Antipaladin, Antihero

[Xuldarinar]

What motivations would be suitable for an antipaladin, that would allow one or even push one towards taking the role of an antihero? What patrons would be suitable for such an individual? Is there anything crunch wise that would support this, for instance if one had an antipaladin slaying evil creatures, any way to make their smite good not a waste of a class feature?

[Spore]

- Killing the good High Priest that provokes regular demonic attacks on the city?
- Slaying the good gold dragon that ignores the woes of the people around him because he fears that mortals become too dependant on him?
- Breach into the sanctum of a good deity, killing the guarding good outsider in order to pry open the cathedral's archives to reveal the evil deeds the neutral high priest did to reach his position of power?

There are many ways to use Smite Good most of which depend on the DM (and having a good backstory giving the DM excuses to bring up targets for it certainly helps). Personally I would use a Paladin Archetype that uses Smite Evil/Good for different things and boosts Touch of Corruption.

I would go for Sacred Servant (get domain spells and an appropriate ally, so you have two demonic minions now).

[Keltest]

your anti-paladin could be obsessed with punishing those he perceives as guilty. He doesn't necessarily care about good (or evil), but believes in the fundamental necessity of justice. In many cases, that can include intervening where established systems "failed", at least in his eyes. This will of course bring him into conflict with good characters and organizations at times.

[Xuldarinar]

Good ideas thus far.


-snip-
I would go for Sacred Servant (get domain spells and an appropriate ally, so you have two demonic minions now).

Lets see, flipped to antipaladin...

Less Smite Good uses, which is good because it isn't as useful. A domain is nice, but that leaves the question of what deity would be suitable for such a character, theme being important to this. Doesn't get a divine bond with a fiend, so no pet there, but they get one with their unholy symbol. Then, later, getting lesser planar ally as a 1/week spell-like ability, which advances to better forms of the spell.


How do you have two demonic minions? Unless of course you get two through planar ally.

[CockroachTeaParty]

You might be able to re-flavor a war priest to fill a similar role. You wouldn't have to worry about smite good in such a case, and there's plenty of solid divine-powered melee options. Even an inquisitor could pull it off, perhaps.

In the Pathfinder core setting, some of the evil deities are slightly less scary than others. Asmodeus is a popular choice; most of the non-evil deities 'tolerate' him as a necessary evil, and he has influence over an entire country.

Urgathoa can actually prove a relatively mild evil patron, especially if you focus more on her hedonism/gluttony aspect. Calistria could possibly sponsor anti-paladin types, likely focusing on revenge (that lends itself well to anti-heroism).

[Secret Wizard]

I once made an archetype for this. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/13uSQZ-dC4FGyUn9qf5YS2JH6C68uxf-cXN7akV6R5Fg/edit)

[Psyren]

For your last question, smite good functions on good-subtyped creatures regardless of their actual alignment. So a fallen angel/archon/agathion/azata who is even more evil than you are will be susceptible and could make a good antagonist for your antihero.

To avoid baby-eating evil, you probably need an antipaladin code, like Calistria's.



I would go for Sacred Servant (get domain spells and an appropriate ally, so you have two demonic minions now).

Can you even do this? I know they're an alternate class, but unlike the ninja and samurai, pretty much every class feature has a different name on the AP. So from a strict RAW standpoint none of the archetypes should work. Or did I miss something?


Calistria could possibly sponsor anti-paladin types, likely focusing on revenge (that lends itself well to anti-heroism).

She explicitly has an antipaladin order in fact.

[Xuldarinar]

For your last question, smite good functions on good-subtyped creatures regardless of their actual alignment. So a fallen angel/archon/agathion/azata who is even more evil than you are will be susceptible and could make a good antagonist for your antihero.


Thats a pretty good point. He could be put to use hunting down those who have fallen, though there of course needs to be an interesting approach to their code of conduct, or of course a differing code for such a role.





On the point of paladin archetypes for antipaladins, I think chosen one flipped to antipaladin would make for an interesting character theme.. even in the context of an antihero.


Edit:

Does an antipaladin's code specific to a deity, overwrite the antipaladin's code of conduct or is it in addition to it?

[Spore]

Asmodeus is a popular choice; most of the non-evil deities 'tolerate' him as a necessary evil, and he has influence over an entire country.

Actually I'd prefer Asmodeus having Hellknights or Inquisitors or anything that smites Chaos. I feel the general game plan and abilities don't fit Asmodeus (though I would love a more charisma-heavy play, you can see the devil's machinations as purely wisdom-driven; foresight in contracting).


How do you have two demonic minions? Unless of course you get two through planar ally.

I missed that you loose Fiendish Bond for it. My


Can you even do this? I know they're an alternate class, but unlike the ninja and samurai, pretty much every class feature has a different name on the AP. So from a strict RAW standpoint none of the archetypes should work. Or did I miss something?

I feel strongly that the differences are just cosmetic. The names are mainly themed like [insert demonic counterpart of feature here] and any and all features have their evil counterpart. If you go by the book, Antipaladin/Sacred Servant both modify Divine Bond, Aura of Resolve and Smite [Alignment]. But it could (and should) work.

[Yanisa]

I feel strongly that the differences are just cosmetic. The names are mainly themed like [insert demonic counterpart of feature here] and any and all features have their evil counterpart. If you go by the book, Antipaladin/Sacred Servant both modify Divine Bond, Aura of Resolve and Smite [Alignment]. But it could (and should) work.

Yet anti-paladins (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo---antipaladin-archetypes) get their own archetypes, unlike ninjas and samurai's. It's either because it's a popular class or because non of the excisting paladin archetypes work for them. Sadly non of the anti-paladin archetypes trades out smite good.

[Psyren]

Does an antipaladin's code specific to a deity, overwrite the antipaladin's code of conduct or is it in addition to it?

In addition. And the deity code is more of a guideline for that order rather than "you will fall if you don't do this." Remember that neither paladins nor antipaladins get their powers from a deity.



I feel strongly that the differences are just cosmetic. The names are mainly themed like [insert demonic counterpart of feature here] and any and all features have their evil counterpart. If you go by the book, Antipaladin/Sacred Servant both modify Divine Bond, Aura of Resolve and Smite [Alignment]. But it could (and should) work.

I have no problem with it either, but I don't think it's RAW is all I'm saying. I think a "Profane Servant" Antipaladin would be really cool; you could get a Nightmare to ride for instance.