Question concerning Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike!?

[frogglesmash]

I know I'm probably not the first person to ask this question, but how in the nine hells are Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike supposed to work together? The way I'm reading it you get an infinite damage loop. Am I reading this right or has this already been disproven?

[Curmudgeon]

They're not supposed to work together; i.e., your character doesn't qualify for Beast Strike with Eldritch Claws.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +5, Improved Unarmed Strike, claw or slam attack

Once you form your eldritch claws they remain until just before the beginning of your next turn.
Level advancement is immediate when your DM awards the XP (see Player's Handbook on page 58: EXPERIENCE AND LEVELS), but that's dependent on a challenge being overcome (see Dungeon Master's Guide on pages 36-37: EXPERIENCE AWARDS). When a combat challenge is overcome the game is no longer on combat timing and conditions dependent on combat timing "until just before the beginning of your next turn" are no longer in effect.

turn

The point in the round at which you take your action(s). On your turn, you may perform one or more actions, as dictated by your current circumstances.

round

A 6-second unit of game time used to manage combat.
Because your Eldritch Claws don't exist when you advance a level, you do not qualify to take Beast Strike.

[frogglesmash]

But getting yourself claws from another source in order to qualify is a fairly trivial task i.e. skeletal arm graft (though I'm sure there are better methods), so the question still stands.

[Uncle Pine]

I know I'm probably not the first person to ask this question, but how in the nine hells are Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike supposed to work together? The way I'm reading it you get an infinite damage loop. Am I reading this right or has this already been disproven?

When you manifest Eldritch Claws, you gain two claws attacks that deal unarmed damage plus eldritch blast damage. If you have Beast Strike, you can add your claw or slam damage to your unarmed attacks. Since your claw damage is unarmed damage plus eldritch blast damage, your unarmed attacks now deal unarmed damage plus unarmed damage plus eldritch blast damage (= unarmed damage*2 plus eldritch blast damage).
At this point the chain ends. This is because your unarmed damage is unmodified: you simply add your claw damage on top of it when attacking, which means that you don't have to recalculate the damage from your Eldritch Claws.

I assume you know that these two feats work very well because they enable you to gain iteratives with your Eldritch Claws while dealing twice Greater Mighty Wallop damage, but I'll mention it anyway, just in case.

[Kesnit]

Because your Eldritch Claws don't exist when you advance a level, you do not qualify to take Beast Strike.

Since there is no requirement that a PC be in combat to manifest Eldritch Claws, all someone has to do is manifest claws and then level.

[Curmudgeon]

Since there is no requirement that a PC be in combat to manifest Eldritch Claws, all someone has to do is manifest claws and then level.
Turns do not exist except in combat timing. Eldritch Claws only last until before your next turn.

[frogglesmash]

When you manifest Eldritch Claws, you gain two claws attacks that deal unarmed damage plus eldritch blast damage. If you have Beast Strike, you can add your claw or slam damage to your unarmed attacks. Since your claw damage is unarmed damage plus eldritch blast damage, your unarmed attacks now deal unarmed damage plus unarmed damage plus eldritch blast damage (= unarmed damage*2 plus eldritch blast damage).
At this point the chain ends. This is because your unarmed damage is unmodified: you simply add your claw damage on top of it when attacking, which means that you don't have to recalculate the damage from your Eldritch Claws.

I assume you know that these two feats work very well because they enable you to gain iteratives with your Eldritch Claws while dealing twice Greater Mighty Wallop damage, but I'll mention it anyway, just in case.

So what you're saying is that because of some weird wording (i.e. only modifying the damage you deal when you make an unarmed attack as opposed to actually modifying your unarmed damage) WotC managed to narrowly avoid a game breaking combo seemingly by accident?

And no, I was not aware of the mighty wallop combo, I was only looking at Warlock related stuff because one of my PCs may be rolling one up for my campaign.

[Kesnit]

Turns do not exist except in combat timing. Eldritch Claws only last until before your next turn.

Using that interpretation, claws manifest outside combat would last until combat started. Again, plenty of time to level up before the claws go away.

[frogglesmash]

Using that interpretation, claws manifest outside combat would last until combat started. Again, plenty of time to level up before the claws go away.

Either that, or abilities with durations measured in rounds are unusable when combat is not in progress as rounds apparently cease to exist when combat ends.

[Uncle Pine]

So what you're saying is that because of some weird wording (i.e. only modifying the damage you deal when you make an unarmed attack as opposed to actually modifying your unarmed damage) WotC managed to narrowly avoid a game breaking combo seemingly by accident?

I'd say so, as surprisingly as it may sound.