Pathfinder - My Demon is dead. Any way I can bring her back?

[Plaguemask]

Sooo, yeah.
Our DM allowed us to have Lawful Good demons if we could explain it (Turns out I'm good at that.) and we could also make custom races.
So I make a race called Suksubilie that's bound to the Plane of Lust, often as servants to the 'purer' demons (Succubi, etc.) And I simply had my character be uncorrupted by the Incubus'/Succubi's influence.
But that's irrelevant.
My Paladin Demon named Celia just died, a character I actually put a month of effort into making and tweaking. Since Demons don't 'die', they're just returned to their home plane, is she actually *dead* at all? Does the party need to find a Summoner or Cleric to get her back? Can they even get her back? Is it possible to summon a specific lesser (Or least demon.) at all if all you've got to go on is her ashes, a picture of her sister, the symbol of her Deity (Iomdae) and her name?
I'dd really appreciate an answer because I *really* don't like my idea for a backup character which is some homebrewed class and just blergh.
Basically feeling as if everything's craipe :P
Doesn't help that our DM is a complete newb (First time DM'ing. He's still doing a decent job.) and even after I tutored him on doing boss-encounters he still mucked up (I'm a rather mediocre DM.)
Basically, our party is level 1, and this is our setup: A high AC Rogue, a Dhampir Oracle, a furry/fox Samurai and a Demon Paladin. Generally, a rather weird setup.
Our boss encounter was this: Four goblins, two archers, one warrior and the boss. The boss had one level in Fighter, an enchanted sword (Longsword +1.) and a Masterwork Handaxe. Suffice to say that my poor Demon had to tank him pretty hard (18 AC? Still gets crapped on by his +5atk Goblin.)
The goblin one-shot me. I had 8/15 health from a previous encounter, the goblin hits (Of course.) and deal 13 damage to me.
I die on the spot.
The party proceeded to loot all my belongings (Including the silver holy symbol, which pissed me off.)

[alchemyprime]

Hm... a suggestion that I don't mind your GM reading, but I would hope the rest of the party could avoid.

As such, I shall put it in a spoiler.
Make your paladin over as a human, and make a new quest to go to the Plane of Lust and retrieve her.
Make the party fight their way through many spellcasting, enchantment and evocation slinging demons.
Allow them to kill a minor "Noble Lust Demon" (here noble meaning she controls a small part of the plane, perhaps has the Sorcerer or Cleric template/levels on top of Succubus?)
And then, after it's done, sort of "fuse" the old character, held in a cage, to the new one.
Making a composite, similar to Donald Blake and Thor, that secretly the succubus' "essence" was inside the human, while her body was held as a trophy - the one suksubilie paladin that Noble had ever seen.
Now that they're fused, play the old suksubilie with the equipment and levels of the human. A new, stronger version of what she once was.
But I'm just a comic/tokusatsu nerd, so that might be a little "superhero-y" for your group.
Just an idea. Good luck! :smallwink:

[Plaguemask]

Hm... a suggestion that I don't mind your GM reading, but I would hope the rest of the party could avoid.

As such, I shall put it in a spoiler.
Make your paladin over as a human, and make a new quest to go to the Plane of Lust and retrieve her.
Make the party fight their way through many spellcasting, enchantment and evocation slinging demons.
Allow them to kill a minor "Noble Lust Demon" (here noble meaning she controls a small part of the plane, perhaps has the Sorcerer or Cleric template/levels on top of Succubus?)
And then, after it's done, sort of "fuse" the old character, held in a cage, to the new one.
Making a composite, similar to Donald Blake and Thor, that secretly the succubus' "essence" was inside the human, while her body was held as a trophy - the one suksubilie paladin that Noble had ever seen.
Now that they're fused, play the old suksubilie with the equipment and levels of the human. A new, stronger version of what she once was.
But I'm just a comic/tokusatsu nerd, so that might be a little "superhero-y" for your group.
Just an idea. Good luck! :smallwink:


Well, the party just hit Level 2, and while I'm sure they could collectively battle a *single* Succubus (ECL 4.) with difficulties, I'm not sure if they'll be able to battle someone that can fling the Sleep spell at them.

[Keltest]

Find a high level spellcaster who can use plane shift (or whatever Pathfinder uses). Offer the party's services as thugs/gofers/whatever minion the caster needs in exchange for the services. Its a good plot hook if the DM goes for it, allows for the character to be retrieved with minimal difficulty, and leaves it open as a resource in the future should a similar situation occur.

[Plaguemask]

Find a high level spellcaster who can use plane shift (or whatever Pathfinder uses). Offer the party's services as thugs/gofers/whatever minion the caster needs in exchange for the services. Its a good plot hook if the DM goes for it, allows for the character to be retrieved with minimal difficulty, and leaves it open as a resource in the future should a similar situation occur.

Yeah, I believe this was his original idea. We'll see what he thinks, as I'm running these suggestions by him in real-time.

[Keltest]

Yeah, I believe this was his original idea. We'll see what he thinks, as I'm running these suggestions by him in real-time.

My knowledge of Pathfinder is sharply limited, however typically demons and devils can be summoned using just their name if it is known. However usually being killed adds some limitations onto this (IE can only be summoned by their killer for a year). Ultimately its up to your DM what restrictions, if any, apply in their setting, so long as theyre prepared to stick with it consistently.

[Plaguemask]

My knowledge of Pathfinder is sharply limited, however typically demons and devils can be summoned using just their name if it is known. However usually being killed adds some limitations onto this (IE can only be summoned by their killer for a year). Ultimately its up to your DM what restrictions, if any, apply in their setting, so long as theyre prepared to stick with it consistently.

Well shucks, my party killed the Goblin after it killed me.

[Keltest]

Well shucks, my party killed the Goblin after it killed me.

Again, its up to your DM if they want to actually handle it like that. Rule 0 and all that.

[Vhaidara]

Well, the party just hit Level 2, and while I'm sure they could collectively battle a *single* Succubus (ECL 4.) with difficulties, I'm not sure if they'll be able to battle someone that can fling the Sleep spell at them.

As a note, no, you couldn't. Between it's DR and the negative levels it can dish out, your friends would be brutally slaughtered. And that ignores the SLAs. Oh, and Succubus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus) is CR 7.

Barring that speed bump, I support Alchemy's plan.

[Plaguemask]

Again, its up to your DM if they want to actually handle it like that. Rule 0 and all that.

He says that he'dd expect the party to be able to go and fight Succubi/the like by level 6, and I (As a slightly more experienced DM) think that with our party setup, with some experience on the Samurai's side, they'd be able to do it at level 5.
Still, that leaves me with having to play a hombrewed class that can fill a roll that the party can't (A niche class.) for several levels, which would probably translate into 4-6 weeks, just to bring back a low-level Paladin.
I'm sure he'dd love to just be able to bring her back, but lore consistancy and all that makes it a bit hard.

[Keltest]

He says that he'dd expect the party to be able to go and fight Succubi/the like by level 6, and I (As a slightly more experienced DM) think that with our party setup, with some experience on the Samurai's side, they'd be able to do it at level 5.
Still, that leaves me with having to play a hombrewed class that can fill a roll that the party can't (A niche class.) for several levels, which would probably translate into 4-6 weeks, just to bring back a low-level Paladin.
I'm sure he'dd love to just be able to bring her back, but lore consistancy and all that makes it a bit hard.

Again, the possibility theoretically exists. There are a variety of spells that can be used to just summon outsiders permanently, and all you need is their name. It's up to your DM if they want to create/enforce any restrictions on such spells cause by the death of the outsider in the material plane.

[Plaguemask]

Again, the possibility theoretically exists. There are a variety of spells that can be used to just summon outsiders permanently, and all you need is their name. It's up to your DM if they want to create/enforce any restrictions on such spells cause by the death of the outsider in the material plane.

I'll run it by him. Thanks for your help. *Bows*

[Garktz]

i believe its easier the other way around...
Celia a couple of days later just comes back, now she asked a couple of favours to some short of higher rank in the plan she.s from

you guys can just leave it there and DM has a plot hook for whenever he wants and has the time to plan around it an use it when needed

[Plaguemask]

As a note, no, you couldn't. Between it's DR and the negative levels it can dish out, your friends would be brutally slaughtered. And that ignores the SLAs. Oh, and Succubus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus) is CR 7.

Barring that speed bump, I support Alchemy's plan.

Ah, sorry. My memory's a bit foggy. My party is generally a bit stronger than the average level 1 party, seeing as we all have custom races (As long as we could explain them.)
For example, we have a Ranger (Which could not participate in the game where I died and was thusly not mentioned.) which can ignore things like Sneak Attacks and I think one Negative Level or something like that.

[Plaguemask]

i believe its easier the other way around...
Celia a couple of days later just comes back, now she asked a couple of favours to some short of higher rank in the plan she.s from

you guys can just leave it there and DM has a plot hook for whenever he wants and has the time to plan around it an use it when needed

I'dd rather not rack up a debt with demons :P
On a more serious note, I don't think *any* demon would want the LG Paladin back where she has her weapons.

[Eldaran]

Since Demons don't 'die', they're just returned to their home plane, is she actually *dead* at all? Does the party need to find a Summoner or Cleric to get her back? Can they even get her back?

There are three ways for an outsider (like a demon) to be on the material plane. The two common ways are calling and summoning spells (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Conjuration-Calling), if your character was there as a result of a calling spell (like planar ally) then you're dead and don't reform at all. If you were there as a result of a summon spell, which are usually very short duration, that is the only case in which your character would reform in their home plane. The third way you could be there is if you were simply plane shifted there or got there via some other interdimensional travel, in which case you're also dead and don't reform.

To complicate this problem, not only are you dead, you can only be brought back by True Resurrection or similar expensive and very high level spells. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Outsider) The only exception here is if you were born on the material plane, in which case you count as a native outsider and can be brought back by regular old Raise Dead.



The goblin one-shot me. I had 8/15 health from a previous encounter, the goblin hits (Of course.) and deal 13 damage to me.
I die on the spot.


However, I question how you're dead here. It looks like you only dropped to -5 HP, so unless you were then finished by a coup de grace or bled out (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Dying) you should still be alive though unconscious.

[Plaguemask]

There are three ways for an outsider (like a demon) to be on the material plane. The two common ways are calling and summoning spells (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Conjuration-Calling), if your character was there as a result of a calling spell (like planar ally) then you're dead and don't reform at all. If you were there as a result of a summon spell, which are usually very short duration, that is the only case in which your character would reform in their home plane. The third way you could be there is if you were simply plane shifted there or got there via some other interdimensional travel, in which case you're also dead and don't reform.

To complicate this problem, not only are you dead, you can only be brought back by True Resurrection or similar expensive and very high level spells. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Outsider) The only exception here is if you were born on the material plane, in which case you count as a native outsider and can be brought back by regular old Raise Dead.




However, I question how you're dead here. It looks like you only dropped to -5 HP, so unless you were then finished by a coup de grace or bled out (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Dying) you should still be alive though unconscious.

Got incinirated shortly after.

[Spore]

First learn from the mistake: Starting on 1st level is a dangerous game, even in Pathfinder. I know heroes have to start somewhere but 15 HP and no ability to use Lay on Hands (which the character is honestly balanced around) screams "kill me first".

Truenaming her back is a very good idea. Bonus points if the truename is now widely known and can be abused by the baddies intro controlling her.

[Plaguemask]

First learn from the mistake: Starting on 1st level is a dangerous game, even in Pathfinder. I know heroes have to start somewhere but 15 HP and no ability to use Lay on Hands (which the character is honestly balanced around) screams "kill me first".

Truenaming her back is a very good idea. Bonus points if the truename is now widely known and can be abused by the baddies intro controlling her.

Shhh, the only person that knows that her name is Usintarish is the party togue >.>
Although 15 Health on level 1 is still pretty tanky, especially with 18 AC and resistance to cold, electricity and fire (5.)

[Spore]

Although 15 Health on level 1 is still pretty tanky, especially with 18 AC and resistance to cold, electricity and fire (5.)

Compared to other 1st level characters yes. But nothing is tanky compared to attacks. A charging Goblinrider using a Lance and having mediocre strength of 14 can deal 2d6+12 on a lucky power attack. If he has a level as Cavalier and challenges you, you take 2w6+14 while he gets in his +4 attack(+2 from Str, +1 from class, +2 from charge, -1 from power attack).

There are several ways to get a damage bonus larger than your current max HP while still staying within relatively CR appropriate.


Shhh, the only person that knows that her name is Usintarish is the party togue >.>


That's a great hook to get her to use this name to summon her. Have the oracle provide the necessary rituals to summon you back and the Samurai has to swear an oath in order not to use her name for an unfair advantage.

[Plaguemask]

Compared to other 1st level characters yes. But nothing is tanky compared to attacks. A charging Goblinrider using a Lance and having mediocre strength of 14 can deal 2d6+12 on a lucky power attack. If he has a level as Cavalier and challenges you, you take 2w6+14 while he gets in his +4 attack(+2 from Str, +1 from class, +2 from charge, -1 from power attack).

There are several ways to get a damage bonus larger than your current max HP while still staying within relatively CR appropriate.



That's a great hook to get her to use this name to summon her. Have the oracle provide the necessary rituals to summon you back and the Samurai has to swear an oath in order not to use her name for an unfair advantage.

He was just a Goblin :<
Ah well, we'll see what happens 'till next saturday ^^

[Spore]

He was just a Goblin :<

That's what I thought when the Boogeyman killed my Half-Elf. It's just a puny fey, what can he do dangerous. (And I died to Phantasmal Killer no less.) To complete the circle, he was reincarnated as a goblin. Or as Kyras, the most handsome goblin of all realms (I mean Charisma 24, Bluff! Diplomacy! He could unite all goblin and kobold tribes to conquer the wo....well, a small kingdom.)

[With a box]

If there is a demon Paladin, I think she would be on watchlist of higher level cleric of her church. Can you persuade him/her to bring her back?

[Plaguemask]

If there is a demon Paladin, I think she would be on watchlist of higher level cleric of her church. Can you persuade him/her to bring her back?

Could consult the DM about it, but then again, I'm not certain if Clerics can bring demons into the world.

[With a box]

Could consult the DM about it, but then again, I'm not certain if Clerics can bring demons into the world.

don't forget limited wish can bring a demon back.


Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

well, let's hope the pope has wizard friend. and it's cheaper then raise dead, actually(1500gp vs RD's 5000gp)

[Plaguemask]

don't forget limited wish can bring a demon back.


well, let's hope the pope has wizard friend. and it's cheaper then raise dead, actually(1500gp vs RD's 5000gp)

She's a Native Outsider.

[Mystral]

Sooo, yeah.
Our DM allowed us to have Lawful Good demons if we could explain it (Turns out I'm good at that.) and we could also make custom races.
So I make a race called Suksubilie that's bound to the Plane of Lust, often as servants to the 'purer' demons (Succubi, etc.) And I simply had my character be uncorrupted by the Incubus'/Succubi's influence.
But that's irrelevant.
My Paladin Demon named Celia just died, a character I actually put a month of effort into making and tweaking. Since Demons don't 'die', they're just returned to their home plane, is she actually *dead* at all? Does the party need to find a Summoner or Cleric to get her back? Can they even get her back? Is it possible to summon a specific lesser (Or least demon.) at all if all you've got to go on is her ashes, a picture of her sister, the symbol of her Deity (Iomdae) and her name?
I'dd really appreciate an answer because I *really* don't like my idea for a backup character which is some homebrewed class and just blergh.
Basically feeling as if everything's craipe :P
Doesn't help that our DM is a complete newb (First time DM'ing. He's still doing a decent job.) and even after I tutored him on doing boss-encounters he still mucked up (I'm a rather mediocre DM.)
Basically, our party is level 1, and this is our setup: A high AC Rogue, a Dhampir Oracle, a furry/fox Samurai and a Demon Paladin. Generally, a rather weird setup.
Our boss encounter was this: Four goblins, two archers, one warrior and the boss. The boss had one level in Fighter, an enchanted sword (Longsword +1.) and a Masterwork Handaxe. Suffice to say that my poor Demon had to tank him pretty hard (18 AC? Still gets crapped on by his +5atk Goblin.)
The goblin one-shot me. I had 8/15 health from a previous encounter, the goblin hits (Of course.) and deal 13 damage to me.
I die on the spot.
The party proceeded to loot all my belongings (Including the silver holy symbol, which pissed me off.)

In D&D, there is a spell called "revive outsider" (It's in the spell compendium). It basically is a version of raise dead, just for outsiders. Also, there is no time limit.

So, go find a cleric who is willing to cast that spell. Be prepared to do some kind of quest for it, you can't afford such magic yet (ask the DM to let you make a replacement character to help with the quest if the NPC cleric doesn't cast it up front).