Undead Worm that Walks

[Orderic]

I have an ancient, epic level sorcerer NPC, who first became a lich and then a worm that walks.

He was sealed away a very long time ago, because killing him permanently would have been far more difficult.

However, I need him to be undead and by becoming a worm that walks, he became an aberration. Making him a wtw before becoming a lich won't work since lich can only be applied to humanoids.

So, how can I get an undead worm that walks?

[Urpriest]

I have an ancient, epic level sorcerer NPC, who first became a lich and then a worm that walks.

He was sealed away a very long time ago, because killing him permanently would have been far more difficult.

However, I need him to be undead and by becoming a worm that walks, he became an aberration. Making him a wtw before becoming a lich won't work since lich can only be applied to humanoids.

So, how can I get an undead worm that walks?

Depends. Why does the character need to be undead? I'm a little confused why the character needs to be a lich at all, and can't just be a Worm That Walks. Or has the character already shown up as a Lich in the story?

Anyway, the default would be using some template that can turn aberrations into undead, like Ghost.

[Orderic]

Mostly because of the way I want him to be sealed away.

Most of his body has been destroyed, the only parts that remain are some worms inside an adamantine box. If he is freed, he reforms, if he dies, he wil be returned to (un)life. However, if he is not undead, those worms will not survive being sealed inside the box for hundreds or even thousands of years. And while I could use some kind of stasis (I believe there is something in the SBG), it could fail if there is some problem with magic. Dead magic areas are a thing after all. And while this is not Faerun, I still have to think about Karsus and how he shut off all magic for a while.

[ShurikVch]

Is it necessary for that Lich to be a Sorcerer?
Death Master turns into Lich at 20th level regardless or type (assuming non-Undead)

[RedMage125]

The great thing about being a DM and working on background stuff is that you don't need to worry about mechanical prerequisites for an NPC's backstory.

You want him to go from lich to WtW for story reasons? Great! Just do it! If/when your players ever hear the story of how that happened, they're more likely to be like "that's pretty gnarly", than "wait...that doesn't work by the rules". And if you DO have a rules lawyer like that, just tell them to hush and enjoy the story.

Now, looking at the WtW template, it says it can be added to "any spellcaster", does not specify humanoid. Also, type changes to ooze, not aberration. So I don't see the issue, anyway.

It makes sense to me that you may have had a lich become a WtW. So his body was destroyed, and because of the phylactery being inside the adamantine box, he could not form a new one, but his spirit instead possessed the worms, and was eventually able to call out to other worms until they could all collectively open the box? That process probably took decades at least, and involved countless failed attempts, so by the time he makes it out he would be quite mad.

[Orderic]

Ah, I had forgotten about Death Master. While not perfect, it could be usable, Thank you.


I think the one in my group who ist the biggest rules-lawyer would be me, which is, why I tend to think about what I can do with the rules.

So, I guess the best way to create some kind of "lichworm" template, which is wtw for a lich.


Your scenario sounds interesting, although the one I want is more along the lines of the players finding some dead worms in a box.

ALso, according to the SRD, concerning the type of wtw:

The character’s type changes to aberration (it is a creature composed of hundreds of discrete crawling worms).

[RedMage125]

Huh, I was going off the actual book (Epic Level Handbook). But that was 3.0, that change must've been part of the update.

[frogglesmash]

Savage species introduced a "type pyramid" which is used for determining which creature type takes precedent when applying multiple templates. It groups the types as follows:
[Construct, Outsider, Undead]
[Elemental, Ooze, Plant]
[Aberration]
[Dragon, Humanoid (Shapechanger)]
[Fey, Giant]
[Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid]
[Animal, Humanoid, Vermin]

What this means is that templates can't change a creatures type to something lower in the pyramid i.e. Undead into Aberration doesn't work, but Aberration into undead does.
From what I've gathered from browsing various d&d forms most people either aren't aware of or choose not to use this rule, maybe because it's 3.0 and as far as I know it never got a 3.5 update.

[DrMotives]

I'd go with RedMage's suggestions here, they sound like common sense. And frankly, when figuring out type for multiple type changing templates, you usually have to fall back on common sense.

[Urpriest]

Mostly because of the way I want him to be sealed away.

Most of his body has been destroyed, the only parts that remain are some worms inside an adamantine box. If he is freed, he reforms, if he dies, he wil be returned to (un)life. However, if he is not undead, those worms will not survive being sealed inside the box for hundreds or even thousands of years. And while I could use some kind of stasis (I believe there is something in the SBG), it could fail if there is some problem with magic. Dead magic areas are a thing after all. And while this is not Faerun, I still have to think about Karsus and how he shut off all magic for a while.

Ah, if that's the only problem, then yeah, you don't need the guy to be undead.

The worms that comprise a WtW are weird, far-realm-ish Kyuss worms. They seem like exactly the sort of thing that could survive in a box for thousands of years.

[RedMage125]

Ah, if that's the only problem, then yeah, you don't need the guy to be undead.

The worms that comprise a WtW are weird, far-realm-ish Kyuss worms. They seem like exactly the sort of thing that could survive in a box for thousands of years.

Ehhhh....

While Kyuss himself is statted out as a WtW (made up of Kyuss Worms), the default WtW does not have any abilities that would suggest that the worms are Kyuss Worms. There is no ability to infect others with the worm, or throw the worm, or anything of the sort. Multiple Kyuss-Worm-infested monsters appear in the Age of Worms adventure path, and all of them share such qualities, from the lowly (comparatively) Spawn of Kyuss to the every-one-is-unique Kyuss Knight to Kyuss himself.

But it's still do-able. The worms consumed the flesh of a powerful wizard (necromancer?), and were infused with dark magicks that sustained their lives. That, or they fed on each other while continuing to propagate. If even one worm survives, the WtW will as well.