What Makes a Sorcerer Good?

[Gale]

I’ve been doing research on Sorcerers for the last couple days in attempt to build a character for an upcoming campaign. I feel I’m missing something though because I don’t really see why the class is regarded as being stronger than most of the other classes, at least not at lower levels. Can someone explain to me some of the strengths of the class? More specifically how strong is it from levels 1 to 12? (I don’t suspect the campaign I’ll be playing in will go much further beyond that.)

[Red Fel]

I’ve been doing research on Sorcerers for the last couple days in attempt to build a character for an upcoming campaign. I feel I’m missing something though because I don’t really see why the class is regarded as being stronger than most of the other classes, at least not at lower levels. Can someone explain to me some of the strengths of the class? More specifically how strong is it from levels 1 to 12? (I don’t suspect the campaign I’ll be playing in will go much further beyond that.)

Well, first we need to distinguish "strength" - that is, advantage or ability - from "power" - that is, raw destructive power. In terms of the former, the Sorcerer is considered Tier 2 - the base chassis allows you to design a Sorcerer who can do pretty much any given task, often better than the class designed to do it. However, it lacks the total versatility of the Tier 1 classes; while it can do pretty much anything, it can't do it all at once. In terms of the latter, it's still an arcane caster, and Sorcerers form the core of many highly effective pewpew builds. (See e.g. the Mailman.)

Now, in terms of raw power at low levels, you have to remember the Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard rule. At low levels, "mundane" classes have more survivability and more consistent damage output. There is a proviso, however; there are a number of effective low-level spells that can neutralize targets very quickly. While a non-caster at low-level is reliant solely on damage output, your Sorcerer has a number of battlefield control options fairly early. This becomes even more pronounced in Pathfinder (you didn't mention whether this was PF or 3.X), which gave Sorcerers a lot of love, a better BAB progression, and cool bloodlines.

The gist, which can be found in various Sorcerer handbooks, boils down to this - the Sorcerer gets arcane spells, which are already potent, and doesn't have to prepare them in advance. His selection is more limited, but more reusable - as long as he has slots, he can spam his favorite spells, rather than having to prepare multiple instances.

[galan]

a sorcerer is a slightly worse wizard, which is still really strong. he got the best spell list in the game, and can get into some of the best prestige classes in the game (and should, because of no class features).

also, kobold cheese can make sorcerers even stronger if you want to really surpress the wizard in some ways

[HalfQuart]

Are you referring to JaronK's Tier System (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=khsp8f5dm6eucvrufnk9j80ls0&topic=5293)? If so, you can read his rational for why Sorcerers are Tier 2 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4919.0). The gist of the tier system is to evaluate the classes essentially by versatility -- how good is each class at contributing effectively to a wide variety of different challenges? It assumes an equal level of optimization of each class, while recognizing that Player > Optimization > Class.

That said, I do think Sorcerers and many other spellcasters don't really begin to shine until mid to high levels.. maybe levels 6+.

There are also some highly optimized Sorcerer builds -- take for example The Mailman (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1765181)... but once again, it's major power doesn't really come online until after level 6 when it starts Incantatrix. And of course Incantatrix is PGtF, so games that don't include Forgotten Realms content won't have access to the high end side of the Mailman concept (although the general concept still works fine).

Does that sort of address what you're asking?

[dextercorvia]

An effectively built Sorcerer can completely finish many appropriate CR encounters with a single spell. This ability starts at level 1 (Sleep, Color Spray) and continues to level 20 (Gate, Wish, etc). They can instead buff their comrades making each encounter easier (Enlarge Person, Invisibility, Haste, Polymorph, and Mind Blank). They can debuff their enemies and control the battlefield, again making encounters dramatically easier: (Grease, Web, Slow, and Solid Fog). They can provide strategic and tactical teleportation (From Benign or Baleful Transposition through Teleport). If you choose carefully, you can cover all of these roles sufficiently, or you can focus on a narrower subset and be a specialist. If you choose appropriate spells, you will always have something that will help and always have a slot left to cast it.

Edit: Except for Benign/Baleful Transposition, every spell I listed was in core. If you go outside of core, they have many more options.

[nedz]

Well Sorcerer 1 > Wizard 1 — simply because 4 spells from 2 is better than 2 spells from half a dozen.
At level 2 they are about the same, and from level 3 onwards Wizard pulls ahead because they have more options.

A level 1 Sorcerer with Colour Spray, Silent Image and Daze is pretty useful in many situations — though a 1st level Beguiler has these, and more, options. A level 1 Sorcerer could take different spells of course — Enlarge Person + Fist of Stone, say, is a reasonable base for a Gish type character.

To answer your question: Spell selection.
You have to plan ahead, about 4 levels, and choose your new spells of the highest level available as ones you wish to spam.
You also have to limit the number of spells you want to swap out later.

[LudicSavant]

Well-played spellcasters are strong straight from the get-go. Things like Silent Image, Sleep, Grease, or Wall of Smoke can win encounters outright.

Even if you just want to do straight damage for some reason, you have options available straight from low levels to burst someone down. For example, you can share Light of Lunia to your familiar for a handy 8d6 at level 1.

[AvatarVecna]

Sorcerers are specialist casters: they choose their spells known so that they can be excellent at a certain sub-set of all tasks, usually with some sort of theme. The sorcerers ability to contribute to tasks that fall outside of his specialty is rather limited, but within his specialty, he is supreme. The wizard's strength is that, as the situation demands, they can be a fairly competent infiltrator, manipulator, scout, and carpet bomber. The problem is that they are balanced so that, because they get to make that choice daily, they're not as good at the job as a specialist would be. A sorcerer specializing in manipulation will far outclass the wizard at the same task...but the wizard will be superior at the others. A Mailman sorcerer is a better blaster than a wizard could ever hope to be...but they're terrible at everything else. The trick with sorcerers is to live by the phrase "when all you have is a hammer, the whole world seems to be made of nails": you have one, maybe two tools at your disposal; if you can find a way to make what you've got suffice for every situation, it'll be fine.

[Pluto!]

Spells.
>_>


Honestly, I don't think Sorcerers are all that impressive between levels 2 and 5, but once they hit level 6, with a couple level 2 and 3 spells available, I think they start to hit that point where a character's combat and problem-solving ability is more bound by player skill than class limitations.

[Bad Wolf]

Because they can play with the magic and your minds.

But basically spellcasting is huge.

[Urpriest]

Sorcerers are specialist casters: they choose their spells known so that they can be excellent at a certain sub-set of all tasks, usually with some sort of theme. The sorcerers ability to contribute to tasks that fall outside of his specialty is rather limited, but within his specialty, he is supreme. The wizard's strength is that, as the situation demands, they can be a fairly competent infiltrator, manipulator, scout, and carpet bomber. The problem is that they are balanced so that, because they get to make that choice daily, they're not as good at the job as a specialist would be. A sorcerer specializing in manipulation will far outclass the wizard at the same task...but the wizard will be superior at the others. A Mailman sorcerer is a better blaster than a wizard could ever hope to be...but they're terrible at everything else. The trick with sorcerers is to live by the phrase "when all you have is a hammer, the whole world seems to be made of nails": you have one, maybe two tools at your disposal; if you can find a way to make what you've got suffice for every situation, it'll be fine.

Eh, that's...one way to do it.

The other option is to focus on toolbox spells, and pack a few powerful options that cover a wide range of bases. Solo's guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0) espouses this sort of strategy.

[Pluto!]

How many spells are needed for a dedicated blaster?
Shapechange (9), Greater Spell Fusion (8), Arcane Spellsurge (7), Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability (6), Contingency (6), Spell Fusion (5), Assay Spell Resistance (4), Celerity (4), plus the blasting spells themselves (probably a grab-bag of Wings of Flurry, Orb of Fire, Enervation and Ray of Stupidity before getting into the weird stuff).

Even going deep in the rapid-firing weeds, there should still be 15-20 spells known left for control, buffs, teleports, save-or-x's and utility effects.

[Hellborn_Blight]

Simplicity. Base at least, you only have so many options, so if you build to a theme you have to be pretty dedicated. That can be a strength instead of a weakness, because while you'll never be batman, you can be the Rich good looking Bruce Wayne and give the D to all the Bs.

But on a less vulgar note, I think you have a stronger basis to roleplay from. While I think they should have gotten a few extra skill points base over wizard, they do at least get to take advantage of their high charisma for NPC interaction. In addition, Sorcerers are supposed to be rarer than wizards, at least among the "civilized" races, because they are supposed to have some sort of reason to have innate magic. That is a great hook to exploit for character development and RPing, and your rarity adds mystique to your abilities.

[Darkweave31]

As has been said, spellcasting in the hands of a player who knows how to make the most of their spells is the strongest ability of any class. Spellcasting is one of the sorcerer's two class features, the other being familiar, and it is from arguably the best list of spells.

[Gale]

I guess my problem is I don't really understand how I should go about using spells effectively. I understand the battlefield control spells are really good, but the blasts always felt really underwhelming compared to what I've been able to pull off with melee or ranged characters in the past, especially considering that spells are limited.
I suppose Sorcerers aren't supposed to blast things at lower levels.

[Glimbur]

In general, blasting is not your best choice. As you pointed out, the barbarian or ranger can do hp damage all day long; what you should do is make their job easier. Grease, web, haste, glitterdust, wall of [X], solid fog, dispel magic (situational), and so on. Blasting has its place, but you will often get more bang for your spell-slot with a buff or debuff.

[dextercorvia]

I guess my problem is I don't really understand how I should go about using spells effectively. I understand the battlefield control spells are really good, but the blasts always felt really underwhelming compared to what I've been able to pull off with melee or ranged characters in the past, especially considering that spells are limited.
I suppose Sorcerers aren't supposed to blast things at lower levels.

Unless you build for it, blasting will always feel underwhelming. For a basic low level sorcerer, I like picking one or two spells that targets each save, along with Heighten Spell and Sculpt Spell. My personal favorites at low level are BFC/debuff combos like Sticky Floor, Wall of Smoke, and Color Spray (1st level choices) and Kelgore's Gravemist and Glitterdust (2nd level choices)

Sculpted Sticky Floor is better than Web. Sculpted Wall of Smoke behaves like some 2nd and even 3rd level spells. If I'm starting at 3rd level or higher, I ignore Color Spray. Those spells keep opponents locked down, or at least reduce their effectiveness.

[ericgrau]

The spell list pretty much. Same reason a wizard is good, though of course with other differences besides the spell list. Pick your spells nearly the same way you would when preparing a general purpose wizard list for the unknown. Yeah battlefield control is good like others have said. I've built a couple sorcerers who rarely did any damage and they didn't miss it.

Actually at low level I do like to pick up flaming sphere and then fireball (soon ditching flaming sphere). It's at higher level that it becomes less and less about damage except maybe as a secondary option, and more about pure support (BFC, 24 hour buffs, haste, utility scrolls, etc.). The key with both flaming sphere and fireball is that you hit multiple times or multiple targets. Flaming sphere also combos well with web for both extra damage per round and extra rounds that they're stuck taking damage and not attacking. Also fire resistance and SR are rare at low level, whereas you might still fight foes immune to other things such as zombies at low level.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I guess my problem is I don't really understand how I should go about using spells effectively. I understand the battlefield control spells are really good, but the blasts always felt really underwhelming compared to what I've been able to pull off with melee or ranged characters in the past, especially considering that spells are limited.
I suppose Sorcerers aren't supposed to blast things at lower levels.
Blasting doesn't get good unless you put a lot of resources (ie, metamagic) into it. What makes a caster offensively potent is, as others have pointed out, the ability to remove an enemy from play with a single action. Even in a first-level, core-only environment, things like color spray and cause fear can shut enemies out for long enough for mundanes to kick the spit out of them. And it only gets worse from there. Sure, it's probably not as likely to work as stabbing something, but a 50% chance to end the fight is probably better than a 75% chance to deal 10% damage.