Condition Adjustment

[Philemonite]

This is a minor adjustment that aims to make each save important. For that purpose we have 6 conditions, each corresponding to a different ability:

Restrain-Strength
Poison-Constitution
Shock-Dexterity
Confusion-Intelligence
Charm-Wisdom
Compulsion-Charisma

Each condition can manifest in many different ways (and effect depend on what caused the condition), but each creature can be affected only by one version of each condition.

This is followed by another change that makes conditions more interesting. Conditions don't have a set duration. Instead, at the start of every round you get to make a save for every condition you are suffering from. And this is it. Any comments?

[ChubbyRain]

This is a minor adjustment that aims to make each save important. For that purpose we have 6 conditions, each corresponding to a different ability:

Restrain-Strength
Poison-Constitution
Shock-Dexterity
Confusion-Intelligence
Charm-Wisdom
Compulsion-Charisma

Each condition can manifest in many different ways (and effect depend on what caused the condition), but each creature can be affected only by one version of each condition.

This is followed by another change that makes conditions more interesting. Conditions don't have a set duration. Instead, at the start of every round you get to make a save for every condition you are suffering from. And this is it. Any comments?


I like it.

I'm already changing the damage types, as seen in my signature but I really like the idea of 1 condition for each ability score and then go off from it.

Instead of "poison" you should make a general body debilitation name that would cover the blind condition.

Debilitation?
Pain?

Not sure, but this way you can poison a creature or blind a creature and have one condition that reaches over both.

[Philemonite]

I couldn't really think of anything that would fit better, and poison was right there, so I used it. Debilitation could work. Shock is a bigger problem, but I can't think of anything better.

[ChubbyRain]

I couldn't really think of anything that would fit better, and poison was right there, so I used it. Debilitation could work. Shock is a bigger problem, but I can't think of anything better.

I don't think Dex needs one. Dex is for damage and reducing damage.

Restrain-Strength
Debilitated-Constitution
Damaged-Dexterity
-Intelligence
Confusion-Wisdom
Compulsion-Charisma

Debilitated is stuff like blind, deafness, stun, and death.

Confusion... Seeing through confusion could easily be seen as wisdom. The wise do not get confused.

Charm and Compulsion are sorta the same thing so put both of them on Charisma.

Intelligence is the problem I have with this. Anything intelligence can do can be placed under Wis or Cha. This is a lot like dexterity... Anything dexterity can do could be refluffed as strength or constitution.

I could see Dexterity and Intelligence saves be left out. Leave them to skills and checks I guess...

Tangent:
Of course you could just do a 13th age type system where you have physical and mental saves lumped together. Because dodging fireballs or seeing through illusions shouldn't be based on one score and should be a collaboration between different ability scores.

Physical Save: 1d20 + Prof/Half Prof + (Best Physical Ability Modifier) + (Worst Physical Ability Modifier)

Mental Save: 1d20 + Prof/Half Prof + (Best Mental Ability Modifier) + (Worst Mental Ability Modifier)

Then lump all the conditions into physical and mental.... Hmm I might try this actually.

[Philemonite]

The way I see it:

Confusion-Impacts your ability to logically solve a problem(Intelligence)
Charm-Impacts your common sense(Wisdom)
Compulsion-Impacts your sense of self(Charisma)

[ChubbyRain]

The way I see it:

Confusion-Impacts your ability to logically solve a problem(Intelligence)
Charm-Impacts your common sense(Wisdom)
Compulsion-Impacts your sense of self(Charisma)

Charm and Compulsion are still the same thing through that description.

Compulsions can make you do things against your common sense and charms can remove your sense of self.

By being charmed (charm person) you regard the caster as friendly even though

A: Common sense says you never met the person before, how do you know they are friendly?

B: You may typically be a mistrusting person or hav a specific allegiance. Your sense of self has been stripped away in place of this more trusting fool who may be backstabbing their allies or allegiance.

[Philemonite]

That's just semantics, as long as you have a condition for every ability it doesn't really mater how you name it.
And as far as Dexterity and Intelligence is concerned this was intended for my further homebrew, where every save has relatively equal value and Dexterity is not god of damage avoidance.

[ChubbyRain]

That's just semantics, as long as you have a condition for every ability it doesn't really mater how you name it.
And as far as Dexterity and Intelligence is concerned this was intended for my further homebrew, where every save has relatively equal value and Dexterity is not god of damage avoidance.

No, it isn't just semantics, the problem lies in the fact that wisdom and charisma is doing the same thing.

Your goal is to give each ability score a condition in which to defend against and you have given one type of condition to two ability scores.

Charm and Compulsion are both enchantments. One is just the weaker version of the other.

[Philemonite]

Wisdom condition impairs your reasoning and intuition.
Charisma condition impairs your willpower.
Those are two different things. Charm and Compulsion might sound similar, but they have different purpose. You can rename them whatever you want, they would still serve have different purpose.

[ChubbyRain]

Wisdom condition impairs your reasoning and intuition.
Charisma condition impairs your willpower.
Those are two different things. Charm and Compulsion might sound similar, but they have different purpose. You can rename them whatever you want, they would still serve have different purpose.

Again, you are saying the same thing just in different ways.

But mechanically within 5e there are no compulsion spells. They are all charm spells and some force you to act certian ways and others just give you the "charmed" condition.

Here is the 3e "Dominate Monster" spell. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominateMonster.htm

In that spell compulsion is a thing, which is linked and has specific rules and is different from the charm condition. However in 5e there is no rules for compulsion, here is the spell Dominate Monster (from the free pdf)

Dominate Monster
8th-level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You attempt to beguile a creature that you can see
within range. It must succeed on a Wisdom saving
throw or be charmed by you for the duration. If you or
creatures that are friendly to you are fighting it, it has
advantage on the saving throw.
While the creature is charmed, you have a telepathic
link with it as long as the two of you are on the same
plane of existence. You can use this telepathic link to
issue commands to the creature while you are conscious
(no action required), which it does its best to obey. You
can specify a simple and general course of action, such
as “Attack that creature,” “Run over there,” or “Fetch
that object.” If the creature completes the order and
doesn’t receive further direction from you, it defends
and preserves itself to the best of its ability.
You can use your action to take total and precise
control of the target. Until the end of your next turn, the
creature takes only the actions you choose, and doesn’t
do anything that you don’t allow it to do. During this
time, you can also cause the creature to use a reaction,
but this requires you to use your own reaction as well.
Each time the target takes damage, it makes a new
Wisdom saving throw against the spell. If the saving
throw succeeds, the spell ends.


and here is the spell "Charm Person" from the free pdf.


Charm Person
1st-level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 hour
You attempt to charm a humanoid you can see within
range. It must make a Wisdom saving throw, and does
so with advantage if you or your companions are fighting
it. If it fails the saving throw, it is charmed by you until
the spell ends or until you or your companions do
anything harmful to it. The charmed creature regards
you as a friendly acquaintance. When the spell ends, the
creature knows it was charmed by you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this

As you see, they really cleaned everything up and made Charm a single effect and spells give the "charmed" condition plus any other effects outside charm that the spell would need to be that specific spell. I like the word Compulsion better than Charmed so I would stick with the word Compulsion for the cool factor, but in the end it IS charm.

It isn't just semantics, its mechanics too. You are adding a keyword and a defense that already has a keyword and defense. So now we have a keyword within a keyword which gives us keywordception... Which is where 3e and 4e failed.

Edit

There is no reason to break up charm spells now that they have been put together nicely.

Perhaps

Strength/Constitution: Debilitation
Dexterity: Contact
Intelligence: Confusion
Wisdom/Charisma: Compulsion

Debilitation spells and effects are anything that physically changes your body or stops your body from doing what you normally would. Poisons, grapples, and restraining are all types of effects that are debilitating. Debilitation spells and effects typically will be riders from other effect or are auto hit abilities (but a save will negate the effect).

Contact spells and effects are anything that needs to physically touch you in order to effect you with damage. Lightning Bolt, Thrown Rock (giant), or Fireball are all types of effects that are on contact. These spells and effects typically don't have riders as they are all about damage.

Confusion spells and effects are like debilitation spells and effects, however these stop you mentally from doing what you normally would but the caster has no other control over you (unlike Compulsion spells, see below). Spells such as Sleep, Color Spray, Confusion, and Illusions are all classified as confusion spells.

Compulsion spells and effects that force you, mentally, to act in such a way that is not normal. The user of these spells and effects typically can further manipulate you with further action. Charm Person, Hold Person, and Dominate Monster are all spells that are classified as Compulsion.