Not knowing pathfinder, could I get help with class recomendations?

[AmbientRaven]

Hi Folks!

I'll be playing in a pathfinder game, which will be my first one, and i'm looking for some class advise (as I dont know the classes well).
So far the party is Rogue, Rogue, Alchemist, Wizard(maybe), undecided, Me

Originally I was going to be playing a cleric, but realised I am playing one in 5th and really want to do something different.
I'm trying to keep away from 5th classes as I play 5th more often than not (I also have a 7 month old 5th campaign i run).

The choices I am considering include: Summoner, Oracle (Perhaps an ancestor or battle build), 2 Handed Inquisitor, Magus (a cold Rime build), sorcerer

EDIT: The game will be tailored tot he party a little, so it may either be more social, more combatey or a blend depending on group make up and choices made. Its a home brew campaign

No....hybrid classes? is that the term? are allowed, so no Shaman ect.

Please explain why you recommend a class, because, as I mentioned I don't know pathfinder well so it may not stand out as obvious to me

Thanks for feedback and opinions!

[Venico]

I'd suggest a Barbarian, tailored how you'd like. Lots of options for customization with Rage Powers. D12 hit dice, a strong front line fighter for you. Not to mention that your party seems pretty fleshed out when it comes to intelligence and dex/char. Throw in some brute force. Helps round out the party dynamic a bit.

Hope you have fun, Pathfinder is one of my favorite systems. :)

[Sheogoroth]

These (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/rite-publishing/jotun-paragon-class) are (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-prestige-classes/rite-publishing/bone-breaker) a few of my favorites.
Though, if your DM disallows hybrid classes, he may disallow these on principle, since they are strange.
The Gunslinger and Cavalier are interesting and unique, or the Musketeer Cavalier archetype combines a bit of both.

[Raven777]

I suggest a classic : Sorcerer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer).

The Pathfinder Sorcerer is more interesting than the 3.5 one, since you can customize it with Bloodlines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines). There's pretty much a Bloodline for every flavor you can think off, even freaky reality warping (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/impossible-sorcerer). If you make your race Half-Elf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-elf), you will be able to make you Favored Class Bonus being getting an extra spell known every level, and you will have access to Paragon Surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paragon-surge), which through the feat Expanded Arcana (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/expanded-arcana) will let you access any spell once a day for utility. Being a False-Priest (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/razmiran-priest) would also gain you access to Divine spells from collecting scrolls and wands, which is always nifty. Finally, at-will Cantrips mean you can have Prestidigitation always on, calling small objects to your hand, making water look and taste like fine wine, dusting your robes... Obviously, you'll run off Charisma, so you'll want to say 'hello' to Scion of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/noble-scion) for me and enjoy your Initiative score climbing through the roof. Oh, and as a Charisma fueled nexus of pure magic, you can literally roleplay as calling shots at the universe and the universe obeying, and you'll get to pretend you channel divine power to boot.

[Hrugner]

For something simple that won't result in quibbling with your DM, I recommend a nature oracle. You can take your casting stat as an AC bonus, get a bonded mount, and undo artifice in a huge area several times a day. It's fun and simple for a full caster.

[ylvathrall]

Oracle is fun for a divine caster with a lot of flexibility. I would recommend the Dual-Cursed Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/dual-cursed-oracle) archetype; the extra revelations are very nice, and it can make the Oracle's Burden (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/oracle-s-burden) spell a pretty awesome debuff.

Alternatively, in terms of classes that I personally like, Witch is very nice. It gets a fairly flexible spell list, including heal and inflict spells. Hexes are even better, with some good debuffs (Misfortune (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-misfortune-su) and Slumber (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-slumber-su) are particularly nasty). Buffs are a little thinner, especially at higher levels, but things like at-will speak with animals (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-feral-speech-su) or water breathing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-water-lung-su) are potentially very useful, and available at first level. You mentioned that hybrid classes are out, but if other ACG material is kosher then the Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-healing-su) hex pairs ridiculously well with hex vulnerability (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hex-vulnerability). That particular combination is somewhat fishy, though, so check before you take it.

About what level is this game at? There are a lot of feats and archetypes for witch that don't get really good until higher levels. Also, what books are allowed?

[AmbientRaven]

Thank you for the feedback folks!

The game starts at level 2 with a 500gold start. (Though one custom racial trait starts you with 2000 gold and a servant)

[ylvathrall]

No problem! I probably wouldn't worry about the extra 1500 gp unless the game is only going to a quite low level; it will get irrelevant quickly at higher levels. Take it if you really can't find anything else decent, I suppose.

As far as classes go, anything catch your eye yet? I got the impression you were mostly looking at casters, but is there anything more specific you're looking for?

[AmbientRaven]

It's 2000 gold, 3000 gold in trade goods, a camel, and 2 level one servants. Though there are a lot of custom traits depending on your characters racial origins on the map.

To the classes, I am mainly looking at non 5th edition classes or ones that have a variety of play styles and don't get locked into "I attack *dice roll* I deal X damage, turn over*
Traditionally I like support/utility casters, I like high Cha party faces (though not locked into that role). I love the bard in 5e, but I have played bard a lot lately (along with cleric) so want to not play one here.
I don't mind melee classes but i normally like ones that are part spell caster (hence Magus and Inquisitor listed below).
I wont want to optimize this class I play as we're playing for RP not stats, but I like to pick classes that offer fun and utility.

My main issue with straight combat classes is lack of options I find i start getting bored of them.

The reason i am looking at the ones that I am
Oracle: Wisdom based sorcerer cleric with some great roleplay ability. nothing like it in 5e

Inquisitor: They sound interesting to play. Vanhelsing but with a big angry two handed weapon. They seem to get a really good, if limited and focused, spell list. The party at present has no main frontline

Magus: They also sound interesting, sort of like inquisitor but a little more one trick pony. A friend explained a cold based build using rime that sounds fun. The party also lacks frontline.

Summoner: Summoning is average in 5e. This class sounds fun, with the build your own pokemon, some buffs and a focus on summon magic they sound unique and fun. The Eidelon seems like it can be built as a fill in front line.

Sorcerer: After them being mentioned above, i looked into them. There is a fun half elven build (arcane bloodline) that would tie in perfectly to an egyptian esque culture in the game (descended from Djinn, noble families have powerful magic bloodlines)



Hopefully this is enough information to help you help me :p

[ylvathrall]

Okay, I think I can work with this. For the classes you're looking at:

Oracle: These are actually Charisma based, unless you're using an archetype I'm not familiar with. You can get some interesting builds, but they are spontaneous casters, so it will probably be fairly tightly focused. You can take extra revelations as a feat, and I would suggest you do so. Other than that, there's an ACG feat called Divine Protection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/divine-protection) that lets you add your Charisma modifier to all saves, which is obviously very nice for a Charisma-based caster. I mentioned Dual-Cursed earlier, and there's also the archetype Warsighted (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/warsighted), which can be very good for a melee character if ACG material is allowed.

Inquisitor: I don't have as much experience with this one. From what I've seen it's actually better for social tasks than in combat; the at-will detect alignment spells are very useful for that. Teamwork feats can be extremely good, but a lot of the really nice ones don't work well with the Inquisitor's approach. This class can also be a little tricky with party dynamics, since it's got a lot in common with a more ruthless paladin. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is something to keep in mind.

Magus: If you want to play a frontliner with a handful of cool tricks, this class is very good. I would recommend you take a look at the Bladebound (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/bladebound) and Kensai (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/kensai) archetypes. They're both quite nice, and you can take both with one character for a very focused but extremely powerful build. Bladebound does leave you open to some fun and games with your GM, since it makes you dependent on an intelligent item with a purpose of its own that may or may not agree with yours. Again, this might be a bug or a feature, depending. You can take both extra arcana and extra arcane pool as feats; generally speaking these are both going to be good options.

Summoner: If Unchained classes are fair game, I would suggest you take a look at the Unchained (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/summoner-unchained) variant of the Summoner class. It isn't really better, but it provides a much stronger theme when you're building your eidolon, which might make it easier. Regardless of which you go with, you're probably going to want a mix of combat and utility abilities for the eidolon. You might also look at the Synthesist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist) archetype, which can get ridiculously powerful. This option works very well if you want to build your summoner as a melee fighter.

Sorcerer: Probably my second-favorite class, personally. The bloodlines work very well to make sorcerers unique and interesting. If you want a challenging or exotic build, both Abyssal and Draconic bloodlines can make very good melee sorcerers. Other than that, it really depends on what you're building for. A lot of the bloodlines are very focused on a specific school of magic, which tends to make them extremely strong, but also likely to stand around looking silly when their specialty isn't useful (an enchantment-based sorcerer fighting undead, for example). If you want to play a Djinn background, there's actually a Djinni (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/djinni-bloodline) bloodline intended for that, with comparable bloodlines for Efreeti, etc. There's a feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/expanded-arcana) that lets you have extra spells known, although they may become redundant later on.

And, because it's my favorite class and I will preach it to anyone who will listen,
Witch: Hexes are really the core of this class; they basically give you a variety of at-will supernatural abilities. The basic hexes (meaning the ones that are available from first level) include things like forcing targets to roll twice and take the lower on all d20 rolls for one round, putting a single enemy to sleep without a HD cap, or applying a -2 penalty to almost any kind of roll you want. If you're feeling more benevolent, you can get at-will cure spells that only work on a given creature once per day. I mentioned water breathing and speak with animals earlier, and those are both viable choices for some characters and campaigns. Water Lung can be used on other creatures, and lets water-breathing creatures breathe air as well; Feral Speech is essentially speak with animals, and eventually lets you speak with vermin as well. I don't know how useful that will be, but if you want it this is one of only a few ways to get it. Major hexes (starting at 10th level) are more aggressive for the most part, with nasty debuffs. You can take extra hexes as a feat, and it's usually a good idea. It's worth pointing out that, as supernatural abilities, hexes don't provoke attacks of opportunity.

For spellcasting, witches do get a full 9-level spell progression. The spell list is a little limited, but does include a mix of arcane and divine spells, which can be useful. In particular, they get all of the cure and inflict spells, although they do have to learn them rather than casting them spontaneously. There are also a variety of archetypes that can be useful, depending on your build. Beast-bonded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/beast-bonded) is weak in the lower levels, but becomes almost impossible to kill at 10th level. If you're okay with being absolutely over-the-top evil, a Gravewalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/gravewalker) can probably fill all of your frontline needs with undead minions.

[Amphetryon]

I would suggest Torture Subdomain Inquisitor, or White-Haired Witch. Both are at least reasonably capable melee combatants - in short supply in your party, particularly given the low level start - and provide some magic support in areas also somewhat missing from your party. They're also both fun and interesting.

[ericgrau]

I've had fun with both oracle and sorcerer but I've heard good things about the rest too. What I like about oracle and sorcerer are that they are spontaneous casters so they are easy to use. Oracles also have interesting powers which are also easy to use. Sorcerer is similar to the 3.5 sorcerer if you've played 3.5. Oracle is mostly a spontaneous casting cleric plus some added powers. So depends what you like. Summoner I think is kind of like a druid more focused on his companion and summons, and is quite powerful. Plus he's more arcane. Had a friend play an inquisitor and it seemed like your basic melee with a justice them if you like that. I forgot a lot about magus but I think it's popular too.

You may want to go with heavy melee meaning summoner, oracle or inquisitor since your party seems to be lacking that and because PF has a lot of good melee buffs. You might want to go with summoner or oracle since the party only has the wizard and maybe the alchemist as buffers. Plus besides yourself you may be able to help buff the rogues. While they aren't heavy melee they can still appreciate it.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

A magus really can be difficult to start with, given that you need to know the ins and outs of both melee and spellcasting, along with the potential annoyingness of the class features. And this is my favorite class I'm talking about, so don't get me wrong here, I'm just saying it isn't newb-friendly. On a more party-oriented front, they can very easily fill in the role of a frontliner, though they will be more squishy than tanky, relying on spells more than their stats. I would only play a magus if that wizard plays; it sucks having people look at you to play the role of the primary caster when you don't get third level spells until 7th level.

[Spore]

I'd go for something with Stealth on their portfolio and some points to spend it in. You already have two subtle characters plus a wizard who could cast invisibility and an Alchemist with Invisibility potions and enough points to invest in Stealth. You could easily set up a subtle stealth game when you can contact all players. Of course it's always hard to stealth with 6 characters.

[ericgrau]

I'd go for something with Stealth on their portfolio and some points to spend it in. You already have two subtle characters plus a wizard who could cast invisibility and an Alchemist with Invisibility potions and enough points to invest in Stealth. You could easily set up a subtle stealth game when you can contact all players. Of course it's always hard to stealth with 6 characters.
Does pathfinder have the same rules for taking a 10? Because this can really help with stealth as long as your DM follows those rules. Note taking a 10 also applies to perception for foes that are merely on watch and not actively exploring. So rather than 6 chances of foes rolling high and 6 chances of you rolling low, which is nearly impossible, you could auto-succeed on stealth as long as your group all has higher modifiers than your foes. At worst the invisible wizard might be heard but not seen, or maybe he can pick up a talent to get stealth. There are also magic items to boost stealth too though they may be pricey until around level 7 or so.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by AmbientRaven
The reason i am looking at the ones that I am
Oracle: [Charisma] based sorcerer cleric with some great roleplay ability.

I'm playing a dwarven oracle in my current Pathfinder game and I've been enjoying it. The oracle mysteries are a diverse bunch, and you can find something for most concepts and then customize with your feats and spell selection. Since oracle spells are cleric spells, there's a hefty variety to choose from.

As steinulfr mentioned, Divine Protection is an excellent feat for an oracle, and my DM was good enough to allow it and give me a Cha-boosting item into the bargain. The oracle revelations have been a little underwhelming so far, but that's probably more due to my choice of mystery (Heavens) than anything with the oracle class overall.

If you're interested, I'd recommend giving it a try. I'd also note that your party has zero divine magic right now, and going oracle would help fill in that gap.

[ylvathrall]

The oracle revelations have been a little underwhelming so far, but that's probably more due to my choice of mystery (Heavens) than anything with the oracle class overall.

If you're interested, I'd recommend giving it a try. I'd also note that your party has zero divine magic right now, and going oracle would help fill in that gap.

Yeah, Heavens wouldn't be my first pick from an optimization standpoint. Revelations in general are only moderately impressive, though. From what I've seen each mystery has a couple of really useful revelations, and then several that are either only useful for very odd situations or so limited in uses per day that they aren't all that great. In general, though, they're still valuable enough that I would consider the Extra Revelation feat a decent choice, especially for archetypes that trade out revelations from certain levels.

Good job taking Heavens with a dwarf, by the way. That seems...oddly appropriate.

[Hrugner]

I like Heavens, awesome display is amazing and can carry you through several levels with a pimped out charisma score and color spray. Moonlight bridge is also potentially awesome depending on how your DM handles you having wall of force like abilities early on. I still prefer nature for being all around powerful without feeling like I'm cheating.

[Iwasforger03]

I'm curious as regards the Rime build for your Magus. Traditionally the best magus spell at start of game is Shocking Grasp, while late levels open up the ability take full advantage of Snowball (think orb spells from 3.5, if you are familiar with those). Snowball is an ice spell, obviously, but I'd like to know about the rime build you're considering.


If you want to heal as an oracle without burning through your spells casting cure then grab the life mystery. If you aren't worried about it there's a ton of good oracle mysteries already mentioned you can have fun with.

[Spore]

Good job taking Heavens with a dwarf, by the way. That seems...oddly appropriate.

As someone in my group pointed out: "We're never playing the normal adapted dwarves. We always get the weird ones."

I've played two oracles (and helped plan three other oracles) and what I can say is the following:

1) The Oracle Revelation heavily influences and forms your combat and social role:
My Lore Oracle knows everything my DM allows (with Knowledge checks above 40) while my Ancestors Oracle could be a melee combatant but simply chooses to focus on a buffing role. A friend's flames oracle is a terrific blaster while another friend's time oracle is a good buffer and utility caster (no gesture short range dimension door, aging mundane shackles, haste). The Moon Oracle a friend built is a decent debuffer and melee combatant.

2) Revelations are great but don't overdo it with the Extra Revelation feat:
There are only so many revelations worth your normal class feature. And you need other feats to fill your combat role as well. Combat Casting in a pinch, Divine Protection to save from enemy spells, Spell Penetration for debuffers and blasters, Augment Summoning for summoners. Skill Focus + Eldritch Heritage for additional flavor and utility. Nature Soul and Animal Ally for an AC. Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) plus Improved Familiar for a great familiar using your insane UMD.

3) You have plenty of spell slots per day and you can heal between encounters:
You can save many charges of CLW wands but don't blow any spell slot on healing. For when you disable the melee brute with Debiliating Portent cutting his damage in half kill some critter with a well placed Flame Strike or block the enemy caster off with Wall of Stone. You will delay or nullify damage more damage most of the time with tactical use of your spells instead of healing up and lacking spell slots.

4) Play a race that has "add a spell that is one level below your maximum level to your spont. casting list":
That's why Half-Elfs and Humans are the superior choices here. You may ask your DM to allow other races this bonus too (because it very much more powerful and only improves options, not general power allowing him to diversify his game). It's always sad for a PC to be locked in racially because one race option is so vastly superior.

5) Don't try to be a cleric:
You can't be a cleric and your fluff and crunch heavily discourages that. If you want a devoted servant of god x, play a cleric. Your spells are locked in, they're gifts that are not taken away if you abuse them. Your revelations often point heavily towards one god but please dont do the mistake I made and focus on one god in the pantheon (and realize later that your spells must've come from different ones).