportation, forget what its called though.

other than that there's the good ol' fashioned uber charger builds.

On the extremely low end of the optimization pool there's spring attack and its "improvements" from PHB2.

Yael
2015-05-23, 03:54 AM
I preferr Talenta Sharash over Scythe, because of the tripping posibilities, and reach, also 18-20/x2 critical chance, so most of those attacks would fit as exceptional attacks, try a warblade's maneuvers, especially from Tiger Claw.
Talenta Sharash is exotic, but still worth, imo (I love it, though).

Uncle Pine
2015-05-23, 04:01 AM
Take 10 Arcane Duelists levels, add a way to fuel Travel Devotion and/or a couple of Belts of Battle, sprinkle Legacy Champions levels to taste: go around doing 4-7 full attacks per rounds.

Andreaz
2015-05-23, 06:51 AM
I've always had this idea in the back of my mind for a build based on the scythe, and then I saw this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYW2GmHB5xs

So can you guys help me recreate this? (As cool as the gun concept is, we'll skip it, unless someone comes up with some brilliant idea in that regard.)

Basic idea being the ability to move through the battlefield and hack things to bits with a weapon larger than me.

So the immediate approach that comes to mind is Dervish and Monkey grip or Half-Giant.
But the details are fuzzy.
What base class? Can we squeeze in Item Familiar?
All the other details?

Also, consider Dodge/Mobility the same feat(I hate the everliving **** out of the latter and do not play such builds if the DM doesn't allow the merge).
Full "attack while moving" will be complicated, especially with that big weapon, but everything else is quite easy. A Warblade is probably your best bet. Focus on Iron Heart, Diamond Mind and dabble in Tiger Claw. They give fair mobility, emphasize speed and area attacks.
For the bigass weapon, Half-Giant is medium but wields weapons for Large creatures. Strongarm Bracers should bring that to Huge. A scythe made for someone Large is probably already going to be the size of someone medium, so go to town.

Also, watch the full RWBY series (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbLUYSdIxYImCmlghpNMlt4bIpXTVHSMy). It's made of love, rainbows, caffeine and badass heroes doing crazy **** with hybrid weapons. When the secondary cast has Thor and Achilles wielding a grenade-launcher giant hammer and shield + gladius/rifle/javelin, you know you're going places.

martixy
2015-05-23, 01:05 PM
Full "attack while moving" will be complicated, especially with that big weapon, but everything else is quite easy. A Warblade is probably your best bet. Focus on Iron Heart, Diamond Mind and dabble in Tiger Claw. They give fair mobility, emphasize speed and area attacks.
For the bigass weapon, Half-Giant is medium but wields weapons for Large creatures. Strongarm Bracers should bring that to Huge. A scythe made for someone Large is probably already going to be the size of someone medium, so go to town.

Also, watch the full RWBY series (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbLUYSdIxYImCmlghpNMlt4bIpXTVHSMy). It's made of love, rainbows, caffeine and badass heroes doing crazy **** with hybrid weapons. When the secondary cast has Thor and Achilles wielding a grenade-launcher giant hammer and shield + gladius/rifle/javelin, you know you're going places.

I'm gonna do the watching... but. First of all, yes, I already know of Half-Giant, you even quoted me on it. Second, the bracers do not work in conjunction with the half-giant's racial feature - it is explicitly stated in the description.

I like the Talenta Sharrash. Though the feat tax is heavy - Exotic WP + Shorten Grip or Short Haft, so I'm not sure if +1 threat and 2d8 vs 2d6 is worth the cost. At least even with the nerf, you can always make the weapon out of kaorti resin.

And I like the Legacy Champion - it basically condenses all of its class benefits to 2 levels worth of features, and maybe slightly lower hit die/BAB.

As for Arcane Duelist - Bard seems like a good entry, I'll try to concept something from that as well.

Dusk Eclipse
2015-05-23, 01:25 PM
I preferr Talenta Sharash over Scythe, because of the tripping posibilities, and reach, also 18-20/x2 critical chance, so most of those attacks would fit as exceptional attacks, try a warblade's maneuvers, especially from Tiger Claw.
Talenta Sharash is exotic, but still worth, imo (I love it, though).

Sadly the Talenta Sharash got errataed to be 19-20/ x 2

torrasque666
2015-05-23, 01:50 PM
For the bigass weapon, Half-Giant is medium but wields weapons for Large creatures. Strongarm Bracers should bring that to Huge. A scythe made for someone Large is probably already going to be the size of someone medium, so go to town.

Nope. Strongarm Bracers explicitly call out not stacking with Powerful Build.

Tohsaka Rin
2015-05-23, 09:29 PM
Balanced, from the Arms and Equipment Guide, however, treats the weapon as one size smaller, and would stack with Powerful Build or Strongarm Bracers.

WhamBamSam
2015-05-23, 11:43 PM
Paimon's Dance of Death might be a good bet. 3-4 Binder levels (depending on whether you can spare a non-bonus feat on Improved Binding).

If you can reliably keep your enemies flat-footed, then Planar Touchstone (Oxyrhynchus) is a little bit wonderful. It'll give you an extra attack at -5.

There's also good (well, mediocre) old Cleave and friends, which seem to be more or less what's going on in that video.

Seerow
2015-05-24, 12:03 AM
Paimon's Dance of Death might be a good bet. 3-4 Binder levels (depending on whether you can spare a non-bonus feat on Improved Binding).

If you can reliably keep your enemies flat-footed, then Planar Touchstone (Oxyrhynchus) is a little bit wonderful. It'll give you an extra attack at -5.

There's also good (well, mediocre) old Cleave and friends, which seem to be more or less what's going on in that video.

Seconding Paimon, his dance of death is the best dervish dance iteration, being both unlimited use (okay, cooldown limited) and no weapon restrictions. Unfortunately it does prevent bonus attacks from stuff like Haste/Cleave, which means it works against some of the other suggestions here (though those still work on the rounds you can't dance).

Watching the video, I see a lot of what looks like attacks of opportunity, where the wolf closes in and then the chick just slices it in half. Combat Reflexes + feats/abilities that force enemies to provoke seem like a good option here. Reach Weapon is out since you're using a Scythe... but stuff like Karmic Strike, Defensive Sweep, Thicket of Blades will help. Combine with Sidestep for some bonus mobility too.

Also I think there is either a maneuver or a spell that lets you say "This next attack is treated as a natural 20". I could be wrong about that or misremembering (if it does exist it isn't something that has been used in any of my games personally), but if it does exist, a scythe-based combatant absolutely needs it.

Dusk Eclipse
2015-05-24, 12:12 AM
The "treat next die roll as a nat 20" ability is a spell, not maneuver. It is called surge of fortune and it is Cleric 4 IIRC

Yael
2015-05-24, 05:37 AM
Sadly the Talenta Sharash got errataed to be 19-20/ x 2

Oh... My kokoro... </3 (actually didn't know about the 18-20/x4 > 19-20/x2.)

frost890
2015-05-25, 05:45 PM
The hardest thing willie the movement with full attack. But in my view you shouldn't need an oversized scythe. The standard sized is about that big. If your GM uses tinker gnomes I would visit a village with one and see if they can build you one. Look up gun/blade or go/axe. The rich and powerful had real versions of a gun sword/axe in the 19th century. In game terms you can also try a wand chamber from ebberon. There are a number of magic items that can change form but that looks more like the engineering skill is needed. If the gm allows you to take exotic weapon prof I don't see why two weapon fighting wouldn't cover what I saw.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-05-25, 11:28 PM
I(As cool as the gun concept is, we'll skip it, unless someone comes up with some brilliant idea in that regard.)
Dungeonscape gave us Wand Chambers, a lovely way to combine "wielding a weapon" with "keeping a wand ready." Throw a wand of your favorite magic bullet spell in there (magic missile doesn't have the punch... lesser orb of force, perhaps. Or crystal shard, provided the DM allows you to throw a dorje in a wand chamber). As a bonus, the Wandstrike feat in CArc lets you basically jab someone in the eye with the wand and trigger the spell inside. When wand chambers are taken into consideration, perhaps a lenient DM might allow it to work as a weapon attack-wand trigger thingie?

As for class-type stuff... ToB is always the best bet for stylish melee. If that's not on the table, a level of (Cloistered) Cleric for Travel Devotion is a great bet for a mobile fighter; perhaps slap it on a Swift Hunter build (Scout/Ranger) to get the added skirmish fun. Binding Paimon would be a great addition, but as a 3rd level vestige you'd need 3 levels in a very flavor-specific class and a feat.

Venger
2015-05-26, 12:03 AM
The "treat next die roll as a nat 20" ability is a spell, not maneuver. It is called surge of fortune and it is Cleric 4 IIRC

it's actually a cleric 5. you still need to confirm crits though.