Charger Feat Fix?

[Jeebs]

Would switching the damage bonus on the Charger feat from a flat +5 to a scaling bonus equal to the character's level (ie 1-20) make the feat competitive enough?

At level one the damage bonus would be small but the utility of a dash and attack in a single round would still be valuable. At level 4 you'd lose a point of damage, but get it right back at the next level. By level 10, the bonus would be equal to a single Great Weapon Master attack, without the attack penalty. +20 damage on a single attack probably isn't great at level 20, but it's still an improvement over the existing feat, and hopefully it's still a large bonus in the context of 5e's Bounded Accuracy. Plus, nothing would stop you from combining Charger with other feats and Features (Divine Smite, Sneak Attack, Great Weapon Master, etc.).

Does this make Charger a strong enough feat to consider taking with specific builds?

[Ziegander]

I think it probably does, yeah. I like it; it's simple and effective.

[Yagyujubei]

it would still be pretty damn weak, because it negates any multi-attacking you would have access to AND uses your bonus action. so you're using your action AND bonus action to get 2d6+20 instead of getting 8d6+20 by just using your action.

never worth in my opinion.

I think an easier fix would be to allow it to work with multi-attacks and reduce the damage bonus...maybe +3 would be balanced alright? you could action > dash > bonus action > attack for 8d6+32. basically getting 12 damage for burning your bonus action.

the problem with this is that it would make charger strictly better than any form of dual wielding. It's tricksey

your version would might have pretty great applications with a lance paladin though.

[MeeposFire]

Either feat works for a melee cleric. Melee clerics either have to use polearm mastery (forces you to use only certain weapons which is not always fun), multiclass (slows down your progress), play as a war cleric (which only works wisdom mod per day), or duel wield (which form is not very good) in order to get multiple weapon attacks. They also have varying degrees of use for their bonus action every round.

A cleric that is not wanting to use a 2nd level spell every round to use spiritual weapon may think charger is a decent investment as it increases the damage of a single attack type build which is what a standard cleric is forced to do.

This could be used with their spirit guardian spell since it can activate (depending on ruling) based on movement into enemies. A mobile cleric could move to activate that spells damage while using charger to deal increase damage with his melee attack. Lastly you could also use mobile to increase your range and your ability to reduce opportunity attacks.

Still fairly niche though.

[MadBear]

I have a dwarf friend using the feat as is in my current campaign. It works surprising better then I thought it would. It takes those moments where you couldn't reach an opponent (which depending on the DM can vary wildly), and to get in close with a bit of bonus damage. So far he's ended up using the benefits of it about every other fight.

Your fix probably would work just fine in most games though, if you find enemies are usually in range.

[Chaosvii7]

Honestly? It might be worth it to just take the bonus damage away and instead just introduce a list of riders that you can trigger on a charge attack. Either that, or, if you're insistent on a damage bonus, then make it so the triggering attack deals twice as much damage. Want old-school flavor? Triple with lances. Delicious.

Either way, I think it'd work better to stop thinking about it as a potential damage increase and looking to make the utility outmatch whatever damage bonus you could assign to it.

EDIT: For shiggles, let's use this version of the feat and assume a raging level 17 Half-Orc Barbarian with a +3 lance crits somebody.

Base damage: 1d12 + 12 (Avg. 18.5)
Critical hit: 6d12 + 12 (Avg. 51)
Base charge damage: 3d12 + 36 (Avg. 55.5)
Critical hit: 10d12 + 36 (Avg. 101)

I think I fixed it. :smallredface:

[Maxilian]

it would still be pretty damn weak, because it negates any multi-attacking you would have access to AND uses your bonus action. so you're using your action AND bonus action to get 2d6+20 instead of getting 8d6+20 by just using your action.

Depends, it won't be that usefull if you are a fighter but a Cleric could actually take advantage of it (even more if the cleric is not from the War domain) -any class that doesn't concentrate on multi-attacks.

[Shaofoo]

One thing that I would do is add that you can both shove and do a melee attack at the same time if you want. Your Athletics check to shove someone is made with advantage and you can either knock it prone or push 10 feet away. Hell if you want to you can say that if the target is the same size or smaller you can move through your opponents space in a trample.

[Demonic Spoon]

I'm not actually convinced it's as bad as people say it is.



it would still be pretty damn weak, because it negates any multi-attacking you would have access to AND uses your bonus action. so you're using your action AND bonus action to get 2d6+20 instead of getting 8d6+20 by just using your action.


This is absurd. The point isn't that you use it every round. It lets you make attacks on rounds you would otherwise be totally unable to. At least in my game, that could be fairly often (though it depends on a lot of factors).

If you're trying to make it round-by-round do more damage than +1 strength or some other feat, you're missing the point. The bonus damage from Charger is 5 + <Normal attack damage>, except not every round, but in the rounds where you need to dash to get to your target. That has value against ranged attackers (including spellcasters), outdoorsy encounters or any encounter where the part starts outside of normal movement range, and huge value if fighting in difficult terrain.

[Strill]

This is absurd. The point isn't that you use it every round. It lets you make attacks on rounds you would otherwise be totally unable to. At least in my game, that could be fairly often (though it depends on a lot of factors).

There's no such thing as a round where you would otherwise be unable to attack. All characters have access to ranged attacks. That's why Paladins, for example, start with javelins.

[Easy_Lee]

What about this:
When you spend your Action to dash, you may make one attack. If you have extra attack, you may give up one of your attacks to dash as part of your attack action once per turn.

When you dash 10' or more in a straight line, your next attack this turn has advantage.

Unlike the current feat, this one would scale and be usable by classes who already have compelling bonus actions (such as rogues and hunters).

[Mandragola]

The point isn't that you use it every round. It lets you make attacks on rounds you would otherwise be totally unable to.

+1 on this. Charger is not a substitute for a "full attack", it's for when you couldn't otherwise attack.

In the right situation it could be excellent. It makes it very hard for enemies to run away for one thing, as you can run after them and keep chopping them. There are really plenty of examples of where moving twice and then having an attack would be a nice option to have. If you're hasted then you can go a hell of a long way and have two attacks at the end of it.

I do quite like the trick orcs can do, where they bonus action move towards the enemy and attack afterwards. That might be too powerful though.

[Steampunkette]

If you wanna charge play a rogue!

Break from Cover. Move. Bonus Action Dash.

DOUBLE FACE STAB!

[MadBear]

If you wanna charge play a rogue!

Break from Cover. Move. Bonus Action Dash.

DOUBLE FACE STAB!

You got my hopes up with that combo, but it doesn't work.

It specifically says when you use your "action" to dash, and it also requires that you use your bonus action to make the attack. In that case being a rogue in no way helps you get more use out charger.

[Steampunkette]

Err.. No... Not what I meant.

You don't NEED Charger as a Rogue. You can use your bonus action to dash because of Cunning Action. And then take a normal attack action.

Though the Double Face Stab would only work with the TWF Fix previously suggested, since bonus action to dash kills your offhand attack.

[Easy_Lee]

Err.. No... Not what I meant.

You don't NEED Charger as a Rogue. You can use your bonus action to dash because of Cunning Action. And then take a normal attack action.

Yes, it's rather unfortunate.

That said, I can play devil's advocate a bit. The feat still adds more damage than dual wielder, so a rogue interested in maxing his single-target, pure-classed damage might consider it and even Savage Attacker after maxing dexterity.

[Once a Fool]

Charger has awesome synergy with Mage Slayer.

[MadBear]

I find it to be a niche feat, that in the right campaign can be a game changer. (also javelin's on paladin's gets old since you can't smite with it, and sentinel won't proc off enemies 30 ft away from me).

[MarkTriumphant]

There's no such thing as a round where you would otherwise be unable to attack. All characters have access to ranged attacks. That's why Paladins, for example, start with javelins.

But if you attack with the javelin instead of continuing to move using Dash, you take even longer to move in, so the enemy has another round to move away. There are lots of advantages for the melee-focussed character in being next to your enemy, rather than attacking from range.

[Person_Man]

I think a better house rule might be to just eliminate Dash as a default Action, and replace it with Charge.

Charge: During your turn you may Charge in order to gain extra movement equal to your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you Charge. A Charge is part of your movement, and does not require any additional Action or Bonus Action. However, all of your movement for the entire turn must be in a strait line and cannot pass through any difficult terrain. You may not Charge if your movement is reduced or hindered in any way at the start of your turn, for example by a caltrop or spell.

Keep Dash, which doesn't require them to move in a strait line, as a Bonus Action for Cunning Action and Step in the Wind, which can also stack with Charge if they are willing to run in a strait line.

This way, melee oriented builds don't need to pay a Feat tax in order to be somewhat useful in corner cases (when an enemy is 35-60ish feet away). But the Monk and Rogue still retain their uber mobility niche, particularly in cramped dungeons, where movement is a strait line is limited, or in forests or other areas where there's a lot of difficult terrain.