(3.5)The Dwarfiest Dwarf that ever Dwarfed

[lonewulf]

Hello all. Me and my wife are going to be playing in a campaign spanning from level 1 to 20. My wife is fairly new to D&D but she has previously played up to level 9 in her first and only game. But in that campaign her character was mostly pre-built as a healer because a healer was desperately needed.

This time around the group is large-ish and we cover most bases with the classes. When asked what she wanted to be she said 'a Dwarf'. When asked what class she said 'i dunno...but i want to be a Dwarf because i love Dwarves'.

So...how would you make a Dwarf character that truly embraces and enhances what Dwarves do? 3 levels of Dwarf Paragon is a no-brainer but what else? Im in the dark here...im not a Dwarfy person myself...any thoughts?

[icefractal]

Deepwarden is a Dwarf-specific PrC that's also quite good for heavy-armor types, especially the first two levels.
Crusader is not Dwarf-specific, but it feels like something a Dwarf would take.
Cleric (of a Dwarven god) is pretty classic. And effective, because, well, it's a Cleric.
Ironsoul Forgemaster is a Dwarf-specific Incarnum class. But I haven't played it; don't know how well it functions.

Edit: AvatarVecna's post reminded me:
"Honey Badger" - Dwarf Totemist 4/Fighter 1/Fist of the Forest 1/Deepwarden 2
Con to AC twice, attacks by jumping with Landshark Claws. If Flaws are allowed, then you can replace Fighter with anything that has full BAB. If you don't mind waiting one more level before FotF, a level of Monk can free up two feats (and give Wis to AC, if that matters).
Not sure if it's the Dwarfiest Dwarf, but seemed pretty amusing.

[AvatarVecna]

A while back, I made a VoP Dwarf Fighter/Monk/Fist of the Forest/Dwarven Defender for the Iron Chef: Dwarven Defender round. If you optimized it enough to meet the feat prereqs, you could make a VoP Dwarf Fighter/Ranger/Monk/Deepwarden/Fist of the Forest/Tattooed Monk/Drunken Master with high saves across the board, Wis mod and double Con mod to AC, and a specialty in fighting with improvised weapons (which should bypass the VoP limitations) while drunk off his butt (very dwarfy). The only un-dwarfy part of this build is the Vow of Poverty, because who's ever heard of a Dwarf that wasn't obsessed with loot?

[EisenKreutzer]

What kind of dwarves does she love, and what does she love about them?

[BilltheCynic]

The way I see it, there are two main types of 'dwarfy' dwarves: brawlers and crafters. A brawler is going to be a frontline fighter taking advantage of the CON boost and the constant move speed in heavy armor to brawl away on the frontlines. A crafter will take advantage of the racial craft bonus and the constant move speed in medium armor to craft nifty weapons and items for battle.

For a crafter, the obvious choice is artificer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2829.0)(taking dwarf paragon would probably be a bad idea). She would be able to craft and disassemble custom magic items and weapons.

For a Brawler, I think a Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176968-Masters-of-the-Sword-A-Warblade-s-Handbook-Under-Construction)or Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?181655-Spirit-of-Steel-The-Crusader-s-Handbook-WIP)would probably be best. This would be much more friendly to multiclassing dwarf paragon, since non-martial adept classes still count for 1/2 of your initiator level.

[lonewulf]

What kind of dwarves does she love, and what does she love about them?

Gimli from Lord of the Rings is her favorite kind of Dwarf. He's one of her favorite fantasy characters period. So frontline melee is preferred fighting style. She's read through the Dwarf section of the PHB and she says she likes everything about the D&D Dwarves. Thats why I want to make a Dwarf that exceptional at being a Dwarf.

She is new so im trying to keep it relatively simple for her.

[Shining Wrath]

I think the quintessential dwarf, without a lot of complexity, would be a Crusader. No one hurts your friends, not if you have anything to say about it - and as it turns out, you do have a fair amount to say about it.

[Chronos]

Ironsoul Forgemaster is actually pretty good, and you get to be crafty and brawly. The only drawback is that (assuming Incarnate entry) you can't be Lawful Good, which is the dwarfiest alignment.

[Jakabib]

Well, these are mainly flavor suggestions, but the two most Dwarfy Prc's I can think of are Dwarven Defender (core) and Deepstone Sentinel (ToB). Neither of which is usually considered a powerhouse, but both are the tanky type that stand in the middle of the fight and essentially say "come at me, bro!" so I think they may be up your alley.

If you/your wife have/has access to it, I highly suggest reading through the dwarf section of Races of Stone for more Dwarf flavor goodness.

[atemu1234]

Deepwarden is a Dwarf-specific PrC that's also quite good for heavy-armor types, especially the first two levels.
Crusader is not Dwarf-specific, but it feels like something a Dwarf would take.
Cleric (of a Dwarven god) is pretty classic. And effective, because, well, it's a Cleric.
Ironsoul Forgemaster is a Dwarf-specific Incarnum class. But I haven't played it; don't know how well it functions.

Edit: AvatarVecna's post reminded me:
"Honey Badger" - Dwarf Totemist 4/Fighter 1/Fist of the Forest 1/Deepwarden 2
Con to AC twice, attacks by jumping with Landshark Claws. If Flaws are allowed, then you can replace Fighter with anything that has full BAB. If you don't mind waiting one more level before FotF, a level of Monk can free up two feats (and give Wis to AC, if that matters).
Not sure if it's the Dwarfiest Dwarf, but seemed pretty amusing.

This amuses me. I like it.

[gorfnab]

Here's a Dwarf build that might work for a tank type.
Ranger 3/ Dwarf Paragon 3/ Crusader 2/ Deepwarden 2/ Deepstone Sentinel 5/ Crusader 5

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Google up 'Fistbeard Beardfist'. It's pretty dwarfy.

Crusader/Incarnate/Ironsoul Forgemaster is not only pretty dwarfy, it's a really durable 'tank' with a bonus of plenty of battlefield control. Toss in some Deepstone Sentinel if you really want more stone-based Dwarfiness.

Ironsoul Forgemaster lets you augment a shield so that it doesn't suck, instead it gives you a ton of Energy Resistance (plus there are feats to make a shield suck less, and some Crusader stuff uses shields too), which means you can pretty much ignore any sort of blastomancy short of Mailman and laugh at any dragon trying to use a breath weapon on you. Who needs evasion when you have Energy Resistance 30? Dodging is for pansy elves, Dwarves shrug it off with style!

Speaking of shrugging it off, get some Adamantine Full Plate with DR 3/-, then use Ironsoul Forgemaster to bump that up an extra +5 for a total of DR 8/-. Consider that a moment. Knock eight damage off of any and all physical damage incoming. Every hit. Granted, at later levels that's actually not as much as you'd prefer, but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing. Consider the spell Stoneskin grants DR 10/Adamantine, and costs 250gp per casting, and wears off after a short period of time.

Oh, and you get access to some pretty nifty binds, since ISFM gives you access to Least, Lesser, and Greater binds.

Then we can talk about Crusader. Even without Idiot Crusader cheese (which we really don't need to get into), Crusaders have an amazing maneuver recovery system and has a pretty darn good selection of maneuvers, even if the depth of selection leaves something to be desired. Thicket of Blades is a go-to stance for area-effect denial.

Deepstone Sentinel is a really nice PrC for your Crusader, because it adds in even more area-denial. First off, the Mountain Fortress stance forces balance checks. Which means that if the opponent doesn't have 5+ ranks in Balance (not likely), it becomes flat footed. It's like having a permanent Grease spell around you. Your rogue buddies will love you for enabling their sneak attacks. Oh, and let's not forget all the other problems that Difficult Terrain does for your opponents. Dragon's Tooth is amazing battlefield control, particularly if you are caving. Suddenly, stone pillar! Right in front of you! Blocking off cave entrances! It's like having Wall of Stone on a budget! Awaken the Stone Dragon is fun because it is a swift-action. Meaning it's pretty much 'oh yea, and save or take 12d6 damage and go prone... in addition to everything else'. Sure, save or lose maneuvers aren't as powerful because they are harder to stack DC's on, but unless they have evasion, they're still going to be taking at least some damage.

Dwarfy front-light tanky brawler, decked out in armor and a shield, which is very difficult to actually hurt and very good at keeping you from getting around him to the squishier ponsy folk behind you.

[Endarire]

Fistbear Bearfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9111595&postcount=107)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Fistbear Bearfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9111595&postcount=107)

No, Fistbeard Beardfist (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7814.0).

[Jergmo]

I feel like while the above posters have some excellent ideas, it seems to me like the player in question would be a little overwhelmed. "I don't know what class I want to play, I just want to be a bad-A dwarf" suggests to me we're talking about a newer player, right?

What kind of level of optimization are we talking about for the rest of the party as well? For a new player, a super-dwarfy dwarf could be a fighter specialized in a military pick, for all intents and purposes.

"We dwarves are very dangerous over short distances!" -Gimli

What about a dwarven boar barbarian, for example? Dipped with fighter for heavy armor proficiency and two bonus feats. It isn't too complicated, but it's respectable.

My first character was a generic elf wizard who*cast magic missile, charm person, shield, and grease. New players benefit more from starting small and working their way up; not having pre-built characters.

[Bullet06320]

how about a dwarvin druid, summoning dwarves, riding a dwarf?

[Thurbane]

Dwarf Paragon/Fighter/Dwarven Defender/Deepstone Sentinel?

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/312/0/d/111108_dwarf_warrior_by_pc_0-d4fhmif.jpg

[Mr Adventurer]

No matter what you do, give that dwarf max ranks in Tumble. They aren't slowed by armour so they can uniquely tumble while wearing heavy armour, and you want to capitalise on their unique qualities, right?

TUMBLOR, the dwarven Crusader with two levels of Rogue.

[Red Fel]

Seconding (thirding? fourthing?) Ironsoul Forgemaster. Here's something I wrote about it once:


Look at your Dwarf. Now look at Ironsoul Forgemaster. Now look back at your Dwarf. He's not an Ironsoul Forgemaster, but with a dip into Incarnate he could be.

Look at your shield. Now look at Ironsoul Forgemaster. Now look at your shield again. It now grants energy resistance. Look at your armor. It now grants DR/--. Look at your weapon. It now gets an insight bonus to damage, and dazes living opponents.

Look at your party. They're naked. Now look at your Ironsoul Forgemaster. Now he has Craft Magic Arms and Armor, as a caster of triple his Ironsoul Forgemaster level. Look back at your party. They're heavily armed and extremely violent. They love your Dwarf for assembling their weapons of mass destruction.

Ironsoul Forgemaster is on a horse.

Here's something else I wrote about it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344798-Soul-and-Steel-A-Guide-to-the-Ironsoul-Forgemaster-%28WIP-PEACH%29). It's a handbook, complete with some build stubs, on the class. Sure, you could go with Hammer of Moradin and smash things, or any number of other Dwarf-exclusive classes. But few capture the item-craftiness and face-smashiness of Dwarves quite like the IF.

As an aside, to those who are concerned that an Incarnate would have to be LN or NG, remember that IF only needs to be non-Evil. That's easy enough, and although LG is the Dwarfiest alignment, it's not required. I suppose you could go LG Soulborn, but... ugh. Am I right?

[MysticMonkey]

The way I see it, there are two main types of 'dwarfy' dwarves:

Who says this? Only two main types dwarves. . . geez. . .

I am with your wife here, love dwarves, not number one fan of elves (don't think I've ever even played one. . . too flighty).

I agree with most other people here if you want to play a "typical " stereotyped dwarf go with a crusader or a dwarven defender. But I say think outside the box a little:

Depending on what she wants to do, why not play a dwarf rogue who is a security expect. Assistant to the chief of security for the king he helps to make sure unwanted visitors can't get in.

Or a dwarven mystic druid who lives out in the underdark.

Dwarven Lore Master (Bard or Wizard)

Suicidal, honor reclaiming, barbarian (taken from Warhammer)

Dwarven ranger/miner, uses skills to find new mine and possible outpost sites.

I encourage her to step out of the norm for a dwarf, unless the norm is really what she likes.

[ShurikVch]

My suggestions:
Battlesmith PrC - maybe not the best, but still very iconic
Drunken Master PrC - Dwarves are like their ale!
Elemental Archon/Elemental Savant (Earth) - all Dwarves are creatures of Earth, but some of them are "more earthly"
Half-Celestial Savage Progression class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) - use Dwarf Ancestor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3) as model celestial, and maybe you will be able to drop a bit of LA, because no SLAs and no fly speed

[LoyalPaladin]

Thats why I want to make a Dwarf that exceptional at being a Dwarf.
Are you saying you want to make a Dwarf that dwarfs all other Dwarfs?

Terrible Dwarf pun aside, I'm a huge fan of the Battlesmith prestige class for Dwarfs.

[BilltheCynic]

Who says this? Only two main types dwarves. . . geez. . .

Perhaps I worded this poorly. I meant that there were two main types of dwarf stereotypes. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame) Certainly there are more types of dwarves than that and it can be fun to play them, but as far as dwarven stereotypes go those are the main two I see. The OP said that his wife wanted to play a stereotypical dwarf, so I was giving options based on the two biggest dwarf stereotypes.

[Red Fel]

Perhaps I worded this poorly. I meant that there were two main types of dwarf stereotypes. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame) Certainly there are more types of dwarves than that and it can be fun to play them, but as far as dwarven stereotypes go those are the main two I see. The OP said that his wife wanted to play a stereotypical dwarf, so I was giving options based on the two biggest dwarf stereotypes.

Well, the stereotypical Dwarf is the Hill Dwarf (aka the bog-standard Dwarf), but there's so much more you can do with the race. Dwarves who craft, Dwarves who live in the arctic, Dwarves with fire for blood, demonic Dwarves, Dwarves who like Druidry for some reason, Dwarves who inexplicably swim... Lot of options, even before taking class into consideration. Here's a nifty list of different types of Dwarf. (Note that this is copied from a guide to the Ironsoul Forgemaster, so just ignore those references.)


Aleithian Dwarf (Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030926a)): Con bonus is useful, Int bonus is helpful for low skill scores, and it gains psionics, although they're 3.0, so you'll have to talk to your DM. Also, light sensitivity is annoying. Aquatic Dwarf (UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#aquaticDwarves)): Bonuses to Con and Str are useful, penalty to Dex is a bit of a pain, penalty to Cha is negligible. Swim speed is useful if you're in an aquatic campaign. Arctic Dwarf (UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#arcticDwarves)): Stats same as Aquatic Dwarf, bonuses when dealing with ice, replaces Orc enemy with Kobold enemy. Yawn. Badlands Dwarf (Sandstorm): Typical bonus to Con, penalty to Charisma. Yawn. Changeling (RoE):Wait, what? A Changeling isn't a Dwarf! Aha, but take a peek at the Racial Emulation feat. When a Changeling with this feat uses his Minor Shapechange ability, he counts as a member of the race he emulates. In other words, he can change into a Dwarf and count as a Dwarf. Note that this hurts the fluff of the class a lot, but may be useful from a min-maxing perspective. Dark Dwarf (DCS): Same Con bonus, but greater Cha penalty, and light sensitivity. I'm gonna say no on this one. Deep Dwarf (MM (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm#deepDwarf)): Increase on racial saves and darkvision, plus light sensitivity. Hmm, no. Desert Dwarf (UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertDwarves)) Swaps out the Cha penalty for a Con penalty. Cha is a dump stat for Ironsoul Forgemasters; Dex is not a dump stat for a melee. No. Dream Dwarf (RoS): Trades the Cha penalty for a Dex penalty, which as I've said isn't great, but if you absolutely need Cha for something... well, you have Gold Dwarf. Dream dwarves have Druid as favored class, which is fine if you wanna be all "MWAWR! IMMA DIRE BADGER! MWAWR!", but not so great for Ironsoul Forgemaster. Also, you trade your racial skill bonuses for some meaningless divination perks. Dream Sight is a very rare and unique ability to see into the ethereal plane, but... yeah, no. Duergar (Lots of Places (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm#duergar)): Really? You want to take an LA? Fine. For +1 LA, you take a heavier Cha penalty, but get better darkvision, various immunities and SLAs. You lose weapon famliarity and you gain light sensitivity. Kind of a rubbish trade-off, if you ask me. Which you did, since you're reading my handbook. You're also probably Evil, which kind of precludes you from this prestige class. Duergar, Lesser (PGtF, MM): Okay. So no LA, you still take the Cha hit, and you get some SLAs. Still, you're Duergar, which kind of precludes you from a lot of adventuring parties. Think about it. Duergar, Psionic (You Know Where (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/duergarPsionic.htm)): Okay. So we're back to the LA, only now instead of SLAs we have PLAs. Note that PLAs augment up to manifester level, Expansion in particular can be augmented in various ways, and you can take feats to increase their usage. Admittedly, they're useful, but this isn't quite the class for psionics, unless you intend to dip Soul Manifester (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a). Note, however, that this build is likely to be more Wis- than Int-friendly, so Int-based Psionics (Psion) won't be as helpful as Wis-based Psionics (Ardent, PsiWar). Durzagon (MM II): It's an Outsider (Evil, Lawful) that's the spawn of a Duergar and a Devil. Non-native. Ignoring the Drizz't-esque "My entire race is Evil but I've overcome that" antics needed to enter a non-Evil class, it's also got a +7 adjustment (5 RHD and +2 LA). This was changed to +8 adjustment (with +3 LA) in the update document (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a), which is even worse. Oh, and it has light sensitivity. You get some nifty natural weapons, which you likely won't use because you're going to manufacture yours, and some SLAs. Oh, and it's not technically a Dwarf, although I guess you can work that out with your DM. But do I need to explain why this is bad? Earth Dwarf (UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthDwarves)): How do you out-dwarf a dwarf? By doubling all that dwarfiness! Double the racial skill bonuses and double the stability bonus! Also gets Str +2 for Dex -2, which might be worth it for a heavily-armored beatstick. Only now there's some racial hatred thing for creatures with the [air] subtype... because... yeah... an underground race with ancestors from an elemental plane that has almost no breathable air whatsoever... would totally have an axe to grind with creatures that have the [air] subtype... sure, that makes sense. If you're doing the Crafty thing, then earth dwarves are a notch above standard dwarves. Geeze, how many more of these do we have? The heck with it, I'm skipping them unless they're something unusual. Fireblood Dwarf (DM): This is something unusual. It gets your typical bonus to Con, penalty to Cha. But it adds some nice things. It gains fire resistance and a dodge AC bonus against Dragons, although it loses the dodge bonus against giants. But the big thing is that it has the Dragonblood subtype, which qualifies it for anything Dragon-related, including various feats, classes, and Draconic Soulmelds (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4). Frost Dwarf (PlH): Not to be confused with Arctic. So apparently Duergar weren't "metal" enough, we got evil dwarves that are so hardcore, they're from the Abyss. I have this urge to put umlauts all over these guys. Bigger Con bonus, bigger Cha penalty, cold resistance 10, and a couple SLAs (chill touch for proving their Necromancy chops and obscuring mist obviously for the Stonehenge set piece). For LA +1, not worth it. Glacier Dwarf (Frostburn): Swaps most of their racial bonuses for ice-based racial bonuses. They also get Cold Tolerant, which counts as if they had taken the Cold Endurance feat, which lets them take Improved Cold Endurance, which might be useful if you weren't already getting resistance to all energy types from Ironsoul Forgemaster. So no need to bother with this subrace unless you've got some kinda Adele Dazeem fetish you need to work out. Gold Dwarf (RoF): Trades the usual Cha penalty for a Dex penalty, which as I've said is bad. Trades the attack bonus against orcs for a bonus against aberrations, which is okay. But the big draw is that it qualifies you for the Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith racial feat. This feat gives you a bonus to CL when casting a spell that buffs a weapon, and gives you a 5% discount in gold cost when crafting a magic weapon. It's a nice little bonus, particularly if you decide to dip a caster class. Hill Dwarf (PHB (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#dwarves)): This is a Dwarf. The standard. Nothing more to say, really. Jungle Dwarf (UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#jungleDwarves)): "If you got the money, honey, we got your disease." Downgrades darkvision to low-light and trades stone/metal based abilities for a +2 racial bonus to Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Spot, and Survival. Other than that, not much different from a standard dwarf, except they get Ranger as a Favored Class, which may be useful if you need to dip Ranger for something and need to avoid multiclass penalties. Maeluth (FF): This is red for three reasons. First, it's not technically a Dwarf; it's an Outsider, not even a Native Outsider, and a generally LE one at that. By RAW, not a Dwarf, although I'd be willing to fudge that as a DM. Ask yours. Second, it has a +1 LA, which is ungood, and its stats as a PC are not cleanly outlined in the book. And third, its features are sub-par; it has the usual Dwarf bonus against orcs, spells, poisons and giants; the usual stonecunning, darkvision and craft bonuses. It also gets a once-per-day Unholy effect on a melee weapon. Really, unless you want Outsider cheese, that Unholy trick is the only advantage this race offers. Pass. Midgard Dwarf (Frostburn): LA +4 hurts a lot, and on that basis alone I would discourage this race. That said, they do get several craft feats and skill bonuses (a bit redundant), plus an alternate form, the Native Outsider type, and a once-per-year (!) curse. Pass. Seacliff Dwarf (Stormwrack): Trades racial attack bonus vs. goblinoids for "Strong Swimmer", a +2 racial bonus on swim checks and the ability to hold your breath longer. A swimming dwarf? SWIMMING? No. *REAL* dwarves sink to the bottom, walk to the edge, and then climb out. Shield Dwarf (RoF): Shield Dwarves get additional languages, which is rather dull. However, they also have access to the Shield Dwarf Warder feat, which is the equivalent of Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith, but for shields and armor.