Nine-level vestiges

[Extra Anchovies]

Has anyone taken the Binder vestiges, grouped them into nine levels instead of eight, and given Binders the same sort of progression as the wizard (i.e. gain a new level of vestiges every odd level)? If so, a link would be appreciated. If not, what would be the best way to go about this? My first thought would be to bump up all the vestiges of level 5+ up one (e.g. Orthos is 9th-level), then split the 4th-level vestiges into 4th and 5th (and maybe bring some of the now-7th, formerly-6th-level vestiges into 5th level), but it might not be that easy. What do you think?

I'm mostly doing this so the ToM vestiges are compatible with Radiance House's Occultist, since I'm really disappointed with most of the spirits in their Pact Magic Unbound series (or at least in volume 1; I can't find the vol 2 spirits online and don't have a copy myself).

[Venger]

Has anyone taken the Binder vestiges, grouped them into nine levels instead of eight, and given Binders the same sort of progression as the wizard (i.e. gain a new level of vestiges every odd level)? If so, a link would be appreciated. If not, what would be the best way to go about this? My first thought would be to bump up all the vestiges of level 5+ up one (e.g. Orthos is 9th-level), then split the 4th-level vestiges into 4th and 5th (and maybe bring some of the now-7th, formerly-6th-level vestiges into 5th level), but it might not be that easy. What do you think?

I'm mostly doing this so the ToM vestiges are compatible with Radiance House's Occultist, since I'm really disappointed with most of the spirits in their Pact Magic Unbound series (or at least in volume 1; I can't find the vol 2 spirits online and don't have a copy myself).

vestiges are broken into 8 levels instead of 9 because they're not as strong as other options you should be getting around that level (especially since everyone takes improved binding). orthos and ashardalon and company are just not pulling their weight by the time you get them, so pushing them back even further isn't going to help things much.

why don't you look at some of the epic vestiges and talk to your DM about scaling back some of the numbers if he disagrees with their appropriateness for a cr 17 character (spioler alert: he probably won't, they kind of suck)

[ShurikVch]

Actually, Dragon #363 have 9th level Vestiges. They are [Epic]

[Venger]

Actually, Dragon #363 have 9th level Vestiges. They are [Epic]

right, I meant the printed ones are broken into 8ths. yah, the epics are 9ths, but I don't think they need to be epic, they're not very powerful. you could probably port them to being 9ths with very minimal changes.

[Psyren]

(or at least in volume 1; I can't find the vol 2 spirits online and don't have a copy myself).

Vol. 1 and 2 spirits are both here (http://alharadnd.wikidot.com/occultist-spirits), and I think you'll like the volume 2 ones a lot more. (In particular, check out Forash, Marat, Al'kra, Cornelius Button, Elysium Choir, Circe's Runes, Jormungandr and Kaylos.) But the new Occultist currently in playtesting will have even better progression and revamped spirits so I would give that one another shot if you're still feeling disillusioned.

[Extra Anchovies]

Vol. 1 and 2 spirits are both here (http://alharadnd.wikidot.com/occultist-spirits), and I think you'll like the volume 2 ones a lot more. (In particular, check out Forash, Marat, Al'kra, Cornelius Button, Elysium Choir, Circe's Runes, Jormungandr and Kaylos.) But the new Occultist currently in playtesting will have even better progression and revamped spirits so I would give that one another shot if you're still feeling disillusioned.

Oooh, you mean they're working on making the class even better? Nice. I have no issue with the chassis, just with the (vol. 1) spirits. Their general designs (lore, cohesion of granted abilities, sign, influence) just doesn't measure up to those in ToM.

Thanks for the link to the vol. 2 spirits, though. I'll give them a look for sure.

[Psyren]

On the early vol. 1 spirits I'd agree that they're pretty lame, but both fluff- and crunch-wise I found the middle and later spirits (4th and up) to be far superior to ToM's offerings. Looking at the 4th level ToM vestiges for instance (Andras, Buer, Eurynome, and Tenebrous) only one of those is even interesting and none are particularly strong.