chain mail and shirt

[Ettina]

Can you wear both an enchanted shirt and chainmail chest armour?

Also, could you hide your chainmail under your shirt?

[Keltest]

I don't know why you would want to wear chainmail underneath your shirt, id imagine it would be significantly uncomfortable. However yes, you can wear a magical shirt and a magical suit of armor and benefit from both of them simultaneously.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Yes. Armor occupies the body slot, shirts the torso slot.

There aren't really any rules about hiding armor under clothing, but the description of some magical chainmail mentions that it's fine enough to be worn under clothes.

Also metal armor typically comes with padding, so it's not like you'd be wearing the metal against your skin.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There aren't really any rules about hiding armor under clothing, but the description of some magical chainmail mentions that it's fine enough to be worn under clothes.
If anyone asks, cite Lord of the Rings.

[DrMotives]

Chain mail is pretty heavy stuff, it's worn with a thick undercoat to prevent chafing. You'd have bloody shoulders and back from the rings if you skipped the undercoat, but that's part of the armor, so it's not listed separately in your gear. Swapping out that undercoat with an exotic material is exactly what thistledown is. As far as a shirt over the chain, that'd be the tabard. Chainmail is depicted with a tabard (brightly colored sleeveless tunic overcoat) more often than without, but it's not part of the armor per se. That'd be your shirt / vest enchantment slot. Of course, style-wise you could have one that's tailored very differently than a traditional tabard, that's really a fluff description that doesn't mess with the mechanics at all.

As far as chain armor disguised under normal clothes, that'd be a chain shirt, not chain mail. The mithral chain shirt is the armor featured in LoTR, which Frodo did wear under normal clothes without his companions knowing, and even slept in. The books mention the rings left impressions on his skin when he slept, but not bruises or discomfort. You couldn't do that with full chain mail.

[gorfnab]

I wear this chain shirt (http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_25&products_id=262&zenid=l00k8n1nrjp9ridb7o5k9t8al6) underneath garb when I do SCA fencing. Even though it's steel, it still weighs half of the listed weight for a d&d mithral chain shirt.

[Rubik]

http://flakypastry.runningwithpencils.com/comics/060519-1930-Falingard.jpg (http://flakypastry.runningwithpencils.com/comic.php?strip_id=56)

[WeaselGuy]

I wear this chain shirt (http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_25&products_id=262&zenid=l00k8n1nrjp9ridb7o5k9t8al6) underneath garb when I do SCA fencing. Even though it's steel, it still weighs half of the listed weight for a d&d mithral chain shirt.

Heh... I'm actually considering doing the same thing. I'm just trying to figure out how the internal temperature would compare versus standard fencing tunics and multi-layer homemade tunics with regards to the heat in central TX.

[shaikujin]

I wear this chain shirt (http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_25&products_id=262&zenid=l00k8n1nrjp9ridb7o5k9t8al6) underneath garb when I do SCA fencing. Even though it's steel, it still weighs half of the listed weight for a d&d mithral chain shirt.

That is AWESOME!

OK, burning question, how many individual links are in your chain shirt, do you reckon?

Trying to figure out how many fine sized animated objects a nanobot build can make from 1 a chainshirt...

[Sacrieur]

You can even wear armor on top of armor. Armor bonuses don't stack, but still, pretty neat.

[SinsI]

If we are talking about actual mail armor, shirt is a part of it...

[Jay R]

Heh... I'm actually considering doing the same thing. I'm just trying to figure out how the internal temperature would compare versus standard fencing tunics and multi-layer homemade tunics with regards to the heat in central TX.

Well, I love my chainmail coif when fencing in the Steppes (Dallas). It's much cooler than the linen one it replaced, since it lets in the wind. The only reason I don't have a shirt is that it doesn't look right for the Renaissance. I know two Texans who fence in chain shirts and love them.

[WeaselGuy]

Well, I love my chainmail coif when fencing in the Steppes (Dallas). It's much cooler than the linen one it replaced, since it lets in the wind. The only reason I don't have a shirt is that it doesn't look right for the Renaissance. I know two Texans who fence in chain shirts and love them.

Yeah, my persona is late 16th century Spain, so I'm not even entirely certain it would look right for me either, but where there's a will, there's a tailor, am I right?

edit: also, I'm in Hellsgate (Fort Hood).

[Ettina]

By the way, the reason I asked is because I had an idea of a cleric wearing a shirt of wraith stalking, and I was wondering if he'd need to sacrifice armor for it. Sounds like the answer's no.

[Chronos]

Do note, however, that if a shirt gives you an armor bonus (such as if it had Magic Vestment cast on it), that won't stack with armor (though you'd still get any other benefits the shirt gives you).

[gorfnab]

Heh... I'm actually considering doing the same thing. I'm just trying to figure out how the internal temperature would compare versus standard fencing tunics and multi-layer homemade tunics with regards to the heat in central TX.
I wear a Starter Men's Long Sleeve Performance Compression Top (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Starter-Men-s-Long-Sleeve-Performance-Compression-Top/23991191) (some of my friends wear the UNDER ARMOUR equivalent ones but those are expensive) underneath the chain shirt. Over the top of the chain shirt I just wear an almost tissue weight linen shirt. During practices though I just wear the Starter shirt and the chain shirt. The combination of the Starter shirt and the chain shirt is cooler and breathes better than the bottom weight linen shirt and silk/linen layered fencing doublet I wore previously.

[WeaselGuy]

I wear a Starter Men's Long Sleeve Performance Compression Top (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Starter-Men-s-Long-Sleeve-Performance-Compression-Top/23991191) (some of my friends wear the UNDER ARMOUR equivalent ones but those are expensive) underneath the chain shirt. Over the top of the chain shirt I just wear an almost tissue weight linen shirt. During practices though I just wear the Starter shirt and the chain shirt. The combination of the Starter shirt and the chain shirt is cooler and breathes better than the bottom weight linen shirt and silk/linen layered fencing doublet I wore previously.

See, I like that idea. Currently I wear a karate gi underneath a long sleeve linen shirt with a vest over top of that. Quite unpleasant this time of year. But an athletic shirt + chain + linen shirt would be fantastic. Then I can just put my doublet on after I'm done fencing, and be ready for court.

[Chronos]

And totally anachronistic, but I guess that's right there in the name.

[Brother Oni]

That is AWESOME!

OK, burning question, how many individual links are in your chain shirt, do you reckon?

Trying to figure out how many fine sized animated objects a nanobot build can make from 1 a chainshirt...

Most mail shirts tend to be in 10-20 thousand range, depending on link size, weave and coverage; the links used in the shirt listed are very fine, the coverage is less than a full hauberk and it looks like standard European 4 in 1 weave.

The page says that each link is 5.3mm in width, made out of 0.62mm diameter wire and the shirt weighs 5lbs (2.273kg) for shipping purposes.

Back of envelope calculations makes each link a tube of metal with a cross section of (PI*0.31^2) 0.30 mm2 with a length of (2*PI*2.65mm) 16.65mm which gives each link a volume of 5.03mm3.

Taking the density of stainless steel to be 8,000 kg/m3, each link weighs 0.04g, so that mail shirt should have somewhere in the region of 56.5 thousand links, which seems off to me - that shipping weight of 5lbs is probably overly heavy, which is throwing off the calculations.