Gestalt: (fighter/Wizard) or (Duskblade/wizard)?

[ShiningCrusader]

Hello everyone.
so I'll be possibly playing a gestalt D&D campaign in less then a month. the DM wants us to make builds that flavorful and have great character backgrounds. I've chosen to have a traveling sword fighter that also has arcane talents (AKA, a gish character). bout I've come to a road block, which martial class to choose? Fighter has better HP and more feats plus ACF for armor mage, but Duskblade gives more spells, the ability to channel spells through my sword and some abilities that aid casting. either way I'm going Abjurant Champion and possibility a 2 level dip in Arcane archer as well (AA is up in the air at the moment.) which one do you think i should i should choose?

note: do not mention ToB, Psionics or Incarnate or Dragon magazine stuff (banned at the moment becasue DM is more familer with Core+some-what-core supplement stuff)

[AmberVael]

I'd say Duskblade. While its spellcasting becomes a lot less enticing due to the far better spellcasting your wizard side offers, its others features synergize much more with your spellcasting since Channel, Quick Cast, and Spell Power apply equally as well to your wizard spells. There are some good fighter feats out there, but their appeal swiftly pales and frequently they don't offer choices that can be used simultaneously with spellcasting. (Maybe see if you can get this wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) if you really want some fighter feats?)

I think the nature of the Duskblade mechanics sell me on the idea as much as anything though. It seems to me a Duskblade//Wizard would simply feel and act a great deal more like a gish than a Fighter//Wizard due to the way its magical and combat capabilities can interact so directly. Its a lot easier to mesh the two using Duskblade, and I can't help but feel that would make it a lot more satisfying to play.

[Jack_Simth]

Wizard doesn't really play nice with armour dependant classes. Something more like a Factotum (Dungeonscape) or a Monk with the Carmendine Monk feat (Champions of Valor) would likely serve better mechanically.

Still, if you are going Duskblade and/or Fighter, do take a look at Arcane Archer at some point as well. Might be worthwhile for you.

[ShiningCrusader]

I think the nature of the Duskblade mechanics sell me on the idea as much as anything though. It seems to me a Duskblade//Wizard would simply feel and act a great deal more like a gish than a Fighter//Wizard due to the way its magical and combat capabilities can interact so directly. Its a lot easier to mesh the two using Duskblade, and I can't help but feel that would make it a lot more satisfying to play.

well I'm still worried that a Duskblade/wizard will be feat starved, but i could counter that with the Feat Wizard variant, but then that raises some questions 1) will i be greatly affected if i don't have those wizards metamagic feats? 2) could i just use my character feats that i gain every 3 levels for those metamagic feats?

[Urpriest]

well I'm still worried that a Duskblade/wizard will be feat starved, but i could counter that with the Feat Wizard variant, but then that raises some questions 1) will i be greatly affected if i don't have those wizards metamagic feats? 2) could i just use my character feats that i gain every 3 levels for those metamagic feats?

If you're mostly using Duskblade for things like Arcane Channeling, it's less essential that you go single-classed. You could put in a bit of Fighter or Ranger for feats before going Duskblade for channeling.

[Grod_The_Giant]

well I'm still worried that a Duskblade/wizard will be feat starved, but i could counter that with the Feat Wizard variant, but then that raises some questions 1) will i be greatly affected if i don't have those wizards metamagic feats? 2) could i just use my character feats that i gain every 3 levels for those metamagic feats?
1) Depends on your exact build, but most likely not. Blasting builds tend to be heavy on the metamagic, but a gish shouldn't need much (if any).
2) Sure. Mundane combat tends to be where the long feat chains are, in my experience. A lot of the best metamagic feats (Extend, Quicken, etc) don't have any pre-reqs at all.

[AmberVael]

well I'm still worried that a Duskblade/wizard will be feat starved, but i could counter that with the Feat Wizard variant, but then that raises some questions 1) will i be greatly affected if i don't have those wizards metamagic feats? 2) could i just use my character feats that i gain every 3 levels for those metamagic feats?

In my experience, most of the fighter feats you want you can take relatively early on, while metamagic feats tend to be better in the higher levels. Since you plan to move out of wizard into a prestige class anyway, there's no real loss from using the variant- any metamagic feats you wanted, you'd have probably picked up from regular bonus feats anyway.
As for being feat starved... there really just aren't a ton of great fighter feats. Yes you'll have less feats this way, but the feats you're losing won't be terribly important.

As Ur-Priest says though, dipping into another class for feats is entirely reasonable as well.

[Manly Man]

Another idea would be to do a Warblade//Wizard. Full BAB, good Fort and Will, Intelligence synergy (which will help you make your otherwise bad Reflex saves), maneuvers that can be incredibly helpful, especially boosts and counters, better skill points, a couple combat-oriented bonus feats... just put on a +1 mithral twilight chain shirt and you can forget about arcane spell failure, and you can even do the same with a mithral buckler as well if you want. The upside of the buckler, compared to the shield spell, is that the buckler can have other abilities attached to it. Something like a +5 ghost ward mithral buckler would really help with touch attacks if you don't have the wall of blades counter readied; make sure to have a weapon on hand for that, probably a two-handed reach weapon (glaive, anyone?), or somesuch.

[AmberVael]

Another idea would be to do a Warblade//Wizard. Full BAB, good Fort and Will, Intelligence synergy (which will help you make your otherwise bad Reflex saves), maneuvers that can be incredibly helpful, especially boosts and counters, better skill points, a couple combat-oriented bonus feats... just put on a +1 mithral twilight chain shirt and you can forget about arcane spell failure, and you can even do the same with a mithral buckler as well if you want. The upside of the buckler, compared to the shield spell, is that the buckler can have other abilities attached to it. Something like a +5 ghost ward mithral buckler would really help with touch attacks if you don't have the wall of blades counter readied; make sure to have a weapon on hand for that, probably a two-handed reach weapon (glaive, anyone?), or somesuch.
Warblade//Wizard IS cool. But also off topic.

note: do not mention ToB

[Bad Wolf]

Ah, Giantitp. Ask for a sorcerer, they'll give you a wizard.

I say Duskblade. More spells available.

[Rebel7284]

I say go Duskblade. Arcane Channeling is better than most feat chains for a gish.

The only metamagic a gish really needs is extend spell, unless effects that allow free metamagic application are on the table. In the latter case, Persistent Spell becomes amazing.

[Dread_Head]

Whatever you decide I would suggest at least three levels of Duskblade for the spell channeling. You might consider something like a few levels in fighter for the feats then go Duskblade to 13 for the full attack channel. Another class to consider is Swashbuckler for the Int to damage at third level which is very nice on an Int based gish. If you want to go further with that idea you could do a few levels of Rogue then go Swashbuckler and take the daring outlaw feat to stack sneak attack and BAB on one side and wizard + Prc's on the other.

Or some combination of the above, Dungeoncrasher Fighter 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Duskblade 3 or more would get you a strong start with the extra feats, then some good bonuses at early mid levels with int to damage and then spell channeling.

Edit: If you are going for Abjurant Champion then the Duskblade levels are even more worthwhile for the free combat casting feat. Saving a feat on that and going Fighter feat variant Wizard is probably a better option than Fighter//Wizard if you have to stay single classed.

[Emperor Tippy]

Monk 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum 11/ Something Else 3// Wizard 20

That is what I would do.

Of your listed options, Fighter is better if you are willing to Embrace/Shun your bonus feats into wizard useful feats. If you aren't willing to do that then Duskblade is probably a better choice.

[Mr Adventurer]

I feel like there should be a way to fit in Abjurant Champion, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, and Dragon Disciple on a Duskblade//Wizard...

[ShiningCrusader]

wow!! from 3 replies to 13 in one night! anyway, I'll probably try the Duskblade/feat Wizard build. i'll be missing out on a few free metamagic feats but i think that the other players can cover that. as it stands i most likely we'll have a (human Dragonfire adept or wizard/Artificer) a ( warforged dsukblade/dragon shaman) and (bard/< insert something that doesn't go with bard :smallsmile:) and i don't know about the last guy, but he usually plays martial or divine classes, who knows perhaps a (fighter/cleric). yeah all of us want at least some casting in are builds. the other half just covers the other roles (warrior/craftier/Musician/Etc.)

[Red Fel]

Others have covered the Fighter/Duskblade discussion, and I frankly think that Arcane Channeling and Combat Casting helps you just a bit more. That said, I'd strongly advise you to consider taking the Runesmith PrC. You need to have heavy armor proficiency, but as I recall, Duskblades are proficient in all armors, so that's easy. You also need Scribe Scroll, but Wizards get that for free; even if you traded it away for an ACF, it's an easy feat to take. And in addition to 5/5 casting progression (take it on your Wizard side, it has class features) it lets you cast spells in such a manner as to ignore somatic components.

Ignoring somatic components means you can cast spells in full heavy armor without ASF chance. That's major. You can also prepare spells in such a way that your allies can cast them, which is awesome, and can sacrifice one spell slot to give yourself a permanent 2/day SLA of a spell you know.