D&D 5e/Next Ninja_Prawn's Fey PC Races Project [Archive]

Flashy

2015-05-26, 09:49 AM

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-26, 10:21 AM

I quite like the Dryads as a whole, but I'm uncomfortable with the Plane of Origin traits. They turn Banishment into something of a save or die spell, since Banishment is permanent when cast on a native of another plane and concentrated on for a minute. It leaves the rest of the party with a minute to disrupt the concentration, and it's a pretty specific situation, but with Plane Shift at 7th level and even Contact other Plane at 5th if it happened it would remove the player from the game on a semi-permanent basis. I also think Speak with Beasts and Plants is a bit too powerful combined with a racial casting progression AND solid subrace features. Aversion to Metal and Fey Creature are pretty bad, but I'm not sure they're bad enough to cancel out two cantrips, a first and second level spell, and an always on version of a combined first and third level spell. Perhaps Speak with Beasts and Plants could be an optional racial feat?

And here I was thinking Speak with Beasts and Plants was a highly situational ribbon... I have no problem cutting it completely if it's that unbalanced. It probably doesn't need to be a feat, as anyone who wants those abilities is likely to get them via their class anyway.

I'll wait for more feedback on the 'save or banish' thing, because that was intentional. A minute to disrupt concentration seems like it wouldn't be a problem - if you can't take down the caster in ten rounds, they can probably TPK you anyway. And really, a Feywild creature in the Material Plane should be on their toes. I imagine it being kind of like being an earthling on the moon.

Duergar seems fine, but I personally would make Enlarge recharge on a long rest. As written it strikes me a just a bit too powerful at first or second level.

Maybe. It was modeled on the Eladrin's Fey Step, which is short rest (and a pretty good second-level spell too). Also, the Duergar has Sunlight Sensitivity.

Pixies are way too limited as an option for martial characters. Why even provide a weapon table when you'd need most of a point buy to not have an active penalty in strength and dex, and you have a permanent 10' movement speed wearing armor? If you take the hideous martial stat penalties off, let them wear light armor, and give them a lesser stat increase it'll be more in the realms of the reasonable.

Two things: a) Pixies aren't meant to be good martial characters. They are pixies, after all. b) You may have misread the Dex mod. That's a +4. I originally had it at +6, because that's closer to the MM stat block, but decided that was stupidly overpowered. A pixie with a rapier or hand crossbow and Mage Armour can do some serious damage, at least until it gets grappled. But that's realistic, non?

Flashy

2015-05-26, 10:53 AM

And here I was thinking Speak with Beasts and Plants was a highly situational ribbon... I have no problem cutting it completely if it's that unbalanced. It probably doesn't need to be a feat, as anyone who wants those abilities is likely to get them via their class anyway.

I'll wait for more feedback on the 'save or banish' thing, because that was intentional. A minute to disrupt concentration seems like it wouldn't be a problem - if you can't take down the caster in ten rounds, they can probably TPK you anyway. And really, a Feywild creature in the Material Plane should be on their toes. I imagine it being kind of like being an earthling on the moon

It might just be my games? I don't know, we use speak with animals/plants constantly. There are probably games where that would be way less useful. Fair enough on Banishment, I mostly just wanted to check that it was intentional. If you want to keep it by all means do.

Maybe. It was modeled on the Eladrin's Fey Step, which is short rest (and a pretty good second-level spell too). Also, the Duergar has Sunlight Sensitivity.
Yeah, it really was a minor quibble. It probably is fine, I just tend to point out anything I'm not sure completely about.[/QUOTE]

Two things: a) Pixies aren't meant to be good martial characters. They are pixies, after all. b) You may have misread the Dex mod. That's a +4. I originally had it at +6, because that's closer to the MM stat block, but decided that was stupidly overpowered. A pixie with a rapier or hand crossbow and Mage Armour can do some serious damage, at least until it gets grappled. But that's realistic, non?
I absolutely did misread that. My bad! It seems fine then.

Really, on the whole, these are quite good races.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-26, 11:22 AM

Idea: Fey-specific feat.

Adventurous
Prerequisite: Charisma 13 or higher.
You have grown used to the rigours of the adventuring life and feel at home around humaniods of every stripe. You gain the following benefits:

* You have advantage on any saving throw against a spell or effect that targets you because you are a Fey creature.
* Any spells you can cast innately now recharge on a short or long rest instead of once/day.

Edit:

You know, I think I will drop the speaking with animals and plants. The abilities are out there already, and it's not integral to the Dryad's fluff. They already speak Sylvan and have various bonuses to Nature checks. Plus, if I include the feat, their weaknesses can be optionally-mitigated rather than clumsily counter-balanced. Also, I think I'll let pixies fly in light and medium armour. If they're strong enough to lift the weight (which they won't be unless they put points into Str), they're strong enough to fly in it.

I'm in the mood for more Fey-themed homebrew now! Maybe I'll put together a whole campaign around it...

Flashy

2015-05-26, 03:06 PM

Idea: Fey-specific feat.

Adventurous
Prerequisite: Charisma 13 or higher.
You have grown used to the rigours of the adventuring life and feel at home around humaniods of every stripe. You gain the following benefits:

* You have advantage on any saving throw against a spell or effect that targets you because you are a Fey creature.
* Any spells you can cast innately now recharge on a short or long rest instead of once/day.
I like this feat enormously, and I'm glad you decided to drop the Speak with Beasts and Plants ability from the dryads. It stepped on the druid's toes just a little too much.

I'm in the mood for more Fey-themed homebrew now! Maybe I'll put together a whole campaign around it...
I actually have strong fey themes in my campaign world. The elves are essentially sidhe, and it's a lot of fun.

PotatoGolem

2015-05-26, 03:58 PM

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-26, 04:25 PM

Pixie is way too much. As you said, it's not intended for martials, but it's super unbalanced for CHA casters. Starting with a +4 dex and +3 cha is amazing. Plus you get always-on flight. Plus the best racial spellcasting of any currently-available race. I'm honestly having trouble thinking of why (optimization-wise, at least) someone would ever play a non-pixie sorcerer, warlock, or lore bard.

I agree that it's good for the Cha casters. It's a +2, not 3, but still. Would it help ban flight in armour (how I originally had it)? I also left an explicit hole for the DM to take the flight away (bad weather) - and they can always use flying monsters to even the score.

Reasons to play a non pixie: bigger hit dice, feat at level 1 (variant human), cast in medium armour (mountain dwarf), higher land speed (wood elf), not be vulnerable to Banishment / Divine Word, reduce vulnerability to grapplers... speak Common without having to get it from a background? Yeah, there aren't many reasons, but there are some.

Edit: I will admit that I tend to assume a low-optimisation game, or that players will make suboptimal choices for comedy/drama value. Or that these races might be used in a 'fey creatures only' campaign.

PotatoGolem

2015-05-26, 06:23 PM

Sorry, I meant a +3 and +4 modifier. Using the standard point buy, a race can only get up to a +3 right now. A pixie could start at 19 Dex and 17 Cha, which is really good. Armor doesn't really matter as a limit- sorcerers can't wear it, and warlocks can just use an invocation to not need it. As for the weather thing, that feels iffy. As a DM, I'd be really uncomfortable deciding every fight whether a PC gets to use his super powerful ability. Plus, the pixie could just be up on the trees/roofs/whatever any time you don't specifically say there's wind, keeping them away from combat.

As for the other reasons, they seem a bit sparse. The hit die, grappling bonus, and armor are nice, but the pixie is much better at never being hit. There's nothing wrong with low-op games (and I generally prefer them as well), but you can't really ignore obvious race/class combos, especially since this race is affirmatively bad at other party roles.

It would be cool in a fey-only campain though.

Steampunkette

2015-05-26, 06:38 PM

I'm a bit concerned about the pixie's limited movement options.

Aaracokra, released by WotC, move with a 50 fly and a 25 land. But both are increased simultaneously by anything that would increase movement.

To have the Pixie stuck at 30ft movement for flight, permanently, seems to undermine class features and magic items pretty hard.

eleazzaar

2015-05-26, 09:53 PM

I like the Pixie weapon chart.

I'm a bit concerned about the pixie's limited movement options.

Aaracokra, released by WotC, move with a 50 fly and a 25 land. But both are increased simultaneously by anything that would increase movement.

But a lot of people (though there is no consensus) consider the Aaracokra overpowered, and even the EE suppliment cautions against their use. I'm not sure it should be the gold standard for flying PC races.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-26, 10:56 PM

But a lot of people (though there is no consensus) consider the Aaracokra overpowered, and even the EE suppliment cautions against their use. I'm not sure it should be the gold standard for flying PC races.

That was my logic... And it's not like a pixie couldn't take 18 levels of Storm Sorcerer*, or learn the Fly spell, or whatever. So they're not totally stuck, they just have to work a bit if they want speed. The other factor, as PotatoGolem says, is that I've given pixies some excellent stat boosts, so limited speeds are kind of necessary to rein them in.

And an Aarakocra's wings are like ten times bigger than a pixie's. It's not unreasonable to think they would be faster.

*Though I might add a thing about abilities that give you wings setting your fly speed to 60, because you've already got wings and otherwise the Vengeance Paladin and Draconic Sorcerer abilities become totally useless.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-27, 01:21 AM

Sorry, I meant a +3 and +4 modifier. Using the standard point buy, a race can only get up to a +3 right now. A pixie could start at 19 Dex and 17 Cha...

Ah, gotcha. So, if I dropped it to -3 Str, +3 DEX, +1 Cha, would that be less of a magnet for munchkins? You could still get a +4 with the standard array, but if you did, you wouldn't have any +3s. Point buy is a different story, but that's a double-edged sword anyway.

I guess it still captures the essence of the race. The MM pixie is more extreme, but it doesn't have any direct-damage abilities, so it can afford to have crazy stats.

Steampunkette

2015-05-27, 05:11 AM

Wing size has very little to do with how fast a flying animal goes and more to do with whether or not an animal can fly at all.

Based on the size and mass of the thing in question, more or less air needs to be displaced in order to provide lift. For a human being to fly with feathered wings, we'd need a wingspan of around 20 feet, more than 3 times our average body length, simply because of the density and mass of the human form.

A bumblebee, on the other hand, can fly with a wingspan roughly equivalent to it's body length due to it's low relative mass.

As for speeds, Hummingbirds can fly 50mph while a California Condor (The largest North American flying bird bearing the largest wingspan at a whopping 10ft!) can max out right around 55mph. Hummingbird Wingspan? 4 inches.

All that set out: I understand your reasoning.

Though I wasn't trying to suggest a speed increase for Pixies, only that the speed-buffs still be allowed to apply. So a level 20 monk could fly at 60ft, but so could a level 20 Vengeance Pally or Dragon Sorc. I think 30ft movement is completely reasonable for them, with the 10ft land speed as well.

As for flight being overpowered... it really depends on encounter design. If you know you've got a flyer, have enemies that can handle it through ranged attacks, spells, etc. And design noncombat encounters (traps and the like) so they can't be flown out of all the time.

Though sometimes pit traps should be used so that pixie can shine with her little wings!

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-27, 06:14 AM

Wing size has very little to do with how fast a flying animal goes and more to do with whether or not an animal can fly at all.

Based on the size and mass of the thing in question, more or less air needs to be displaced in order to provide lift. For a human being to fly with feathered wings, we'd need a wingspan of around 20 feet, more than 3 times our average body length, simply because of the density and mass of the human form.

A bumblebee, on the other hand, can fly with a wingspan roughly equivalent to it's body length due to it's low relative mass.

Thanks for the science. I'm not completely ignorant of it, but for some reason I suspended my own scientific rigour in favour of gut feeling and rules balance...

As for speeds, Hummingbirds can fly 50mph while a California Condor (The largest North American flying bird bearing the largest wingspan at a whopping 10ft!) can max out right around 55mph. Hummingbird Wingspan? 4 inches.

I didn't realise hummingbirds were so fast!

I still feel Aarakocra should be faster than pixies though. Pixies are more like butterflies than birds, after all. And I've reworded the thing to say dragon wings etc. add current walking speed to flying speed, which would let them stack with unarmoured movement etc.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-27, 05:55 PM

Ok, more Fey homebrew...

This is my first pass at the Undine - not in the 5e Monster Manual, but I think they have enough in common with the Dryad for it not to be a problem. Any thoughts? Could be interesting a Waterborne-themed adventure.

I'll take a look at the Sprite and Half-Nymph tomorrow. Question, if anyone's still reading: what is darkvision worth, balance-wise? A second-level spell once/day? Half a warlock invocation? That seems like a lot. But then, not having darkvision can be a pain...

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-28, 03:18 PM

I'll take a look at the Sprite and Half-Nymph tomorrow.

And here they are. Sprite (with expanded tiny weapon list) and Half-Nymph, which is basically a remixed Half-Elf. How does the sprite balance against the pixie? Which would you rather play?

Next up: find a fey creature that gets a boost to STR or CON...

Fizban

2015-05-28, 06:43 PM

And here I was thinking Speak with Beasts and Plants was a highly situational ribbon...

It might just be my games? I don't know, we use speak with animals/plants constantly.
Just wanted to chime in here for a moment on this bit: I think WoTC is doing a serious disservice by going around calling things "ribbons" and saying they don't actually matter. Any clever person (read: any adventurer surviving more than 5 minutes) will leverage any ability they have as much as possible. Even if the adventure says there's no animals hanging around you can just bring a rat and turn a "ribbon" into a significant option. Similarly, the "ribbon" on the Storm Sorcerer about changing wind direction "if it's windy?" That negates any continuous wind based attack or hazard, and can be used intentionally to alter your own Gust of Wind or Control Winds spells. It bugs me that they don't seem to understand how a mechanical ability has mechanical worth (you noticed as soon as it was pointed out so I'm not blaming you :smallwink:)

Also weighing in on flight for PC races: I was just reading the rules for their organized official play, which surprise surprise, bans Aaracockra. So in addition to UA content with a blatant jump in power level (mistake or stealth fix?), they don't seem to treat RAW as RAW.

While I'm here I suppose I should take a loot at the actual races (though I had to enable several scripts to get it to display, I find it a bit odd that so many people are linking instead of just posting their content. A lot of people won't even look if they have to follow a link somewhere else).

Dryad: Aversion to Metal is weird, "you may not gain any benefit from metal armor or shields," that just drives my simulationist nuts. You can wear the armor but somehow weapons just pass through it? How about just incapacitating or restraining if you try to wear metal armor, and remember that being non-proficient with a shield means you've got disadvantage on all your attacks/str+dex checks/can't cast spells. Treebound has an odd dice expression (obviously you want a stable range), but is only a problem in games where players dictate the pace. The rest all seems fine. It's the only way I'd ever take the Druidcraft spell (if you want to call something a "ribbon," it's got to be as weak as that spell in my book).

Pixie: I see no reason to disallow shields when they're still restricted to the same AC bounds as everyone else. "Windy conditions," as suggested above, is so vague as to mean nothing: at least use "strong wind" to match the only entry in the DMG, which lists no wind speed and can apparently ground an eldritch horror as easily as a pixie (grumble grumble). There's no need to note the level of Invisibility since in 5e spells don't vary in level between lists, unless you're granting the more powerful versions in which case you'd say "as if cast with a level X slot" or somesuch. Anyway, overall what I see here (at -3/+3/+1 stats as of writing), is an attempt to balance 1st level PC flight by making you pay for it with all of your equipment and weapon options, leaving only monk or spellcaster, and with reduced hit points. I don't want to pass judgement for or against, since 5e doesn't seem to want you to fly at all but then EE gives a 50' flying race and then they ban it immediately and whatever. Your pixie weapon table has errors: a dagger would only be a longsword for a pixie, and light hammers deal 1d4 in 5e. Use a shortsword for the greatsword and a dagger for the rapier. The simple weapons are all arbitrary since 5e shrunk most of them and you've got no room left to shrink further without d3's which are perfectly reasonable but apparently don't exist anymore.

Undine: seems fine, Naiads are kinda sad though. The other two have concrete combat abilities, but Purify 1/day isn't much of a draw when paranoid person will want to purify every meal, snack, or sip. Natural Antitoxin is kinda like having part of a dwarf's poison resistance that you can share if you expect to be poisoned I guess. For races, I think defensive abilities are better at-will or always on.

Edit: fell asleep before I hit the post button and new stuff went up. Maybe later.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-29, 02:13 AM

Thanks for the input, fizban.

You have a point with what you say about 'ribbons', but it is useful to have a name for abilities that don't have a direct impact on combat. WotC probably does undervalue these abilities.

I originally wanted Aversion to Metal to inflict the Restrained condition, but decided that was too much: it would allow abilities like minor alchemy and minor conjuration to instantly shut the Dryad down. But perhaps reworking it to make it more like lack of proficiency is clearer and more 'realistic'. My thinking with tiny shields is that they'd be too small to block a medium-sized attack, which is what everything has to be calibrated against. I could include a Tiny Shield that only works against tiny weapons, but then you've effectively got two ACs to keep track of...

On that point, I know the tiny weapons table is inconsistent. I bumped up the light hammer because it feels like a different weapon (more of a maul) in tiny hands. I guess a dagger is on the small side to be a greatsword, but personally, I consider anything up to 12" to be a dagger, and if sprites are 12" tall, well... Part of the problem is that I'm not really sure what a shortsword is. I guess it's like a gladius?

I see you favour the d3. That's actually not a bad shout. I'll have a look at the table when I get back in.

Name
Cost
Damage
Weight
Properties

Simple Melee Weapons

Tiny Greatclub (Club)
1sp
1d4 bludgeoning
2 lbs
Cumbersome*, two-handed

Tiny Spear (Bolt)
5cp
1d3 piercing
1/10 lb
Thrown (range 10/20), two-handed

Tiny Staff
5gp
1 bludgeoning
1/2 lb
Finesse

Tiny Unarmed Strike
-
0 bludgeoning
-
Becomes 1 with Tavern Brawler or Monk†

Simple Ranged Weapons

Tiny Shortbow
10gp
1 piercing
1/4 lb
Ammunition (range 40/160), two-handed

Martial Melee Weapons

Tiny Greataxe (Handaxe)
5gp
1d6 slashing
2 lbs
Cumbersome, two-handed

Tiny Greathammer (Light Hammer)
2gp
1d6 bludgeoning
2 lbs
Cumbersome, two-handed

Tiny Greatsword (Dagger or Shortsword)
2gp
1d4 slashing
1 lb
Two-handed

Tiny Longsword
10gp
1d3 slashing
1/2 lb
Versatile (1d4)

Tiny Rapier
20gp
1d3 piercing
1/4 lb
Finesse

Tiny Sabre
20gp
1d3 slashing
1/10 lb
Light

Tiny Seax (Monk Weapon)
10gp
1 piercing
1/10 lb
Finesse, Light

Martial Ranged Weapons

Tiny Crossbow (Hand Crossbow)
75gp
1d6 piercing
3 lbs
Ammunition (range 30/120), loading, two-handed

Tiny Longbow
25gp
1d4 piercing
1 lb
Ammunition (range 70/300), two-handed

Other Weapons

Tiny Improvised Weapon
-
1 ‡
-
Becomes 1d3 with Tavern Brawler

* You cannot use the Extra Attack feature while wielding a cumbersome weapon. Cumbersome weapons cannot count as Monk Weapons.
† A tiny monk’s unarmed strikes use a damage die 2 steps smaller than usual; d6 becomes d4, d4 becomes d3, d3 becomes 1, etc.
‡ Damage type varies.

More thoughts to follow...

My motivation with the pixie and sprite is to stay as close to the MM as possible, while retaining balance. And you know, I think you could make a decent Dex-based fighter, rogue or paladin with them, especially in the fey-only campaign I've got in the back of my mind. Of course they favour casters, but that's like half the available classes anyway (grumble).

I'll change the strong wind wording to line up with the DMG. I don't know why I left that so totally ambiguous. For what it's worth, I would consider a 'fresh breeze' on the Beaufort Scale as 'strong wind'. Obviously that will vary from DM to DM.

I specified the spell level to remove ambiguity. At higher levels, Invisibility can target multiple creatures, and that won't do as a racial ability. I feel better with it specified, because the Tiefling gets Hellish Rebuke II for some reason.

Agree that the Naiad is sad. I thought that as I was writing it. But I have an idea. Purify food is always-on and instead of antitoxin, they get once/day Blindness. This ties into the Greek legends about Naiad jealousy and balances better with the other subraces.

Steampunkette

2015-05-29, 02:24 AM

I like Sprite better than Pixie and eagerly await fairie.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-29, 02:35 AM

I like Sprite better than Pixie and eagerly await fairie.

Thanks! I reckon I'm getting into the swing of it now. Faerie, Sylph, Faerie Dragon?! Where will it end?

I guess the ultimate question is: would anyone ever want to play a Sea Hag??

By the way, what would you say distinguished a pixie from a faerie?

Fizban

2015-05-29, 08:24 AM

My thinking with tiny shields is that they'd be too small to block a medium-sized attack, which is what everything has to be calibrated against. I could include a Tiny Shield that only works against tiny weapons, but then you've effectively got two ACs to keep track of...
It's not the size of the incoming weapon that matters, it's the size of the body being defended. As long as the shield is big enough compared to the wielder and the armor is more solid than the flesh, either will be able to deflect or absorb blows. Or, cutting weapons still won't cut through metal, and blunt weapons don't work very well against low-mass creatures without something to squish them against. Mechanically, without proper two-handed damage dice and with TWF not scaling, they shouldn't be disallowed shields without even more dex to compensate (I'm rating the current +3 as fair with shields intact).

On that point, I know the tiny weapons table is inconsistent. I bumped up the light hammer because it feels like a different weapon (more of a maul) in tiny hands. I guess a dagger is on the small side to be a greatsword, but personally, I consider anything up to 12" to be a dagger, and if sprites are 12" tall, well... Part of the problem is that I'm not really sure what a shortsword is. I guess it's like a gladius?
I could look it up since this is the internet, but :smalltongue:. I think of longswords as 3-4' and shortswords as 1-2', with daggers as definitely less than 1', but you could be more right.

new weapon table
It feels nice and even now. I don't think the cumbersome quality is needed for mechanical balance, but I do see why you want it in for creatures that are only 1' tall. I'm satisfied.

My motivation with the pixie and sprite is to stay as close to the MM as possible, while retaining balance. And you know, I think you could make a decent Dex-based fighter, rogue or paladin with them, especially in the fey-only campaign I've got in the back of my mind. Of course they favour casters, but that's like half the available classes anyway (grumble).
It just occurred to me: you could (probably should) give them an increase on their maximum dex to compensate for drastically reduced weapon damage, that way they'll still have a chance after the big folk have capped dex. (Is your grumble at the proliference of spellcasting, or spellcasting still always being better?)

I'll change the strong wind wording to line up with the DMG. I don't know why I left that so totally ambiguous. For what it's worth, I would consider a 'fresh breeze' on the Beaufort Scale as 'strong wind'. Obviously that will vary from DM to DM.
I don't know the Beaufort Scale, but 3.x had a nice table with wind speeds in mph and their effects. A "severe" 31-50mph wind is enough to halt a walking or down a flying medium creature, 3.5 Gust of Wind was 50mph, and 5e Gust of Wind slows and can push back medium creatures. Pixies just get to benefit from 5e's lack of size effects for anything other than grappling and not be Blown Away in the slightest breeze.

I specified the spell level to remove ambiguity. At higher levels, Invisibility can target multiple creatures, and that won't do as a racial ability. I feel better with it specified, because the Tiefling gets Hellish Rebuke II for some reason.
Huh, so they do. I find assuming default minimum level quite natural so I guess that's why I mentioned it, there's nothing wrong with being more specific though so I shouldn't complain.

Agree that the Naiad is sad. I thought that as I was writing it. But I have an idea. Purify food is always-on and instead of antitoxin, they get once/day Blindness. This ties into the Greek legends about Naiad jealousy and balances better with the other subraces.
Useful in a fight (well as useful as blindness is any more when apparently all creatures can pinpoint a silent bowshot, have even odds of pinpointing your footsteps, and it doesn't stack with anything), matches the spell level on other subrace's ability. Doesn't require favorable terrain or specialty weapons. Sold.

Sprite seems better than Pixie in almost every way. Useable strength score, nearly as much dex, faster fly speed, invisibility at 1st instead of 5th, and two somewhat unique abilities in Potion Mastery and Heart Sight. They lose Dancing Lights (meh), Druidcraft (lol), Entangle 1/day (okay), Sleep 1/day (hax at 1st to lol after 5th), and Stealth proficiency (meh, one skill, easy to replace). The spells and specials might equal out, but the stats and fly speed are still better. Also: in before sprite/pixie warlock with sprite familiar.

Half-Nymph: int is the high stat? I'd leave it at cha +2, other +1/+1. Trade two skills and a language for charm and a bard cantrip, seems pretty standard if a little bland. I've never been that fond of charming, if I'm going there it's full Dominate or bust. Wait a second, that's beast or plant only and at-will? Huh. Well without a clause preventing multiple attempts you can just spam till it works, hostile or not, and refresh it every hour. Gonna depend mostly on DM/adventure there, it's narrow enough it shouldn't break the game but is definitely strong enough I'd consider it worthwhile.

Regarding darkvision: the only PHB races that don't get darkvision are Halfling, Human, and Dragonborn. I would assume this is because: Humans can't see in the dark, Halflings are small humans, and Dragonborn have OP breath weapons and energy resistance (sarcasm). How important darkvision is depends on how your DM handles hiding, and what the darkvision range even means. The "hiding" sidebar is for moving silently and never properly tells you what conditions allow you to hide. Another line elsewhere implies that light obscurement is not enough to hide, so you can only hide if you're already invisible. . . Darkvision, "can see in dim light within 60' of you as if it were bright light, and darkness as if it were dim light." That comma spacing reads to me as if you can see in darkness out to any range, which is what elves used to to with low-light vision (night sky=shadowy illumination+low-light vision= see forever).

I think most people assume that darkvision still stops cold at 60', in which case it's good but not crazy, otherwise dim light= light obscurement and you would see forever even in pitch black. Stopping at 60' means it's still possible to hide in darkness if you're far enough away (and sneak attacks no longer have a max range), but darkvision still makes it impossible to sneak past someone in the dark if that's something you expect to be possible. Anyway, you wanted to know what it's worth? I think the designers don't count it as worth anything, it seems to be assumed for anything that's not human. Humans have a weird +1 to everything and that's it, halflings are loaded with even more random abilities than they used to be with no way to pick an equivalence, and dragonborn get nothing but breath weapon and resistance (and standard stats). If you want to give a race darkvision, go ahead, or if you think a race is already powerful enough due to it's unique abilities, go ahead and leave it off. Light isn't worth taking as a cantrip but the Continual Flame spell still exists once you get tired of slinging torches around and area dispels do not exist so it's not even in danger of being randomly lost (and you can't buy magic items anyway so why not?)

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-29, 08:44 AM

It just occurred to me: you could (probably should) give them an increase on their maximum dex to compensate for drastically reduced weapon damage, that way they'll still have a chance after the big folk have capped dex. (Is your grumble at the proliference of spellcasting, or spellcasting still always being better?)

I was wondering if that would be a good idea or not. It's definitely an option. Where would you set the cap? I'm thinking 22 or 24.

Edit: the grumbling is because I grew up on 2e, when Bards were rogues, Sorcerers and Warlocks hadn't been invented yet, Rangers and Paladins didn't get spellcasting until levels 8 and 9 respectively and Wizards had d4 hit dice. And everything was right in the world. So, yeah, it's the proliference that annoys me. *sigh*

Sprite seems better than Pixie in almost every way. Useable strength score, nearly as much dex, faster fly speed, invisibility at 1st instead of 5th, and two somewhat unique abilities in Potion Mastery and Heart Sight. They lose Dancing Lights (meh), Druidcraft (lol), Entangle 1/day (okay), Sleep 1/day (hax at 1st to lol after 5th), and Stealth proficiency (meh, one skill, easy to replace). The spells and specials might equal out, but the stats and fly speed are still better. Also: in before sprite/pixie warlock with sprite familiar.

If I took the speed down to 30, would it be more balanced? They're 40 in the MM, but I don't mind standardising on 30.

Half-Nymph: int is the high stat? I'd leave it at cha +2, other +1/+1. Trade two skills and a language for charm and a bard cantrip, seems pretty standard if a little bland. I've never been that fond of charming, if I'm going there it's full Dominate or bust. Wait a second, that's beast or plant only and at-will? Huh. Well without a clause preventing multiple attempts you can just spam till it works, hostile or not, and refresh it every hour. Gonna depend mostly on DM/adventure there, it's narrow enough it shouldn't break the game but is definitely strong enough I'd consider it worthwhile.

I went for Int based on the premise that this race will only really occur in a fey-only campaign. In which case, there's no other way of getting +2 Int, while I've already got plenty of plusses to Cha. Good catch on the multiple tries at charming. I'll put in the standard "if you fail, the target is immune for 24 hours".

Regarding darkvision: ...Anyway, you wanted to know what it's worth? I think the designers don't count it as worth anything... If you want to give a race darkvision, go ahead, or if you think a race is already powerful enough due to it's unique abilities, go ahead and leave it off. )

Yeah, that's pretty much the approach I took. I think I'm going to end up with darkvision being less common among fey than it is among the PHB races.

Okay, next up is Oreads, because I need a STR/CON race. Then I'll look at Faeries, which will be shapechangers! DUN DUN DUN!

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-29, 02:41 PM

First attempt at Oread is here. Faerie will follow tomorrow. I kept it pretty simple, but is it underpowered? I kind of wanted to keep the word count low to maximise the size of that gorgeous picture. I wish I could draw like that.

And thank you for all your help. You guys are the best!

Steampunkette

2015-05-29, 04:12 PM

I just like the numbers and feel better on the Sprite. Not sure how to describe it.

Meanwhile the Fairy should go invisible at level 5. >.>

Fizban

2015-05-30, 01:38 AM

I was wondering if that would be a good idea or not. It's definitely an option. Where would you set the cap? I'm thinking 22 or 24.
Edit: the grumbling is because I grew up on 2e, when Bards were rogues, Sorcerers and Warlocks hadn't been invented yet, Rangers and Paladins didn't get spellcasting until levels 8 and 9 respectively and Wizards had d4 hit dice. And everything was right in the world. So, yeah, it's the proliference that annoys me. *sigh*
I was thinking 22 since they've only got a +3, if it was more then 24 would be good. As for 2e vs magic, well that's understandable. 5e seems pretty well balanced so magic isn't completely overpowering, but people are still gonna want it: you could just ban all the partial casters and rename the Bard to "Enchanter," but I'd expect a fey campaign to be rolling in magic (could by why you're doin this).

If I took the speed down to 30, would it be more balanced? They're 40 in the MM, but I don't mind standardising on 30.
I went for Int based on the premise that this race will only really occur in a fey-only campaign. In which case, there's no other way of getting +2 Int, while I've already got plenty of plusses to Cha. Good catch on the multiple tries at charming. I'll put in the standard "if you fail, the target is immune for 24 hours".
Dropping the fly speed would help but wouldn't change the 4 points of str difference: sprites here have the same strength bonus as any human while the MM has them at -8. The PHB likes +5'/-5' for racial speeds, str -1 and fly 35'? For the +int nymph, I guess that seems reasonable. Any chance that was based on a bookish nymph from a certain university? With the standard failure clause it's not strong enough for me to consider without a good reason, which means it's probably right. Might want to allow int for the save DC if they're meant to be the party's int spec, otherwise it's a stealth penalty on their main ability.

Yeah, that's pretty much the approach I took. I think I'm going to end up with darkvision being less common among fey than it is among the PHB races.
I don't really mind that, it's funny that a pile of "monster" races has less darkvision than the standard PHB group.

Okay, next up is Oreads, because I need a STR/CON race. Then I'll look at Faeries, which will be shapechangers! DUN DUN DUN!
Oreads: 30 cu. ft. seems like a pretty small amount compared to a whole mountain. Easy enough to chip a small boulder of a cliff, roll it down the mountainside and cripple the guy. It's not hard to harm a tree either, but a single tree in a forest is much harder to find. Being able to shift your senses to a standing point isn't very useful when you have to watch literally the entire inside and outside of the mountain.

Now that I think about it, all the bound races could use some rules for how they interact with Locate Object/Creature and Find the Path. Without the easy magic items of 3.5, it's nigh impossible for a non-spellcaster to return and defend their real body when threatened even if they're in range to see it happening (would they feel the damage when outside of extrasensory range?). Could a friendly caster use you as a focus for a Teleportation Circle or maybe Word of Recall to get the party there? I also notice that Oreads don't have the lich revival either.

The rest seems fine. Standard stat bonuses, free armor instead of dorf hit points (benefits dex build most but race is str focused), decent situational spells. Mold Earth and Earth Tremor are best for creating difficult terrain, which like blinding isn't nearly as good as it used to be, but can have it's place in a coordinated plan. Earthbind has the distinction of not allowing a new save every round, if you catch them high in the air they won't be moving laterally for a few turns so that's nice.

Oh, looked back and noticed Aqua Pura only mentions food now.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-30, 04:44 AM

I was thinking 22 since they've only got a +3, if it was more then 24 would be good. As for 2e vs magic, well that's understandable. 5e seems pretty well balanced so magic isn't completely overpowering, but people are still gonna want it: you could just ban all the partial casters and rename the Bard to "Enchanter," but I'd expect a fey campaign to be rolling in magic (could by why you're doin this).

Dropping the fly speed would help but wouldn't change the 4 points of str difference: sprites here have the same strength bonus as any human while the MM has them at -8. The PHB likes +5'/-5' for racial speeds, str -1 and fly 35'? For the +int nymph, I guess that seems reasonable. Any chance that was based on a bookish nymph from a certain university? With the standard failure clause it's not strong enough for me to consider without a good reason, which means it's probably right. Might want to allow int for the save DC if they're meant to be the party's int spec, otherwise it's a stealth penalty on their main ability.

Ok, the Dex cap for tiny creatures will be set to 22. I might put that in a separate section - like an introduction to Fey races for PCs. And again, the sprite's strength modification was always -1, only 2 points different from the pixie. Yeah, the Charm would be more attractive if it ran off Int. But the ability comes from an inherited, instinctive empathy - clearly Wis. I don't know. Maybe it'd work to allow either, like I did with the cantrip?

Oreads: 30 cu. ft. seems like a pretty small amount compared to a whole mountain. Easy enough to chip a small boulder of a cliff, roll it down the mountainside and cripple the guy. It's not hard to harm a tree either, but a single tree in a forest is much harder to find. Being able to shift your senses to a standing point isn't very useful when you have to watch literally the entire inside and outside of the mountain.

Now that I think about it, all the bound races could use some rules for how they interact with Locate Object/Creature and Find the Path. Without the easy magic items of 3.5, it's nigh impossible for a non-spellcaster to return and defend their real body when threatened even if they're in range to see it happening (would they feel the damage when outside of extrasensory range?). Could a friendly caster use you as a focus for a Teleportation Circle or maybe Word of Recall to get the party there? I also notice that Oreads don't have the lich revival either.

The rest seems fine. Standard stat bonuses, free armor instead of dorf hit points (benefits dex build most but race is str focused), decent situational spells. Mold Earth and Earth Tremor are best for creating difficult terrain, which like blinding isn't nearly as good as it used to be, but can have it's place in a coordinated plan. Earthbind has the distinction of not allowing a new save every round, if you catch them high in the air they won't be moving laterally for a few turns so that's nice.

Hmm... how many times can a level 20 wizard cast Move Earth in a day? 2, plus 1 from Arcane Recovery. And it affects 800 cuft? Ok, yeah, that needs to be higher. I don't know how much a medieval mining operation can expect to extract in a day, but if a dedicated archmage can move 2,400 cuft, I can calibrate against that. I think three Move Earths a day should be enough to cripple an Oread, so I'll set the limit at 2,000 cuft.

The lack of 'lich revival' is because of the mythology. According to my quick-and-dirty research, several Oreads were permanently killed without anything happening to their mountains. Echo died of a broken heart. One (that I can't seem to find now) died after stepping on a venomous snake. It also balances the fact that a mountain can't be killed in the way a tree or lake or well can.

You're right, the bound races need a way to get back and defend their homes. Word of Recall is 6th-level though. What if all the bound races could cast it on themselves only with a 1-hour ritual? Something for the intro document, I think.

It's a shame that free armour doesn't help Str classes, but what can I do? At least they'll not be completely unprotected if they sleep naked.

Oh, looked back and noticed Aqua Pura only mentions food now.

D'oh! I think I was half-asleep when I did that. It should apply to drink as well.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-30, 05:32 PM

Update, y'all!

Faerie has been added (just about managed to finish it today) - please check the link at the top of the thread or in my sig. I've also added an intro section that takes some of the burden off the individual race descriptions and explains a bit about nymphs.

Notes:

I decided Faerie would be an Int race, which means I've revised Half-Nymph to +2 Wis. I think that's better all around.
Faerie has flight and shapechange, so I came down hard on it with reduced ability score bonuses and an extra weakness. Is it balanced?
What do you think of the fluff? I mean, 'faerie' is kind of a catch-all term for any kind of fey, so it's pretty much a blank slate for me.
I wanted to make them small, but I figured they needed the 'tiny' penalties to balance all their powers. *shrug* Is there some other kind of fey I could have as a 'small' race? What was the brownie like in previous editions?

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-31, 08:30 AM

Final update, unless I get more feedback/suggestions.

Faerie Dragon and Zashiki-Warashi have been added. The whole document is in a 'finished' state, though I'd like to add more feats at some point and I'm willing to revisit balance issues if necessary.

Anyone who wants to make use of this in their own campaign, please go ahead!

Fralex

2015-05-31, 11:00 AM

Just wanted to say I love this, and am bookmarking it now. Hopefully one of these days I'll get to run that Feywild campaign I've been thinking about for years.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-05-31, 12:39 PM

Just wanted to say I love this, and am bookmarking it now. Hopefully one of these days I'll get to run that Feywild campaign I've been thinking about for years.

Thank you, I'm glad you like it! And I hope this finally gives you the impetus to run that campaign.

Everyone: I've done another update, adding a few feats and magical items. Criticism / suggestions are appreciated.

Fizban

2015-06-01, 08:16 AM

I could have sworn the Sprite was getting a +1 str, but I could have been seeing wrong. . . and now it seems to be full reversed. Says dex decreases by 2 and str increases by 1. Unless that's intentional?

Faeries: vulnerability to iron is indeed a serious drawback. With tiny size, no dex bonus, and shields still taking a penalty, they're all uphill if you want any sort of combat class (but with the same dex cap they have the same potential). Shapechanger is pretty boss with no use or duration limit, but is tempered by the fact that you can already fly and metal weapons will end it in a heartbeat. . . or will it? Actually, iron shuts off your activation but you lose the vulnerability while transformed (not that it matters since those forms are so low on hp). Faerie Gold is actually usable I feel, now that Detect Magic is not necessarily everywhere all the time as it would be with proper magic items. Overall I think the iron penalty makes them the worst scaling, since metal weapons never go away and the number of enemy attacks only increases, but CR 1/4 forms will run out of use once the rest of the party has easier access to their own scouting and spying magic and you're not dealing with townsfolk any more. Not getting an initial save means it's quite likely a Faerie could be chain-hit the whole fight at mid-high levels, but Faerie Fire and CR 1/4 shapeshift wouldn't stop that anyway.

Faerie Dragon: so Euphoria Breath only allows a new save to end it when the confusion roll says so 1/3 of the time? Interesting. It's certainly better than Color Spray, even with scaling (Color Spray is terrible now, I've been sad). All they really have going for them is the Euphoria Breath (still better than Dragonborn breath). Might want to note that dragons have opposable thumbs and can still use equipment. I feel like the bite attack should deal 1d3, just so there's a reason to use it rather than have a dragon wielding a weapon, but they'd still have no reason not to use a shield. I feel like a person wanting to play a dragon doesn't want to be using weapons and armor, so removing weapons/armor/shields and giving innate armor 13 with 1d3 bite would kinda work.

Zashiki-warashi: that is some serious blessing. Makes me even more annoyed they got rid of Leomund's Secure Shelter, which would be worth casting just to maintain this, and it also gives a reason for people to not consider Lucky. Would drive me nuts since the other players have to make good use of it rather than doing it myself. The spells might be a bit much since Bane is actually good now and most people love have Knock around, but a good adventure will always kick people out of the houses so you've probably got it spot on.

Feats: I'd like it if Adventurous was worded so it also worked on the Vulnerability to Iron trait. Fey Magic Master is a lot of spells but none of them are very strong (new Blink is wut, I don't even). Wilderness Spirit is pretty meh if you ask me, only 1/9 terrain options at "feat" cost is huge, and the handle animal check I expect most people would argue should be doable without the feat. Skills scale at 1/5 levels, or 2/5 levels if you're a Rogue or Lore Bard with expertise, and the only thing that stops it from becoming useless is that MM beasts cap out in CR pretty quick.

I still think shields should work as normal, if anything it's armor that should be worse (3.5 did have armor for tiny creatures at 1/2 bonus as you might be aware, but that was also when tiny creatures had a built in +2 AC from size). At shields=+1 and dex max=22, max AC remains the same as for medium creatures, but I don't think it's wrong to have a slightly higher max AC. The damage+hp penalties and trouble with found magic items later on ought to be enough. Or maybe I just don't value flying nearly as much since readied actions now give you your full attack and don't screw up your initiative, and there's plenty of at-will magic. Of course I'm also the first to point and laugh at every NPC statblock without a ranged weapon, which is lots. Keeping it at reasonable land speeds also helps, since you have to spend distance flying up and down and around.

I also still think it's weird that Nymphs and Half-Nymphs are primary wis when Nymphs are known for supernatural abilities that used cha, and Dryads are primary cha when they had spell-like abilities using wisdom (SLAs default to cha on basically every other monster in the game). Does the proper mythology disagree?

Magic items: Ofuda Talisman does not need a - in it (I don't think it needs a "talisman" either actually, isn't Ofuda a general term for any spirit warding charm?). Not sure if I agree it's rare tier since it's just a narrow fear spell without the frightened condition.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-01, 09:15 AM

I could have sworn the Sprite was getting a +1 str, but I could have been seeing wrong. . . and now it seems to be full reversed. Says dex decreases by 2 and str increases by 1. Unless that's intentional?

Nope, I goofed. I switched the order so that the bigger number came first, without swapping the verbs.

Faeries: vulnerability to iron is indeed a serious drawback. With tiny size, no dex bonus, and shields still taking a penalty, they're all uphill if you want any sort of combat class (but with the same dex cap they have the same potential). Shapechanger is pretty boss with no use or duration limit, but is tempered by the fact that you can already fly and metal weapons will end it in a heartbeat. . . or will it? Actually, iron shuts off your activation but you lose the vulnerability while transformed (not that it matters since those forms are so low on hp). Faerie Gold is actually usable I feel, now that Detect Magic is not necessarily everywhere all the time as it would be with proper magic items. Overall I think the iron penalty makes them the worst scaling, since metal weapons never go away and the number of enemy attacks only increases, but CR 1/4 forms will run out of use once the rest of the party has easier access to their own scouting and spying magic and you're not dealing with townsfolk any more. Not getting an initial save means it's quite likely a Faerie could be chain-hit the whole fight at mid-high levels, but Faerie Fire and CR 1/4 shapeshift wouldn't stop that anyway.

Ooh, interesting catch on vulnerability to iron not undoing the shapeshift. Now I'm torn on which way to write it... I'm leaning towards you stay in the new form but can't change back, but I'll listen to suggestions.

How would you phrase a save against iron? And maybe I'll make the shapeshifted forms have the faerie's HP, because they are pretty limited.

Faerie Dragon: so Euphoria Breath only allows a new save to end it when the confusion roll says so 1/3 of the time? Interesting. It's certainly better than Color Spray, even with scaling (Color Spray is terrible now, I've been sad). All they really have going for them is the Euphoria Breath (still better than Dragonborn breath). Might want to note that dragons have opposable thumbs and can still use equipment. I feel like the bite attack should deal 1d3, just so there's a reason to use it rather than have a dragon wielding a weapon, but they'd still have no reason not to use a shield. I feel like a person wanting to play a dragon doesn't want to be using weapons and armor, so removing weapons/armor/shields and giving innate armor 13 with 1d3 bite would kinda work.

Ok, no weapons, natural armour, improved bite. That can be arranged. Euphoria Breath is word-for-word from the MM, and I like it. It's different.

Zashiki-warashi: that is some serious blessing. Makes me even more annoyed they got rid of Leomund's Secure Shelter, which would be worth casting just to maintain this, and it also gives a reason for people to not consider Lucky. Would drive me nuts since the other players have to make good use of it rather than doing it myself. The spells might be a bit much since Bane is actually good now and most people love have Knock around, but a good adventure will always kick people out of the houses so you've probably got it spot on.

Spot on is good enough for me. I was intending to make people think twice about taking the lucky feat, and I think this is better than straight-up nerfing it.

Feats: I'd like it if Adventurous was worded so it also worked on the Vulnerability to Iron trait. Fey Magic Master is a lot of spells but none of them are very strong (new Blink is wut, I don't even). Wilderness Spirit is pretty meh if you ask me, only 1/9 terrain options at "feat" cost is huge, and the handle animal check I expect most people would argue should be doable without the feat. Skills scale at 1/5 levels, or 2/5 levels if you're a Rogue or Lore Bard with expertise, and the only thing that stops it from becoming useless is that MM beasts cap out in CR pretty quick.

Yes, Adventurous should help faeries. That's only fair.

I could expand Wilderness Spirit, but i didn't want to step on the ranger's toes too much. I'll see what I can do.

I still think shields should work as normal, if anything it's armor that should be worse (3.5 did have armor for tiny creatures at 1/2 bonus as you might be aware, but that was also when tiny creatures had a built in +2 AC from size). At shields=+1 and dex max=22, max AC remains the same as for medium creatures, but I don't think it's wrong to have a slightly higher max AC. The damage+hp penalties and trouble with found magic items later on ought to be enough. Or maybe I just don't value flying nearly as much since readied actions now give you your full attack and don't screw up your initiative, and there's plenty of at-will magic. Of course I'm also the first to point and laugh at every NPC statblock without a ranged weapon, which is lots. Keeping it at reasonable land speeds also helps, since you have to spend distance flying up and down and around.

Yeah, I gave you half a shield. It'll take someone else asking for it before I go any further.

I also still think it's weird that Nymphs and Half-Nymphs are primary wis when Nymphs are known for supernatural abilities that used cha, and Dryads are primary cha when they had spell-like abilities using wisdom (SLAs default to cha on basically every other monster in the game). Does the proper mythology disagree?

In a way, that's a relic of how i first calculated the stat boosts (the MM stat blocks) - Dryads have a lot of Cha in d&d. I could flip it. Maybe I should.

Magic items: Ofuda Talisman does not need a - in it (I don't think it needs a "talisman" either actually, isn't Ofuda a general term for any spirit warding charm?). Not sure if I agree it's rare tier since it's just a narrow fear spell without the frightened condition.

Fair enough. I think the hyphen makes it easier for anglophone readers to pronounce, but maybe I'm fighting a losing battle there. Keeping the word 'talisman' though, because that sounds more d&d-ish. And it's intended to be a wider version of the fear spell; maybe I missed that one. I'd rather power it up than drop the rarity.

Wait. Idea! All these fey have advantage against charms. We need an item that bypasses that! Suggestions?

Steampunkette

2015-06-01, 09:39 AM

Toss me in the "full ac from shields and armor" bandwagon. Heck, I wouldn't even penalize HP values or Class HD sizes... Weapon sizes, sure. Of course.

If I did anything to a tiny character's defenses it would be their recovery HD expenditures.

That way the group doesn't short rest more often than other groups, but might get less of them or rely more heavily on magical healing and Long rests.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-01, 09:53 AM

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-01, 02:47 PM

Ok, I've made the changes suggested (including swapping the Wis and Cha boosts on the Dryad, Half-Nymph and Water Nymph). Ofuda Talisman has increased range and there's no longer a 'save ends' clause. Faerie shapeshifting and Wilderness Spirit have been beefed-up a little.

New items introduced: Euphoria Gas, Nymph Cloak, Pixie Dust.

Fizban

2015-06-02, 09:54 AM

Yeah, I gave you half a shield. It'll take someone else asking for it before I go any further.

Toss me in the "full ac from shields and armor" bandwagon.

Ok, ok. Tiny shields are in.
Woo! High five Steampunkette!

Ooh, interesting catch on vulnerability to iron not undoing the shapeshift. Now I'm torn on which way to write it... I'm leaning towards you stay in the new form but can't change back, but I'll listen to suggestions.
How would you phrase a save against iron? And maybe I'll make the shapeshifted forms have the faerie's HP, because they are pretty limited.
Being stuck in animal form is waaaaay worse than being kicked out of it, I'd be terrified of using it anywhere near a weapon then. Using your hp instead of the animal form's hp also makes it far more dangerous. There's almost no combat benefit to staying in that form, so getting hit and being knocked out of it actually does you a favor if a fight has started. Each transformation is a tiny buffer of a few hit points (5-7 at most), and if they hit you with a metal weapon while in animal form and thus lacking your iron vulnerability, you'll pop out with no risk of being poisoned (from that hit) and be able to fight back with less damage to your real hit points. That works out really well: you go in, if you're spotted you run for it, and if they hit you then you can turn and fight and make a ruckus to call your friends. I'll concede that spamming Blood Hawk form is more endurance than anyone else has at 1st level, but from what I've seen of the published adventures that's a good thing because they have no respect for 1st level lack of endurance (and every turn you re-transform is a turn you're not fighting back).

The reason polymorphing works in 5e is that it's basically a summon replacing yourself, compared to 3.5 where you changed some but not all of your stats and you became both broken strong and incredibly vulnerable. It's fine to become a weaker creature now as long as your real hit points aren't in danger and you're not any less resistant to disabling spells, which is how Wild Shape sets it up (Polymorph does change mental stats but it's also way stronger). I would stick with that if you want any sort of shape available: replaces everything including hit points, except mental ability scores and skill+save proficiencies (where you use the higher of yours or the creature's). Dropping equipment is rather PC unfriendly now that I've noticed it, that's more of a "monster with alternate forms" rather than a "magical creature that turns into anything" drawback.

For wording Adventurous Fey I was thinking "and vulnerabilities," but just adding a Faerie line like you have now works too.

Ok, no weapons, natural armour, improved bite. That can be arranged. Euphoria Breath is word-for-word from the MM, and I like it. It's different.
Huh, that works. I was about to say "ha, now you'll need to up it to 14 to account for full shields," but Barbarian unarmored works out fine. It's not so great for Barbarians because they're not dex based, but it's fine for a melee Faerie Dragon. The way you set up the claws and bite also works perfectly, or would if the TWF rules didn't require both weapons to be light.

New Wilderness Spirit is a thing. I don't think you intended to confer immunity to all beasts, monstrosities, and plants. I would phrase it more simply as, "No wild beasts, monstrosities, or plants are ever hostile to you or your companions when in your chosen environs, unless attacked or magically compelled." This makes it fully arbitrary: across a considerable region of expected wilderness your party is now immune to wild X encounters, as well as any adventure bits that require you to engage with same. I find it similar to the so called background "features," which are often phrased as negating several mechanics because background. Still not something I'd take a feat for (heck, WotC would probably call it a "ribbon" and give it out for free), but it does a thing.

So the Euphoria Gas item is clearly different from Faerie Dragon breath. "No matter 'how' it tries," I think. Sees into the ethereal plane but not it's true "surroundings," creatures are not surroundings, I think the better phrase would be "sees only ethereal objects and creatures," and note that's usually empty.

Talisman with no method of early removal is now on par with very high level effects (I should really go look up what spells those were so I know what I'm comparing to).

Pixie Dust is kinda pointless. Material "components" are now actually focuses by default, only certain spells consume them so. Value depends entirely on what spell is cast, topping at 1,000-1,500 for spells that aren't True Resurrection. The evil convenience is worth something, but if it came up as a magic item I'd just be trying to sell it as True Res fodder. Might I suggest improving the spell in some way instead?

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-02, 10:25 AM

Hm. I thought it was obvious that a Faerie Dragon has more than one claw... I'll clarify that.

I knew the shapechange thing would be a nightmare, but I will have another crack at it. As an aside, I envisaged it as more of an out-of-combat deception thing, rather than a wildshape-style 'hulk out'. But I'll put it back to separate HP pools.

I would argue that creatures are included in 'surroundings', but I'll clarify the wording.

After a bit of thought, I've decided that I do prefer your simplification of Wilderness Spirit. I won't force you to take it. :P

I'm ok with pixie dust being limited in use, though perhaps it should be uncommon. It's really a tool for DMs to say: "ok, the cleric will cast Raise Dead for you, but she doesn't have a diamond on hand. There's a gem market in the next town over, or you could grab some pixie dust on the black market." I'm not sure how to make it work as a spell enhancer.

20:22 Update: all changes done. Nothing new has been added (except pictures), so hopefully this is the final draft.

Fizban

2015-06-06, 08:55 AM

The numbers are good and we know the intent of everything so it's mostly down to editing for RAW now, but I intended to go over this at least once more and harp anything I think hasn't been addressed. And some more thoughts.

From the top: under tiny size, I think a more full reminder about movement in 5e, grids, and tiny creature would be helpful, not just about grappling. It's possible to move through a hostile creature's space if you're two or more sizes apart, which means that small creatures block and are blocked by tiny fey, but medium creatures are not. A hostile creature's space counts as difficult terrain, but (unlike 3.5) it is impossible to share a space with another creature of any size. This means that when using a grid, a tiny creature controls a full 5' cube unless the supplement or DM rules otherwise, and even without a grid it is likely that in medium environments with neat dimensions the fey can center itself to effectively do the same.

Tiny weapon table needs price and weight for arrows. I also wouldn't mind a description for seaxs, since I have no idea what they are.

Dyrads, Aversion to Metal: I think the tool proficiency should be re-worded, not preventing the proficiency but removing it when the tool is made out of metal. There have always been forms of magically reinforced non-metals or naturally occurring ironwood/bronzewood/etc that could be used by a dryad, some quite cheaply. I suppose it could be assumed that lv1 characters only have access to the cheapest tools available and thus couldn't do that, or simply take that 5e doesn't have those materials, but really this line has always sounded a bit thin to me. Regarding Treebound, it occurs to me that "if the tree is harmed/you will suffer likewise" could be read as directly mirroring hp loss, huh. In that case you'd die way before they chopped down the tree so it'd be pretty lame, I don't think it'd be a common reading anyway.

Faeries: I find it hard to believe that it takes a Tiny creature 18 years to reach full maturity. Even among intelligent dnd races smaller grows faster, and the only official fey race I know of was full grown at 10 years (Killoren from Races of the Wild). Maybe give it the elf treatment, body matures in a year or two but their society doesn't let them loose until later? Wait, is it because baby switching is supposed to be a thing? 'Cause that doesn't work unless your 'shape ages and grows to medium size.

The more things you list for shapechanging the less clear it becomes: anything not on the list feels like it's left out for a reason. Invoking the name of Polymorph (with a "P" or italics or what have you) should be enough, followed by the exceptions "except you retain your mental ability scores and your equipment does not merge with your new form." As currently written with "p"olymorph as an undefined term, you don't gain what makes a beast a beast (senses, movement, claws, etc). If you want to retain class features and proficiencies physically useable in the new form, it would be easier to reference Wild Shape. If you want to avoid referencing Polymorph or Wild Shape you'll need to use the standard "statistics replaced" line in order to include senses and movement modes and really the whole thing will get quite long. Personally I think the best version would be to just say "as Wild Shape, but at-will and limited to CR 1/4 beasts you've seen," though that would allow you to shift back as a bonus action.
You may assume the form of any small or tiny beast you have seen before, or that of a human baby. Changing into a beast is otherwise similar to a 2nd level Druid's Wild Shape ability, except that you may not choose to merge your equipment with your new form, you are not barred from flying and swimming forms, and resuming your normal form takes an action. Changing into a baby leaves your statistics mostly untouched, except that you can no longer speak intelligibly (or form verbal components for spells) and without wings you cannot fly. You may change forms whenever you wish, and remain in a given form until you change again or are forced out.
There aren't any tiny beasts above CR 1/8 that I've noticed, but the wild shape reference contains the same CR 1/4 limit anyway. I've retained the slow transformation back and fixed the flying babies. Wild Shape retains proficiencies while adding those of the beast so cat forms are stealthy and your saves aren't completely tanked.*

Faerie Dragons: "matures quickly," bah pick a number and own it, it's not like anyone's gonna argue (see "Faeries" above :smallcool:). I'm not sure how in-depth you've read the other monster entries, but since there's no longer default attack rules every monster just has "multiattack," with plenty of "claws" entries that only make a single roll once per turn, hence why I figured it should be stated. It might sound better with something like, "and each of your four limbs has a set of Claws etc," or making the Note sentence specifically mention dual-wielding so it doesn't sound awkward. Like, "Note that you have four sets of claws, allowing you to dual-wield even if you're carrying something in both 'hands' by flying." That sounds like a special hint while making it obvious what's allowed. I still think Color Spray is pretty lame compared to that Euphoria Breath, but I don't have any replacements to suggest, just that for a 1 round maximum spell which only works on people with low hit points, I'd just give it to them full power (half level rounded up).

Half-Nymphs: hey, so remember when I went on and on about standard Nymphs? Well in focusing on mechanics, I never noticed that you'd redefined "Nymph" as all Dryads/Oreads/Undines. I might not have argued so hard if I'd noticed, but if they're based on Half-Elves then cha is still most appropriate. Tag should be Type.

Pixie/Sprite: odd that they get no age data while Faeries are so specific. I guess Faeries have it because they're supposed to have a society while Pixies and Sprites are barbarians? To humans it's more like P/S just appear naturally in some places because "fey," but from a fey perspective it's not a glamorous legend it's just people springing out of the wilderness that are always there, so . . . barbarians. That don't age.

Water Nymphs: typo on the age line, "a water nymphs". Nereids might need something more on their chosen water source: since it's rather difficult to empty an ocean, they have little risk unless limited to smaller area like a section of coast. Or that could be a feature, take the less magical Nymph for more security.

Zashiki-Warashi: these are still ridiculously charming, in no small part due to your choice of picture. I generally hate mascot characters, kender, and as much as I like bards mechanically it makes no sense to play an instrument instead of fighting. If you're playing a magical fey spirit that literally lives to bless people and play around however, then it actually makes sense and is awesome.

*Or I could just write the stand-alone version you'd probably prefer, but I should be asleep right now so I'm out of time to go back.

eleazzaar

2015-06-06, 09:24 AM

Faeries: vulnerability to iron is indeed a serious drawback.

In DnD, Fay are traditionally vulnerable to COLD iron, a specific and uncommon form of iron. But it looks like that was dropped from 5e.

But I agree vulnerability vs Iron is pretty bad -- it is pretty close to "Vulnerability against physical weapons". 90% of the weapons you get hit with until high levels maybe when the exotic stuff starts showing up.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-06, 09:46 AM

EDIT: ALL CHANGES MADE. FURTHER SUGGESTIONS WELCOME, ESPECIALLY NEW ITEMS.

-snip-

Thanks for all the help! I'll neaten up my document at some point today. Every time I read it, I catch another typo... it's like there's some... tiny creature... in my computer... making mischief... Edit: I'm going to take your advice and reference Wild Shape. I don't like making people flip through two documents, but it is much clearer and there's less risk of loopholes. Well, except for all the debate about Wild Shape vs. PW:K... :smallannoyed:

I had noticed the improved "security" of Nereids, but I can't see a way past it, apart from the fact that they don't get as much magic. And I guess the water could still get polluted. I agree that I should make that clearer - how dryads and undines are effected by non-lethal attacks on their homes. EDIT: if I specify that nereids die when the salinity of their home drops below a certain amount, does that balance it out, or make them too vulnerable? I'm thinking there are Create Water spells and Alchemy Jugs that could quickly alter seawater's salinity, so it could be quite dangerous.

The age thing is just... ugh. A lot of these creatures seem to have no established lore in that regard, so I've had to fill in a load of gaps already. I'll see what I can do.

There is one CR1/4 small beast: the Giant Centipede. Donjon (http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/monsters/) has a nice little table of monsters that help with things like that.

I kind of wonder if tiny arrows should just be free and weightless... it would be silly trying to track fractions of ounces in a TT game, and I imagine that most of these fey could make their own arrows out of twigs, needles and whatever else they find.

Edit: added a non-finesse tail slap attack to the faerie dragon. Now they have a reason not to dump strength!

I love the zashiki-warashi too! I was looking for more fey creatures when it occurred to me to look outside the MM and celtic lore. I think yōkai are criminally under-represented in western media, so I did a little digging and found the zashiki-warashi, which seemed to chime perfectly with the 'fey' concept. Also, I needed a small creature, which they clearly are, and when I read about their fortune-bringing abilities, the 'Lucky' implementation popped straight into my head. It was a happy coincidence that they are good candidates for darkvision.

While I was researching this, I came across the Slavic domovoi, which is conceptually similar to the zashiki-warashi (and familiar to me because of the Shadow Hearts games). I stuck with the zashiki-warashi because it was cuter, although there's only like three good pictures of them on google. I could make it into 'House Spirit' with domovoi and zashiki-warashi being subraces, but that seems like a lot of work.

And, uh... I'm pretty sure it was the ancient Greeks who defined dryads, oreads and undines as 'nymphs'. I can't claim to have invented that.

In DnD, Fay are traditionally vulnerable to COLD iron, a specific and uncommon form of iron. But it looks like that was dropped from 5e.

But I agree vulnerability vs Iron is pretty bad -- it is pretty close to "Vulnerability against physical weapons". 90% of the weapons you get hit with until high levels maybe when the exotic stuff starts showing up.

Yeah, there's been no mention in cold iron in 5e, which I'm happy with because it doesn't really mean anything.

And, you know, the save DC is only 10. It's still a harsh penalty, but there's got to be some trade-off for having flight AND shapechanging. And it's not like it's a 'double damage' vulnerability. It just shuts down some of their abilities (which are mostly not combat-focused anyway) and gives them some disadvantage, which can be easily cancelled out or recovered from.

Fizban

2015-06-07, 05:54 PM

Well, except for all the debate about Wild Shape vs. PW:K... :smallannoyed:
Oh I don't think there's any debate there, the one weakness of Wild Shape is that it makes you extremely vulnerable to PWK. That's the kind of side effect I make sure to point out before it becomes a problem. A Faerie player would know full well that's a bad idea at high levels, or they could convince me to errata it.

EDIT: if I specify that nereids die when the salinity of their home drops below a certain amount, does that balance it out, or make them too vulnerable? I'm thinking there are Create Water spells and Alchemy Jugs that could quickly alter seawater's salinity, so it could be quite dangerous.
I think you are vastly underestimating how much water. IIRC there's 8 gallons in a cubic foot, and omgwtfbbq cubic feet in a stretch of ocean, which is constantly mixing with the rest of the ocean. Defining how large a stretch would be useful, but salinity not so much. Easier to say that if half the salt is removed or the area is flooded with an equal amount of fresh water, the Nereid dies. There were spells like Flashflood in 3.5 that might have done the job, but you'd need a gate to the plane of water in a fairly secluded grotto to do it now I think.

The age thing is just... ugh. A lot of these creatures seem to have no established lore in that regard, so I've had to fill in a load of gaps already. I'll see what I can do.
There is one CR1/4 small beast: the Giant Centipede. Donjon (http://donjon.bin.sh/5e/monsters/) has a nice little table of monsters that help with things like that.
I kind of wonder if tiny arrows should just be free and weightless... it would be silly trying to track fractions of ounces in a TT game, and I imagine that most of these fey could make their own arrows out of twigs, needles and whatever else they find.
I find your new ages acceptable. Faeries have enough info to go with their baby stuff, while P/S can either be assumed to use the same physical rate or spring up fully formed but needing to learn or just grow slow, not as important since they don't have the stuff. Faerie Dragons are fine. The Giant Centipede is far less threatening than the Flying Snake, but I guess they really do expect people to plan on dropping to 0hp if the centipede paralyze effect is actually worth a CR bump. For the arrows, I'd give maybe 1/2lb per 20, remembering that archers actually need to carry tons. Rather than twigs, I'd expect tiny arrows to be even harder to craft than normal since you've got even less mass for penetration and less surface area for stability, so they'd cost just as much as normal arrows. Or you could stick to the theme and use blowgun needles. Oh, maybe tiny dagger (sewing needle)?

Edit: added a non-finesse tail slap attack to the faerie dragon. Now they have a reason not to dump strength!
Eh, I don't mind but I wouldn't go anywhere near that far. The math for tiny martial characters requires them to go dex (the increased cap is to catch up their weapon damage), especially Faerie Dragons who only get AC from dex and con. If you added it just in case they need blunt damage then I'd say bravo, good thinking. My clever line for the claws has backfired, since a typ. of -while carrying *or* flying- makes it sound like one pair is on the wings. The focus was meant to be carrying *and* flying, as in your foreclaws are full but you attack with the hind claws while flying, but I was trying to be too clever, putting them in the same sentence doesn't work well. Here's another version because parenthesis: "Note that you have four sets of claws (front and back legs), allowing you to naturally dual-wield with ease," or "Note that you have a Claw on each on your front legs and back legs (allowing you to dual-wield if you choose), and can attack with any empty claw you're not standing on." Not sure if I'll ever be satisfied, trying to elegantly cram all those weapons in there is tough. Also needs an update to the number of natural attack options a few lines back.

While I was researching this, I came across the Slavic domovoi, which is conceptually similar to the zashiki-warashi (and familiar to me because of the Shadow Hearts games). I stuck with the zashiki-warashi because it was cuter, although there's only like three good pictures of them on google. I could make it into 'House Spirit' with domovoi and zashiki-warashi being subraces, but that seems like a lot of work.
And, uh... I'm pretty sure it was the ancient Greeks who defined dryads, oreads and undines as 'nymphs'. I can't claim to have invented that.
Ah, but I get the majority of my mythic knowledge starting from DnD 3.5. I would have had no interest in Domovoi which are represented in Frostburn with a picture of a tiny little hairy man (decent stats, just fire SLAs for messing with lowbies/mooks) I don't care for, and Nymphs are a single creature entry. Obviously I've got branches off from that but I usually just enjoy whatever new versions I find rather than looking them up.

it's not like it's a 'double damage' vulnerability. It just shuts down some of their abilities (which are mostly not combat-focused anyway) and gives them some disadvantage, which can be easily cancelled out or recovered from.
Hmm, actually that might be a good thing to rename just in case. Weakened by Iron, Shackled by Iron, Fey Weakness, Ferrous Allergy, or just Cold Iron.

Interesting marking effect of Faerie Dust, gives it McGuyvery uses outside of spellcasting and the easy hook of Faeries immediately recognizing you for vengeance. I can't think of any good magic item ideas right now, most fey items I've seen in the past are either petty or mad strong disguised as petty. Could do some thorn manacles that impede spellcasting without being ridiculous.

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-08, 04:14 AM

Hmm.. Thorny manacles. I can work with that.

Yeah, the idea for the pixie dust marking effect was mainly aimed at letting pixies know what you've been up to. I was going to write some garbage about all pixies sharing a psychic bond and instantly knowing when someone used the dust, but then I came to my senses. Also, you can now glitterbomb your antagonists!

I do like the completeness of the dragon having all the damage types. I think I'll make it into a mini table for clarity.

there's 8 gallons in a cubic foot, and omgwtfbbq cubic feet in a stretch of ocean

:smallbiggrin: Is it any better to say "every nereid is tied to exactly 2.6 Gigalitres of saltwater"? I mean one lagoon = one nereid, right? But lagoons vary in size. The same for harbours, coves, inlets, tidal estuaries, salt marshes... Perhaps it's better to let them be indestructible. I've taken a stab at some numbers anyway, just in case.

OK, DONE.

Fizban

2015-06-09, 04:24 AM

Well I just meant the gallons point for why create water/alchemy jug won't desalinate. Good to have numbers on how the dying happens if your house gets wrecked. In terms of sizes I was just thinking a suggestion on how long a stretch, don't know if it should be 100s of feet or fractions of mile. It'd be between one landmark and another of course, but you're likely only mapping the area because of the Nereid so that won't say how big. I guess it just feels to me like the other anchors are more specific and are clearly small or humungous, but the Neried could be either, but that's because I'm not thinking of smaller rock structures or how to size a marsh. As a player thing I assume it should have a clearly defined scope, but anything powerful enough to mess with a "local" area can mess with a huge area anyway, since magic scaling goes from "single target" to "hueg liek xbox."

Faerie Dragon weapons are looking good. The whole entry's a bit long now but that just makes it clear they're little monsters with reasons for playing them. Had intended the needle to be a 1 damage weapon, dagger should still deal more than unarmed strike in 5e. I was gonna originally leave the staff since even though it didn't make sense to me (high cost+weight for 1?) I'd expect a pixie with a stick to be finesse and low damage, but if there's a dagger/needle at 1 damage, the staff (stick) should match the spear at 1d3 damage/two handed. What was the original reasoning on the pixie staff?

Thorny Manacles are interesting, though not what I had intended (Thorn with no -y which impedes magic use). I don't think I've actually seen manacles of truth before, that's a good idea, especially with the new manacle breakage rules (no you can't just flex until they break, you can only roll if it makes things dramatic, and if you fail then you get to sit there and think about what you did. I didn't say they were perfect).

Ninja_Prawn

2015-06-09, 05:35 AM

Had intended the needle to be a 1 damage weapon, dagger should still deal more than unarmed strike in 5e. I was gonna originally leave the staff since even though it didn't make sense to me (high cost+weight for 1?) I'd expect a pixie with a stick to be finesse and low damage, but if there's a dagger/needle at 1 damage, the staff (stick) should match the spear at 1d3 damage/two handed. What was the original reasoning on the pixie staff?

I actually did an experiment on the needle. I got a 10" high stuffed toy and stuck a sewing needle into its hand. It was too small to be a dagger. Then I stuck a tapestry needle in there, which looked much better. Then I stabbed myself with it and measured the damage (which was 0, because Desmond has no Dex mod and tapestry needles are blunt).

Also, it's balanced against the staff, which isn't light and the seax, which is martial. Initially, I put the staff in because I wanted a simple finesse weapon that couldn't be bought in a big folk shop.

I imagine it as somewhere between a wand and a quarterstaff, decorated with flowers and bells and what-not. Like the faerie wizard's staff on page 3.

Thorny Manacles are interesting, though not what I had intended (Thorn with no -y which impedes magic use). I don't think I've actually seen manacles of truth before, that's a good idea, especially with the new manacle breakage rules (no you can't just flex until they break, you can only roll if it makes things dramatic, and if you fail then you get to sit there and think about what you did. I didn't say they were perfect).

I know... I spent about an hour trying to balance a magic-cancelling effect but I couldn't figure it out, so I started thinking about other things that are important to fey and landed on Zone of Truth. I'm happy with how it turned out.

If anyone has any ideas about how to approach an item that suppresses magic or introduces spell failure, I'd be happy to hear them. I also considered effects that make it harder to concentrate, that nullify potions or dispel buffs. Nothing really added up.