View Full Version : NEED IDEAS: Feats for a 5th-level character

2007-04-22, 12:47 PM
I'm starting a planar character at 5th level, I have everything ironed out for him - backstory, level progression, personality, etc - but there's one thing I'm having trouble with: feat selection. He's a chaotic good human rogue 3/cleric 1/bard 1 (progressing in that order), and at 6th level will be taking the Ardent Dilettante prestige class (from the Planar Handbook) and following it through to level 10. His concept is essentially a thrillseeker/planar guide. His cleric level is based around the abstract concept of exploration rather than a specific deity, and his domains are Luck and Celerity, though I'm also open to suggestions for alternate domains.

I forget his exact attributes, but his highests scores are Int and Dex, followed by Wis and Cha. The exact numbers won't matter too much for feat prerequisite purposes, as my DM trusts me with a reasonable amount of adjustments during character creation (-x to one initially rolled score/+x to another, no starting scores above 18).

Ideally, I would like feat ideas that make him more helpful in combat, but any kind of suggestions would be appreciated. My original idea was to go with Weapon Finesse as his bonus feat and Combat Relexes as his 1st level feat so he could take Vexing Flanker at 3rd level (Combat Reflexes is a prerequisite), but I don't really see Combat Reflexes ever coming in handy for him so it seems like a waste of a perfectly good feat.

I would appreciate any sort of thoughtful insight into my predicament. I'm obviously not going for a ZOMG-Best-Build-Evar character or anything, just a well-rounded character who has a trick or two up his sleeve so he can hold his own in combat for at least a little while.

2007-04-22, 01:17 PM
Dodge is never bad, nor is weapon focus.

2007-04-22, 01:19 PM
Dodge is never bad, nor is weapon focus.

Sorry to disagree, but unless you need them for pre-reqs they're both kinda sucky.

I don't know anything about the PrC you're taking - what does it do? Knowing your abilities will help choose feats.

2007-04-22, 01:39 PM
The Ardent Dilettante gains spells per day/spells known in one previous spellcasting class for every AD level except 1st. Also, gains a bonus feat (any feat) at 4th, 7th, and 10th levels. Good Reflex save, BAB progresses at 1/2 level, d8 Hit Dice, all skills are considered class skills. Entry prerequisites are RIDICULOUSLY stringent, hence my character's ridiculous assortment of base classes.
At 1st level, gains the bardic lore ability and bonuses on listen, search, spot, and sense motive.
At 2nd level, can cast enthrall as a special ability once per day per two class levels.
At 3rd level, can cast good hope as a special ability once per day per three class levels.
At 4th level, can cast clairaudience/clairvoyance centered on a single target within 30 feet. Once this link is established, distance is not a factor but planar boundaries are.
At 5th level, gains the scent special quality.
At 6th level, automatically gains a Will save to identify any illusion.
At 8th level, when targetted by or in the area of a spell effect, can use next action to duplicate the casting of the spell (with original DC, caster level, etc).
At 9th level, gains blindsense 10 ft.
At 10th level, does not lose a level when raised or resurrected.

However, I'm not trying to plan too far into my character's future, I mostly just want help with those first three feats. I plan on taking Obscure Knowledge as his sixth level feat so he can gain a +4 bonus on Lore checks, since this fits the character concept perfectly - he wants to see, learn, and experience as much as physically possible, and recount his adventures to others.

And, for the record, I fully support Weapon Focus as a helpful feat for just about anyone planning to get into combat. Dodge, however, I pretend doesn't exist, instead basically treating the Mobility feat as awesome enough to cost two feats to take. So I'll just assume Kel meant I should take Weapon Focus and Mobility as my three feats. :smallwink:

2007-04-22, 02:25 PM
I thought the Ardent Dilettante had a poor base attack bonus, not average. I think you'd be better off focusing on support instead of fighting yourself.

In any case, are the rogue levels really necessary? I think it would be easier to go with Bard 2/Cleric 3 in that order, or start with bard, take three levels of cleric, then another level of bard. Unless you're also going to be the trap monkey for the party (if you are, Rogue 1/Cleric 2/Bard 2 or Rogue/Cleric 3/Bard 1 makes more sense to me), taking bard seems like it should be good enough.

2007-04-22, 02:42 PM
He needs the rogue levels to have enough skill points to meet the class requirements, and continue to do so.

For domains, why not go with travel?

Also, I found Spontaneous Wounder/Inflicter from CD is good for clerics, as it gives more spell versitility after your spells are prepared.

If your CHA is good, I'd check out the divine feats in CD, CW and PHBII since your low cleric level and the fact that your on the planes would make turning undead far less useful. Divine Spell Power will help with the high risk of coming up against spell resistance.

For a low bard level, I recommend taking extra music simply to be able to make better use of your inspire courage.

Improved Feint is great for a rogue who has ranks in bluff. Every time it works, you do sneak attack damage.

If you have the ranks in perform, some bardic music feats can make you far better at buffing than you would be with your lower cleric and bard levels.

2007-04-22, 02:49 PM
Wouldn't Travel be more appropriate than Luck or Celerity? Unless it's part of the AD's esoteric prerequisites.

2007-04-22, 04:31 PM
So you'll be advancing your cleric casting I presume, rather than bard?

2007-04-22, 05:53 PM
Yeah, I thought Luck and Travel would be cooler as well, rather than Celerity. More matching to your fluff, and the spells in Travel are really good. Longstrider, dimdoor, teleport, etc...

Um... featwise, dodge and weapon focus are probably the worst two that could have been mentioned...except maybe ironwill or toughness.
Are you going to be in melee alot, or focusing on your spellcasting, or...?

2007-04-22, 09:47 PM
--->Reminder that Finesse is no good for you at lvl1, as the +1 BAB req can't be met by any of your 3 chosen classes. I would skip the idea of combat viability unless you can get the DM to agree to fractional BAB progression, since your BAB will be at wizard levels.

For feats, I'd recommend a Practiced Spellcaster for whichever class you'll be advancing in your PRC. Unfortunately, I don't think you can do that with your stated progression (but you could if you take Cleric or Bard at 3rd level instead of heading straight to Rogue 3.) Find a Divine Feat so you get some use out of the turning attempts (I think there's one that increases move speed, which could mesh well with your theme.)

--->Good luck w/ it either way.

2007-04-22, 10:31 PM
well, with 2 levels in bard (Inspirational boost, L1 spell, +1 to Inspire Courage) and the Song of the Heart feat from Ebberon (+1 to all music bonuses), you can sneak by with +3/+3 from your inspire courage. That's not a bad bonus for a small level dip.

2007-04-23, 12:00 AM
One thing I should have mentioned initially is that my DM allows us to "save" feats until we meet prerequisites at later levels. For instance, waiting until level 4 or 5 to take the feat I earned at level 3. That said, addressing some other suggestions/questions:

I mainly took the three levels in rogue rather than breaking things up differently because I wanted the 2d6 sneak attack bonus and the evasion. I was trying to squeeze the most (and most useful) different class abilities out of my 5 levels as possible.

Divine feats are actually a great idea, I'll have to look into some of them since it's somewhat doubtful he'll be using his turn undead ability very often.

I completely forgot Weapon Finesse has a +1 BAB prereq, probably because it's completely ridiculous that a feat made to help out low Str/low BAB characters would have BAB as a prerequisite.

As for the domains, Travel is obviously a much better choice than Celerity. I just forgot there was a Travel domain... :smallredface:

Practiced Spellcaster was another feat I considered initially (for cleric spells, as this is the class I plan to exclusively improve in spell ability), but I eventually started drifting towards combat-type feats because of the way my DM awards experience. He divides the encounter XP equally to anyone who participates in battle, but gives small amounts of bonus XP for each significant action a character takes - casting spells, felling foes, significant maneuvers, etc. While he tries to be fair to everyone, no matter how many tide-turning buffs or skillful tactical maneuvers are employed, the most XP always seems to go to whoever deals the most damage and kills the most and strongest bad guys. :smallfrown:

2007-04-23, 12:16 AM
Why does Dodge get such a bad rap? Granted, it's very much a diminishing-return feat as the character progresses, but in the early levels it can be quite useful. *shrug* Perhaps some sort of homebrew ruling which permitted you to up the AC bonus for every five levels you've had it, or something. I'm sure there's such a thing out there somewhere.

brian c
2007-04-23, 01:13 AM
Why does Dodge get such a bad rap? Granted, it's very much a diminishing-return feat as the character progresses, but in the early levels it can be quite useful. *shrug* Perhaps some sort of homebrew ruling which permitted you to up the AC bonus for every five levels you've had it, or something. I'm sure there's such a thing out there somewhere.

Fax Celestis' perfecting feats? System adapted for a lot of different feats, so that they would improve with character level.

2007-04-23, 02:24 PM
Why does Dodge get such a bad rap? Granted, it's very much a diminishing-return feat as the character progresses, but in the early levels it can be quite useful. *shrug* Perhaps some sort of homebrew ruling which permitted you to up the AC bonus for every five levels you've had it, or something. I'm sure there's such a thing out there somewhere.
Dodge and Weapon Focus and such Feats are great at Levels 1-3, but after that people start to regret taking them. The kinds of builds that turn up here, tend to be 1-10, so they get a bad rap from a 'long term planning' perspective. The Retraining Rules in the Player's Handbook 2 go a long way towards solving this problem, but not everybody uses them.
As Brian C, indicates, the current trend in game design for D&D is towards finding a way to make Feats not Feats, Sub Feats or Tome of Battle Manoeuvres. It's the problem with a levelling system that contains a Feat system directly related to it, and which has Feats of questionable value alongside others.
Formalising the interface is the problem. Feats and Skill Points need to have some autonomy from the levelling system (ala (A)D&D Character Points), but that creates its own potential problems.