The Middle Finger of Venca's 13 new sub classes and my review

[CyberThread]

http://middlefingerofvecna.blogspot.com/2015/05/class-pack-1.html


Here they are, and I will do a break down and mini review.


Rage Mage: This one I think fills a fun nitch but I think may be overly complicated. It uses the Eldritch Knight spell table progression while focusing mostly on Evocation and Necromancy, ontop of that, you can only cast spells while in rage mode. This is a very unique flavor of the class for a barbarian, providing something very much meant to be a "war mage" of sorts. Damage all the time , with maybe some debuffs from Necro spells. The one unique factor is that your casting wizard spells with a wisdom modifer.

Review: It needs to be simplified I think, the system is easy enough, but crossing from things that don't need to be. Could have easily been cleric or druids spells instead of wizards.


Bard College:Masks

Review: This one will need to take more time to study, clearly a Master of Masks inspired path.


Cleric Domains: Luck

Fun class, basically just lets you reroll things if you run into a bad situation. Takes away what would be class abilties for a more "meta" game of rerolling scores infront of you. Not that bad of a domain, the 17th level ability feels a bit to strong. Gaining advantage on everything for one minute feels unduly powerful, and what happens if two folks have this state going on at the same time and fight each other?

Review: Well done for what the domain is.


Druid Circle : Beast

Fun alternative, allows a druid to become much more melee focused, and provides an avenue, for someone to be werewolf like, without getting messy in the werewolf template. This path is clearly weaker then the caster focused or wild shaped focused, but for someone who wants to retain the ability to melee fight yet still cast spells. This allows a nice middle of the road while providing unique roleplay fodder.

Review : Druid/10


Fighter Archtypes:

Kensai: I think this feels like a worse version of the champion archtype for fighters. More automated effects from swining a sword without the fun of maneuvers.


Monk :Drunken Fist

This feels like an okay choice , but way to weak. You gain advantage with items, and some seriously good defensive abilties but lack in the raw umph that other monk paths provide. Being able to give someone disadvantage when they attack you is great but stinks when that is sort of your only true trick.






I'll do the others later, seriously fun choices still coming up.

[Wartex1]

I'm pretty sure all of these were copy-pasted from here. Chronomancer is overpowered.

[CyberThread]

I'm pretty sure all of these were copy-pasted from here. Chronomancer is overpowered.




Proof? on that

[Wartex1]

I've seen most of these here before, and after reading the abilities, they're exactly the same.

I even remember someone pointing out the reasoning beyond the School of Chronomancy being overpowered because of Timewalker, allowing you to delay two rounds before a fight in order to have two free high-power spells launched before combat actually started.

[Rhaegar14]

I don't see why we have an Oath of Inquisition or Skin Patron thematically; they tread old ground. Rage Mage is nice but I'd make them cast off Charisma, and their level 14 feature is absolute garbage. I feel that Kensai takes too long to get to a feature with any actual meat; except for the rare enemy with resistance or immunity to nonmagical weapons, binding yourself to a signature weapon actually seems like a detriment in combat before 10th level (+1 on attack rolls is not worth never being able to use another weapon). Blue Mage seems entirely too dependent on your DM to be objectively balanced or imbalanced, and Ghost-Faced Killer is cool but daily uses of Ghost Step are too limited (EDIT: Nevermind, Dread Strike is ridiculous). I will probably have some thoughts on others as I read the rest.

[XmonkTad]

Proof? on that

From this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412901-Chronomancer-%28PEACH%29)

[CyberThread]

If anyone's interested, I've uploaded a PDF formatted like the Player's Handbook of the final version onto my newly started blog! (http://middlefingerofvecna.blogspot.com/2015/05/master-of-masks.html) I tried hard to make it look like it could fit right in the pages of the Handbook, so any comments on the formatting are welcome!

QUOTE=XmonkTad;19305428]From this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412901-Chronomancer-%28PEACH%29)[/QUOTE]



You mean this lol? Good job detectives lol

[SharkForce]

the bard college of masks has some pretty broken aspects to it.

you cannot just give someone the ability to increase the save DC of a spell by 1d12 without breaking the game. even a +1d4 is dangerous, because it can push people off of the d20 on their bad saves (which is why the save DC boosting items are broken OP, even though they "only" give a small DC boost).

+1d12 can push people off the d20 on their best saves, and can make checks downright physically impossible. consider, for example, the humble web spell; take a typical DC 19 at high levels, and add 12. DC 31 dex save to resist it (so a rogue with 20 dex will need a 20 to avoid being caught), and a DC 31 strength check to escape (since it is a check, 20 is not an automatic success, and you need a strength of 32, which is impossible, to break free. however, a bard or champion with a strength of "only" 26 could also enjoy a whopping 1 in 20 chance). you either have fire, or you're stuck for the duration (and if that doesn't sound like such a bad thing because web isn't that crippling - it "only" applies the restrained status - just remember that this can be applied to any save DC from a spell, and has a good chance of making a creature's spell resistance meaningless because advantage on a save is not enough. phantasmal force, dominate monster, planar binding, etc).

even once per day (twice per day if you take both masks that give this ability) is too much for something with so much potential to make CC spells essentially unescapable. you simply cannot grant an ability to modify saving throws without leading us straight back to the problem of save-or-suck spells as they were in 3rd edition, when casters could get their DCs so high that it took a miracle to make the save.


You mean this lol? Good job detectives lol

you should probably take a look at the author of the thread you linked. and then look at the poster who said "hey, i've made stuff on my blog, go take a look". and then look at what the blog is called.

just because it was posted here, doesn't mean it was *stolen* from here.

[CyberThread]

My response was made to be mocking :). The first 'RE: was making it sound stolen

[silveralen]

Seems to have some issues across the board balance wise. I'll focus on the ones that look mostly fine.

Rage mage: why necromancy? For a witch doctor feel? Not sure that'll actually work well in practice. The limit on no spells with concentration also removes so of the major benefits of having spells as a warrior, even if rage damage applied to every target under you fireball you'd lag behind true casters. Not to mention the fact you can't choose any non evocation/necromancy spells as written, probably an oversite considering AT/EK both have it. Also no idea why you can't reckless attack with your spell.

Beast druid: interesting, overall the closest to being fully playable. I'd like to see alternate uses full wildshape (such as burning it to heal some damage in normal form) and I'm unsure if the class is too good at fighting (three 1d8+mod attacks is more than all casters but warlock can lay down) but it looks usable.

The rest either seem to need a lot of work or strike me as conceptually flawed. Kensai takes the cake for "abomination that has no buisness existing in 5e" for sure. Let's build a class based around what annoys people about champion then alter it so that it ignores some of the basic design principles of 5e.

[Inchoroi]

The only thing I'd allow is the Ghost Rogue Archetype, and the Skin Patron. I don't really understand the theme behind the latter, honestly. I just want to be able to play Venom; it needs a better name, though.

As usual, Kensai (like almost all the other Kensai archetypes/classes I've read on here) is broken from the get go.

[SharkForce]

skin pact is i think an attempt to update the acolyte of the skin PrC from 3.x D&D. not super familiar with it though, so i'm not sure if it's a good representation.

[Wolfsraine]

The only thing I'd allow is the Ghost Rogue Archetype, and the Skin Patron. I don't really understand the theme behind the latter, honestly. I just want to be able to play Venom; it needs a better name, though.

As usual, Kensai (like almost all the other Kensai archetypes/classes I've read on here) is broken from the get go.

Are you saying the kensai is broken, as in too strong? If so, I just don't see it. It seems awful and boring.

[silveralen]

Are you saying the kensai is broken, as in too strong? If so, I just don't see it. It seems awful and boring.

It's a +4 attack bonus. That's broken as can be this edition.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

It's a +4 attack bonus. That's broken as can be this edition.It's still a really boring subclass, which I suppose is the worst of both worlds.

[SharkForce]

It's still a really boring subclass, which I suppose is the worst of both worlds.

nobody ever said it was exciting. just strong.

[Grand Warchief]

Probably a dumb question, but is this from wizards of the coast or fan made stuff? I can't seem to find an original source anywhere and would love to get copy of it if it's legit.

[Wartex1]

This is homebrew. Most of it was ripped straight from this forum as well.

[Grand Warchief]

Damn. I really liked the bard's mask stuff

[CyberThread]

This is homebrew. Most of it was ripped straight from this forum as well.

By the folks who created it