World of Warships: General Quarters!

[Yana]

WORLD OF WARSHIPS
(Now in Open Beta!)

Is another PvP game from our friends at Wargaming in the vein of World of Tanks where as the title would suggest, you command a ship with the intention of sinking another ship. The game is currently in closed beta, although you can buy your way into it by purchasing one of the preorder packages which nets you:

1 Month of Premium account status (increased experience and credit generation on all ships)
1,500 gold (Premium currency that can be used to purchase room for additional ships in your port, premium ships, or the ability to retrain your ship captains)
A premium ship of your choice (Either the Tier IV Japanese Cruiser Yubari, the Tier V Soviet Destroyer Gremyashchiy, or the Tier VII American Destroyer Sims)
And a slot in port for the premium ship that you purchased.

Having purchased my way into the closed beta with the USS Sims, I'm more than pleased with how the game is coming along so far. Sure, there's still a lot of unbalanced game mechanics floating around (Carriers are... not fun to play as in a bottom tier match) and map and nationality selections are limited (Only maybe 6 maps thus far and 2 nations with implemented tech trees, the US and Japan respectively), but overall I think this game is a fun simulation of naval combat in the early to mid 20th century.

Some terms/slang that may be useful for the uninitiated that I tend to run across:
BB: Battleship
DD: Destroyer
CA/CL: Cruiser
CV: Carrier
DB: Dive Bomber
Torp: Torpedos and/or torpedo bombers
AA: Anti-aircraft fire

If anyone is currently in the beta, or plans on joining, you can always contact me ingame (NA Server: Raltis).

Obligatory link to website: http://worldofwarships.com/

Very very useful "how to play" Youtube video by The Mighty Jingles: Mighty Jingles' World of Warships - How To Not Suck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOL-NwvY4MM)

Player listing for Giantitp by region (Giantitp username: WoWS Username)

Yana: Raltis
genmoose: genmoose
AdmiralCheez: AdmiralCheez
Janwin: Janwin
Longvin: Longvin
mangosta71: Thasaidon
rs2excelsior: PvtSnyder
Sayt: Saytael

Brother Oni: MarineHK4861
Abemad: Skovzzt
Maelstrom: CaptMaels
Sean Mirrsen: SeanMirrsen

[The Glyphstone]

How does it measure up to Tanks and Planes in the grinding-to-cash-shop ratio?

[Narkis]

I second that question. Also, how big is the typical map compared to the other Worlds? And am I correct in assuming that Carriers work like the artillery of WoT?

[Brother Oni]

I second that question. Also, how big is the typical map compared to the other Worlds? And am I correct in assuming that Carriers work like the artillery of WoT?

There are a couple of videos which demonstrate the game mechanics during the Alpha version and I find this video quite clear and concise: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebx89jbm2vw&index=3&list=PLSPT1I-KtyUGqtE1sFaWcQ8aNmdaEtfEU).

Carriers kinda work like WOT artillery, except their 'shells' can be intercepted (different ship classes have different AA capabilities with cruisers being the best at it - they can also act as forward AA screens for the rest of their fleet) and they also do their own spotting with scout planes.

[Yana]

Thank you, Oni, for posting the link to the Mighty Jingles. His videos were instrumental in teaching me how the game works in addition to being generally amusing. He does a good job of breaking down how each of the classes work in addition to a detailed history for some of the ships that he reviews.

Concerning the grinding: At the moment, the grind is not as terrible as it could be. Wargaming appears to have increased the amount of xp and credits gained per battle by at least 100% in order to get as many people to test the higher tiers as possible. I doubt this will remain the case by the time that the game goes into open beta, but it isn't terrible right now. Honestly, with the exception of the T3 Battleships (Both the Kawachii and the South Carolina), none of the ships are bad enough for me to consider them a grind. What makes this game different compared to WoT is that you can still deal damage despite being a few tiers lower than what you're firing at. Ever since they recently buffed HE damage, it's gotten even easier for lower tier ships and destroyers to take on battleships with guns (if not necessarily winning).

Map Sizes: Maps are huge compared to WoT, since combat ranges can extend up to around 20 km for Japanese battleships, the maps are correspondingly larger. I don't have a concrete number for the dimensions of any given map, just know that they're big enough where if you're fast enough, you can successfully run away and hide.

Artillery: Given that shell travel time is a major factor in this game, Carriers do not act as WoT artillery, per se. In my mind, they combine some of the aspects of cruisers (fighters to deal with other planes) and destroyers (torpedo bombers to cripple battleships) with dive bombers to round out their compliment by doling out precision strikes. The carrier interface turns the game effectively into a RTS where you micromanage the squadrons under your command. While it is true that a well placed torpedo bomber strike can take out a battleship, that's true for a destroyer torpedo spread or a broadside to the ship's citadel as well.

What I'm trying to say is that there's no stigma against carriers to the extent that the "sky cancer" of WoT has.

Ships are also wonderfully diverse by class which helps determine how they play. I actually prefer destroyers or cruisers because while their guns don't deal as much damage as a broadside from a battleship, they fire much more frequently and are consequently more likely to start fires. Since battleship turrets usually take a minute to rotate 180 degrees and take 30+ seconds to reload, they're too slow paced for me, especially when they do piddling damage with shots that overpenetrate the target.

It's also worth noting that American and Japanese ships fight significantly different due to their weapon loadouts. Destroyers are where this is most pronounced in my mind. Americans have good gun traverse rates and fire fast, but their torpedo range is abysmal (though they typically fire off more of them in a spread). Japanese destroyers have longer ranged and faster torpedoes which also do more damage, but their gun range is lower than that of American DDs and the traverse rate for their guns is pathetic (though Japanese destroyers are more stealthy, they can get closer to other ships before being spotted).

[Brother Oni]

What I'm trying to say is that there's no stigma against carriers to the extent that the "sky cancer" of WoT has.


At least, not yet. Wait until it gets into Open Beta and all the regular WoT players come in with their pre-conceived prejudices.

[GloatingSwine]

At least, not yet. Wait until it gets into Open Beta and all the regular WoT players come in with their pre-conceived prejudices.

From the videos I've seen, you can see torpedo bombers coming and take evasive action to at least minimise the impact (turning into the spread so it doesn't catch you broadside).

Which largely removes the reason that arty is cancer.

[Narkis]

There are a couple of videos which demonstrate the game mechanics during the Alpha version and I find this video quite clear and concise: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebx89jbm2vw&index=3&list=PLSPT1I-KtyUGqtE1sFaWcQ8aNmdaEtfEU).

Carriers kinda work like WOT artillery, except their 'shells' can be intercepted (different ship classes have different AA capabilities with cruisers being the best at it - they can also act as forward AA screens for the rest of their fleet) and they also do their own spotting with scout planes.

Very interesting. I now want to play the game, but not enough to buy it. When is the Open Beta expected?

[Yana]

That is a very good question. To my knowledge, they've not announced a date, though sometime over the summer seems to be a safe bet.

One of the more cynical possibilities that I've heard offered is that they won't have one and they'll just rely on people buying into it. Make of that what you will.

[Yana]

I'm going to do my best to break down every ship type by nation. Namely, between the USN (US Navy) and the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy).

Destroyers or DDs: These ships are ostensibly the scouts of any armada. They are the hardest class of ships to spot in the game (which is amplified by their ability to lay smoke screens which conceal any ship within them so long as a plane doesn't fly overhead), they have the fastest top speed, and they have the fastest rudder shift time/turning radius of any ship (which makes them the most maneuverable by far which allows them to dodge fire when they do get attacked). Their guns are small, maxing out at 127mm or 5" guns for the USN at least. Usually, their primary form of offense is the torpedo which in addition to dealing a lot of damage can also cripple critical systems such as the engines or rudder and also flood enemy ships which is a substantial DoT effect.

As I alluded to in one of my previous posts, American destroyers are much more reliant upon their cannons than the IJN equivalents. They fire significantly faster (one salvo every 5 seconds seems to be the norm when you get to higher tiers) which can add up in a hurry when you use HE and start setting fires, especially if the person you're shooting at is too busy fighting other ships to pay any attention. Their gun traverse rate is phenomenal, taking maybe 12 seconds on lower tier ships to swap from one side of the ship to the other (and even faster with higher tiers, the Sims and equivalent ships can swivel their guns from one extreme to the other in 6 seconds flat), which is a feat that the IJN DDs can't boast as it takes most of their turrets a good half a minute to turn. The downside to this amazing gun performance is that your torpedoes are... underwhelming. Yes, they still do a lot of damage to anyone they hit and you fire a lot of them in a spread compared to IJN DDs (USN t6 Farragut fires 4 torps in a spread compared to the IJN t6 Mutsuki's 3), but they typically travel at least 10 knots slower than the IJN torps and more importantly, their range is mediocre. It takes until t8 for American DDs to have torpedoes with a range of 10 km, the first time that torpedoes can be launched from outside the range at which your DD can be spotted. Unless you launch an ambush using an island for cover on your approach (and you should do this whenever possible, for obvious reasons), you will be spotted long before you get in torpedo range when you're driving an American DD. Consequently, American DDs are best at counter-destroyer tactics. You spot the enemy destroyer screen and work them over with your guns while dodging their fire as best you can and if possible, launch a spread of torpedoes when it becomes impossible for them to dodge.

These ships are the snipers of WoWs. They have the shortest detection range of any class of ship in the game, and starting by t4, they can start launching their torpedoes outside of the range at which they can be spotted, making it difficult for enemy ships to realize that they're in trouble. Combine that with a torpedo speed that is frequently twice the speed of the ships that you're firing at and you've got a menace on your hands. The downside to long-range and swift torpedoes is that your main guns are terrible. They may be the same caliber as the USN DDs, but their rate of fire and gun traverse (not to mention the number of guns as you climb up the tiers) pale in comparison to their Yankee counterparts. This means that IJN DDs are best suited to hunting the Carriers, Battleships, and to a lesser extent, Cruisers because if they get spotted by an American DD, they are close enough where it is difficult to dodge the blistering rate of fire that American DDs can put out.

Cruisers or CA/CL- This is probably my preferred class in the game because of one ship, the USN t6 Cleveland. Cruisers are the middle ground between battleships and destroyers, they are slower and less maneuverable than DDs, but are less armored and undergunned compared to BBs. What makes them stand apart from the rest of the ships in the game is the sheer RoF of their guns and the AA that they can put out. While cruisers can go it alone if necessary, it isn't encouraged. If there is an enemy carrier around and you're a t6 or higher cruiser, it is your job to glue yourself to a battleship's side and provide him with a flak curtain to discourage any inquisitive dive or torpedo bombers.

American cruisers go through two major permutations before reaching their standard form at t6 with the Cleveland. The T2 Chester and T3 St. Louis are effectively modernized men-o-war because of how their guns are situated. While they have a lot of guns (14 in the St. Louis's case), most of them are mounted in the sides of the ship with only a forward and aft cannon that can traverse 180 degrees. Moreover, they are slow and ungainly, being unable to outrun practically anything they'll face. The only saving grace that these ships have is their armor, which is another major departure from the remainder of the USN cruiser line. These ships have the armor to mitigate a lot of the damage from same or lower tier ships that they face, and their guns will dissuade anyone from getting too close.

Not so with the T4 Phoenix and T5 Omaha. These ships have effectively no armor (and are consequently very fragile) but are much faster and more maneuverable as a result. While most of the guns are still mounted on the sides of the ships, these two cruisers have a unique (for American CL/CA at least) ace in the hole, torpedoes. If you're fighting anything within 5.5 km, you can launch a surprise torpedo strike while keeping up a broadside that'll distract your foe long enough for the torpedoes to do their work. Of course, if you're close enough to launch torpedoes, you're also getting torn to shreds in the process because you have no armor. As I said in the American DD description, use whatever island cover you can find to mask your approach if you're making a torpedo run because if anyone with a brain realizes what you're about to do, they can just turn to avoid.

This leads to the T6 Cleveland and all of the ships after her. They are the first ships to have all of their main guns mounted in traversable turrets and consequently have much more flexibility with their engagements in addition to having secondary batteries that are worth a damn. The 4 turrets that the Cleveland sports house 12 152 mm or 6" guns that fire every 8 seconds. If you give your captain the Pyromanic skill that increases the chance for starting fires combined with shooting exclusively HE shells, you'll keep any ship you're aiming at permanently aflame. American CLs and the Cleveland in particular are the bane of any DD due to their high rate of fire, though perhaps less so for the t7-9 as their 203 mm or 8" guns have a noticeably slower RoF. Furthermore, starting with the Cleveland, American CLs become formidable AA ships as well with dozens of guns devoted to that task. From T6 onwards, USN CLs get an ability that increases the effectiveness of AA guns for a set period of time which makes it practically suicide for any plane to go near them. Unfortunately to make up for all of this firepower, they have minimal armor and no torpedoes. But who cares? You can drown the enemy in shells in the meantime!

Japanese cruisers have a unique trait throughout their line that American cruisers can't match. They always have torpedoes. If you've found yourself in a close in fight with a IJN CL, it's a safe bet that there are torpedoes in the water and that you should probably have started turning to port or starboard 20 seconds ago. This torpedo insanity reaches a peak with the premium t8 CL, the Kitakami, which has 4 quintuple torpedo tubes at two per side. That's right, this abomination can fire off 10 torpedoes in a heartbeat then turn about and do it again. IJN CLs also get 203 mm guns two tiers befor their USN equivalents starting at T5 which makes their guns very effective at dealing with other cruisers. However, their AA is nowhere near as potent as their American counterparts so they cannot escort battleships with the same efficiency. Their armor is also just as terrible as the American cruiser line, especially the Kitakami which is effectively a floating citadel (a citadel penetration= full damage on a shot. It rarely takes more than one broadside from a BB to sink a Kitakami).

Battleships or BBs: The big boys. These are the ships that everyone will pull out all the stops to sink, with good reason. A battleship is the heart of the fleet in any encounter. If your highest tier BB gets taken out in the first few minutes of a match, it's an ill omen for your team. In case it weren't obvious, these ships have the biggest guns in the game, with the T10 IJN Yamoto mounting a truly massive battery of 18" guns (most other ships range from 14" to 16"). The damage that these guns deal to other ships (provided you don't miss or the shells don't just go straight through) is enough to make any unfortunate recipient wish that they'd never crossed your path. The drawback to having such large guns however comes at both the rate of fire and turret traverse. A battleship typically takes at least 30 seconds between salvos to reload, a substantially longer load time than any other class of ship. The reload time isn't so bad compared to how long it takes to train the guns on a target. If you have to switch targets from the port to starboard, you can expect it to take about a minute for these guns to make the trip around. Turning your ship to help the guns bear is also not the most useful exercise as the rudder shift time (and consequently, turn time) on a Battleship is typically upwards of 20 seconds from full port to full starbord. Slightly alleviating this problem is the secondary batteries that BBs have. These automated guns open fire on any ships that come into their range (typically starting at 5.5 km at low tiers and extending as you get higher tier BBs) and can at least wound any DD or CL that was foolish enough to close to such a distance. As these ships are so massive, they're the most easily spotted, usually from at least 18 km out. Unsurprisingly, they have the armor necessary to weather most barrages and the range to respond in kind. Some ships more so than others.

American and Japanese battleships have some major differences that dramatically affect how they dictate the flow of battle. Perhaps the most important one is that USN BBs have dramatically shorter ranges (at least in the mid tiers). While the IJN T5 Kongo can spit shells out to a range of 21 or so km, the USN T5 New York can do maybe 16 km if the gods are feeling generous. This is slightly made up for by the fact that the shell velocity for American BBs seems to be higher than those for the IJN (ie, it'll take less time for your shells to reach their target compared to Japanese BBs). If you get spotted by an IJN BB at range, he'll be able to shoot at you well beyond your ability to retaliate in kind. It is fortunate, perhaps, that it is slightly harder to spot American BBs. Mercifully, they will typically only be spotted by the time they're in range to fire. Subjectively, I also think that the American BBs have better armor compared to IJN ships as I've seen more shots bounce off the New York than I ever did with the Kongo. USN BBs also get better AA guns compared to their IJN counterparts, especially once you get the modernized hull upgrades. Finally, American BBs have a much better turning radius compared to IJN BBs. While the rudder shift time is still abysmal, American ships can make much faster turns than their Japanese equivalents, which makes it a lot easier to avoid torpedoes in USN BBs if you're paying close attention. It should be noted though that American battleships are slow. I believe it takes until t9 with the Iowa for any of them to have a faster top speed than 22 knots.

Japanese battleships are the kings of long range fire. With the exception of the poor T3 Kawachii (which can be outranged by the T3 St. Louis), Japanese BBs can open fire from ranges of 18 or so km. Accuracy at those ranges is pathetic of course, but if your opponent isn't paying attention and taking evasive action, you can score some surprising hits on occasion. Ensuring that those shots hit, however, is tricky. Since Japanese guns tend to fire at a higher angle than their USN equivalents, the shell travel time for IJN BBs is substantially longer. Until you become proficient at leading your shots 12 seconds or longer in the future, you'll be better served by fighting in closer ranged battles. What helps IJN BBs out most in these close ranged battles is their immense amount of secondary batteries. The first match I played in the T7 Nagato saw me deal a substantial amount of damage with my secondaries when I was ambushed by several cruisers. However, IJN battleships are victims of incredibly poor turret placement in some cases. The T4 Myogi and T9 Izumo are prime examples. The Myogi has three turrets, one forward and two aft. If the front turret gets taken out, you can only ever exchange fire with ships behind you or when you're sailing away from them, which makes leading shots more difficult. The Izumo has the opposite problem with all three turrets in the front of the ship. However, one of the turrets is astoundingly facing towards the rear of the ship, even though it can't fire through the citadel. If you ever find yourself behind an Izumo, stay there and punish him for it. Finally, unlike American BBs, Japanese BB maneuverability is very poor. If you don't spot torpedoes or torpedo planes in advance, you will pay the price by eating a full spread of them as you struggle to bring the ship about. As a rule though, they are faster than their American counterparts, which makes it easier for them to reach the battle in the first place, and escape if things go south.

[Leon]

Bought my way in for a $1 on the E3 Bundle

[Brother Oni]

Bought my way in for a $1 on the E3 Bundle

To clarify a little bit, that's the E3 Digitial Ticket Humble Bundle (https://www.humblebundle.com/), which has a little over a day left to run at time of posting.

Edit: and it's for the NA server only. :smallsigh:

[AdmiralCheez]

Just so interested parties know, they've gone into Open Beta now, so anyone can join in for free. I've been playing it a little bit today, and I quite like it so far. I've only gotten to the Tier 2 Cruisers, so my experience isn't all that broad. List of thoughts though:

- Torpedoes are a cool mechanic, at least from a dodging standpoint. You can see them coming slowly toward you, and your ship's alarms get louder the closer they are. And yes, you can accidentally torpedo your allies if you aren't careful. I don't have any ships yet that are armed with them, so I don't know how fun it is to launch them.

- There's an autopilot feature that lets you plot a course on the map, and your crew steers that way, while you can focus solely on the guns. Haven't tried it yet, but it seems interesting, assuming it works.

- Based on what I've heard about carriers (haven't seen them yet, as they don't appear until Tier 4), I don't think they're as hated as arty are in WoT. For one thing, you can actually see them coming, and you have an auto-activating defense against it (AI-controlled AA guns).

- Ramming is a valid tactic, but it often ends with the destruction of both ships. Saw a near full-health cruiser ram a battleship, and both went down to the briny deep.

- No submarines, which is good, because I don't think there's any way to make them fun in this type of game. I mean, it would probably be fun for the sub player, but the surface ships would get annoyed and we'd have a repeat of the arty arguments. Plus, you already have a stealth-based, torpedo-launching ship class (the Destroyers).

- There's a coop mode, which is a team of humans against a team of AI. Doesn't count for stats, and it gives you something like half the experience of a random battle, but it's really good for learning a new ship, or just general messing around without worrying about screwing up yours or someone else's stats.

- No crew (at least not yet) like WoT. I think there's a commander you get at a higher level, but I haven't gotten there yet.

[Narkis]

Awesome, downloading now. I'll be in the EU server if anyone needs me.

[Gnoman]

I've played a bit of it (have tier II destroyers) since open beta hits, and I'm not yet sure about it. Unlike World Of Warplanes, the concept isn't fatally flawed from the get-go, but the HP system still doesn't work that well, and I'm expecting that War Thunder's naval expansion will do a better job unless World OF Warships gets better after tier II.

More importantly, the focus on USN and IJN seems very incomplete - they should have included a basic Royal Navy (AFAIK, they only have a premium ship or two) tree from the beginning.

[Brother Oni]

Awesome, downloading now. I'll be in the EU server if anyone needs me.

Same here. User name is the same as my World of Tanks one - MarineHK4861.

[AdmiralCheez]

I've played a bit of it (have tier II destroyers) since open beta hits, and I'm not yet sure about it. Unlike World Of Warplanes, the concept isn't fatally flawed from the get-go, but the HP system still doesn't work that well, and I'm expecting that War Thunder's naval expansion will do a better job unless World OF Warships gets better after tier II.

More importantly, the focus on USN and IJN seems very incomplete - they should have included a basic Royal Navy (AFAIK, they only have a premium ship or two) tree from the beginning.

Yeah, it does have its flaws, but it is still open beta, so any suggestions might still make it in. I'd personally rather have a compartment based health system, where if you take too many hits to your bow, you lose maneuverability and start sinking, and eventually it falls off. Or if you take a direct critical hit to the bridge, you're kinda screwed, much like how your tank crew can get incapacitated without the tank being destroyed.

As for the other navies, I'm sure they'll add those in as it progresses through the beta. I'm sure it takes a while to model each ship.

[Leon]

I havent been playing much due to internet problems every time i tried and since the patch ive had very little data to spare for it, although the last time i did play i scored a Ram kill on a DD that i didn't even know i was heading toward until after i'd hit it (Thats how bad the lag was)

From what ive read the RN looks to be a long way off and the Soviet Navy will arrive before it does (which is damm stupid)

[GloatingSwine]

To be fair, the USN and IJN did fight most of the major naval surface engagements of the war, so it kinda makes more sense.

And of course they're going to put the Russian navy in. Despite the fact that they barely had one during the period of the game.

[Gnoman]

To be fair, the USN and IJN did fight most of the major naval surface engagements of the war, so it kinda makes more sense.

And of course they're going to put the Russian navy in. Despite the fact that they barely had one during the period of the game.

The lower tier ships are pre-WWI - the South Carolina class battleship (The US Tier III BB) was the first American Dreadnought class and served from 1910-1922. Both the WWI Royal Navy and the German High Seas Fleet would fit in just fine.

[Narkis]

They did the same thing for World of Tanks. They started with the German and Soviet tanks, since the major tank battles of the war happened in the eastern front. But the lowest tiers were populated with really early tanks, will the top tiers were almost exclusively post-war tanks, or tanks that were never produced. They don't have much of a choice, there wasn't all that much variety in actual tanks (or ships) that fought in the war.

As for the game itself, I just got a Tier 2 ship and so far it seems almost the same as World of Tanks, just with less cover, more mobile battles, and different firing arcs.

[Brother Oni]

As for the game itself, I just got a Tier 2 ship and so far it seems almost the same as World of Tanks, just with less cover, more mobile battles, and different firing arcs.

Depends on your playstyle. I see plenty of people playing as if it was world of tanks, ie stationary behind 'cover', bombarding stuff.


My experiences:

Unless you do the equivalent of suicide scouting into a bunch of torpedo armed destroyers, the slow rate of gameplay gives you more time to think, at least at the lower levels.

One important difference is your attack range and leading your target - I've tracked a target then fired while he was out of range, only for him to move into my shots as he wasn't paying attention. Depending on the height of the terrain and your angle, you can also fire over cover.

Since you can also make a good attempt at evading long range fire, with careful piloting, you can avoid all their shots while landing your own - I've beaten another cruiser while he was chasing me through slewing my ship at odd angles so I could avoid his incoming fire while getting the odd broadside off, while he was limited to just his front arc gun.

I've only just run into ships with torpedos and they change the general gameplay noticeably - I can only imagine what aircraft will add to the mix.

Another important difference is the ability to set waypoints through the map - you can set your ship to navigate through island channels automatically while you concentrate on landing shots or scouting. I've seen an gameplay video where somebody did this with their aircraft carrier so they never remained stationary but didn't have to bother with avoiding obstacles while scouting/attacking other ships.

The free consumables are vital as fires and flooding will not stop dealing damage until your ship is destroyed as far as I can tell - I once lost ~5,000 hp from a pair of fires before my damage control crews came off cool down and stopped it at 628hp out of 17,300 (now that was nerve racking).

[MCerberus]

My problem with WoWS is the same as in WoT: Lemming trains. Now they're lemming fleets. Cruisers and destroyers camping one corner of the map in a swarm while the reds take all the good terrain.

[GloatingSwine]

The free consumables are vital as fires and flooding will not stop dealing damage until your ship is destroyed as far as I can tell - I once lost ~5,000 hp from a pair of fires before my damage control crews came off cool down and stopped it at 628hp out of 17,300 (now that was nerve racking).

Fires go out eventually, but their time is long, almost as long as the cooldown of the repair crew.

There is a commander skill to make the timer shorter.

[Brother Oni]

My problem with WoWS is the same as in WoT: Lemming trains. Now they're lemming fleets. Cruisers and destroyers camping one corner of the map in a swarm while the reds take all the good terrain.

Tunnel vision and complete lack of map awareness is also just the same. The problem is now that oblivious players can pilot their ships into friendly torpedoes and you get blamed and fined. If I'm in front with a destroyer/Japanese cruiser and suddenly make a 90 degree turn, don't cut in front of me. :smallsigh:


There is a commander skill to make the timer shorter.

I've noticed that now that I've unlocked commanders. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: A question on AP vs HE - in what situations would you use which?

I'm finding conflicting information based on which point of the beta. Generally it depends on whether your cannon can penetrate the ship you're firing at - DDs would use HE against anything except for other destroyers, BBs would use AP except for DDs and CVs, CVs would use HE.
Cruisers come in two flavours depending on the size of their main cannon; sub-155mms would use HE on everything except for other CAs and sub tier 4 BBs, 203+mm would use HE vs DDs, CVs and 155mm CAs and AP against BBs and bigger CAs.

However the most recent posts indicate HE against everything except in very select cases since potential burn damage is too significant to pass up.

I have noticed that BB armour is significant enough to warrant consideration of angling though (I was bearing down on a Chikuma or a Tenryu CA with a Kawachi BB and they did very little damage to me with AP as I didn't expose my broadside to them).

[Calen]

Edit: A question on AP vs HE - in what situations would you use which?



Wargaming has tweaked the HE and SP mechanics so make sure the information that you are checking is date relevant. Generally I use HE at longer range when my shells are plunging (falling onto the decks and weaker spots) At shorter ranges I will usually switch to AP but I won't if one of the following is true.

My shells are low caliber compared to the armor I am shooting at. (Bouncing)
My shells are a very high caliber compared to the armor I am shooting at. (Over penetration)
Against targets that I would really like to knock out ship components (Say a St. Louis or Atlanta)

[MCerberus]

I like destroyers, because even when you go down, this happens

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/987/380/816.gif
ENEMY CRUISER SUNK

[Brother Oni]

Wargaming has tweaked the HE and SP mechanics so make sure the information that you are checking is date relevant. Generally I use HE at longer range when my shells are plunging (falling onto the decks and weaker spots) At shorter ranges I will usually switch to AP but I won't if one of the following is true.

My shells are low caliber compared to the armor I am shooting at. (Bouncing)
My shells are a very high caliber compared to the armor I am shooting at. (Over penetration)
Against targets that I would really like to knock out ship components (Say a St. Louis or Atlanta)


Other suggestions I've seen is AP when under 5km or when the enemy ship is facing directly away or towards you (aim to hit them lengthways so that over penetration isn't an issue).
In both cases, aim for the citadel and hope for a penetration.


I like destroyers, because even when you go down, this happens

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/987/380/816.gif
ENEMY CRUISER SUNK

Wargaming recognise this as there's an achievement ('Tis But a Flesh Wound, I think) and reward (flags) to go with it. :smallbiggrin:

[Yana]

Concerning HE vs AP:

It actually isn't as difficult as you'd think.

Vs. DDs: Use HE at all times, their armor is so thin that HE goes through more often than not and consequently ruins modules. Using AP of any caliber runs the risk over penetrating the destroyer altogether and consequently does minimal damage. While this is more prevalent with BB guns firing AP (though you shouldn't be firing at a DD in a BB unless you have no choice), CLs are better served firing HE at them as well.

Vs. CVs: HE HE HE HE. It sets them on fire which prevents them from recovering or launching planes. A CV that's on fire is a worthless CV. Combine this with worthless armor means that using AP against a CV is a waste of time.

Vs. BB: This is where it gets tricky. BBs should always fire AP against other BBs no matter the range. While you do run the risk of dealing a glancing blow, you can't get a citadel pen on another BB using HE. This is doubly true when you close to secondary gun range thanks to the change in trajectory for your shells. At this range, you can just aim under the guns for a citadel penetration. For CLs with 203mm guns, this is the range at which you should consider firing AP at the sides of a BB provided the ship is completely broadside to you. Outside of this range, and for CLs with 155 mm guns (and dds for this matter), use HE.

Vs. CL: Trial-and-error. I'll have to get back to you guys on what works best.

[Razgriez]

Some additional advice

-CTRL+ LMB is used to designate priority targets for your AI controlled AA guns and Secondary battery guns. Basically, if you have multiple targets in range of them, CTRL let's your mouse cursor appear. just hold it over the air squadron, or ship you want to designate (or both, one after the other) click the LMB, and your guns will prioritize them, if they are in range.

-Much like World of tanks, get the idea of yelling at people for "Kill stealing" and the like out of your head. You are rewarded for what damage you deal, and objectives you accomplish. An enemy ship with even 1 HP, and working turrets, is a dangerous ships.

-Once a torpedo is in the water, it isn't anyone's friend, not even the controlling player's, with a carrier's torpedo bombers. If any ally is in your arc of fire, presume there's a chance he'll cross in front of your torpedoes' path. Failure to responsibly launch Torpedoes is a great way to get fined heavily, gain the ire of your allies, and will lead to you being marked as a TK'er/damager.

-Carrier captains. learn to use Alt key + LMB to designate a manual launch of torpedoes. Targeting by ship is very ineffective vs. DDs. Cruisers often have enough time to even dodge when you go by ship targeting. Only the most ponderous of ships will be reliably hit this way. Manual drop designations, gives you a better chance to set up proper torpedo runs to maximize damage and hits. Just make you give a little extra distance from the start of the green arc of fire, otherwise, your torpedoes won't have time to arm before impacting

[MCerberus]

The only thing better than getting afterlife kills on cruisers
landing a full torpedo salvo on a top tier battleship and watching them rage in chat
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/714/999/c2a.png

[Brother Oni]

Some more suggestions and observations:

- Pressing X locks your guns onto a target (not very useful) and also turns on lead assist for torpedos (much more useful). Don't forget to unlock your guns afterwards (either that or the low IJN turret tracking is misleading me).

- SHIFT+X and CTRL-X locks your guns onto a sector and relative to your ship respectively. I haven't found a good use for this yet, but I can possibly foresee one when you get to bigger battleships with slower rotation speeds.

- Torpedos have a minimum arming distance (<50m I think) as I found out when I goofed entirely and hit a friendly with a full launch of 6 torpedos as we crossed paths and he didn't sink.

- Torpedos can be set to a wide or narrow spread and pressing 3 again while they're selected toggles between the two.

- Q and E make you automatically turn port and starboard respectively. Useful if you need to turn and are busy fighting (I find that A and D can get unresponsive sometimes, possibly due to lag or the keyboard buffer filling up).

- M brings up the tactical map where you can set waypoints with LMB and add waypoints with SHIFT+LMB. Good for setting patrol routes and general lines of attack without worrying whether you're going to crash into an island while you're zoomed in. Note that you will automatically stop when you reach your last waypoint, so either cancel the autopilot early or set an extra waypoint somewhere safe to avoid an unpleasant surprise.

- Team killing in this game turns your icon pink rather than blue as in WoT.

[Razgriez]

-Additional note about Pink Named TK'ers. Unlike with WoT's "Blue Names", do *Not* shoot pink named players on your team. Here, shooting an "Ally" that has been pink named will penalize you, and will still be tracked as team damage that you've done. Instead, the game will reflect damage they inflict to allies, back onto a marked Team Killer/Damager (The penalty starts at x1 damage inflicted, but repeated violations will increase the multiplier, and will start applying time bans if a Pink-Named player keeps it up, according to the Devs)

[Brother Oni]

I've found this nice video regarding citadel hits: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptInL5A8CkY&feature=youtu.be).

They're continuing the series, with the next video on effective use of torpedos (starting with the one that's about to hit at the end of that video).

[Samuel Sturm]

Well! I was actually invited to the Alpha testing of this game, IIRC... And then my computer died. I finally got it fixed yesterday, and have the game waiting for me when I get home. Any advice for a new player? I've read the thread, and played WoT to tier 7, mainly Arty, TDs, and light tanks.

[Leon]

Well Take any Tank knowledge and throw it out, its really not applicable here where at long range anyone one with a Gun is "arty" more or less


Speaking of that i was very happy with my continual bombardment of a ship that was otherwise out of sight the other night, 2/3rds of my shots were hitting it as it steamed behind a island.

[Brother Oni]

Well! I was actually invited to the Alpha testing of this game, IIRC... And then my computer died. I finally got it fixed yesterday, and have the game waiting for me when I get home. Any advice for a new player? I've read the thread, and played WoT to tier 7, mainly Arty, TDs, and light tanks.

I'd say forget WoT and treat this game as a new experience. Aside from general skills like map awareness and leading your shots (and not suicide scouting), there's very little that carries over.

Just play and get used to the game mechanics then come back if you get stuck or have questions.


Well Take any Tank knowledge and throw it out, its really not applicable here where at long range anyone one with a Gun is "arty" more or less.

Indeed. As an example, maps get no bigger than 1km across in WoT. In WoWS, <5km is pretty much knife fighting distance and <3.5km is when you're biting your opponent with your secondary armament.

[Brother Oni]

I just had a ridiculously good game with the Isokaze (tier 4 IJN destroyer) through some very simple tactics and key options:

Press 'P' to turn off your secondary guns and AA. Firing guns and AA increases your detection range by ~4km, so those idiot BB captains who like to shell islands at the start of the game really aren't doing you any favours by alerting everything within 20+km that they're there.
Air detection on a destroyer is ~2.something km while ship detection is to 6.something km on the Isokaze, so as long as you don't fire, nobody knows that you're there unless you mess up and get close. Meanwhile your torps have a 7km range plus they don't raise your profile once dropped - I landed a Double Strike on a pair of cruisers by zipping into to ~6.5km, dropping torpedos and getting out before they even realised I was there.

After that, I just skated around at about 7km, spotting for my BBs who rained death and destruction down on the foe and the enemy were too scared to come closer since they knew a destroyer was lurking in the area. Only once things were quieter then I started using my guns to light unsuspecting BBs on fire after dropping torps.



On a separate note, what tier do people feel is good just to park up and invest more time in learning the mechanics and honing tactics? In WoT, tier 5 is about right since all the tanks are suitably specialised by then, plus even if you lose, you still earn money.
I'm thinking about tier 4 for WoWS, since all ship classes are accessible at that tier, plus all the classes do what they're supposed to do (CAs have AA, BBs have proper range, etc). Tier 3 CAs tend not to have any decent AA, which can be problematic if they get thrown into a game with CVs, while BBs don't have range (Kawachi being out-ranged by the St Louis for example).

That said, I do find the Tenryu and St Louis fun to pilot: Tenryu as it has decent sniping range for the tier and torps to catch sleeping enemy, St Louis as it has lotsa dakka - if it can get 8 guns on target, it can ripple fire almost nonstop, which is highly entertaining if a DD is trying to evade your shots as you can adjust on every one.

[Janwin]

On a separate note, what tier do people feel is good just to park up and invest more time in learning the mechanics and honing tactics?

Depends on the ships.

For BBs, Tier 4 (though you learn a lot Tier 3 in US since the South Carolina isn't actually all that bad; the Kawachi on the other hand is horrible).

For CAs, Tier 3 (battleships aren't powerful enough to give you a threat yet, so you can use this time to learn how to land your shots accurately) and Tier 4 (now battleships are a danger, so learn the rest of how to not get killed by them).

For DDs, Tier 3.

For CVs, Tier 4.

[Narkis]

Well, turns out that my earlier gripes with the game were due to the fact that I friggin' hate playing with a cruiser. I've since fallen in love with the american battleship line, especially after that citadel hitting video, while destroyers of both kinds are wonderful, wonderful troll ships. I haven't unlocked a carrier yet, but I expect I'll like them too.

[AdmiralCheez]

Well, turns out that my earlier gripes with the game were due to the fact that I friggin' hate playing with a cruiser. I've since fallen in love with the american battleship line, especially after that citadel hitting video, while destroyers of both kinds are wonderful, wonderful troll ships. I haven't unlocked a carrier yet, but I expect I'll like them too.

Yeah, I kinda wish the tech tree was more like World of Tanks, where you can more or less branch into every class at tier 2. I'm not particularly fond of playing through two cruisers to get a destroyer, three cruisers to get a battleship, and two battleships (plus the three cruisers) to get a carrier.

[Narkis]

I agree completely. I almost gave up on the game right before I unlocked my first battleship, and I dread doing the same for the Japanese navy, or the English one whenever they add it.

[Beowulf DW]

Though I'm pretty sure my poor laptop couldn't run this, the Pacific War is one of my favorite subjects.

Incidentally, this (https://youtu.be/rL6pCCiJJD0) seems relevant. It's like watching Battle 360 with the Big-E!

This (https://youtu.be/JzFr-uNTXxc), too, come to think of it...

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, I kinda wish the tech tree was more like World of Tanks, where you can more or less branch into every class at tier 2. I'm not particularly fond of playing through two cruisers to get a destroyer, three cruisers to get a battleship, and two battleships (plus the three cruisers) to get a carrier.

You mean you wish there were no battleships before tier 5 and even the cruisers below that tier were suspect, leaving people with only destroyers?

[AdmiralCheez]

You mean you wish there were no battleships before tier 5 and even the cruisers below that tier were suspect, leaving people with only destroyers?

Not at all. What I meant is that by tier 2 you have access to nearly all the tank classes and all the styles of play. If all I want to do is play SPG, I can get one after learning the basics in the starter tank. I don't have to play through three light tanks and two mediums before I can even unlock the first one. By tier 4 in Warships, everyone else is starting to master the class they're in, and with a carrier I'm starting something brand new with a whole new game mode. It just doesn't make sense.

[GloatingSwine]

Not at all. What I meant is that by tier 2 you have access to nearly all the tank classes and all the styles of play. If all I want to do is play SPG, I can get one after learning the basics in the starter tank. I don't have to play through three light tanks and two mediums before I can even unlock the first one. By tier 4 in Warships, everyone else is starting to master the class they're in, and with a carrier I'm starting something brand new with a whole new game mode. It just doesn't make sense.

True, but also until tier 4 nobody has any AA worth a damn, so you couldn't really put carriers in there anyway. (Also the tier 1-3 stuff is pre and inter war when carriers weren't a thing).

(I'd also say that most of the different tank types don't really crystallise into their eventual gameplay form until tier 5 anyway, that's when you have true mediums and heavies and TDs start being camo mongers rather than silly T18 trollboxen)

Maybe with the British and German fleets there'll be some T2 BBs though, what with all the Jutland.


(Also, firing AP from battleships feels like cheating, getting citadel penetrations for half of someone's health when everyone else is whaffing HE around is just mean....)

[Brother Oni]

Maybe with the British and German fleets there'll be some T2 BBs though, what with all the Jutland.

I don't think so, since the Kawachi and South Carolina classes are both pre-WW1 dreadnoughts and they're both tier 3.

That said, I would possibly make BBs researchable from the tier 2 cruisers like the DDs, rather than from the current tier 3 CAs.

[GloatingSwine]

I don't think so, since the Kawachi and South Carolina classes are both pre-WW1 dreadnoughts and they're both tier 3.

That said, I would possibly make BBs researchable from the tier 2 cruisers like the DDs, rather than from the current tier 3 CAs.

I think there's scope for pre-Dreadnought battleships at tier 2 though. Things that wouldn't quite compete with the dreadnoughts because of the relatively low number of heavy guns (frequently 2x2 10-11" plus several 6" guns) but should really be in there for historical reasons (eg. the Battle of Tsushima Strait was fought between pre-Dreadnoughts and is the only real life example ever to happen of the sort of decisive battle between surface combatants that the game represents).

All the nations have ships that could fit into that tier 2 introductory battleship role. Borodino, Shikishima, Illinois, Swiftsure, Braunschweig....

[Brother Oni]

I haven't unlocked a carrier yet, but I expect I'll like them too.

You may change your mind once you've actually tried them. I recently got my Hosho and I've had to watch a number of videos to figure out the mechanics since the game doesn't really help.
One primary one is the minimum attack distance that torpedo bombers have - if they're not flying straight before they reach the the attack circle, they derp around in circles until they eventually find it (which will take a while on a moving target), by which point the ship's AAA will have pretty much destroyed them. While not so much an issue with automatic attacks, it's an issue with manual launches, which is how good CV captains often drop an undodgable number of torpedos in your path.

Aircraft are also surprisingly fragile from the other perspective of commanding them instead of shooting them. While I've avoided getting into combat above hostile ships with good AAA, my fighters tend to take a beating from other fighter craft.


I think there's scope for pre-Dreadnought battleships at tier 2 though. Things that wouldn't quite compete with the dreadnoughts because of the relatively low number of heavy guns (frequently 2x2 10-11" plus several 6" guns) but should really be in there for historical reasons (eg. the Battle of Tsushima Strait was fought between pre-Dreadnoughts and is the only real life example ever to happen of the sort of decisive battle between surface combatants that the game represents).

I do see your point, but would there possibly be an issue with balance?

A tier 2 ship would generally have to be worse than a tier 3 and given that the Kawachi has its issues already, it may turn new players entirely off the Japanese BB line - while it's good learning for later on in the game, you really don't want the new player experience after the tutorial ship to be grinding through sub-par ships to get to the better ones.

There's also the issue of match-making - tier 2 BBs would presumably get tier 1 and 3 matchmaking. Ignoring issues with the Tenryu (which out ranges them plus torps) and the St Louis (which both out-ranges and out-damages them), the tier 1 Erie and Hashidate are both very mobile and can potentially run rings about potential T2 BBs, wearing them down with fire damage (the Hashidate can already do that to the Kawachi, provided it stays out of range of the secondaries).

I'm not saying it's an issue now - working out balance is what betas are for - but if they're planning to introduce additional ships then they may need additional data before making additional design decisions, like the World of Tanks KV1S/KV85 split or the re-arrangement to the German tech tree.

Plus I'd really like the Royal Navy before they introduce additional ships to the existing lines. :smalltongue:

[Janwin]

You may change your mind once you've actually tried them. I recently got my Hosho and I've had to watch a number of videos to figure out the mechanics since the game doesn't really help.

Some tips and tricks regarding playing carriers:

Firstly, you can avoid the 'circle stupidly in enemy AA' maneuver by starting your torpedo run a ways out from your target. You can keep changing the bombing path up until the arc turns yellow and your bombers drop their torpedoes. This means you can set your run position on the target, and then keep clicking it a little forward as the target moves, and your planes (since they only have to adjust minutely each time) will come in flying straight with an on target attack that's impossible to avoid. Click and drag to select multiple torpedo groups at once, and you can do a combined attack on a battleship and make them regret their life.

Secondly, as a Hosho, if you end up against a Langley or something with lots of fighters, it's game over. That being said, there's a lot of stupid carrier commanders out there. A lot of the time I find that sending in a flight of fighters to get in sight of the enemy's fighters is enough for them to go "ooh! target!" and start chasing my fighters. Then you can lead the enemy fighters around the map, and specifically away from where you're sending your bombers.

Thirdly, if your bombers end up getting tailed by a fighter squadron that's not very fast (and either can't catch you, or you'll have a bit of time before they do), instead of just coming straight home to your carrier and giving away your location, take a nice scenic detour over the bulk of your team's American battleships and cruisers. Then laugh as all the fighters tailing your bombers fall out of the sky in balls of fire. :smallbiggrin:

[Brother Oni]

Firstly, you can avoid the 'circle stupidly in enemy AA' maneuver by starting your torpedo run a ways out from your target. You can keep changing the bombing path up until the arc turns yellow and your bombers drop their torpedoes. This means you can set your run position on the target, and then keep clicking it a little forward as the target moves, and your planes (since they only have to adjust minutely each time) will come in flying straight with an on target attack that's impossible to avoid. Click and drag to select multiple torpedo groups at once, and you can do a combined attack on a battleship and make them regret their life.

Thirdly, if your bombers end up getting tailed by a fighter squadron that's not very fast (and either can't catch you, or you'll have a bit of time before they do), instead of just coming straight home to your carrier and giving away your location, take a nice scenic detour over the bulk of your team's American battleships and cruisers. Then laugh as all the fighters tailing your bombers fall out of the sky in balls of fire. :smallbiggrin:

With regard to the first, I was starting to get the hang of it, but when I was playing last night, BB captains seemed to be a lot more on the ball with regard to incoming torpedos (don't ask how many games I had to play with my Isokaze before I got my win of the day :smallsigh:).
I'll practice some more and I'll report back on my progress.

With the third, I like commanding my bombers to patrol around a friendly cruiser with the little recycle icon and giving them free kills. :smallbiggrin:

[Janwin]

With regard to the first, I was starting to get the hang of it, but when I was playing last night, BB captains seemed to be a lot more on the ball with regard to incoming torpedos

Yeah, sometimes they are. I know in my own BBs I tend to change course pretty regularly due to the plague of "ha ha you can't see me but I can torp you" destroyers.

If they're turning when they see your planes coming in, you need to learn how to set up your attacks. Get a group 120 degrees around the target you're attacking. Send in one wave at first to launch torps (or not launch torps, but to fake doing so to make the BB turn). Then send in your second wave with torps launched to where he's turning to. He won't dodge those due to rudder shift time. If you fake the first wave, bring them back in and launch torps on where he's going and you'll likely hit with those too.

[Yana]

In the interests of getting a server list together (now that I have a functioning computer again), can everyone list their username and server?

[genmoose]

genmoose
WOWS NA

[AdmiralCheez]

AdmiralCheez - North America Server

[Brother Oni]

MarineHK4861 - EU server

Edit: Patch day! (http://blog.worldofwarships.eu/patch-notes-0-4-0-3/)

It looks like they're at least considering pre-dreadnought BBs, as they've released the Mikasa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mikasa) for outstanding testers and press accounts.

[Janwin]

Janwin - NA Server

[Abemad]

Skovzzt, EU server

[Yana]

Would any of you guys be interested in organizing a "ship night" where we all gather and play at the same time?

[Janwin]

Sure. I'm in. Just let me know when.

[LongVin]

LongVin

North American Server


Quick Question: Does anyone know if we get to keep our progress when the game is officially released?

[AdmiralCheez]

Quick Question: Does anyone know if we get to keep our progress when the game is officially released?

I've seen a lot of posts on the official forums that seem to indicate we'll get to keep it, but I haven't seen an official developer statement on the subject. People on the forums over there apparently get really rude when you ask this though.

[Yana]

To my knowledge, the server wipe from Closed Beta to Open Beta was the last one. However, I wouldn't put it past the developers if they see some benefit in doing so.

Also, I could probably make time for ships this evening if anyone else is interested.

Edit: Online now at 7:30 EST. US Server, username Raltis

[ShadowFighter15]

It's probably been sorted already, but something I've found with ammo types is that AP works best at the more extreme ranges of your guns, when the shells are coming almost straight down on the target as plunging fire. The decks of a ship aren't very well armoured compared to the sides so if you can get a shell down through there, you've a decent chance of hitting the citadel.

That and it's a good way to hit someone hiding behind a low island.

If the trajectory's flat enough that you can't hit the deck, switch to HE and start trying to put them into the superstructure rather than the hull.

Oh; and always use HE against destroyers, regardless of what you're using - aside from the fact that they have practically no armour, you'll be able to knock out their engine or steering and make them an easier target. And don't salvo-fire against them; hold down the mouse button to ripple fire your guns and just spam them around where the destroyer's going, all it takes is one of them hitting in just the right place to muck up their mobility. Obviously, cruisers work best for that; destroyers don't have much in the way of guns (and destroyers are too nimble to bother trying to torpedo them) while battleships take too long to reload their guns. Not sure how well dive bombers could work; don't play carriers.

Speaking of carriers; always fire HE at them - if they're set on fire, then they can't launch or recover their squadrons.

[Brother Oni]

Help an Ensign series has continued with a basics on torpedos: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYHG7GMvSXA).

I didn't realise that some players didn't know of some these basics until I had a Phoenix drop torpedos behind me in an Isokaze. I asked him why he did that (I ended up having to dodge his torpedos) and he assumed that the range on his torps was infinite. :smallsigh:

Still not as bad as the friendly cruiser who went into a full spread of my torps ~30 seconds after they went into the water. I was under the impression that if you see a torpedo in the water, friendlies can see them too, so whether he did that because of tunnel vision on the CV we were both fighting or deliberately to get himself extra xp and credits, I don't know.

[LongVin]

Is it just me or do Tier IV cruisers suck?

[Brother Oni]

I just got pointed in the direction of this video that new players may find useful once they've got the hang of the basic mechanics: Mighty Jingles' World of Warships - How To Not Suck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOL-NwvY4MM).

Even for older players, there's some useful information in there, like if you're shooting HE at a target, aim for the superstructure (the bits on top of the deck), not the belt (hull sides).


Is it just me or do Tier IV cruisers suck?

Not in my experience:

http://i.imgur.com/o7OBYK2.jpg

As it has been alluded to before, cruisers take some more getting used to in comparison to DDs (stay hidden and torpedo spam if IJN, picket duty and set things on fire when the target is busy with someone else if USN) and BBs (learn how to lead your target and shoot AP at anything cruiser size or up), for example whether to shoot AP/HE at a target, how to effectively apply your AAA, make use of your limited torpedoes but without the stealth advantages of DDs, etc.

Is there anything you're having problems with particularly?

[LongVin]

It just seems to be that the Phoenix is a glass cannon and can't take any hits as compared to previous lines.

[Brother Oni]

It just seems to be that the Phoenix is a glass cannon and can't take any hits as compared to previous lines.

That may be because you're now a higher tier and are encountering more experienced people who shoot AP at you rather than the typical HE spam that you encountered back in the tier 3 St Louis.

While on paper, the Phoenix does look less durable (the Phoenix C hull has 5.5k hp less than than the St Louis B hull and the armour is about comparable), the Phoenix has an additional 12 knots of speed, letting it dictate range to take advantage of its ~3km further reach.

That said, cruisers generally aren't intended to get into slugging matches on the line with the enemy (which the St Louis tends to do better at, since it can get 8 guns tracking on a broadside) - you want battleships for that.

[Yana]

The Phoenix and Omaha are glass cannons. The reason that they go at 35kt is because they took off all of the armor that would otherwise have slowed them down. That's why you typically stay at 10 km and just rain the HE down on other ships and pray that they shoot at someone else. I've learned that you shouldn't let the speed of those two go to your head by rushing forward at top speed all the time ahead of your support (especially when that support is a squadron of American BBs that go half your speed). The only time you should ever close to torpedo range with the Phoenix/Omaha is when you have an island giving you sufficient cover, or you're certain the enemy is focused elsewhere.

[mangosta71]

After going through the various Jingles videos, I finally installed this. I scored 5 kills in my first game and blew the rest of my team away on XP, so I guess I learned something from my Youtube binge. Still, as well as I seem to be doing with cruisers, I think I want to focus on IJN DDs.

NA Server
Thasaidon

[Brother Oni]

After going through the various Jingles videos, I finally installed this. I scored 5 kills in my first game and blew the rest of my team away on XP, so I guess I learned something from my Youtube binge. Still, as well as I seem to be doing with cruisers, I think I want to focus on IJN DDs.

If it's your very first game, you're playing bots. :smalltongue:

There are a number of people who apparently haven't realised this (it's an option at the very top of the screen next to the Start Battle) and have either gotten up to level 8 wondering why the grind was so bad (bot games grant less XP and credits) or smack talk the bots in game.

[mangosta71]

Oh, yes, I know that my opponents for those first 2 or 3 games were bots, and I noticed the mode selector that gives me bigger rewards.

I also noticed that torpedoing battleships is hilarious. I'm just sad that the only time I've seen an enemy carrier I was still in a cruiser so I haven't gotten to blast one of them yet.

[Brother Oni]

I also noticed that torpedoing battleships is hilarious. I'm just sad that the only time I've seen an enemy carrier I was still in a cruiser so I haven't gotten to blast one of them yet.

Despite what I've read of matchmaking tiers (ships will get matched with up to 3 tiers higher), you tend not to run into them until you reach at least tier 3.

I find trying to kill a CV with their sole undivided attention on you is a rather nerve wracking experience if you're piloting a DD, as you're constantly on the look out for dive bombers and torpedoes while trying to set him on fire while staying close enough so that your torps can hit but not wander into range of his secondaries.
Incoming fire from their alert team mates also doesn't make things easier.

[GloatingSwine]

I also noticed that torpedoing battleships is hilarious. I'm just sad that the only time I've seen an enemy carrier I was still in a cruiser so I haven't gotten to blast one of them yet.

To be fair, torpedoing anything is hilarious.

People do love to drive in straight lines, even when they know there's a destroyer around...

[Yana]

Yeah, people can be incredibly dense when it comes to fighting destroyers. So much so that the destroyers themselves can become incredibly complacent.

I was fighting a T4 IJN DD, the Isokaze, in my T3 St. Louis a few days back. And by fighting him, I mean I was preoccupied with other ships while constantly dodging his 6 torpedo salvos. I'd like to think that I managed to avoid at least 4 separate salvos before he got fed up and came into visual range before I promptly HE spammed him to death.

[Janwin]

That's because IJN destroyer drivers think they're amazing players, when in reality they're not very good at all. The IJN destroyer is basically skill on a stick, because of how easy they are to use and to rack up the kills, and stupid people take that to mean "omgigetkillzimustbe1337". Then they do something stupid, like drive into visibility range of a St. Louis.

Seriously, though. Anyone who claims that IJN destroyers are difficult to use or require any sort of skill is pretty much brain-dead. The skill is:

Step 1: Click IJN destroyer in ship list.
Step 2: Look at visibility distances (for ultra-pro playing, pay attention to both surface AND air visibility).
Step 3: Click "Battle" button.
Step 4: At start of battle, shoot torpedoes into the usual lanes of traffic. For bonus points, launch your torpedoes in front of a friendly cruiser for a "free bonus kill".
Step 5: Drive back and forth all over the place, making sure that you stay just outside of visibility range of any surface ship or aircraft (see Step 2). If you cannot achieve this, use mountainous islands to hide you from guns when aircraft sees you.
Step 6: Target enemy ship by moving your guns over them.
Step 7: Switch to torpedoes and shoot lots of torpedoes at the white area that shows up in your torpedo targeting area.
Step 8: Watch a movie on second monitor.
Step 9: Observe the damage, ribbons and points pile up while repeating steps 5-9.
Step 10: ...
Step 11: Profit.

I really was hoping they'd introduce submarines in World of Warships. They said they never would, but then they did in the form of destroyers that can't be spotted while they launch wave after wave of torpedoes.

I enjoy my IJN destroyers because they piss people off, myself included, and because it's just so easy to rack up the kills without thought. It's a nice break from grinding US battleships, where you actually have to focus on the game and think a few moves ahead in order to not get torpedoed, bombed or just outranged to death by cruisers and IJN BBs.

Oh, the other fun troll move when you're in a carrier? Keep a squad of fighters over an IJN destroyer and ruin his day. Watch as the rage and tears roll in through chat as he is no longer able to do his invisible shenanigans and he gets blown away. :smallamused:

[Leon]

Managed to get some Lag free games in and Unlocked some new ships. Still only T2 but i have a DD now.

[Brother Oni]

Next part of the 'Help an Ensign' series is up, Torpedos part 2, Friendly Fire and Spread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsEgsmeqzGY).

Yana, perhaps these guides could be added to the initial thread post to help out newer players?


Seriously, though. Anyone who claims that IJN destroyers are difficult to use or require any sort of skill is pretty much brain-dead.

If they don't require any skill to use effectively, then why aren't the boards screaming how overpowered they are?

While I agree with your assessment of the playstyle, I dispute that they are as easy as you make them out to be, particularly against better players who know how to evade torpedos.



Oh, the other fun troll move when you're in a carrier? Keep a squad of fighters over an IJN destroyer and ruin his day. Watch as the rage and tears roll in through chat as he is no longer able to do his invisible shenanigans and he gets blown away. :smallamused:

Assuming the DD hasn't turned his secondaries off, thus you can only spot them at ~3km or less and even if you do spot them, they can turn them back on, retreat towards a friendly ship with good AAA and you can watch your fighters vanish..

[Janwin]

If they don't require any skill to use effectively, then why aren't the boards screaming how overpowered they are?

You and I must not read the same boards, since they actually have had quite a number of complaint threads on the US server forums.

The problem behind them is that the ships are so good that even an unskilled player can hop in one and wreck face. If an unskilled player hops in a cruiser, they're gonna get killed. Hops in a BB and just broadsides all day taking citadel hits.

But as long as you can grasp the concept of "press P at start to turn off your AA" and "stay > 6km from any enemy ships", you're going to rack up the kills with an IJN DD. It's really not hard, and thus the ship itself does much of the work to compensate for players' lack of skill.

In the hands of a good DD driver, they scale up even more, but because the starting point is so high to begin with you'll find more return on investment of skill in other ship lines.


While I agree with your assessment of the playstyle, I dispute that they are as easy as you make them out to be, particularly against better players who know how to evade torpedos.

Yes, against better players who know how to evade and not just drive in a straight line, things get a bit harder. Doesn't stop you from getting some through here and there, though. And the same could be said of any ship line. BBs are harder against players who know to angle their hull instead of just driving broadside. Cruisers are harder against...I guess other cruisers with longer range/faster guns.


Assuming the DD hasn't turned his secondaries off, thus you can only spot them at ~3km or less and even if you do spot them, they can turn them back on, retreat towards a friendly ship with good AAA and you can watch your fighters vanish..

Yes. The carrier trick requires you to not be a brain-dead carrier driver. Stay out of effective AA range (the further from a ship, the less it does), and reacquire once they feel 'safe'. And since you can't spot them easily, wait until they screw up and get spotted, then camp them. Plus, if they're hiding from your planes in a BB's AA screen, they aren't throwing torpedoes at your BBs, and thus it's beneficial.

[Yana]

If I might add my .02 $, with the exception of perhaps the Cleveland, I don't consider any ship in the game to be "overpowered". For a player to do well in any given match, two major factors have to be taken into account: their skill, and the skill of the people that they face (with perhaps the second factor being the more salient one).

If you don't know how to play in WoWs, then you flat out won't do well no matter how "op" your ship might be. It's the simple things like knowing how much lead you should give your opponents while firing at the maximum range of your guns or having a good idea when it's the right time to swap out HE for AP or vice versa. If you sail around herp-a-derping while spamming HE at everyone, you might do well for the first few tiers perhaps, but when you get higher up, that sort of play won't suffice and will get you killed in short order (as I can attest).

Conversely, if your opposition knows how to play, then you have a significantly harder time of it. If enemy BBs know how to angle their armor as Oni mentioned, or the enemy CL knows the optimal range at which their gun trajectory flattens out, or even if they know that zig-zagging is a very valid tactic against torpedoes, then they can frustrate any player that they face that doesn't know how to counter these decisions.

A shouting match I saw in one of the games I played this morning underlines the disparity between a competent and incompetent player. An enemy Omaha took down a friendly Phoenix from full health in two broadsides while the Phoenix only managed to do 4k damage to an already damaged Omaha in the same time. After he sank, the Phoenix started kvetching about the Omaha hacking and not fighting fair ect. If he had any idea of how the game works, he would have known that the Omaha had been firing AP at the waterline of his own ship and had scored several citadel penetrations instead of blundering around firing HE at him like the Phoenix had been doing. I asked the Omaha and he confirmed that he had been using AP, which a competent player would have recognized from the start.

Really, the game ultimately comes down to the people captaining these ships, not the ships themselves. A New Mexico can take out two Iowas if he aims properly and the Iowas oblige him despite a disparity of 3 tiers of ships. Or the Iowas can laugh and just send the New Mexico to the bottom outside of the range at which the New Mexico can retaliate. It's all in the players' hands.

[Brother Oni]

You and I must not read the same boards, since they actually have had quite a number of complaint threads on the US server forums.

But as long as you can grasp the concept of "press P at start to turn off your AA" and "stay > 6km from any enemy ships", you're going to rack up the kills with an IJN DD. It's really not hard, and thus the ship itself does much of the work to compensate for players' lack of skill.

We probably are, as I see few complaints about IJN DDs on the boards I read.

By your standards, I also must be an appauling IJN DD player as I'm certainly not finding it as easy as you seem to think it to be (one game in my Isokaze, I scored 0/64 torpedo hits).



Yes, against better players who know how to evade and not just drive in a straight line, things get a bit harder.

I suspect the different player bases may also be coming into effect here as I'm finding it more than a 'bit' harder or otherwise I'm consistently ending up against better player players during match making. As Yana said, a competent player makes things significantly harder.


Plus, if they're hiding from your planes in a BB's AA screen, they aren't throwing torpedoes at your BBs, and thus it's beneficial.

On the other hand, your fighters are now not screening your bombers, so unless you have air superiority, your bombers are going to die horribly as soon as an enemy fighter squadron gets close (even an IJN one).


It's all in the players' hands.

As an additional example, I took out a full health South Carolina with a damaged Clemson, despite being shot at by two other cruisers at the time through a combination of torpedoes, evasive manoeuvering and HE (I died shortly afterwards though - I'm not that lucky :smalltongue:).

The South Carolina didn't do anything wrong - I just derped through a channel between islands while trying to evade the CLs and found myself right on top of him.

[Magentawolf]

Well, to be fair, the South Carolina is just about the worst ship in the game. Less health then a St. Louis, and crappy guns.

Really, I don't think anything is overpowered, except possibly manual torpedo drops by the lower-tier carriers (when AA fire is ludicrously useless), but for the life of me I can't figure out the dispersion patterns for BB main guns. On my Wyoming (T4), two shells from one turret will often bracket my bloody target fore and aft... while it's broadside to me! How the hell am I supposed to hit anything?

[Yana]

Well, to be fair, the South Carolina is just about the worst ship in the game. Less health then a St. Louis, and crappy guns.

Really, I don't think anything is overpowered, except possibly manual torpedo drops by the lower-tier carriers (when AA fire is ludicrously useless), but for the life of me I can't figure out the dispersion patterns for BB main guns. On my Wyoming (T4), two shells from one turret will often bracket my bloody target fore and aft... while it's broadside to me! How the hell am I supposed to hit anything?

If you think the South Carolina is bad; the T3 IJN BB, the Kawachii, will horrify you. Lower range (less than 10 km!) and the turrets are mounted in the sides of the ship so you can never bring all of your guns to bear.

Concerning dispersion however, this is what I consider to be the downfall of Wargaming's games. The RNG nature of dispersion as interpreted by WoT and WoWS means that at extreme ranges, none of your shots go precisely where you aim (and none of them will miss by the same amount twice). This is the price you pay for the crazy amounts of damage that battleships are capable of. For every broadside that sends a Kuma to the bottom with 4 citadel penetrations at max range, you get at least one that completely brackets him and does minimal to no damage. Battleships are frustrating that way.

[mangosta71]

Speaking of bad players, I nuked the **** out of an enemy DD driver with my torpedoes. Dude didn't even try to dodge or fire his own at me; just sailed along pinking away with his tiny guns.

[Brother Oni]

If you think the South Carolina is bad; the T3 IJN BB, the Kawachii, will horrify you. Lower range (less than 10 km!) and the turrets are mounted in the sides of the ship so you can never bring all of your guns to bear.

Concerning dispersion however, this is what I consider to be the downfall of Wargaming's games. The RNG nature of dispersion as interpreted by WoT and WoWS means that at extreme ranges, none of your shots go precisely where you aim (and none of them will miss by the same amount twice). This is the price you pay for the crazy amounts of damage that battleships are capable of. For every broadside that sends a Kuma to the bottom with 4 citadel penetrations at max range, you get at least one that completely brackets him and does minimal to no damage. Battleships are frustrating that way.

*Shudder*

I remember getting through the Kawachi. Regular prayers to RNGesus helps.


Speaking of bad players, I nuked the **** out of an enemy DD driver with my torpedoes. Dude didn't even try to dodge or fire his own at me; just sailed along pinking away with his tiny guns.

If it wasn't an extreme case of tunnel vision, it could also be a very young player - I let my son play a game on the Haidate but I forgot to turn the game mode back to Co-op.

[Yana]

Speaking of bad players, I nuked the **** out of an enemy DD driver with my torpedoes. Dude didn't even try to dodge or fire his own at me; just sailed along pinking away with his tiny guns.

If this was a low tier match, it could be that they player wasn't experienced enough to expect you to have torpedoes. While it is well known that IJN CLs from tier 3 onwards (along with the USN tier 4-5 CLs) have torpedoes, a novice player might make the assumption that guns are the only things they have to worry about.

Basic advice for everyone: If you see an IJN cruiser within 7 km, assume that torpedoes are in the water and start turning away. You'll live longer if you maneuver as soon as you spot a ship that's capable of launching them. While it may cost you some of your guns on the target while you turn about, it's certainly preferable to the alternative of getting blown out of the water for keeping the same course at all costs.

This is why I don't use the waypoint autopilot for anything other than early game CV positioning. I need to be in control of my ship at all times to make it as unpredictable a target as possible for both torpedoes and enemy guns.

[Janwin]

On my Wyoming (T4), two shells from one turret will often bracket my bloody target fore and aft... while it's broadside to me! How the hell am I supposed to hit anything?

Simple answer: you aren't.

Not as a US BB, at least. If you want to reliably hit targets, you need to go IJN. Then you have more range and more accuracy, but you have less guns (generally).

It doesn't get better until you reach the New Mexico. That thing is a beast, and the accuracy of its guns is immensely satisfying after grinding through the South Carolina, Wyoming and New York. But you're still outranged by IJN ships 2 tiers lower than you (until you get your second hull, which has a scout plane for some short range extensions).


If you think the South Carolina is bad; the T3 IJN BB, the Kawachii, will horrify you.

Kawachi: hands down the worst ship in the entire game. Even worse than the Colorad'oh!, which takes effort.

[mangosta71]

If this was a low tier match, it could be that they player wasn't experienced enough to expect you to have torpedoes. While it is well known that IJN CLs from tier 3 onwards (along with the USN tier 4-5 CLs) have torpedoes, a novice player might make the assumption that guns are the only things they have to worry about.

I was driving a DD, though. That's what made it funny. He didn't think it was ominous at all that I wasn't bothering to fire my guns, and then he was a sinking fireball.

[Jonzac]

I've seen a lot of posts on the official forums that seem to indicate we'll get to keep it, but I haven't seen an official developer statement on the subject. People on the forums over there apparently get really rude when you ask this though.

I haven't read the forums, but when WoT left open beta all data was wiped...I can't imagine they won't do the same thing again.

[Yana]

I haven't read the forums, but when WoT left open beta all data was wiped...I can't imagine they won't do the same thing again.

Considering though that they've already wiped progress twice when they went from Closed Alpha to Closed Beta and now from Closed to Open Beta (and given the considerable player base that Ships has amassed during this time), I'd wager that Wargaming is going to go with a soft release where they just keep patching the game from here on out and eventually call one of them the release patch.

[Janwin]

Highly probable.

They'd alienate a lot of people if they did wipe it after OBT. That'd be the 3rd or 4th time for some people to have ground to Tier X, and would lead to a lot of angry feelings.

[rs2excelsior]

Just downloaded the game today and fought my first couple of matches. Looks pretty fun... but it's going to take a while to get the hang of it (and probably a better internet connection :smalltongue:)

I'm known as PvtSnyder on the NA server over there, for the purposes of the player list.

[Jonzac]

Highly probable.

They'd alienate a lot of people if they did wipe it after OBT. That'd be the 3rd or 4th time for some people to have ground to Tier X, and would lead to a lot of angry feelings.


That maybe true, but I can tell you that is what happened exactly in WoT. All close Alpha players got a premium tank and some gold, but that is it. All Open Beta player had the opportunity to buy a pre-order package...just like everyone else. Heck the first month was nothing but T10E9 or something Tier 8, with Pz V/IV Tier 6 and the A32 for Tier 4 until people could grind up to get the tanks.

They won't let you keep your Tier X ships and full upgraded models inbetween as that would be a HUGE advantage against any new player. I'm almost 100% sure a complete reset will happen.

[Yana]

That maybe true, but I can tell you that is what happened exactly in WoT. All close Alpha players got a premium tank and some gold, but that is it. All Open Beta player had the opportunity to buy a pre-order package...just like everyone else. Heck the first month was nothing but T10E9 or something Tier 8, with Pz V/IV Tier 6 and the A32 for Tier 4 until people could grind up to get the tanks.

They won't let you keep your Tier X ships and full upgraded models inbetween as that would be a HUGE advantage against any new player. I'm almost 100% sure a complete reset will happen.

Which is why I stated that they'd probably do a soft-release by just keeping progress from Open Beta. That way they let people keep playing and keep their stats/ships. I mean, the game is effectively in release at this point now (admittedly with a very bare-bones structure, but is that really surprising for a Wargaming product?)

On another note, I just handed a Bogue (USN T5 CV) pilot the ultimate humiliation: making him torp himself into the grave.

[Brother Oni]

Considering though that they've already wiped progress twice when they went from Closed Alpha to Closed Beta and now from Closed to Open Beta (and given the considerable player base that Ships has amassed during this time), I'd wager that Wargaming is going to go with a soft release where they just keep patching the game from here on out and eventually call one of them the release patch.

To be fair, I can see the points of resets at those points as it enables Wargaming to gather data on low tier ship performance. I was also under the impression that the Alpha and Closed Beta players had a 100% bonus to earned xp and credits to help the grind, although having to get through ships like Kawachi three times would be horrible no matter how quick it is.


I mean, the game is effectively in release at this point now (admittedly with a very bare-bones structure, but is that really surprising for a Wargaming product?)

Again to be fair, the game's only just reached open beta, so a bare bones structure is not unexpected. Wargaming have their faults, but let's blame them for things that are actually their fault.

[mangosta71]

Given the concept, how much structure do you really need or expect? At this point, all they can do is add more countries' navies (and maps I guess, though I've never felt that more maps add as much to games like this as most people seem to) unless they want to switch to something like Gaijin's ranking/progression system. But why would they copy another company when the system they have seems to be making their players happy?

[Yana]

Oh, in case anyone didn't know/realize this yet, holding the alt key gives you additional information in the middle of the battle. While having the actual numbers of an enemy's health bar spelled out is no doubt handy, there are two pieces of information that make this feature invaluable: 1. It points out the distance from your ship to the area your reticule is highlighting, 2: It calculates how long it'll take your shots to travel this distance.

Enjoy the accuracy boost!

[Brother Oni]

Oh, in case anyone didn't know/realize this yet, holding the alt key gives you additional information in the middle of the battle. While having the actual numbers of an enemy's health bar spelled out is no doubt handy, there are two pieces of information that make this feature invaluable: 1. It points out the distance from your ship to the area your reticule is highlighting, 2: It calculates how long it'll take your shots to travel this distance.

Enjoy the accuracy boost!

There's also an option in the settings to turn this on permanently.

One interesting thing I've heard - the horizontal markers on your reticle in sniper mode correspond to seconds of travel and can be used a rough rule of thumb for how much lead you need to hit a target.
I've been trying it out this supposition and it kinda works - particularly fast/slow moving ships throw it off, but as a rule of thumb, it's not too bad.

On a related subject, does anybody have any suggestions for how to judge lead on a ship heading directly towards you? I can never get it right on distances greater than ~10km and on a BB, that can be fatal.

Story time - I was shooting at a Phoenix that appeared to be moving unusually slowly at about 14km, only for my shots to land 'short'. I watched him for a bit, then realised the sneaky git was sailing backwards in an attempt to throw off the lead adjustment. Top marks for inventiveness, but it's a trick that only works briefly, not to mention it's hard to revert back to normal play once you've been rumbled.

On a final unrelated note, any suggestions on how to avoid dive bombers as a DD? I was targeted by them for the first time last night and they absolutely wrecked me.

[Yana]

Any suggestions on how to avoid dive bombers as a DD? I was targeted by them for the first time last night and they absolutely wrecked me.

Swerve around like crazy is your best bet, they have to line up on you before they commit. Also make sure you turn off your AA guns (Hit P) so that you don't get spotted by them in the first place if you're trying to be stealthy.

While dive bombers are the biggest threat to a DD that a CV presents, I can attest that actually hitting one is mostly roulette.

[Janwin]

On a related subject, does anybody have any suggestions for how to judge lead on a ship heading directly towards you? I can never get it right on distances greater than ~10km and on a BB, that can be fatal.

If you're in a BB, count out seconds to yourself. Mark a spot where they start, count 1 second (you may want to do 4 or 5 seconds if they're really slow to get a better estimate). Then compare it to travel time and adjust your aim accordingly.

So if the CL moves a quarter of its ship length in 1 second, and your shell travel time is 8 seconds, you need to aim 2 ship lengths ahead of it.

If the BB moves a quarter of its ship length in 4 seconds, and your shell travel time is 8 seconds, you need to aim half a ship length ahead of it.

Really only works for BBs, though, since your reload is so long it's a better idea to spend a few extra seconds to range in before firing than just spamming waves of fire and correcting as they land.

[Maelstrom]

Great discussion here. I joined a few weeks ago during the final days of the CBT, was unable to play (darn work!) for awhile, and now back into it... Looking forward to using some of these strategies...

EU Server
CaptMaels

[mangosta71]

Major derp yesterday. The t3 IJN destroyer's torpedoes have a shorter range than the t2. I only sank one enemy battleship because I was shooting at targets 8km away.

[Brother Oni]

If you're in a BB, count out seconds to yourself. Mark a spot where they start, count 1 second (you may want to do 4 or 5 seconds if they're really slow to get a better estimate). Then compare it to travel time and adjust your aim accordingly.

So if the CL moves a quarter of its ship length in 1 second, and your shell travel time is 8 seconds, you need to aim 2 ship lengths ahead of it.

If the BB moves a quarter of its ship length in 4 seconds, and your shell travel time is 8 seconds, you need to aim half a ship length ahead of it.


I'll give this a try, but as I've mentioned, it's hard to judge ship length from the aforementioned angle.


On a separate note, The Mighty Jingles has put up a video explaining how to enable replays on WoWs: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSaQKUT9_aI).

[Yana]

I really should just edit the first post to link to Jingles' WoWS videos, they're both informative and fun.

[Brother Oni]

I really should just edit the first post to link to Jingles' WoWS videos, they're both informative and fun.

I like his anecdotes from his time in the navy - for example, referring to piloting a ship as 'driving' it to really annoy the Navigation officer, as does giving the helicopter pilot who's just set you down a big thumbs up and a 'thank you driver'. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:

Some more Help an Ensign: Torpedos part 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsEgsmeqzGY) and Camouflage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN8XIETHtc8).

[Yana]

You know, for all the complaints that I've heard about IJN DDs being subpar since they nerfed torpedoes in .40, I've not understood why. I just had a 2.6k base xp match in my T4 Isokaze where I sank an Omaha, Wyoming, Phoenix, and Langley, all from full health.

Protip for all you enterprising DD captains out there in the low tiers: The enemy rarely guards the center on Faultline. Rush through there and go for the CVs!

[Abemad]

You know, for all the complaints that I've heard about IJN DDs being subpar since they nerfed torpedoes in .40, I've not understood why. I just had a 2.6k base xp match in my T4 Isokaze where I sank an Omaha, Wyoming, Phoenix, and Langley, all from full health.

I think it's on tiers above 5 that they are subpar (after the Minekaze), not that I agree with that assessment, but it does require a certain playstyle to rely only on torps...

[Brother Oni]

I think it's on tiers above 5 that they are subpar (after the Minekaze), not that I agree with that assessment, but it does require a certain playstyle to rely only on torps...

Indeed. Learning to hide behind islands for enemy ships is a very good start - I watched an Isokaze do pretty much this all game and he absolutely cleaned up (matched by me in the only carrier of the game, thus I could spare my fighters to spot for him).

[LongVin]

Any advice for dispersing skill points to commanders for various classes of ships?

[Janwin]

What's that? Tier 8 match? Tier 6 BB? No problem!

http://i.imgur.com/yEMElGU.jpg

I frickin' love the New Mexico. Range is a little bit of a problem, but otherwise it's an absolute beast.

[LongVin]

So I just got my first carrier (eeeee!)

A question though. When I switch to the up close mode by using middle mouse button is there any easy way for me to set up a torpedo run against ships? It seems like I have to jump back into the map mode to properly use torpedos as it doesn't let me select the ship.

[Brother Oni]

Any advice for dispersing skill points to commanders for various classes of ships?

It depends on what ship type and what nationality - USN DDs get less out of torpedo skills than IJN ones, likewise aircraft skills are of minimal or no use on anything other than CVs.

The following suggestions are only my opinion and depending on your gameplay style, other skills may serve you better:

All DDs will need Situational Awareness (not being spotted is their best defence), after that it's split between IJN and USN DDs.
IJN ones will go for Torpedo Armament Expertise, while USN should also pick up Basic Firing Training then probably Aiming Expert (some will suggest Incoming Fire Alert instead).

Both will tend towards Superintendent, unless you play a USN DD like a picket ship (scout and generally keep the IJN DDs from getting close enough to torp friendlies), in which case Vigilance might serve you better.

Advance Firing Training for USN and IJN will probably want Last Stand.

Both will want Concealment Expert.


Both will want Basic Firing Training, and while USN will want Aiming Expert, IJN may want this as well instead of Torpedo Armament Expertise.
The Tier 3 and 5 skills are up to you, but both will want the Tier 4 Advanced Firing Training.


I don't have an USN BB, but here's what I have on my IJN commander: Basics of Survivability, Aiming Expert, High Alert and currently saving up for Advanced Firing Training and will probably pick up Jack of All Trades.

There's a case to be made for Superintendent (+1 Repair Party is nice) and with their high health, Last Chance isn't an abysmal pick any more.


This one is simple, all the aircraft skills and Torpedo Armament Expertise. That said, I'm not entirely sure which aircraft have rear gunners and there's a very good argument for Situational Awareness for those DDs which sneak through.
Dogfighting Expert doesn't help out IJN fighters at the lower tiers (plus USN 6 fighter squadrons will wreck yours regardless) and USN CVs don't get as big a boost out of Air Supremacy as IJN ones do.

Superintendent is of no use and I've seen quite a defensive build for CV captains who intend to slug it out with the opposing carriers involving Basics of Survivability and High Alert.

Getting a Tier 5 skill (which will unlock all the tiers at the same time) will cost a grand total of 15 points and commanders either have 19 or 20 skills (I've seen both numbers bandied about), so you can pick multiple skills from a tier. Higher tier ships may want different skills (I've only just starting to reach tier 5), for example the cruiser lines when they switch from light to armoured and get 202mm guns instead of 155mm.


So I just got my first carrier (eeeee!)

A question though. When I switch to the up close mode by using middle mouse button is there any easy way for me to set up a torpedo run against ships? It seems like I have to jump back into the map mode to properly use torpedos as it doesn't let me select the ship.

That's odd. I definitely remember being able to click an enemy ship with a torpedo squadron highlighted (you may need to right click on the minimap first then scroll the screen around a bit with the arrow keys to find them first).
Clicking on a ship should set up an automatic bombing run, although you'd probably want to Alt-LClick on the main screen to manually drop torpedos (there's a minimum arming distance, so don't drop them too close).

Word of warning, if your bombers come under fire, then they will switch from a narrow spread to a wide spread and USN bombers come in squadrons of 6 in comparison to the IJN 4, so they drop more torpedos at a time.

I don't have any USN carriers, so I don't have any further tips on their gameplay.

[Yana]

I think I've come to the firm conclusion that I'm a much better DD and CL captain than I ever will be a BB or CV driver. I need the speed, maneuverability (or pseudo-maneuverability), and rate of fire that the former classes offer.

That and being the single Langley against an Independence and Ryujo wherein my fighters were swatted aside and I was subsequently obliterated within the first three minutes of a match has probably soured me on the entire matter.

[GloatingSwine]

I can rock face in CL and BB, long range gunnery is very much my deal, had some great games in the Phoenix and Omaha. Also who doesn't love getting massive citadel penetration damage on people who haven't figured out the 2 button yet.

Destroyers, however, tend to explode really quite swiftly if I'm driving them. Need to figure out how to actually torpedoes.

[iyaerP]

So is it just me or is the St Louis actually better than the Phoenix? Because that is how I feel having just gotten my phoenix and not really being able to do much with it.

[Brother Oni]

Help an Ensign: Guide to HE and AP shells (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWpRYMqp6wE) is up.

Wargaming have also released their own tutorial of when to use HE and AP: Bad Advice #1: Always use AP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLUy27T-Xeg).


I can rock face in CL and BB, long range gunnery is very much my deal, had some great games in the Phoenix and Omaha. Also who doesn't love getting massive citadel penetration damage on people who haven't figured out the 2 button yet.

There's nothing quite like firing shells at a 18+km target then 12 seconds later getting the 'beep' notification of target hit. :smallbiggrin:


So is it just me or is the St Louis actually better than the Phoenix? Because that is how I feel having just gotten my phoenix and not really being able to do much with it.

The St Louis is better assuming that you're within 10.4km of your target, there aren't any hostile aircraft and your target's top speed is less than 22 knots.

Generally the stock ship of the current tier is worse than the fully upgraded ship of the previous tier, so once you get a couple of modules researched, your Phoenix will get much better, particularly when you get the hull upgrades which gives you more guns.

As described on the previous page, both the Phoenix and the Omaha are glass cannons, using their speed and range to dance about enemy fire while raining down hot firey death on the enemy. This is considerably different to the St Louis who charges in and damage races the enemy to death.

[qechua]

That and being the single Langley against an Independence and Ryujo wherein my fighters were swatted aside and I was subsequently obliterated within the first three minutes of a match has probably soured me on the entire matter.

This is the main issue I've had with carriers, they have a lot more potential for bad matchups than any other class. My Bogue has the 2 x fighter, 1 x dive bomber loadout, and if I'm in a match with no enemy carriers, I'm basically useless (particularly when the enemy team has 4 Clevelands :(), so our team is effectively a ship down. Make me solo carrier against two bomber loaded CV's, however, and I'm away.


So is it just me or is the St Louis actually better than the Phoenix? Because that is how I feel having just gotten my phoenix and not really being able to do much with it.

I've found the St Louis is a small battleship, so you 'just' go broadside and shell (this isn't how you actually play BB, but for St Louis it's good enough). It's a nice ship, but lulls you into a false sense of style, particularly against battleships. The Phoenix and Omaha are more like big destroyers, so do more weaving and extreme range shooting, leveraging your ability to change speed/course to avoid being hit, sacrificing your ability to hit to do so. I think the Cleveland is the first proper cruiser the US get, but I don't have it yet so can't comment.

Also, had a great game last night. Got put in a match where I was the joint lowest tier (in my New York), on that map where the teams are split in half and placed in corners. Ended up sinking a carrier (+1 tier), a cruiser (+2 tiers), one shotting an Atlanta (ok, RNG smiled on me there, getting 3 citadels in my first volley, and landing all 10 shells on his deck at about 12km), then trading fire with another cruiser (+1 tier) before finally going down, on fire, flooding, engine down and missing a turret. Without the 1.5x first victory, I think I got about 2,500 xp.

Makes up for the match a few days ago where my guns bugged and got stuck on 'fixed to relative', so effectively I couldn't shoot. Still got a BB kill from ramming (they really don't expect a Wyoming to charge straight at them, all guns silent).

[GloatingSwine]

So is it just me or is the St Louis actually better than the Phoenix? Because that is how I feel having just gotten my phoenix and not really being able to do much with it.

Phoenix (and Omaha) is all about that gun range and speed. You will want the hull upgrades to mount an actual number of guns, but the way to use it is to drive around close to your max range and drop shells on people using your superior speed to control the range of engagement.

[mangosta71]

An alternative for the Phoenix and Omaha is to drive them like big destroyers. Use those torpedoes; a lot of your opponents will forget that you have them and won't take proper evasive action. Watch for an enemy BB that's locked onto one of your teammates and use your superior speed and maneuverability to slip around to his other side where you can shell him with impunity.

[iyaerP]

I've been trying to do the destroyer thing with them, but it hasn't really worked, and I tend to die a lot.

[GloatingSwine]

The problem with using the Phoenix/Omaha as ghetto destroyers is that they can't do the sneaking up on people thing, and they're big enough, soft enough targets that enemies will drop huge damage on you as you try and approach.

Torpedoes are there as a last resort on US cruisers.

[qechua]

Something else to remember with the Omaha (can't remember if it also holds true for the Phoenix) is the side guns have a limited traverse. Normally, this is a bad thing, but with the Omaha's turning circle, it's possible to pull a circle and still be firing to near full effect. This is good a) if your rudder gets jammed and b) because people generally don't expect a ship to pull a donut; if it starts turning it's either going 180 to retreat or it's just evading/repositioning. Sparing use of a 270/360 at range gives you another option, particularly against BB's who don't want to waste their volley.

[Brother Oni]

I've just gone from the IJN CL line (Kuma) to the CA line (Furutaka) and it's a pretty major change in gameplay.

While the Kuma is the quick, agile, high ROF ship that all the earlier tier CLs are, the Furutaka plays much more like a BB, although without the HP and armour (its guns can't even track the same point at full rudder, much like a BB and the 21 second shell change time is only 9 seconds off the Myogi's reload time).

While I'm used to playing BBs (only 1k xp off the Burning Love of the Kongo! :smallbiggrin:), I hope the Furutaka is going to improve a bit when I unlock more modules, else I might go back down to the Kuma.

I know the ship was historically badly overweight, but every time I pull a full rudder turn at top speed, the ship looks like it's going to capsize (I wonder if firing the inside 200mm guns at the turn apex would be enough to tip it?)


Torpedoes are there as a last resort on US cruisers.

They're also useful for area denial as the range is sufficient to scare off destroyers trying to sneak through channels between islands and their slow speed makes sure it's closed off for a little while (or at least long enough for you to get some space).
I find they're also good for a speculative shot around an island just before you disappear around the other side of it.


Something else to remember with the Omaha (can't remember if it also holds true for the Phoenix) is the side guns have a limited traverse. Normally, this is a bad thing, but with the Omaha's turning circle, it's possible to pull a circle and still be firing to near full effect. This is good a) if your rudder gets jammed and b) because people generally don't expect a ship to pull a donut; if it starts turning it's either going 180 to retreat or it's just evading/repositioning. Sparing use of a 270/360 at range gives you another option, particularly against BB's who don't want to waste their volley.

I have a habit of using the Q and E rudder controls rather than the A and D controls, so I tend to get stuck pulling donuts quite often when I get critical'ed. It works for a bit until they realise what I'm doing then I just get shot up.

[mangosta71]

I'm finding that pretty much every shot that hits a ship that I'm driving kills my engines. The first hit takes it out, I pop my repair party, and before I even get back up to speed it's out of commission again. Getting my rudder jammed would be a nice change of pace.

[Yana]

Some ships are more prone to having their steering or engines hit. Having both happen on a DD is pretty common because most of the time if a DD gets hit, people led the ship with barely enough space and consequently the shots hit the back of the DD.

The Phoenix though is the ship that I've easily had the most problems with the steering getting knocked out. On more than one occasion I've had my rudder knocked out and been set on fire, repaired both, and then promptly had the rudder taken out again leaving me to steam in circles for the next two minutes. Sadly, there's not much you can do about it, though as mentioned, the Phoenix/Omaha's gun setup means you can at least fire some of your guns in this situation.

[mangosta71]

It happens to me when I'm driving my St. Louis, too. Last game I was in I was dead in the water from pretty much the moment that the first shot of the match was fired. I still took two of the enemy down with me, but I feel like I could have done much better if I'd been able to move.

[GloatingSwine]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Uberbucket/shot-15.07.30_20.52.59-0329_zpslltpsr8u.jpg

If I'd been a bit smarter avoiding that last carrier's torpedoes (I was on about 7k health by that point) I could have made that four kills.

[Yana]

Here's an opportunity for you guys to get a free ship and a port slot, just input the Bonus Code: ALBANY on the WoWS website for a free T2 USS Albany and a port slot for it.

Really though, all you want is the port slot. The Albany has the lowest gun range of any ship in the game that isn't a CV.

[mangosta71]

The Jingles review of the Albany (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coCZCcpww6w&index=21&list=PLSPT1I-KtyUGqtE1sFaWcQ8aNmdaEtfEU). It's been a couple weeks since I watched it, but I seem to recall phrases like "absolutely terrible" and "it only costs $1.49, but they're still overcharging for this hunk of garbage".

Still, woohoo for the free port slot!

[rs2excelsior]

So my dad's gotten into WoWS as well, but he's having a bit of an issue with it. Every now and then, when the game loads, he'll have the user interface and all, but nothing else. The screen is just black, except for the gun marker and ship markers. It doesn't happen in every battle, and we haven't been able to find a pattern of this happening with one particular ship or type of battle. I haven't had this issue, and a look at the Wargaming site hasn't come up with anything. So if anyone else has any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

[Brother Oni]

So my dad's gotten into WoWS as well, but he's having a bit of an issue with it. Every now and then, when the game loads, he'll have the user interface and all, but nothing else. The screen is just black, except for the gun marker and ship markers. It doesn't happen in every battle, and we haven't been able to find a pattern of this happening with one particular ship or type of battle. I haven't had this issue, and a look at the Wargaming site hasn't come up with anything. So if anyone else has any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

Obligatory 'Has he updated his graphics drivers?' question.

Has he tried changing his graphics settings? Maybe there's a particular parameter that makes things flakey?

If that doesn't lead anywhere useful, could you list the graphics card and other system settings and I'll have a dig around.

[rs2excelsior]

I'll try playing around with the graphics settings. Although we've gone through a few more fights, and it appears to be just random battles. Co-op battles work fine, but battles against other players and there's nothing.

If that doesn't work, I'll look up the graphics card and whatnot and let y'all know. To be honest, I have no idea how long since the drivers have been updated.

[mangosta71]

So I oneshot a South Carolina with my little Wakatake. Well, I say oneshot, but it was a full salvo of 4 torpedoes. Still immensely satisfying, especially since he nuked me with his guns.

I'd just put a St. Louis down at extreme torpedo range and was going to start hunting in the narrows/popping in and out to snipe. Had a few seconds left on my torp reload when the SC and I both came around an island at the same time; we had 2km between us. I started trying to turn around so I could hide behind the island again, my torps finished reloading, and I got them into the water about half a second before his salvo hit. Blew me right out of the water, but we'd come out of the channels broadside to each other and at that range he didn't have a chance to dodge. Boom.

Exacerbating the comedic effect was that the enemy driver had complained about how he was probably going to spend the match dodging torpedoes when it started and we saw how many destroyers were on each team, and then he raged while his ship sank because he'd been torpedoed.

[Sayt]

I recall Jingles saying that Torpedos mostly kill bad players. And thinking about a lot of the times I've died to torpedos, I think I actually agree? I was, by and large, doing dumb-ass stuff, driving in too close confines, hugging islands too close to hostile territory, not maneuvering, etc.

And most of the torpedo hits I get are from the same thing: Carriers sitting dead in the water, cruisers and battleships coming around an island not expecting Mr. Minekaze to be sitting there with his torpedo broadside.

There are exceptions, of course: That thing Carriers do where you get two torp bomber squadrons coming in at you from 90 degrees of each other is evil, and sometimes the IJN long range torpedos can get you from the spotting of an allied Cruiser's Fighter before they even know which control point you're going for.

And sometimes you just get extremely lucky and get 15x Torpedo hits, 4 kills, and a High cal......in a wickes?!


Also, just having torpedos can be helpful for figuring out an enemies direction at long range with odd angles.


I'm Saytael on the North American server

[Yana]

And the thing is, you don't even need torpedoes to do a lot of damage. Just a rapid fire gun, HE, and an enemy team that willfully ignores you. See this match I just had:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l451/Raltis/shot-15.08.03_19.28.12-0273.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l451/Raltis/shot-15.08.03_19.28.26-0576.jpg

This was also the first time I ever got a Close Quarters combat medal.

Also for those who don't recognize those medals, they were Double Strike (kill two ships within 10 seconds of each other), Close Quarter Expert (do over 20% of YOUR ship's health worth in damage to another ship with your secondary guns and sink it), High Caliber (damage 4 enemy ships and deal a total of over 30% of the entire enemy team's health to all of your targets), and Arsonist (kill an enemy ship, 40% of the damage dealt by you to that ship has to come from fire damage, not HE or AP).

Despite the fact that the shell velocity for the Cleveland is pathetic now, I still love it to bits.

[Jonzac]

Here's an opportunity for you guys to get a free ship and a port slot, just input the Bonus Code: ALBANY on the WoWS website for a free T2 USS Albany and a port slot for it.

Really though, all you want is the port slot. The Albany has the lowest gun range of any ship in the game that isn't a CV.

Bummer, I must have missed it

[Sayt]

And the thing is, you don't even need torpedoes to do a lot of damage. Just a rapid fire gun, HE, and an enemy team that willfully ignores you. See this match I just had:



Well no, you don't need torpedos. Especially on Battleships and half-decent cruisers like the Cleveland or the Aoba.

On the other hand, the -Kaze destroyers have guns which turn like mud and take forever to reload considering they're sub 155mm. They need their torps to hit.

Also, there's a certain amount of maniacal, evil genius pleasure in watching a while spread of torpedoes just obliterate someone :smallbiggrin:

[mangosta71]

Yes, there certainly is. Last night, for my first game in my brand-new Isokaze, I sprinted across the map and slipped around the enemy screen to torpedo their Bogue at point-blank range. On my way back toward the fray I scored a magazine hit on a Cleveland with another torpedo. What probably made it even worse for that poor cruiser driver was that he had spotted me on my initial attempt to get past; I had just circled wide around an island and struck from a different direction when he probably thought that he had chased me away. He also did a fair amount of damage to me and likely would have killed me without that lucky torp shot; I was in red hp and my rudder was jammed when it hit.

[LordDavenport]

So I have come to love the tenryu. I started playing it because I had elited my st. louis and wanted to play with some friends that had just started playing. A destroyer big enough to actually kinda brawl is amazing.

Do up tier IJN cruisers behave the same?

[Sayt]

So I have come to love the tenryu. I started playing it because I had elited my st. louis and wanted to play with some friends that had just started playing. A destroyer big enough to actually kinda brawl is amazing.

Do up tier IJN cruisers behave the same?

The Tenryu and the Kuma are very similar, basically Destroyer Flagships. The Furutaka is empahatically not. It mounts bigger guns, but they turn incredibly slowly. The Aoba is again different, but much better. It's not as small and fast as the Tenryu and Kuma, but it has pretty good guns which turn pretty quick, it's pretty maneuverable and pretty fast. The Aoba and up all follow the same pattern, to best my knowledge, though I've only gotten as high as the Aoba and a few games in the Mogami before the wipe.

I spent most of the gold I got with the Yubari converting elite XP to get past the Furutaka.

[Brother Oni]

So I have come to love the tenryu. I started playing it because I had elited my st. louis and wanted to play with some friends that had just started playing. A destroyer big enough to actually kinda brawl is amazing.

Do up tier IJN cruisers behave the same?

To clarify Sayt's post a bit, the Kuma and below are light cruisers, so play much like a big destroyer, although with decent guns and nice long range for their tier.

The Furutaka is an armoured cruiser and plays like a battleship lite, although without the armour, hp buffer and big guns. Exacerbating the issue is that its main battery is 200mm (203 with the upgrade), so the Commander skills that help reload times and gun turning speed no longer apply or work at a reduced effect.
It's not bad once you adjust your expectations and get used to it, but it's a massive shock to the system from the Kuma and it helps significantly if you have experience with playing battleships (having a separate commander for the Furutaka is also a good idea).

I can't say above the Furutaka as I'm midway through the grind for that.

[mangosta71]

To clarify Sayt's post a bit, the Kuma and below are light cruisers, so play much like a big destroyer, although with decent guns and nice long range for their tier.
So, the Kuma and the Tenryu, since the Hachidate and Chikuma are gunboats and thus play more similarly to American cruisers of their tier than destroyers.

And more specifically, the Kuma and Tenryu play like large American destroyers; your primary weapons are your guns, because you have to get well within detection range to use your torpedoes. IJN destroyers can (and should try to) kill without ever getting close enough to be spotted.

[Jonzac]

Ugh. I hate Battleships. I don't like the play or the slow speed or anything about them...however, I'm forced to play them to get the CVs.

There are only two things I think need changed.

1. Making me run through BBs to get to CVs.
2. The speed and range of torpedoes (with the damage they cause) is too extremely. Frankly, the most dangerous ship on the ocean is a DD or fast IJN cruiser....which is NOT what history has proven to be true.

[mangosta71]

The big battles of the Pacific were mostly fought at ranges at which nothing but carriers really mattered. And even in the game, I've seen carrier drivers rack up the highest scores. However, if you're unfamiliar with the potential effectiveness of destroyers engaging battleships and cruisers, you might want to look up Taffy 3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar), which, in one of the exceptions to the above rule, held back a vastly superior IJN force.

All that said, the damage rendering in WoWS is not very realistic. It's not intended to be; the point is that combat between two ships of the same tier should primarily be determined by skill.

[GloatingSwine]

2. The speed and range of torpedoes (with the damage they cause) is too extremely. Frankly, the most dangerous ship on the ocean is a DD or fast IJN cruiser....which is NOT what history has proven to be true.

Don't drive in straight lines.

Unless someone is launching torpedoes too close for you to react (in which case why were you letting them get that close), you should be taking minimal if any damage from them because they should be missing you.

[Jonzac]

Don't drive in straight lines.

Unless someone is launching torpedoes too close for you to react (in which case why were you letting them get that close), you should be taking minimal if any damage from them because they should be missing you.

I actually don't have an extremely difficult time with DDs as I can see them (most of the time) and keep track of potential locations. The biggest problem I have with torps is not the damage or the stealth...its the reload time. They reload as fast as a Battleship's main armament, which is what truly makes them too powerful in my book.

I remember Taffy 3, but I would say that is an outlier, much like the success of the IJN destroyers in the Guadalcanal Express night battles which play right into the hands of the Long Lance torpedoes.

I like the game overall, Aircraft are a bit too able to get through the flak cloud (at least through Tier V). Torpedo bombers need to come in slower and lower for longer than they do in the game, however, they are counterable if only the CV drivers would keep a fighter around the major concentration of allied ships.

[GloatingSwine]

I actually don't have an extremely difficult time with DDs as I can see them (most of the time) and keep track of potential locations. The biggest problem I have with torps is not the damage or the stealth...its the reload time. They reload as fast as a Battleship's main armament, which is what truly makes them too powerful in my book.


The point is that torpedoes are only dangerous to bad players. They're easy to dodge if you pay attention, don't drive in straight lines when destroyers are around, turn into torpedo bombers when they're coming for you, and generally play like you don't want to be hit by torpedoes.

In other news: Further episodes of How To Omaha.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Uberbucket/Omaha%20Shootbang_zpsnxzgkkal.png

(Yes, some poor bastard drove an Albany in a tier 5 game, it was a mercy killing....)

[LordDavenport]

The biggest problem I have with torps is not the damage or the stealth...its the reload time. They reload as fast as a Battleship's main armament, which is what truly makes them too powerful in my book.

and during that 30~ sec you are a paper boat made of hopes and dreams. As long as whatever you are targeting isn't derping off all by itself, there should be a cruiser that can end you nearby. Whereas a BB generally takes a bit of work to kill.

I real engagement terms, you won't get a reload. or you will get one more before you sink. If you aren't in an actual engagement, the speed doesn't matter, because you can keep stealthing around.

honestly I like the torp mechanic... it is artillery without the sky cancer name calling.
If you can hit me with a torp, it was because I was playing poorly. As long as you aren't a destroyer and the torp doesn't get a citadel, you can generally tank 1-2 torp hits in a game. Honestly that is a very fair margin of error.

BBs are the most fun to jink torp spreads in. It is a pain, but if you can it is so worth it. guiding a wyoming through a gap in a spread makes you feel like a leaf on the wind.

I will admit the torp bombers can be a pain if you can't turn into the spread, but they are a per game resource.

[mangosta71]

They only reload as fast as BB guns when you first get into destroyers. By the time you get to tier 3-4, it's taking 45-50 seconds to reload. It gets slower as you progress up the tree; at tier 10, it takes more than 2 minutes to reload.

[LordDavenport]

Don't you get more tubes or something?
then again, they hit 20km range at T10 on the IJN.

[Yana]

And if you hit anything at those ranges, the person you hit must be a moron for not seeing them coming.

[mangosta71]

You get more tubes, yes. The top-tier destroyers get 3 launchers with 5 tubes each. However, you can't fire just one torpedo at a time any more than you can fire just one of the guns mounted in a turret at a time. And as mentioned, you're not going to hit anyone 20km away unless they're afk or exceptionally stupid (what else can you call sailing in a straight line for the 10 minutes it takes a torpedo to traverse that distance?), or possibly if you get really lucky firing blind and someone happens to sail into one. You're still going to be charging into knife-fight range to use them effectively, and then you're in trouble (especially if you're in an IJN destroyer because your guns are godawful).

[mangosta71]

By the way, that "tip" about going center in the Fault Line map is a load of bull****. Every time I try it I sail straight into the teeth of the entire enemy fleet. The only way I've had any success at all on that map is sliding around the edges.

[GloatingSwine]

The only time to go there is if you're a Destroyer and it's a Domination battle, get into B, pop smoke, cap the point and leg it.

[Sayt]

By the way, that "tip" about going center in the Fault Line map is a load of bull****. Every time I try it I sail straight into the teeth of the entire enemy fleet. The only way I've had any success at all on that map is sliding around the edges.

I wouldn't go in the middle on fault line in anything bigger than a destroyer. Also: those two big islands with the channel between them, with the little 'plug' island at the inner side of the channel? I keep on nuking BBs with my minekaze as they come around that island. :smallbiggrin:

[Yana]

By the way, that "tip" about going center in the Fault Line map is a load of bull****. Every time I try it I sail straight into the teeth of the entire enemy fleet. The only way I've had any success at all on that map is sliding around the edges.

I'm fairly certain I stated that was for DDs only.

[mangosta71]

Yeah, I primarily drive DDs. Every time, there are at least 4 enemy ships converging in the center and I get blown to pieces.

[Yana]

You do have to use your discretion when making that move though. If any cruiser gets within 10 km of you, it's better to wait for them to go elsewhere before advancing to their spawn point where the slow BBs are just struggling to make it out.

[Razgriez]

So, I just had one of my best rounds ever in game

Tier V Minekaze. Fault Line (Domination)

Rewards: 176,898 Silver Credits, 3117 XP/ 156 FreeXP(Daily bonus included. without bonus: 2078/104). Devastating Strike X1, High Caliber x1

Battle Performance:
Target Hits (shells):9
Target Hits (Torpedoes): 12
Ships Destroyed: 3 (Ships hit for damage total: 5). Ship classes destroyed: Kongo (BB), Langley (CV), Bogue (CV). Other ships damaged: Tenryu (CL), Myogi (BB)
Fires Caused: 1
Floodings Caused: 10
Captured Base:1

Damage Caused:
HE Shells:4620
Torpedoes: 103844
Fire Damage: 1078
Flooding Damage: 17724

[mangosta71]

Still doesn't work. At least one of the enemy ships going middle is always a destroyer so you'll get spotted every time, and then you're getting shelled from all directions. Seriously, just avoid the middle on Fault Line; it's a deathtrap. You're better off circling around on the flanks or sticking with your allies (or ideally both).

Not quite as bad as driving a South Carolina, though. I still haven't managed to get that pos close enough to return fire before getting nuked into oblivion. I don't understand the "balance" decision that determined that it should have fewer hp than a St. Louis, with shorter range on its guns, and be slower and less maneuverable. Screw BBs. I'll stick with my DDs. At least they can get close enough to get a couple shots off.

[Storm Bringer]

Still doesn't work. At least one of the enemy ships going middle is always a destroyer so you'll get spotted every time, and then you're getting shelled from all directions. Seriously, just avoid the middle on Fault Line; it's a deathtrap. You're better off circling around on the flanks or sticking with your allies (or ideally both).

Not quite as bad as driving a South Carolina, though. I still haven't managed to get that pos close enough to return fire before getting nuked into oblivion. I don't understand the "balance" decision that determined that it should have fewer hp than a St. Louis, with shorter range on its guns, and be slower and less maneuverable. Screw BBs. I'll stick with my DDs. At least they can get close enough to get a couple shots off.

its better than the tier III jap BB, which as a 8Km range. I really, really cannot understand why that was thought of as workable, especially when you are facing T IV-V battleships with 12Km+ range, which translates as "you will die before you can get a shot off"

that happened a few times in history, but should not happen here in a game.

I agree it South Cal isn't great, but its a better ride than the Kawachi.



edit: xerxeskingofking, EU servers, by the way. feel free to add me

[GloatingSwine]

its better than the tier III jap BB, which as a 8Km range. I really, really cannot understand why that was thought of as workable, especially when you are facing T IV-V battleships with 12Km+ range, which translates as "you will die before you can get a shot off"


I had a classic Kawachi game this morning. I fired all of one salvo from my guns (which, admittedly, stole a kill on a Furutaka), and at no point during the entire rest of the match, which we won, was I ever in range of anything.

(PS: 12km is uncomfortably close for tier 5 bbs. The tier 4 Japanese BB has a 15km range, Kawachi is close to being outranged by even tier destroyers, and is handily outdone by all the cruisers in the world.)

[Storm Bringer]

only thing I find that works is to hug coastlines and try and catch targets as they clear the sides.

which is fine if I was driving a light cruiser, but this is supposed to be a BATTLESHIP. I should be the one they are hiding form, not doing the hiding!

[Yana]

I had a classic Kawachi game this morning. I fired all of one salvo from my guns (which, admittedly, stole a kill on a Furutaka), and at no point during the entire rest of the match, which we won, was I ever in range of anything.

(PS: 12km is uncomfortably close for tier 5 bbs. The tier 4 Japanese BB has a 15km range, Kawachi is close to being outranged by even tier destroyers, and is handily outdone by all the cruisers in the world.)

This is exacerbated by one of the skills that captains can pick up. The skill that amplifies the range of AA guns by 20% also increases the range of 155mm guns and below by 20%. As a result, my Farragut can fire from 15.5 km out and my Cleveland can do maybe 17.6 km.

Of course, it takes about a second for these shells to travel 1 km at those ranges, so hitting anything means your opponents just aren't paying attention/aren't maneuvering.

[Sayt]

only thing I find that works is to hug coastlines and try and catch targets as they clear the sides.

which is fine if I was driving a light cruiser, but this is supposed to be a BATTLESHIP. I should be the one they are hiding form, not doing the hiding!

Hugging Coasts in BB's is also likely to get your ship torpedoed: It limits your maneuverability, and the next bay could very well have a destroyer waiting for you to come around the corner.

[Yana]

This is more true of American DDs that don't have the torpedo range to launch torps from stealth like the IJN DDs. As I've learned from bitter experience, IJN DDs can be ANYWHERE.

My paranoia has gotten to the point that if I see a Minekaze or Isokaze on the opposing team, I make it a priority to find and sink them before they do me in.

[Brother Oni]

only thing I find that works is to hug coastlines and try and catch targets as they clear the sides.

which is fine if I was driving a light cruiser, but this is supposed to be a BATTLESHIP. I should be the one they are hiding form, not doing the hiding!

It's worth bearing in mind that due to the way that Wargaming have organised their tech tree, you get a real chronological mishmash of ships appearing at the early tiers of each line. The Kawachi is pre-WW1 dreadnought class ship, so it understandably suffers when going up against newer ships.

[GloatingSwine]

It's worth bearing in mind that due to the way that Wargaming have organised their tech tree, you get a real chronological mishmash of ships appearing at the early tiers of each line. The Kawachi is pre-WW1 dreadnought class ship, so it understandably suffers when going up against newer ships.

Most of the other ships it meets are pre-WWI as well though. South Carolina is actually older than Kawachi. Even the Kongo, the tier 5 IJN battleship, was launched only two years after Kawachi.

In fact, the only WWI battleship it can meet is the New Mexico.

[Brother Oni]

Most of the other ships it meets are pre-WWI as well though. South Carolina is actually older than Kawachi. Even the Kongo, the tier 5 IJN battleship, was launched only two years after Kawachi.

In fact, the only WWI battleship it can meet is the New Mexico.


While the Kongo class lead was laid down only two years after the Kawachii, all the Kongo class ships were rebuilt in the mid to late 1930s (the Kongo herself was redone twice) as fast battleships, which is the version we see in game, so they're not really comparable.

Likewise, as far as I can tell, the New Mexico class never saw combat until WW2, but they were also rebuilt in the early 30s, so it additionally takes advantage of over 10 years of naval developments, not least the lessons learnt from Jutland, putting them in the same situation as the Kongo.


However, I think Storm Bringer's main complaint was that the Kawachi was outperformed by equal tier destroyers and cruisers - having a quick look at the tech trees:

The Wickes class is a late WW1 ship and while the St Louis is older, the difference isn't as great as it seems, as it's a heavy cruiser (technically a protected cruiser before that definition got retired) so has the armour and guns to hold its own against a dreadnought.
The Wakatake DDs are an interwar ship and the Tenryu are a WW1 light cruiser much like the Wickes.

So the only ship that's really comparable chronologically is the St Louis, which I concede I'd rather have instead of a Kawachi, but I'm not sure whether that's because of HE balance / dispersion RNG concerns or because I find the dakka more fun.

I'm not saying the Kawachi is a great ship (although when played to her strengths, she can be surprisingly effective), but she suffers along with the South Carolina as the other 'my first battleship' compared to other ships of the same tier.
The fact that all the the other ships all post date them (sole exception of the St Louis) seems too coincidental for it to be anything other than an intentional design choice.

[Storm Bringer]

While the Kongo class lead was laid down only two years after the Kawachii, all the Kongo class ships were rebuilt in the mid to late 1930s (the Kongo herself was redone twice) as fast battleships, which is the version we see in game, so they're not really comparable.

Likewise, as far as I can tell, the New Mexico class never saw combat until WW2, but they were also rebuilt in the early 30s, so it additionally takes advantage of over 10 years of naval developments, not least the lessons learnt from Jutland, putting them in the same situation as the Kongo.


However, I think Storm Bringer's main complaint was that the Kawachi was outperformed by equal tier destroyers and cruisers - having a quick look at the tech trees:

The Wickes class is a late WW1 ship and while the St Louis is older, the difference isn't as great as it seems, as it's a heavy cruiser (technically a protected cruiser before that definition got retired) so has the armour and guns to hold its own against a dreadnought.
The Wakatake DDs are an interwar ship and the Tenryu are a WW1 light cruiser much like the Wickes.

So the only ship that's really comparable chronologically is the St Louis, which I concede I'd rather have instead of a Kawachi, but I'm not sure whether that's because of HE balance / dispersion RNG concerns or because I find the dakka more fun.

I'm not saying the Kawachi is a great ship (although when played to her strengths, she can be surprisingly effective), but she suffers along with the South Carolina as the other 'my first battleship' compared to other ships of the same tier.
The fact that all the the other ships all post date them (sole exception of the St Louis) seems too coincidental for it to be anything other than an intentional design choice.

to be fair, the South Carolina and the Kawachi were, as the game points out, not just the first BBs you can get, but the first dreadnaught battleships the USN and the IJN actually built, historically.

so, don't mind that the kongo is a better BB. I'd expect that. what bothers me is that the South Cal and the K were built to defeat ships like the St Lou, or the Misaka or Aurora, but iin game they struggle to do so.


ps: as far as I can tell, the stock Kongo is the "early" version of the ship, with the hull mods bringing it to the WW2 version.

[rs2excelsior]

to be fair, the South Carolina and the Kawachi were, as the game points out, not just the first BBs you can get, but the first dreadnaught battleships the USN and the IJN actually built, historically.

Huh, I didn't realize that. So if Wargaming follows that pattern, the German T3 will be the Nassau, and the British T3 will be the Dreadnought? It'd be fun to drive HMS Dreadnought herself.

I'm looking forward to the German ships that are supposed to be coming out soon, by the way. I hope they get the Brits out soon, too.

[Brother Oni]

to be fair, the South Carolina and the Kawachi were, as the game points out, not just the first BBs you can get, but the first dreadnaught battleships the USN and the IJN actually built, historically.

so, don't mind that the kongo is a better BB. I'd expect that. what bothers me is that the South Cal and the K were built to defeat ships like the St Lou, or the Misaka or Aurora, but iin game they struggle to do so.

Actually the earliest BB you get is a tier 2 Premium IJN one handed out to reviewers and other journalists, the Mikasa, which is a pre-dreadnought BB.

While I agree that both tier 3 BBs struggle against the St Louis, part of that maybe due to the weird ship layout that ship has - I've never been able to score a citadel against it.


ps: as far as I can tell, the stock Kongo is the "early" version of the ship, with the hull mods bringing it to the WW2 version.

Huh, I'll have to double check that, but I'm driving a stock Kongo at the moment and she's nowhere near as bad as a Kawachi (the ~15km range on the stock helps a lot).


I'm looking forward to the German ships that are supposed to be coming out soon, by the way. I hope they get the Brits out soon, too.

I believe its the Russian navy next (Wargaming needs to keep their Russian fanbase happy) then the Royal Navy.

[rs2excelsior]

I believe its the Russian navy next (Wargaming needs to keep their Russian fanbase happy) then the Royal Navy.

Really? I saw an announcement recently that a partial German fleet (cruisers and the Bismarck) would be coming out sometime in October. Maybe I missed word that the other ones were on the way, too. Or maybe they're releasing things at different times on the EU and NA servers.

In any case, I'll be happy with some new ships to play with.

[Brother Oni]

Really? I saw an announcement recently that a partial German fleet (cruisers and the Bismarck) would be coming out sometime in October. Maybe I missed word that the other ones were on the way, too. Or maybe they're releasing things at different times on the EU and NA servers.

In any case, I'll be happy with some new ships to play with.

Sorry, I meant it's the Russians after the Germans rather than the Royal Navy.

[Storm Bringer]

Actually the earliest BB you get is a tier 2 Premium IJN one handed out to reviewers and other journalists, the Mikasa, which is a pre-dreadnought BB.

While I agree that both tier 3 BBs struggle against the St Louis, part of that maybe due to the weird ship layout that ship has - I've never been able to score a citadel against it.




I stand by my comment, for two reasons:

1) most users do not buy premium ships, so for most users the tier 3 DNs are their first battleships. especially if it was a limited run freebie to a selected crowd.

2) my exact words were "first dreadnaught battleships", and as you point out, the Misaka is a pre-dreadnaught design.




Huh, I'll have to double check that, but I'm driving a stock Kongo at the moment and she's nowhere near as bad as a Kawachi (the ~15km range on the stock helps a lot).

I havn't got the kongo, but the big "pagoda" superstructure is part of the 1930s refit. the original kongo looked like this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haruna_at_Yokosuka_1916.jpg). The ww2 version looked like this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong%C5%8D-class_battlecruiser#/media/File:Haruna_1934.jpg)

[GloatingSwine]

While I agree that both tier 3 BBs struggle against the St Louis, part of that maybe due to the weird ship layout that ship has - I've never been able to score a citadel against it.


Citadel is close to the waterline and roughly amidships on St. Louis. (for most other low tier cruisers aim to have shells land about 1/3 in from the stern and you'll shred them)

You probably won't get them with cruisers though. St. Louis was a Protected Cruiser (more equivalent to a CA than a CL), well armoured and the coal bunkers surround the citadel armour giving it an additional layer of protection. So yeah, it's hard to penetrate.

[Sayt]

Citadel is close to the waterline and roughly amidships on St. Louis. (for most other low tier cruisers aim to have shells land about 1/3 in from the stern and you'll shred them)

You probably won't get them with cruisers though. St. Louis was a Protected Cruiser (more equivalent to a CA than a CL), well armoured and the coal bunkers surround the citadel armour giving it an additional layer of protection. So yeah, it's hard to penetrate.

The Coal Bunkers must be why they burn so nicely :smallcool:

[Yana]

On the bright side for you BB drivers, the next patch (0.4.1) gives their guns a buff to dispersion (guns become more accurate and shots stray less from where you aim) at point-blank range (3 km or less). It still doesn't address a sudden ambush situation where you only have AP loaded to shoot a DD, but that's how the game works I suppose.

[LordDavenport]

wow I hate the kawachi. Not the genial hate that turned into love and the desire for marriage like the tenryu, but the dull hate of having shorter range then a tier 1. Like, I have taken to driving into the close encounter areas like the bay of get rekd just to have range.

Proudest achievement so far is getting a minekaze to torp both me and its ally isokaze that was pinned against the wall.

Is there a way to play it were it isn't a piece of **** that does nothing and then dies?

[Brother Oni]

I havn't got the kongo, but the big "pagoda" superstructure is part of the 1930s refit. the original kongo looked like this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haruna_at_Yokosuka_1916.jpg). The ww2 version looked like this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong%C5%8D-class_battlecruiser#/media/File:Haruna_1934.jpg)

You're right; stock Kongo is the 1913 version while the second hull is the refitted one.


Is there a way to play it were it isn't a piece of **** that does nothing and then dies?

Play it like a brawler, angle your hull while you're reloading, never drive in a straight line for long and get to the Myogi as soon as possible.

The Kawachi is a tough ship to drive and as Gloating Swine mentioned earlier, you can spend the whole match just trying to drive into range.

[GloatingSwine]

So, ranked battle on the way.


They really need to backport all the fun stuff in WoWS to World of Tonks.

(also, carrier imbalance being corrected, will always be matched tier for tier).

[Beowulf DW]

I think Wargaming might want to rethink some things about the USN carriers. The Saipan class was late or even post-WW2, and would never have had biplanes for anything. The Wasp would be a much better fit, considering it's a diet Yorktown. Sure, she was the only ship of her class, but then so was the Ranger.

EDIT: Also, Enterprise ought to be a premium ship. Her 1942 hull would make her at least as effective as a Lexington, maybe even an Essex.

[Yana]

This, gentlemen, is why people consider the Cleveland to be OP:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l451/Raltis/shot-15.08.16_20.17.11-0982.jpg
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l451/Raltis/shot-15.08.16_20.17.18-0369.jpg

This was probably my greatest match ever. I did over 200k damage, a good third of that was from fire alone.

Oh and the xp total was x2 xp without the 50% boost from Equal Speed Charlie London as I've long since elited the Cleveland.

[Janwin]

Meh. I don't believe the Cleveland is overpowered.

I love 1-shotting them with my New Mexico.

They have a huge citadel area, and if you know how to aim a good volley, 2-3 shell hits will take one out.

Yes, they pour out a constant stream of fire, and the whole flamethrower HE stupidity needs fixing in the game, but the ship itself isn't overpowered since it's really a glass cannon.

[Storm Bringer]

:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfu rious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::s mallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuri ous::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::sma llfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuriou s:


right now, I want to find the developer who decided on the length that flooding affects you, and trap him in a small room that is slowly filling with sewer water.....


its just that awful moment when you realise that you are going to die, in about a minute, and their is nothing you can do about it, expect wait for the painfully slow end as the flooding chips away at your health bar while you stare at your damage control cool down.

your screwed, you can't stop yourself dying, and the damm DD that did this to you is at the bottom already*, but hes still going to get the last laugh, as your miles away form any other target and can achieve nothing else for the match.

can you tell I have mildly pissed off about this?.



* or some sodding CV with torp planes, that you saw coming for you, tried to evade, but still got hit cos your in a BB that makes supertankers look nippy.

[qechua]

Arguably better than being a CV and getting set on fire and flooding, repairing because the other guys planes are withdrawing, then getting set on fire again by some cruiser you didn't see shelling you from max range. You don't even get the satisfaction of watching the bugger sink, because unless you're planes are already loaded and airborne, they ain't doing anything.

Bonus points for the cruiser then shooting down said planes as it closes and the planes return, because they decide to fly pattern while they wait for the fire to extinguish itself and you forgot to divert them.

Double bonus points for being saved by an ally, then feeling guilty because you've 2 fighters and 1 bomber left, and they probably shouldn't have traded half their health to save you.

Personally, I'm more salty that my New York has won exactly 0 of the last 30 games it's been in. I'm not normally one for blaming my team, but I may have rage quit for the evening when 4 of my 'allies' scored less than 100 xp each, and a fifth had -1 kills. Meanwhile, I'm scoring 1,500 xp without flags or premium and wondering just how much work I have to do.

On the plus side, I'm still in love with the Cleveland, and I haven't even fully upgraded it. I think it's just being on the sending end of that ridiculous AA for a change.

[Yana]

On the plus side, I'm still in love with the Cleveland, and I haven't even fully upgraded it. I think it's just being on the sending end of that ridiculous AA for a change.

You haven't seen anything yet when it comes to cruiser AA. One of my favorite moments in Closed Beta came when my Baltimore (T9 USN cruiser) pressured an enemy Shokaku (T8 IJN CV). He sent everything he had at me, and I shot down the majority of them before they even got close thanks to the defensive fire cd. I was obliterated shortly afterwards because I was at the tip of the spear for my team, but I took down over 30 planes in 3 minutes before I went down.

[iyaerP]

So I have noticed that while I don't much care for the phoenix, I tend to be very swingy in it. Some battles I can go down like the Hindenburg, other times, I get battles like this:

http://i.imgur.com/NCL9Bfe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zEglfQ8.jpg

[Storm Bringer]

just been reminded on this little gem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uc3IrJwG7o).

while I apologise for the somewhat annoying techno music, the visuals are pretty impressive.

[Brother Oni]

:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfu rious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::s mallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuri ous::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::sma llfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuriou s:


right now, I want to find the developer who decided on the length that flooding affects you, and trap him in a small room that is slowly filling with sewer water.....


its just that awful moment when you realise that you are going to die, in about a minute, and their is nothing you can do about it, expect wait for the painfully slow end as the flooding chips away at your health bar while you stare at your damage control cool down.

your screwed, you can't stop yourself dying, and the damm DD that did this to you is at the bottom already*, but hes still going to get the last laugh, as your miles away form any other target and can achieve nothing else for the match.

can you tell I have mildly pissed off about this?.



* or some sodding CV with torp planes, that you saw coming for you, tried to evade, but still got hit cos your in a BB that makes supertankers look nippy.

If you're in a BB, I'd suggest saving your Damage Control Party for multiple fires and flooding, since your heal ability can restore nearly all fire/flooding damage since it's classed as 'light damage'.
Knowing when to hold your nerve and not pop your DCP early is part of the BB driver learning process.


With torp planes, you need to buddy up with a friendly cruiser with good AA and make sure you turn into the torp planes line of attack (or at least be in line with them) so that you either hit them before they arm or only take 1 or 2 torps. Changing speed also helps throw off the aim of manual drops.

Planes are generally well marked on the HUD, so they're not like WoT's SPGs surprise instadeath, unless you're completely tunnel visioned in.

[Janwin]

Was in a game with The_Chieftain last night. He was playing a Tirpitz.

That thing took one hell of a beating while dishing out just as much if not more. I'm impressed. Will have to get it.

[Jonzac]

Was in a game with The_Chieftain last night. He was playing a Tirpitz.

That thing took one hell of a beating while dishing out just as much if not more. I'm impressed. Will have to get it.

Yes, I can't wait to see the British and German lines. I am not a fan of BBs, but I will definitely look at them when they come out.

[mangosta71]

Did you happen to look at the German tech tree? I'm curious as to whether the Bismarck and Tirpitz are listed individually, seeing as how they were practically identical sister ships. I assume that they're the top tier German BB(s) as well, seeing as how the Germans never built another ship that size after those two were lost.

[Magentawolf]

After playing so much Dreadnaughts on the C64 as a youth, I really, really want to drive the Bismarck. Or, hell, give me the Rodney or the Prince of Wales, just for fun.

[mangosta71]

HMS Rodney: the only battleship to ever successfully launch a torpedo attack on another battleship. She could be an interesting ride.

Personally, I kind of want to drive the Prinz Eugen.

[GloatingSwine]

Did you happen to look at the German tech tree? I'm curious as to whether the Bismarck and Tirpitz are listed individually, seeing as how they were practically identical sister ships. I assume that they're the top tier German BB(s) as well, seeing as how the Germans never built another ship that size after those two were lost.

My guess is that Bismarck will be the standard tech tree ship (it was the class ship) and Tirpitz will be a premium.

Tirpitz is tier 8, so not sure whether they'll find some napkinwaffen to fill in the top tiers or leave it there. (Probably the former, that's very much WG's style).

[rs2excelsior]

The Germans had plans for some battleships that were bigger and more heavily armed than the Bismarck and Tirpitz (the Class H ships). There was no real chance of Germany ever getting them afloat during the war, but I imagine those or something like them will be the top tier German BBs.

EDIT: I like napkinwaffen. I'll have to use that :smallbiggrin:

[LordDavenport]

It will be interesting to see the other kinds of specializations the other navies offer. The current duality is guns versus torps... though also a bit of range versus dakka.

Seeing more ships in general will be nice.

[Janwin]

Did you happen to look at the German tech tree? I'm curious as to whether the Bismarck and Tirpitz are listed individually, seeing as how they were practically identical sister ships. I assume that they're the top tier German BB(s) as well, seeing as how the Germans never built another ship that size after those two were lost.

They're separate ships in WoWS. The suspicion is that the Tirpitz will be the line ship, since it was a more updated version of the Bismark, and tier ships tend to be better after full upgrades than equal premium ships.

Plus, the Bismark has that whole name-brand thing going for it, which would help increase sales of it as a premium compared to the Tirpitz.

So it's likely Tirpitz for tech tree; Bismark for monies.

They're only Tier 8.

The 9 and 10 are likely to be the Class H ships. I'd suspect H-44 for the Tier 10. 9 could really be any of the others (but probably H-39 as a stepping stone between Bismark/Tirpitz and H-44).

[GloatingSwine]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Uberbucket/shot-15.08.19_21.04.42-0261_zpsfmcxpsgw.jpg

Five of those nine citadel penetrations were from a single salvo against an enemy Kuma....


Low tier cruisers are damage farming win machines.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Uberbucket/shot-15.08.19_22.36.19-0063_zpsech6rr0k.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Uberbucket/shot-15.08.19_22.36.31-0141_zpsjl0wmui9.jpg

Also, cap all the bases yourself in a domination match and be the last one alive because if you want something doing properly.....

[mangosta71]

Haven't unlocked any ships with decent AA, and all three of my missions are now "shoot down enemy aircraft". FFS.

[Sayt]

That mission is a gorram bane. I only bare it because the Yubari and Omaha have passable self-defense AA.

Also, I've noticed that Close in manual Torpedos drops from aircraft are back and as obnoxious as ever, especially when you're dealing with half the enemy fleet.

[Storm Bringer]

Haven't unlocked any ships with decent AA, and all three of my missions are now "shoot down enemy aircraft". FFS.

I feel your pain, just had the same thing for about a week. thankfully, I had a particularly dumb CV driver yesterday who parked a fighter sqn right over my Wyomings head for spotting, so I racked up enough plane kills to clear two of the three missions (kill 4 planes in one match, and kill 10 planes in total).

unfortunately, I still have the "kill 8 planes in one match" mission, which is going to be a pig to complete at tier IV.

[Brother Oni]

unfortunately, I still have the "kill 8 planes in one match" mission, which is going to be a pig to complete at tier IV.

I tend to complete all my aircraft missions in my CV (the IJN tier 4 Hosho, can't afford the tier 5 one yet). With a bit of luck and an inattentive enemy CV, you can really rack up the air kills, unless they're a USN CV running an air superiority module at which point my poor IJN fighters just sit in the corner being ineffectual. :smallsigh:

[mangosta71]

Yeah, my three are "kill 4 planes in one mission", "kill 8 planes in one mission", and "kill 20 planes total". I prefer to drive IJN DDs, so in my entire career to this point I've killed one plane. I think the fastest route to plane kills is going to be rushing through the Wyoming (after I unlock it) to unlock the Langley.

[ShadowFighter15]

Normally; if I'm doing well on my team in a multiplayer game, I'll sometimes make a joking comment like "If I'm doing this well, something is going very wrong. :P " or along those lines. I don't mean it seriously and just assume a quick emoticon is enough to get that across.

I think this is the first time I've ever had to use that line seriously:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436074927438599664/37B709666CF32B5323E4602156426F1D4D849BC2/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436074927438599412/D807D304C5BDF37E99E1166B6D385AC1E91B202D/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436074927438599939/DA377C854923877094EEC7F3351F5FDC1958E842/

[GloatingSwine]

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436074927438599664/37B709666CF32B5323E4602156426F1D4D849BC2/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436074927438599412/D807D304C5BDF37E99E1166B6D385AC1E91B202D/
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/436074927438599939/DA377C854923877094EEC7F3351F5FDC1958E842/

Shoot more AP!

In cruisers you want to use AP against other cruisers*. That'll get you way way more damage from citadel penetrations and let you kill faster and carry harder. Still use your HE agaisnt battleships, destroyers, and carriers that aren't on fire yet. But against cruisers you will shred them with AP.



* Low tier JP cruisers want to wait until they're in about 7-9km range and getting flatter arcs because smaller guns.

[Brother Oni]

Seconding Gloating's suggestion.

Part of the cruiser class' advantages is rapid changing of ammunition (Furutaka excepted), so they can always fire the right sort of ammo for their target.

[Sayt]

Seconding Gloating's suggestion.

Part of the cruiser class' advantages is rapid changing of ammunition (Furutaka excepted), so they can always fire the right sort of ammo for their target.

I also reccomend the skill that cuts roload times by a third for swapping ammo types, it's really handy!

[Brother Oni]

I also reccomend the skill that cuts roload times by a third for swapping ammo types, it's really handy!

I don't think the game is paced fast enough to really warrant that on a cruiser (again, Furutaka aside), especially since you can set it so that it reloads with the other ammo type after you've fired your current load.

[Yana]

Agreed, especially since the 10% increase to AA efficiency is practically mandatory for both cruisers and battleships as their t1 captain skill.

Might as well try and give my opinion of the captain skills and how useful I think they are based on class

Tier 1:

Expert Loader (-30% reload time when switching from HE to AP or vice versa)- Not all that useful for the low to mid tier cruisers, any destroyers, or carriers (for obvious reasons). While battleships might benefit from this skill under some circumstances (having to shift from AP to HE in a hurry to deter a rushing destroyer), there are better options available for all of the classes.

Basic Firing Training (-10% reload time for guns of 155 mm or below, 10% to AA engagement efficiency)- This is the skill I would require for any and all cruisers. At the lower tiers it means your guns have a 10% greater rate of fire, at the higher tiers it means your AA guns hurt more (which is why you were a cruiser at this level, right?). While it has some uses for the battleships and even carriers that find themselves under frequent air attack, they both have skills that I consider more essential. As for destroyers, having your AA guns active means you're getting spotted from farther away once your AA opens up on planes. Keep your AA turned off unless you know that some jerk CV is keeping you lit.

Basics of Survivability (-15% recovery time from flooding, fire, or module damage)- The less time you spend on fire or drowning as a carrier or a battleship (and trust me, you're perpetually on fire as either if you've been spotted) is time well spent. Get this skill for either as your t1 skill and never look back. For the battleships as well, having your guns take less time to repair if they get damaged can also come in handy.

Situation Awareness (The Almighty Lightbulb from WoT returns and is so much easier to obtain, or you get an indication on your HUD if you've been spotted by the opposing team)- This is the critical skill for any destroyer that wants to last longer than 2 minutes in any match. Knowing when to cut and run after you've been spotted so as to come back at a different angle is much better than trying to guess if you've been noticed. I also think that carriers and perhaps even IJN cruisers get some benefit from this skill as they're typically harder to spot than other ships.

Expert Rear Gunner (10% more efficient tail gunners on your dive and torpedo bombers)- I'm unsure just how useful this skill actually is. If your bombers are being attacked by fighters of the same or higher tier, they're toast regardless.

I'll get around to the other skills eventually.

[GloatingSwine]

When considering what skills to take don't just think about getting one for each level, you can have multiple picks per level (you can have up to 19 skill points), and it's well worth taking a couple of first tier skills.

It's also worth noting that in many cases the tier 5 skills are going to be situational and there are no absolute must gets for every ship there.

(Also: Basic Firing Training is also good for US battleships from basically New York up, not so good for JP ones. US BBs have stronk anti air suites and can severely mangle enemy planes trying to attack them or targets near them).

(Also also: Situational Awareness is even better than Sixth Sense because the detection indicator stays for as long as you are detected. It's a must have, even for Big Obvious Battleships because it can give you an early warning that there's a sneaky git you can't see and you should watch for torpedoes).

[Yana]

While you may have a total of 19 points, you have to keep in mind that it takes ages to get enough points to get to the tier 5 skills. Once you get to the 4th tier, the amount of experience that it takes to gain another point becomes excessive.

[ShadowFighter15]

Shoot more AP!

In cruisers you want to use AP against other cruisers*. That'll get you way way more damage from citadel penetrations and let you kill faster and carry harder. Still use your HE agaisnt battleships, destroyers, and carriers that aren't on fire yet. But against cruisers you will shred them with AP.



* Low tier JP cruisers want to wait until they're in about 7-9km range and getting flatter arcs because smaller guns.

Seconding Gloating's suggestion.

Part of the cruiser class' advantages is rapid changing of ammunition (Furutaka excepted), so they can always fire the right sort of ammo for their target.


I also reccomend the skill that cuts roload times by a third for swapping ammo types, it's really handy!

To be honest; I kinda panicked at that point. I was using HE to take out that destroyer and lobbed a few shots at the Kongo. I think most of the HE I fired at the cruisers was an attempt to set them on fire and in the case of one of them, I didn't switch ammo because I was simultaneously trying to avoid an island, three or four ships shooting at me and trying to line up a torpedo run on one of them (naturally; they missed). I may pick up that skill, though. And it still doesn't excuse the rest of my team; if I played that badly and still came top of the team on XP earned...

[Beowulf DW]

I just realized that CV players who are fans of the Kriegsmarine are going to be in for some disappointment. All the German CVs that were ever built or planned were conversions, and most of them were cancelled, reconverted, or simply never saw action. How is Wargaming going to get around that? Unlike the Montana, or the Hakuryu there aren't even plans for CVs that could compare to the USN and IJN.

[qechua]

How is Wargaming going to get around that? Do a Navyfield and just make some up probably. :)

[Maelstrom]

There was the Graf Zeppelin and Flugzeugträger B (well, that never really got floated, soooo...) But yeah, nothing that compares...

[Yana]

They'll make it up like the Soviet Navy that we're getting next.

[mangosta71]

Man, wish I'd been recording that match or had not been too pumped to remember to take screenshots. Took my Isokaze out for a whirl and sank 6 enemy ships (2 DDs, 1 CL, and 3 BBs). The pair of DDs and one of the BBs were the first 3 ships of the match to go down (yes, I sank 3 enemy ships before anyone else got a single kill) and one of the other BBs was the last. I even sank one of the DDs with my guns, which is the first time I've ever killed anything with an IJN DD's guns (most matches I never even bother to fire them, since they just give away my position).

More than 250k credits and over 5k xp in a t4 ship (t5 match). So much blood in the water. What a way to end the night.

[Brother Oni]

It's also worth noting that in many cases the tier 5 skills are going to be situational and there are no absolute must gets for every ship there.

I disagree - pretty much every DD is going to want the reduced detection range, USN DDs in particular as if they can get their gun range greater than 4km plus their detection range then they're not spotted when they fire in this window, much like IJN DDs and their torps.


Man, wish I'd been recording that match or had not been too pumped to remember to take screenshots.

Although not properly supported yet, you can enable replays in WoWS like in WoT: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSaQKUT9_aI).

[Philistine]

I just realized that CV players who are fans of the Kriegsmarine are going to be in for some disappointment. All the German CVs that were ever built or planned were conversions, and most of them were cancelled, reconverted, or simply never saw action. How is Wargaming going to get around that? Unlike the Montana, or the Hakuryu there aren't even plans for CVs that could compare to the USN and IJN.

They'll have to invent more than just CVs to flesh out any Kriegsmarine lineup. It's not quite as scanty as the Soviet fleet list for the period, but the sad truth is that there's really no historical justification for prioritizing Germany and the USSR over France and Italy - never mind the British! - in a game called "World of Warships."

[Storm Bringer]

to be fair, the early tier german line up should be workable, as the High Sea Fleet designs would fill up nicely to about tier 5 or so (the Kongo is a t5, and shes a pre-ww1 design, based on the Lion class). After about t8 or so, they are going to have to use drawing room only designs to flesh out the line up, but they seem more than happy to do so in other games, so meh.

I'll admit that the CV line might be a bit sparse, but WG might just make the Graf zeppelin as a premium ship, and save themselves a lot of work making stuff up.



It's not quite as scanty as the Soviet fleet list for the period, but the sad truth is that there's really no historical justification for prioritizing Germany and the USSR over France and Italy - never mind the British! - in a game called "World of Warships."

well, politics is politics, and business is business, and giving the paying player base* what it wants is the priority. the fact is the Russian are in for "political" reasons (the large Russian player base) and the ww2 germans have a level of "coolness" that the ww2 brits don't, dispite the brits being the largest naval power not currently in the game (I won't argue they are bigger than the USN or the IJN, but they are definitely in the top 3)


* distinct form the total player base. in any free to play game like this, their is a balancing act between getting enough people to pay real money to make a profit, and driving away the free players that give enough bulk to the game to make it enjoyable.

[mangosta71]

I've determined that I hate cruisers. And USN DDs are basically just small, ****ty cruisers.

[Brother Oni]

I've determined that I hate cruisers. And USN DDs are basically just small, ****ty cruisers.

Pretty much, although they're great for screening away IJN DDs and scouting in general. Taking down a BB in a USN destroyer induces raging like nothing else though. :smallbiggrin:

[Abemad]

I had an awesome game in the american tier 4 destroyer, 5 kills, 2 double strike, 2 devastating strike and high caliber :smallsmile: felt great - and they say going down the middle in two brothers is stupid...

http://i62.tinypic.com/2zq4sux.jpg

But, I do prefer IJN destroyers

[Sayt]

0.4.1 release trailer released!

IJN Destroyers are getting their guns buffed, torpedoes and detection nerfed. USN DDs are getting an alternate, AA focused top hull which lets them Defensive Fire instead of Speed boost. Furutaka is also getting a Rudder Shift buff. Other stuff but gotta run for work!

[mangosta71]

The DD changes are disappointing. The whole reason I play IJN DDs is to nuke people with torpedoes.

On that note, some twit on my team was driving a Minekaze last night and hit my Phoenix with a spread of torps. When I called him on it, he called me a noob and the rest of my team took his side. Did I miss the meeting where the person who fires the things isn't responsible for making sure he doesn't blow a friendly out of the water any more?

[Sayt]

I think it was mostly the Minekaze and up which are getting nerfed, and to a certain extent they have more leeway than they need IMHO.

Other Stuff:

Video is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmbPIfwXSTg), rundown under the spoiler

Ranked Battles are coming, limited to tier 6-7, seven players Max Two BB and one Carrier per team.

Foilage is only on islands on Medium or better GFX.

New Dawn, Fault Line, and Hotspot are getting changed/overhauled.

Fighter's get an AoE "Skillshot", and they smoothed fighter damage over the tiers. The 'Rear Gunner" damage change will be a buff. Carries will be syummetrically distributed between teams by quantity and tier.

Matchmaking is getting a "Compensation" algorhythm: if you get bottom tier for a streak, you'll be autoplaced into a top tier game, not sure for how long.

Shortrange BB accuracy increase.

Hydroacoustic search lasts longer on all ships.

Omaha gets a firing range increase on top hull. (Thank Gods)

Furutaka also got a "More Rapid-firing and agile Primary armament, together with updated Torpedoes." I might have to go back and give it another play.

Wakatake, Minekaze, and Mutsuki get a turret rotation buff.

Samson and Wickes' get better ROF and turret turn.

USN DDs get longer lasting smoke screens, or longer smoke generation, not sure which.

Minekaze is actually getting it's 10km torps removed, from the sounds of it, and with a smaller arc, but it's only 300m more visible, and I think the 7km torpedoes are faster, anyway. Mutsuki got the same detection nerf.

T6-8 are performing too well, so air groups got restructured and they 'reload' slower.

IJN apparently get a national bonus to setting fire with HE, which has been reduced relative to calibre.

Mogami's turrets are now more fragile, and Myoko and Wyoming got a ROF nerf.

Audio is getting nebulous changes.

The way driving into the edge works has been changed, it seems like you drift sidfeways at your forward speed?

[GloatingSwine]

The DD changes are disappointing. The whole reason I play IJN DDs is to nuke people with torpedoes.

On that note, some twit on my team was driving a Minekaze last night and hit my Phoenix with a spread of torps. When I called him on it, he called me a noob and the rest of my team took his side. Did I miss the meeting where the person who fires the things isn't responsible for making sure he doesn't blow a friendly out of the water any more?

If you were in a Phoenix and you were closer to an enemy than a destroyer, you are Phoenixing wrong. Phoenix should be hovering close to its maximum range and using its many many guns to lay down effective shelling, set things on fire, and penetrate the citadels of other cruisers with plunging fire from largely total safety because only battleships can match your range and they will be easy to avoid at that range.

The only time you should be close to enemies is in the late stages of the game when you're mopping up.

[Beowulf DW]

Pretty much, although they're great for screening away IJN DDs and scouting in general. Taking down a BB in a USN destroyer induces raging like nothing else though. :smallbiggrin:

Admiral Kurita sympathizes, I'm sure. :P

[mangosta71]

If you were in a Phoenix and you were closer to an enemy than a destroyer, you are Phoenixing wrong. Phoenix should be hovering close to its maximum range and using its many many guns to lay down effective shelling, set things on fire, and penetrate the citadels of other cruisers with plunging fire from largely total safety because only battleships can match your range and they will be easy to avoid at that range.

The only time you should be close to enemies is in the late stages of the game when you're mopping up.
So, what you're saying is, if someone on my team isn't playing "properly", it's okay to teamkill. And if I hit a teammate with my torpedoes, it's his fault rather than mine because "he shouldn't have been there".

[GloatingSwine]

So, what you're saying is, if someone on my team isn't playing "properly", it's okay to teamkill. And if I hit a teammate with my torpedoes, it's his fault rather than mine because "he shouldn't have been there".

No, (teamkilling is reserved for arty in that other game ;)), what I'm saying is you should never have been in the position that allowed him to teamkill you by accident. The situation would not have arisen if you were playing the Phoenix to its strengths.

And I hate to get all stats here, I'm not even particularly good at boats (My overall winrate is only 2% better and at 50% it's not even really good), but I was good at the Phoenix and Omaha. I ended the Phoenix on a 68% winrate with 31000 damage per battle, whereas yours is sitting at 7400 damage per battle and a 30% winrate.

When I say "hang at long range and shoot for days" I know damn well that it works consistently and it works well, and whatever you're doing in the Phoenix, even when you aren't driving into friendly torps that should never have been near you, isn't.

If you're in front of a Destroyer in a Phoenix, you're doing it wrong, don't be there and he won't accidentally torpedo you and you'll be able to use the strengths of your ship properly.

[mangosta71]

Funny, since when I play my Clemson I get Phoenixes and Omahas racing around the map next to me and they typically end up being the among highest-scoring ships in the match. Maybe it's because I don't sink them and then laugh about it. But apparently that's playing wrong, and I should start torpedoing them so they can learn to hang back where they're supposed to.

[Yana]

I'm always at the tip of the spear whenever I play the Phoenix or the Omaha, that's where those ships excel. With the decreased shell velocity of the Cleveland's guns, these two are actually the best anti-dd ships in the game now due to their RoF and the speed at which their rounds travel in combination with the amount of guns they can bring to bear. They need to be on the front lines to accomplish this though.

[Brother Oni]

If you're in front of a Destroyer in a Phoenix, you're doing it wrong, don't be there and he won't accidentally torpedo you and you'll be able to use the strengths of your ship properly.


I'm always at the tip of the spear whenever I play the Phoenix or the Omaha, that's where those ships excel.

There's more than one correct way to drive a ship. Imagine that.

Personally I'm a very much a tip of the spear sort (although I find that I'm rapidly the back of the spear once all the shells start flying my way) to help support our DDs. That said, I do try and stay a couple km behind them though and get some use out of their low detection range letting them spot without me getting shot at needlessly.

The Cleveland is taking some getting used to after the Phoenix and the Omaha though - hopefully once I get it off stock, it'll start to shine.

[Brother Oni]

There's currently a 5 minute survey which nets you 250 gold/dubloons to the game of your choice: link (http://survey.wargaming.net/s/LivestreamSurvey/).

[Leon]

&*%^$ Allied DD who fire Torps off behind allied ships ~ more so when those torps are never going to reach what they think they are shooting at. managed to dodge these ones but it meant sailing around a island that put me in a BBs line of fire and that ended fairly soon after.

[Storm Bringer]

you what Id like to see in this game?

better information about your ships armor plan. or indeed, ANY information.

For example. A Omaha class cruiser (tier V) has thinner belt and deck armour than the St Louis class (tier 3). Trying to play the Phoenix and Omaha classes like they are bigger versions of the st lou is a non starter, but the game doesn't really make clear that you should be trying play her similar to a Treyu or Kuma,, not like a mini battleship as you do in a St Lou.

I know real world* penetration is affected by about a dozen variables, but if the game made clear what your armour plan was and where was armoured, it would be very useful. even a rough idea would be nice (ie "thick belt, but deck armour very thin", or "good citadel armour but lacking torp bulge"), just to let you know what you can take and what you can't.

*and in game, for that matter.

[Yana]

The odd thing is, this information was offered in closed beta. They removed it when .4.0 went live.

[mangosta71]

Yeah, I remember seeing it in the old Jingles videos, but then I couldn't figure out how he had gotten that display when the open beta started. Of course, that information could also be used offensively.

I had a fun game in my Minekaze last night on the Strait map. Took the north point then skirted along the north edge of the map and down the west side to find both enemy carriers in the little strait. Blew them both out of the water without taking any return damage. Unfortunately the rest of my team sucked so we lost on points.

I need to get better with TBs. Particularly leading my target and striking from the proper angle. Their automatic attack is worthless. The other major annoyance I have with my Langley right now is that my fighters, even though they're at worst equivalent to the fighters the enemy has since my ship is fully upgraded, still lose more than 75% of the time when I send them against enemy fighters unless I can sucker them into engaging above a friendly ship with decent AA. ****ing RNGs.

[Storm Bringer]

had a truly beautiful round in my Minekaze earlier today, as well.

map was new dawn (http://wiki.gcdn.co/images/thumb/4/41/New_Dawn.png/180px-New_Dawn.png), and I started at the south west (lower left) corner. mixed tier III/IV game. made a run down the south side of the map towards south east corner, supporting/supported by a Phoenix and a Wyoming.

we spotted a enemy Phoenix and Wyoming steaming south down the east map edge, obviously having the same idea as us. I broke north, to keep the eastern island chain between me and the them, while my allies engaged their counterparts. I was able to steam unspotted right up their inside. I got a angle on the Wyoming, though the islands, but he dodged my torps (this time....).

At this point, I realized that I was in open space, behind their main line (which had split into east and west halves, leaving a hole in the center) and closing in on their spawn groups (was in D8/E8). So, I made a run for the north east corner, hoping to catch their only carrier. was helped mightily by a returning plane group, which zoomed down to land on the as yet unseen carrier (a Langley) while I watched. He'd parked himself hard up against a island (the one around C8, just south east of the northern start point). I was able to round the island and pop out from around the island, and catch him totally blind, broadside on and stationary, at less than 2 Km.

boom.

following this, I turned away to the north west to escape the carriers rather angry planes (which dropped and missed), and dropped back into stealth, then came around to south west to make good my escape. An enemy Phoenix was charging back towards its spawn to try and avenge his teammate. he'd obviously seen my course when I was running north west and was trying to stop me form getting close to a pair of BBs in the north west corner. As he was charging straight and true, I put a volley of torps in his direction and then sprinted due south. back the way I came up. I managed to catch him with a single torp, which didn't kill him but really ruined his day. he turned to where I had launched from, and worked out I was making a run south, but i was 10Km+ behind me and didn't have the speed to catch up and spot me.

so, I run all the way back down towards the south east corner, where the two Wyomings are duking it out. this time my approach angle was in plain view of the BB, but he was scoped in and concentrating on the allied Wyoming, with no situational awareness or allies to screen him (both the cruisers had been sunk by this point). I was able to take my time and put a tight salvo into him, which sank the Wyoming, though the allied one was killed before my torps hit. the Phoenix hat had been chasing me now had a target, and opened up. I didn't have any cover to break behind, so I was reduced to a straight out charge, weaving between salvoes. the cruiser player must have panicked, because he popped his torps too early, and I was to steady up and flush mine at him. he took that time to kill me with his guns, but I got the last laugh as my torps hit home.


so, in conclusion, I got three ships, 8 torpedo hits form 4 different attacks, and killed the enemys only carrier and got away scot free. Our team won the match and I got 1400xp, with no x3 or premium bonuses. I think that a new record for me in this game.


lessons learnt for my future DD play:

trust you stealth. several times, I was running though open sea in plain view of enemy ships, but wasn't spotted until I was well within range. and, because it was open sea, people tended to think it was empty sea, which let me sail straight into their start zone and gank their carrier. I was then able to break contact, score a torp hit on a pursuer without being spotted, and make an escape. If I hadn't taken the opportunity to torp him, I would have got away to the south cleanly and he would have been none the wiser. but the chance was just a touch too temping to pass up....

don't be scared to be on the inside. its a very noticeable tendency in both WOWs and WOT for players to shun the center of maps, scared that they will be caught in a crossfire and pummeled form both sides. That's fair enough, but I found what this means is the fleet tends to split into an left flank and an right flank, and the center is often almost empty and poorly watched (since everyone knows that nobody goes their). This lead to a great big hole in their center, and two flanks that were isolated and unable to support each other. so, I was able to run up the center-left of the map, up a 'stupid" route, and I was able to score a potentially decisive blow by killing their carrier (ours survived the whole game, providing air support throughout).

don't panic, even if they see you. I was able get with 4 km of the Wyoming, and though he could see me on his radar, he had tunnel vision for his counterpart and didn't see me until my fish were in the water and about to kill him.

if your are going straight line while being shot at, your doing it wrong. at the end when the Phoenix was shooting me I was able to dodge about 80-90% of his fire rapid tacks and swinging my course form crossing his bow to behind him. I was helped by poor choices on his part (he was salvo firing rather than ripple, which made it a lot easier to dodge, plus, he stopped shooting to try and torp me, but I was nearly face-on to him, a small maneuverable target, and they missed by a literal mile), but still, I was able to close 7-8km, under fire from a broadside-on cruiser, and get a lethal torp salvo off.

[GloatingSwine]

don't be scared to be on the inside. its a very noticeable tendency in both WOWs and WOT for players to shun the center of maps, scared that they will be caught in a crossfire and pummeled form both sides. That's fair enough, but I found what this means is the fleet tends to split into an left flank and an right flank, and the center is often almost empty and poorly watched (since everyone knows that nobody goes their). This lead to a great big hole in their center, and two flanks that were isolated and unable to support each other. so, I was able to run up the center-left of the map, up a 'stupid" route, and I was able to score a potentially decisive blow by killing their carrier (ours survived the whole game, providing air support throughout).


Mostly people don't want to be in the middle because there's always some 'orrible wotsit in a destroyer lurking around there waiting for some nice juicy torpedo targets.


Generally, Battleships and Cruisers should avoid being in the outer two rings of squares, that's too far away and can't affect the battle well (not that you'd know that on the EU server which is full of linesurfing battleships being useless all game and then wondering why they have "no support" when the enemy comes for them), and at least until the late game avoid the very centre four squares because that's often exposed and prone to crossfires (and in range of otherwise useless linesurfers on the enemy team).

Basically, in the green box:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Uberbucket/92979da9-d20e-497c-ae81-43227afe0ab3_zps1lyfjirv.jpg

That means you're in position to control the centre without actually having to go into it and being blown up.

Destroyers can use their camo to range into the centre and spot enemies and get juicy torpedo hits (and to fastcap control points there).

[Storm Bringer]

like I said, a lot of players are scared of the center. they hug the edge of the map, and spend the game fighting other players hugging the edge of the map, outside the boxes you drew.

that said, this sort of thing is always map dependent. on that map you have used, someone has to go down the outside paths on the flanks, because the enemy will, and you want to stop DD players getting up to your CVs. However, plenty of people fight for the center path on the Soloman Islands map (which almost always turns the center channel into two walls of torps crossing each other and killing anyone stupid enough to hang around).

the other really annoying habit I've seen is the lemming destroyers who race of at 30+ knots, leaving the rest of the fleet behind, then bump into the enemy battlefleet, and get themselves slaughtered because they are the only target in range. and then they moan that we didn't support them!

[mangosta71]

When driving BBs, it's not just a matter of getting caught in a crossfire; it also takes a really long time to rotate the guns. You want to position yourself so that all of your targets are on the same side.

[Leon]

l
the other really annoying habit I've seen is the lemming destroyers who race of at 30+ knots, leaving the rest of the fleet behind, then bump into the enemy battlefleet, and get themselves slaughtered because they are the only target in range. and then they moan that we didn't support them!

Sounds in tune to most Light Tanks in WoT

[Brother Oni]

Sounds in tune to most Light Tanks in WoT

The main difference is the spotting mechanics between the games - DDs are practically cloaked if no other ship is within their detection distance and they don't fire their guns. Given the comparative ease that the WoWs Sixth Sense equivalent is available, rushing on ahead isn't such a bad idea.

Failing to pop their smoke and getting the hell out of there when their cover is blown is entirely their fault though.

Edit: Okay, post patch Furutaka is really nice ship once you've worked out how to drive her. 203mms and 10km torps at tier 5 really lets it put the hurt on things and while it's not as nimble as the Omaha, it's not as fragile either.

http://i.imgur.com/7iskgLC.png?1

Base XP was ~2300.

Given another 30 seconds, I would have nailed a fleeing Pensacola as well. :smallbiggrin:

[Yana]

Gotta love these games in my Omaha where I take on at least two or three ships at once, sink them all, turn around, get sunk dealing with another two, have a good 3-5 kills total.... and find out that the rest of my team is dying elsewhere to less than half the enemy team.

I know I'm decent at this game, but come *on*.

The latest match I played had me sink all four destroyers on the opposing team almost by myself after they sank a bunch of witless teammates. And these weren't Wickes or Clemsons which are impossible not to spot. No, I was fighting Isokaze and Minekaze (with the solitary Nicholas). I probably would be raging more if we had lost that match. Thankfully, I contented myself with a 2.4k base xp victory.

[Sayt]

Edit: Okay, post patch Furutaka is really nice ship once you've worked out how to drive her. 203mms and 10km torps at tier 5 really lets it put the hurt on things and while it's not as nimble as the Omaha, it's not as fragile either.


I played it before it had the torpedoes and the turret rotation buff, I might have to go back and play it a little.


Unlocked the Cleveland and Myoko!

Unfortunately I can't play two games in a row without getting DC'd :smallmad:

[Storm Bringer]

just been looking at me stats on the new Wows portal, which is gives a ship by ship breakdown on your stats. it threw up a few surprises.


most notably, My second best ship to date is the Kawachi, with 16 kills and 12 victories from 18 games. that's a real surprise, as I absolutely HATED that ship, as people whove read the earlier part of this thread will know.

Best ship is the St Lou (not really surprise. I love her so mush I still keep her), and 3rd is the Kuma (also not a surprise, as I enjoyed her as well).